Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

azauto · October 2000

Is it possible that I can get copies of past Edmund's rebate listings?

staceyr1 · October 2000

I have already talked and negotiated some numbers on a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo,LS ,but we are stuck now because we were told that if we took advantage of the dealer incentive that we would not be able to get the special interest rate of 3.9% Is this true.

im_brentwood · October 2000

Generally this is true.

Quite often you can get the rebate OR the special financing.

I'd run the numbers and see what makes more sense to you. If you do take the 3.9%, unless the finance company requires it (Volvo used to require 40% Down for their 0% apr) I'd finance everything you can at that rate, and put your down payment in a CD or mutual fund or something...

Bill

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2000

Stacey, both Bill and the person who you spoke with at the Isuzu dealership are correct. Isuzu will not allow any Consumer or Dealer Cash incentives to be combined with their special financing program at this point.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

coffeebiz · October 2000

I will be puchasing a 2001 4Runner this weekend and I just saw the $400 incentive on Edmunds' website. Do I use this figure to subtract from my offer to the dealer? How can I be sure that the dealer I'm going to is participating in this incentive program or is it safe to assume that it affects all Toyota dealers on a national basis?

Also, is it true that Toyota has no holdbacks on their 2001 vehicles? I noticed that when I was looking at the information on the 2001 4Runner.

I live in Florida, if that affects the answer(s) to my questions.

Thanks in advance.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2000

Hi coffeebiz. I am not sure where the Toyota Dealer Cash information that is listed in the National Incentives Programs section of this site came from, but Toyota does not have one national incentives program. In fact, Toyota could have as many as 10 different programs in effect on the 4Runner at any given time depending upon which region of the country you are in. Perhaps the $400 Dealer Incentive that is listed is some sort of national average of the programs that they currently have available. If this program is in effect in your area, then you should definitely take it into account when you make your offer for the truck that you are interested in. Dealers are not obligated to share dealer cash allowances with consumers, but they will frequently dip into them in order to make deals.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

coffeebiz · October 2000

Car_Man:
Thank you for your quick response. One last question, how would I be able to find out if this incentive is in effect in my region?

Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2000

That is a very good question, coffeebiz. In the past, the regional incentives section of this site included all of the programs that were going on in Toyota's various regions. For some reason that information is not available there this month. Perhaps you could send an e-mail to manager@edmunds.com to see why it isn't and to see if they would possibly be able to shed a little more light on what's going on in Toyota's Southeast region.

Car_man
Co-Host Smart Shoppers / FWI

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2000

Hi fgaona. Although Nissan does not have any sort of consumer or dealer cash available on the 2001 Nissan Maxima for the month of November, from time to time they have been known to run short-term enhancements to their normal incentives programs during holiday weekends. As you are aware this is Veterans Day weekend, so it is very possible that Nissan has some sort of special incentives going on from the 10th to the 12th.

As far as the price that you were quoted on this car goes, I would say that it looks to me as though it is a pretty good deal.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

cb750k · November 2000

Anyone had experience in working with a dealer that acknowledges a $2,000 factory to dealer incentive is in place for yr2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee?

jim225 · November 2000

I recently negotiated a price with my local Jeep dealer for a 2001 Grand Cherokee. The car I wanted was not available so it is currently on order. The price of the car will be honored by the dealer if dealer rebates (currently $1000) do not decrease by the time of delivery. I was wondering if the dealers rebates increase whether it would be "ethical" to renegotiate the price down. I would sure appreciate any comments you have. Thanks!

Jim

shoppingvw · November 2000

Hello! a quick question. Could you define the term floorplan interest reserve for me? We've agreed to a good price, but now the invoice has an additional charge of floorplan interest reserve for 92.00 and port prep for 25.00--in addition to the destination charge. Any ideas? Thanks!

KCRam · November 2000

Hi shoppingvw

The floorplan fee has to do with the costs involved for keeping the car in stock. Dealers do in fact have to pay interest and insurance on a car in their possession until it's sold. This appears to be a set minimum by the manufacturer so that they receive some money on every car delivered to a dealership. Port prep is usually applied to a car that is coming from Europe or Asia, and is to offset the cost of "unpacking" the vehicle from the boat that delivered it.

Hope that helps

kcram
Co-Host - Smart Shopper & FWI Conferences
edmunds.com Town Hall

patsyrat · November 2000

Hi Car_Man,

I went to a Ford dealer today to purchase a Ford Focus, and in our negotiating we got into the issue of the holdback. They told me that THEY would not get the 2% holdback (if they had to get the car I wanted from another dealer)... that this OTHER dealer would get it instead. Does that make any sense? Is it because the car is coming off the "other guy's" lot?

vwguild · November 2000

The holdback stays with each dealer...your dealer
keeps the holdback on the car he trades to the other dealer to get your car...in turn, that
dealer keeps the holdback on the car he sends to
your dealer. At least, that is how it is done in Calif.

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2000

Patsyrat, I think that this may vary somewhat depending upon the vehicle's manufacturer. However, in most instances vwguild is correct. Dealers keep the holdback on vehicles that are delivered to them from the factory reguardless of whether or not they swap them. Even if this is the case, the dealer that you are working with will likely have to trade some vehicle that they will ultimately receive the holdback on to another dealership to get the Focus that you want. So it probably would be close to a wash as far as the holdbacks are concerned. Still, very few dealerships will ever dip into their dealer holdback to make a deal. In fact, mentioning it when haggling over the price with someone at a dealership usually only annoys them and serves to break down negotiations. I suggest that you pay a visit to the Town Hall Hatchbacks Conference to speak with other Focus owners and shoppers to see what prices they have paid for similar cars. Then take a look to see what Edmunds.com has calculated the True Market Value of this vehicle to be. This should give you a good idea of the market price for the Focus that you want. Then use this figure to negotiate deals with a few different dealerships. By doing some market price research and comparison shopping you should be able to get a good price on this car without ever having to mention the holdback. Good luck.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

wlittlej · November 2000

Hello Car_Man,
I am shopping for the above SUV's here in the Knoxville, TN area. Do you have any updated info on rebates, interest, and incentives that aren't on the main site yet?
Thanks,
wlittlej

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2000

Hi wlittlej. At the end of October, DaimlerChrysler revised its incentives program on the 2000 and 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee. They now have $2,000 - $2,500 consumer cash on 2000 model year Grand Cherokees depending upon the exact trim level that you are interested in. In lieu of this consumer cash there is 0.9% financing for up to 60 months or $3,500 - $4,400 lease cash on 2000 models. The 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee does not have any consumer cash available on it, but there is $1,000 dealer cash or $2,750 lease cash or 0.9% - 4.9% special financing.

In your area of the country, Ford currently has $1,500 consumer cash that may be combined with 0.9% - 5.9% financing or 0.9% financing for up to 60 months on the 2000 Explorer. In addition to these incentives there is $750 dealer cash on 2000s. On 2001 models, Ford currently has $1,500 consumer cash, $1,000 of which may be combined with 5.9% - 7.9% special financing or 2.9% - 5.9% stand-alone financing.

I think that this should answer all of your questions, but if you think of anything else please don't hesitate to ask.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

gradmac99 · November 2000

On the Edmunds.com site, I've searched under the Regional Incentives, Rebates and Leasing section for Georgia and found that there are 0% APR incentives on various 2001 Mazda Tributes. I have asked a couple of Mazda dealers about this, but they don't seem to know anything about any special 0% APR incentives on the Tribute? Why would the dealers not have this information? Is the information still valid? Please provide additional information on these regional APR incentvies for the 2001 Mazda Tribute.

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2000

Hi gradmac99. Unlike cash incentives that dealerships can pocket, there really is not any reason for a dealership to withhold information from consumers on manufacturers' special financing programs. In fact, most dealerships really want consumers to know about special financing programs. If a dealer says that there is not any supported financing on a particular vehicle, there is a very good chance that there isn't. According to the National Incentives Programs section of Edmunds.com Mazda does not currently have any special APR programs on the Tribute. I have found that the National Incentives section usually provides a much more accurate picture of what is actually happening with a given manufacturer's incentives than the Regional Section of this site does. When in doubt, I consult the National Section. To the best of my knowledge, Mazda has never offered any special financing on the new Tribute. I have a feeling that there is not 0.0% available on this truck right now.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

wlittlej · November 2000

Hi Car_man,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I am getting inconsistent and confusing info from the local dealers. Could this be intentional? Anyway, I now go into the fray with yet another Edmunds.com arrow in my quiver.

Thanks,
Will
wlittlej

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2000

Will, yes there is a good chance that the people that you have been dealing with at your local dealerships have been intentionally vague or misleading in their statements to you about their manufacturers' current incentives programs. Although there are many reputable dealerships and salespeople out there, there are also many who will intentionally deceive consumers about cash inventives to make them think that they are getting more of a discount from their dealership than they might actually be receiving. Good luck with your shopping and please don't hesitate to ask if you think of any other questions. Happy Thanksgiving!

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

faciiiri · December 2000

Does anyone know whether Toyota or any company provides a dealer holdback on so-called "program" cars (that have been driven by a dealer for several months to a year)? It's difficult to calculate a "fair" or TMV price for these slightly used vehicles. Any suggestions would be helpful.

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2000

Hi Les. Isuzu's consumer and dealer cash incentives are only available on new vehicles. By reading your post, it sounds to me as though you are interested in purchasing a used Rodeo. If this is the case, then this truck would not be eligible for any new vehicle incentives.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

sysop · December 2000

tonychrys · December 2000

Why is it that Edmund's, Intellichoice, JD Power, and others all have DIFFERENT customer rebate and dealer incentive info? And none of the three above have the CORRECT info on many makes and models.

How often does Edmund's update their info?
Where do they get their info?
Do they check the accuracy of the info? How?

Some straight answers would be nice.

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2000

Hi Tony. The incentives information that is available here at Edmunds.com is usually very accurate. It is updated on a real-time basis, but of course there is a little lag time between when a program or a revision to an existing program is introduced and when it appears on this site because supplier of the data has to obtain official manufacturer bulletins that contain the information, interpret them, input them into their system, and then electronically send them over here to Edmunds.com. If there is a specific vehicle's incentive program that you have a questions about, I would be glad to discuss it with you.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

tonychrys · December 2000

Specifically, two points:

1. Info on the 2001 Nissan Pathfinder is/was non-existent. The only thing that FINALLY showed up was a $500 dealer incentive (even though the program has been in effect since 12/1). Nissan is actually running a customer $1000 back now according to radio ads. Edmunds has no info on this.

2. 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited: I get different amounts depending on which web site you goto (JD Power, etc.). Again, Edmunds seems to be lacking the most info. Any insights you can give on an ACCURATE amount would be great.

Thanks!

mbunting · December 2000

Do you happen to know where this is available?

When does it expire?

In about 10 days I'll be purchasing a PF in the Baltimore area (or I may be even buying in Canada) and would like to get this incentive.

Please contact me via email at: bunting44@hotmail.com or post here, of course!

Thanks for any help-

Mike

tonychrys · December 2000

I'll give you the info I have, but again, the frustration is that I had to piece it together on my own. Edmunds doesn't have the full story.

Until 1/02/01 you should be able to get $1000 off of a PF, but I'm pretty sure it's only a regional program for the states CT, MA, ME, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT.

I talked to a local dealer and he told me that as long as the order was placed before then and the car picked up within 7 days, I could wait until the last second. But with all the incentives DC is offering on the 2001 Jeep GCL, I can pick up a better loaded vehicle for about the same money.

Don't get me wrong, I think the PF is a fine vehicle, but there are certain luxury features on the GCL that I wish the PF offered. As I hit 40 (this April) I'm leaning more and more towards comfort .

Good Luck.

audia8q · December 2000

as a dealer we have a very difficult time keeping up with all the incentives, so im sympathetic to non-dealer sites getting rebates wrong...not that long ago it was simple, but now there are so many angles and "if's" to incentives and then the regional incentives jump in....my dealership back in connecticut was on the boston/ny line which ment that 50% of our customers might get 1000 rebate and the other 50% might get $1500. all based upon their address.

The carmakers make the incentives very confusing so dealers and consumers miss them, thus saving the manufacturer millions.

Rich

tonychrys · December 2000

How do you think I feel as a consumer? The last thing I want to do is go into the dealer and hit him over the head with a "phantom" rebate that I picked up on a web site that didn't check their facts. I'm not looking to nickel-and-dime the dealer, I just want a fair deal. He has a family to feed just like me, and doesn't need some know-it-all like me trying to shove false pricing information down his throat.

At the same time, if so called consumer education sites, like Edmunds, misses a rebate then I as the consumer possibly left money on the table during the deal. There goes the value of the site. Also, with a given rebate in effect, I could have possibly gotten "more" car for the same dollar.

TC

mbunting · December 2000

Thanks for the information Tony. I appreciate it very much!

I think I have a dealer in Maryland (Tischer Nissan) that is willing to work with me on this incentive. He didn't say straight out that he would, but we are discussing it (via email) now.

I too have found it almost impossible to stay updated on these incentives. I really don't know who to blame though. It would be nice if the manufacturer (Nissan, Chrysler, etc.) updated their own web sites to include the current offers/incentives that they are offering. This would make things alot more easier IMO.

Again, thanks for the info Tony. Glad I could get it somewhere!

audia8q · December 2000

The best way to confirm the actual rebate / incentive is with the dealer and they can run your the latest vin # and zip code specific incentive and show you the print out...with Ford its called "VINCENT" and the printout didn't allow us any monkey business and it showed the incentives at that minute...always subject to change. I have seen rebates/incentives change 2 times in one week on the same car....its crazy.

Rich

84turboz · December 2000

This site lists a $3000 customer rebate and a
$1000 dealer incentive on Sable Duratec. Three
Georgia dealers say only $1500 rebate available.
Can you comment on this CarMan? Thanks!

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2000

You're welcome, Tony. Let's see if I can provide some insight on the incentives that are available on the 2001 Pathfinder and Jeep Grand Cherokee. At the time that it was published the information on this site that states that there is $500 Dealer Cash available on the 2001 Pathfinder was correct. However, recently (perhaps as recently as last weekend) Nissan enhanced its original December incentives programs on certain vehicles for the holidays by $500. Nissan's incentives are usually fairly static throughout the month, but from time to time (like President's Day for instance) they will introduce $500 enhancements mid-program. So basically, Nissan changed the $500 Dealer Cash that was available to Consumer Cash so that they could advertise it and then added the $500 holiday bonus cash for a total of $1,000 savings on this truck through the end of the year. Even though Nissan has a couple of different regions, normally their incentives programs are fairly standardized across them, unlike Ford Motor Company or Toyota which seem to have the most regional variation in their programs. I suspect that the 2001 Pathfinder's program is similar to what I mentioned earlier in most of the U.S.

As far as the 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited is concerned, DaimlerChrysler currently has 0.9% financing for up to 36 months, 3.9% for 37 to 48 months, and 4.9% for 49 to 60 months or $1,000 Retail Dealer Cash or $3,000 Lease Cash. Additionally, they recently enhanced the existing Owner Loyalty program on this truck to $2,000. These incentives amounts should be available in all parts of the country, except for in Detroit.

This should answer both of your questions, but if you think of any others please don't hesitate to ask.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2000

Hi 84turboz. Unfortunately, I think that the dealership that you spoke with is correct. Although there is $3,000 available on the 2000 Sable in many parts of the country, I believe that in Georgia there is currently $1,500 Consumer Cash or $1,000 and special financing as low as 0.9% or $1,500 Lease Cash available on 2000 Sables. As far as the dealer cash goes, it is difficult to say for certain if it is available in your area but if I had to guess I think that it is safe to say that there is probably some sort of dealer cash available on this car in most parts of the U.S. at this point.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

tonychrys · December 2000

Car_man, you said:
"As far as the 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited is concerned, DaimlerChrysler currently has... $1,000 Retail Dealer Cash or $3,000 Lease Cash... These incentives amounts should be available in all parts of the country, except for in Detroit."

This is just plain incomplete and wrong... I know because I can go to Carsdirect.com and purchase this vehicle for about $2000 below invoice.

When you go to JDPower.com, this is the info you get on the model:
-------------------
Dealer Incentive
Expires: 4/3/01
Incentive Amount: $2,000.
2001 Grand Cherokee Limited 4WD 4 Dr Sport Utility
-----------------

And then on JeepUnpaved.com you get this:
----------------
Grand Cherokee
U.S. cash allowance of $1,500 on 2001 models available through 4/3/01
-----------------

For a total of about $3500! And the dear incentive on JDPower has been posted for at least a few weeks, Edmunds has never picked up on it.

I still stand by my statement that the info on Edmunds.com is severely flawed unless you can prove otherwise.

TC

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2000

TC, I am sorry that you have found so many inconsistencies in the incentives information that is available on the Web. As a Town Hall Host, I am not personally responsible for updating the incentives data. Of course, it is next to impossible to immediately update all of the mid-program changes that manufacturers make to their programs, but I have found the incentives info that is available here to usually be very accurate (the national incentives section more so than the regional section). Please feel free to e-mail the editors here at Edmunds.com and let them know your feelings on the regional incentives section by using the following link: Contact Edmunds.com. Again I am sorry for any confusion that you may have experienced.

Car_Man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Co-Host

tonychrys · December 2000

I already sent an email to Edmunds. I'm curious as to how they'll address the inconsitencies.

Thanks for your time and patience with this dialog.

TC

gigi22 · January 2001

I'm interested in leasing a 2001 discovery SE under the 48 month lease incentive posted on Edmunds.com ($488/month,15,000 miles/year,$0 down,$480 acquision fee,48%residual). I've called several dealerships and have mentioned the incentive. Each dealership has asked me to provide them with additional information (such as whether the monthly lease payment includes sales tax?). Where can I get additional information on the land rover lease incentive? Your input would be appreciated.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2001

Hi gigi22. The sample lease payments that appear in the "National Lease Programs" section of the Edmunds.com Web site are usually manufacturers' nationally advertised specials that appear in major newspapers or on their Web sites. Although I am not as familiar with exactly how the regional incentives section of this site works, I believe that the sample lease payments that appear in that section are calculated using the manufacturers' captive finance company's lease money factors and some sort of residual values (perhaps those that are issued by a major national publication known as the Automotive Lease Guide or ALG for short). I have found that the sample payments that appear in the national section generally seem to be more accurate than those that appear in the regional section.

Last month I saw a nationally advertised lease on a 2001 Land Rover Discovery II SD for $399 per month with $1,995 down for 36 months and with 10,000 miles per year. Even though Land Rover's lease program just expired, I believe that their January program is almost identical to the one that they had in effect last month. So this payment should give you a good idea of what these trucks are leasing for right now.

If you would like, give me the full MSRP of the exact truck that you are interested in and the price that the dealerships that you have spoken with would be willing to sell it to you for and I would be glad to let you know what your approximate monthly lease payments should be.

Talk to you soon...

Car_Man
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gigi22 · January 2001

Hi Car Man. The full MSRP is $37,795 (java black SE with winter package). We talked about a few different prices. One was $573.24/month, $0 down, $600 security, $475 bank fee, & $155 tag fee. The second centered around the $488/month payment. They said I would have to put $1550 down and pay the all of the fees mentioned above if I wanted the $488/ month payment.

These prices are suppose to include X Plan pricing, which I am eligible for. The X plan pricing is 4% of MSRP added to the invoice price of $33,707 (which includes the $645 destination).

I find this whole lease negotiating process to be very confusing and very frustrating!

I have another question, if you don't mind. How should this lease be calculated considering the X Plan price? Should the lease calculations be based off of the X Plan or MSRP? It seems that they are only using the MSRP. Can you explain how to calculate a lease with the info I've provided? Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2001

Gigi22, I just ran a few numbers for you. If you were to lease a 2001 Land Rover Discovery SE with an MSRP of $37,795 and a capitalized cost of $35,219 (this assumes $0 down and a selling price of dealer invoice + 4% of the MSRP as you mentioned) for 48 months with 15,000 miles per year, right now your pre-tax monthly lease payments should be right around $540 per month.

I would be happy to explain to you how to calculate monthly lease payments. I published a fairly detailed explanation on how to calculate lease payments a while ago here in the Finance, Warranty, and Insurance Message Board. Unfortunately, in searching for it I now realize that it was wiped out in our transition to the new Town Hall. So, I will create a new topic where I will again explain how to calculate lease payments. Keep an eye out for it on this Board.

Car_Man
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joshdb · January 2001

I'm getting close to purchasing a 2001 Nissan Frontier XE X-cab 2WD. I live in the Sacramento, CA. area (95678 zip code). Does anyone have information on current rebates, incentives, etc. Also, how do I tell if these should be deducted from Edmund's TMV or if they have been considered in Edmund's TMV? Is a regional manufacturer->dealer incentive included in TMV calculation? Also, I'm kind of waiting to see if Nissan will release any new incentives (purchaser rebates) in the next month or so. Is it useless? When do incentive programs generally cycle for Nissan? What about in my area? Obviously I would like as much information as possible. I have read many of the articles here at Edmunds and checked the rebate listings but if someone would answer questions for my specific purchase I would really appreciate it.
Thanks Much,
Joshua

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2001

Hi Joshua. I do not believe that Edmunds.com's True Market Value Calculations currently take monthly incentives like Nissan usually offers incentives into account. As far as what incentives are available on the 2001 Frontier right now, Nissan has two different types of cash incentives on this truck, consumer and dealer cash. Whether they have consumer or dealer cash on this truck will very by region. Still, in general they have $1,500 on 2001 Frontier Non-Desert Runner and $1,000 on Desert Runner models. It is difficult to say what Nissan will do with their future incentives programs with any degree of certainty. Their current program runs through January 31st and I don't anticipate any revisions to it prior to then. The Frontier incentives have been fairly stable for some time and I do not expect any cash enhancements, but again it is difficult to say for certain.

Car_Man
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glenn54 · January 2001

Toyota's offering rebate's in my area (MD.)that are good thru the end of Jan. My projected time to purchase a truck is in Feb. (preferrably around Presidents day). Should I take advantage of the rebates now or hold out and hope for something simular in Feb. Is there any way to find out in advance if certain dealerships or car manufact. will be running specials in Feb.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2001

Hi Glen. As I have mentioned in the past, it is very difficult to predict exactly what a manufacturer will do with its future incentives programs with 100% accuracy. What manufacturers do with their future incentives programs is based a great deal upon how well specific models are selling. Models that are selling well really do not need any sort of cash or special financing to boost consumer interest. As a result, Toyota probably does not even know for certain what they will do with their February incentives until they see how January's sales are going. If I had to guess, I don't anticipate any drop-off next month in the level of support that Toyota is providing on its vehicles. In fact, many manufacturers offer strong incentives for the Presidents Day Weekend.

Car_Man
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mney6 · January 2001

Josh, You may want to call the dealer.The incentives on Frontier pick-ups range with the model you choose. In Iowa 2000 4x4 extended cabs have 1500 rebate. The 2001 Frontier 4x2 4cyl model has 750 but the 4x2 6 cylinder has no cash at all.Also the 6.9 financing is available on all models except for crew-cabs. confusing

floridian · January 2001

car man: just as always I'm a day late & a dollar short ! The last round of rebates on the Ford ZX2 and low ball financing on the ZX3 expired yesterday (Jan 16th) I have been looking at both and have located one of each. The deciding factor was to be the bottom line price taking into consideraton the rebate and/or the lower APR offered n the ZX3. Woe is me !The dealers do not seem to have ANY info on any new programs. I would think that IF they were going to continue rebates etc that they would have the info ON LINE at the beginning of business today. No such luck. At least the dealers SAY they don't know ??

Do you have ANY updates on what they are gonna do from today on ? I'd appreciate ANY info you may have as I don't want either of these cars to slip away after all the time and trouble I have taken to track them down. Dealers are USELESS when it comes to finding a specific car equipped the way you want. If they don't have it on the lot, too bad buddy, go find one yourself is their attitude it seems.

Floridian

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