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Comments
Paul H.
-mike
They rated the VW Passat GLX, the Toyota Highlander, the VDC, and the Buick Rendezvous.
The cars finished in the order I have listed them in.
Their gripes on the VDC are as follows:
Needs premium fuel.
The transmission isn't "smooth".
The zig-zag shift gate is awkward.
Brake pedal feels too soft.
Rear entry is tight.
The driver seat controls are hard to use with the door closed.
The fan is noisy on the climate control, and the rear seat ducts don't provide much warm air.
They really didn't like the controls on the audio system, although they said the sound quality was very good.
The interior isn't richly trimmed enough for such an expensive car,
Reliability was rated average. The Passat was rated the same, the Highlander above average (probably due to Toyotas other vehicles).
Any comments?
Passat does have a smoother transmission.
I find the shift gate on the VDC awkward.
I haven't noticed any big diff in the controls for the drivers seat.
The controls on the McIntosh are bizzare.
Can't speak for the heater, the AC seemed ok in both.
The fit and finish is tigher, better thought out and has much more style in the Passat.
I'll take subaru reliability over VW any day.
The Sub exceeds the VW in areas like ride comfort, seating comfort (especially the back), useful cargo space, Visibility, versatility and long term duribility. Many who have driven the Passat more than 2 years says that it develops squeeks and rattles.
Of course the big score for Subaru vs Passat 4 motion is
A) Price (3K+ less)
Passat is a good car though.
Granted, different vehicles, aimed at different audiences; but the WRX almost always gets rave reviews, while the VDC almost always gets ho-hum reviews. So, CR is not alone here in its perception of the VDC.
Bob
-mike
The Mac would not look like a Mac if it wasn't laid out the way it is. I think "very good" is an understatement.
The seat controls may be squeezed into a tight space, but are extremely intuitive in their function.
The notion of "not being as luxurious" as expected, was dumb, I thought. What do they really mean by that? What did they have in mind? IMHO, that's just more stuff to start rattling sooner.
We've used mostly Regular, so was miffed by the ding for that. The Passat "requires" premium.
Theo in Colorado
Personally I hate the whole MSRP/haggle kind of thing. I like the Saturn Sales model of the sticker price is the price. But that gives them less flexibility in cleaning out inventory and responding to changing economic condtions. If your cars are over priced you have to have a "Sale" to clean them out. Have enough "Sales" and people will start waiting for them instead of buying now even when they are fairly priced. Also from what I understand no-haggle places tend to push extra's and rook you bad on your trade in (course all dealers do that come to think of it).
I agree on deficiencies in the auto transmission, and on the look and feel of the interior, but both are minor issues to me but significant to CU. CU downgrades the audio because of the controls; I upgrade it because of the sound quality, which is not important to CU. Likewise, CU does not do any performance tests between the stability control systems, not important to them but very important to me.
Concerning reliability, CU makes all their reliability predictions from the annual survey to subscribers. They measure everything on a year to year basis; the average reliability number they quote are for one year old cars. Indeed Passats and Legacy's have average reliability during their first year. The Legacy, however, has much better than average reliability for the next 8 years, whereas, every VW model degrades severely over time. To me, that is deceiving to readers that are unfamiliar with their approach.
The bottom line to me is that the article was fair to the VDC from the focused perspective of CU. I disagree with their glowing praise for the Passat, which has been their darling for several years. I think it is a nice practical car, but has no shining features or personality like the VDC. I predict that in a few years, the VDC will be on the CU preferred used cars, but not the Passat.
Just my opinion,
Mike
- No problems except for brake squeeking on morning startup.
- After initial disappointment in engine/tranny performance (aka hesitation), everything is now great. Don't know whether it was break-in or me learning the car. I did switch out the transmission fluid to synthetic; will do the engine at about 10k miles.
- Handling, ride, and quietness are still excellent.
- Love the stereo. Have made a demo CD that really shows it's stuff. (Maybe, I should send it to CU)
- Have averaged about 22.5 mpg for my normal driving; 27 on trips.
- Best of all: Wife loves it; much more than prior Volvo turbowagon.
The bottom line: I would definitely buy it again.
Mike
1.
SUBARU is the only company whose every model is recommended by CR not even honda/toyota.
2.
go to consumerreports.org, under autohub.....they have ranked reliablitity by make.....
subaru is ahead of VW,
honda had a high variance than subaru........
subaru is WAYYYYYYYY ahead of Audi.....
it is funny that subaru is often compared with audi & audi is ranked ahead....look at their reliability ratings & it costs 10k more than a subie.
3. fully agreed with mikeny........consumer reports always looks from value standpoint. But we all know that vdc is kinda overpriced unlike wrx......if it had been in the 27k with fewer features.....it would have been a killer value like wrx....
4.
Subaru is still a strong winner......one european magazine quoted that VDC is so unbelievably skid proof that they could never fool the system.
5.
I would buy subaru any day instead of vw/audi..
6.
CR has been in love with Passat lately....wait till its reliability ratings drop. see its latest used car report. VW jetta is in the list to avoided. Every subaru model was named as best bet.
7.
from day CR has been prejudiced against the outback.....i felt strange....
I think it has to do with style and image. The Passat looks cool, therefore when people are in it they feel cool. The subaru styling is ok but nothing exceptional (from the general populations standpoint) and the brand image is odd, quirky, different. Different is bad, people don't want different (except the rebel population of the US, but the different stuff they like has to be cool as well). So when they are in the Subaru even though it really doesn't look bad, handles well, has great reliability etc it doesn't make them feel hip. Therefore they don't have as strong a feeling about the car.
So when it comes down to it the raters are either conciously or subconciously swayed by their feelings for the car regardless of objective criteria.
I have seen magazines complain about Subaru on several things......but they don't with other brands having the same problem......
1. They complained about horn switches on the steering......finding them hard to use in emergency.....accord has the same for about 10 yrs nobody complained about it.
2. Complaint about Outback gear [non-permissible content removed].....audi/vw has the same type ? why not complain about those ?
3. OB h4 power. A lot of magazines gripe about it. Honda accord takes 10.5 sec for 0-60....noone complains about it.
4. VW/Audi's reliability ratings are horrible esp. when u compare how much more you pay for it...no one complains about it.....strange world......
5.
Atleast, all magazines like WRX. I have a feeling that ST-X will be another major hit...
Mike/mikenk, thanks for the thoughtful post. Per your profile, you're interested in home theater. If you've not heard of it, AVSforum is a HT forum. I lurk in Home Theater Computers. FWIW a compendium of posts is in a Meta FAQ; start with "What is an HTPC?". Apologies for the OT digression.
..Mike in MD
..Mike
But I came to realize, like mikenk, that they have a perspective of the "average" consumer which did not coincide with what I looked for. Horn buttons are an example, I noticed (about 5 yrs ago when I cancelled my sub) that they would provide a paragraph on the placement of the horn buttons and always knock down a car if it didn't have a big active area in the center of the wheel. Now, I acknowledge their position that in an emergency the horn might be found sooner with a center button, but CU placed too high a value on what I considered an unimportant point and "squandered" a large portion of their steadily shrinking written descriptions on it.
Also noticed how the summary ratings did not always reflect the detail results, and some cars received written downgrades on features (for example shift gates) that others didn't.
Just my view.
I'd be real interested in the play list that is on your Demo CD. Wondering if it includes classical piano at about 95dB. It seems that my passenger door speaker grill resonates with certain keys on the piano when the volume knob is at about 75-80% of max when playing the "Horowitz at Home" CD. That's been my biggest gripe to date. Apparently there's a key on the piano whose fundamental frequency is the same as the speaker grill on the passenger side, and thus at high volumns it resonates.
Theo in Colorado
Greg
Mike in MD: I upgraded my HT setup to HDTV earlier this year and visited the AVS forum a lot. I don't lurk there much now; I get too depressed as to how much more is out there. I really haven't gotten into HTPC; sounds interesting though.
Mike in Texas
-mike
Bob
Their wholesale price was $1400 or so cheaper than the Passat, and they didn't even mention the much cheaper LL Bean model, which compared more closely to the Passat anyway.
Then toss in a quicker 0-60 number plus 10% better fuel mileage, even a bigger difference in range because of the bigger gas tank.
The Passat sits a couple of inches lower to the ground, but their tests do not take them into situations where the OB's extra clearance means anything.
IMO it's remarkable that the VDC came so close on smooth pavement, and even won in several ways.
-juice
I agree with you. CU's judgments have always been heavily subjective on the way they perceive things. For some reason, the Passat has really been their favorite for years in sedans, over the much more reliable Camrys and Accords; obviously Passat's best features fit high on their weighting list.
I was personally amazed at the projected reliability ratings as being the same between the passat and Outback. Using CU's own data, there is no way that you could come to that conclusion.
I feel that CU's raters really wanted the Passat on top for whatever reasons and their subjective approach allowed them to do that. But, again, I really didn't have problems with the articles, just their final recommendations, but that happens a lot between me and CU.
Mike
VW beefed up their B2B warranty, so maybe they are less concerned now? The 4 cylinders were a little better than average, but V6s were actually about 15% worse than average. That still fall with what they call "average" reliability because it ranges from -20% to +20%.
-juice
-juice
Nope. Soobs have longitudinal boxer engines, AWD, and fully indy suspensions.
I hope we never see that in the USA.
-juice
premium fuel. In other cars I have owned,
using lesser octane fuel caused pinging. What grade are you all using? does it affect performance? How about MPG?
DB
Much better vehicle than I thought it would be. Excellent acceraltion. Quiet ride. Much utility in the design. Handled well. A bit small.
We would probably put this wagon high on our list (which presently consists of this car, Volvo XC, Jag X, and VW Passat). However, one thing will disqualify this car for me -- fake wood trim. There isn't even an option to delete it. Too bad.
"Unleaded Gasoline Only, Premium recommended"
We've been running 85 octane (Colorado oxy-fuels) since last March at Subaru's suggestions (cold start issue). We've gotten up to 27 MPG on it. Still performs quite well.
FWIW,
Theo in Colorado
You may even be able to find a Legacy L or Outback owner that wants wood trim and arrange a swap, which would make it free.
If you're not handy, ask a dealer what they would charge to do this for you. It could be done entirely with OE parts, too.
-juice
-juice
Where did you hear that the dash was really wood? Mine sure looks like plastic. I will admit that after 5000 miles, that is the only thing I really don't like, but over all it is a great car. I would like to think it is real wood though, even though it would look the same.
BTW, I really like the wood steering wheel; I think it looks good and it feels great.
Mike
I think the wood steering wheel is a subjective thing. However, to me, it seems like it would be a safety concern.
After 10,600 miles and 7 months of owning an LLBean, my wife and I are thinking about getting the new 6cyl. Outback Sedan to replace a 96 Honda Accord.
Subaru and its AWD has hooked us.
Sounds funny saying this, but one of the best things about the LLBean is the design of the wood & leather steering wheel.
It "fits like a glove". The thickness, the curves at 10:00 and 2:00 to fill your palms, the smooth wood at the top and bottom, and gripping leather at the sides...all add up to an excellent ergonomic design.
And think about it - the steering wheel is one of the most important parts (design-wise) in your car - that's where your body, senses, reaction times, etc. connect with the car.
Give it another test drive on a twisting, wet, and snowy road, and you'll see (or feel) what I mean!
Hey, Subaru should pay me for this!
I'd consider one for the wife if it only had a manual trans.
-juice
I am going to pick up my vdc tomorrow night around 80 miles from home, and want to bring the Dead along with me for the ride back. I have been burning copies of stuff for car use, so i don't scratch up my originals.
And one more thing---I CAN'T WAIT TO GO GET MY VDC!!!!!!!!!
THANKS.
Dukephoto in West By God Virginia
I hope you will enjoy the car as much as I am.
Mike
Took a whole 15 minutes to get an answer to my question.
thanks.
CDR's are no problem. CDRW I tried was not read by the Mac.
If you think the board is fast, join us for the Thursday chat.
Keith
Bob
-mike