Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

steine13 · December 2003

I dunno, a guy can get a little judgmental and condescending when he learns that after 10 months of research -- where'd ya start, principles of the Otto cycle? -- that someone has narrowed their choice to two of the biggest dogs out there.

So the question was to be expected. Not to mention that posting one's thoughts on an open internet forum, one is going to be subject to a little sniping every now and then... don't ask me how I know.

FWIW, I wouldn't buy a Hyundai, and the Malibu really isn't all that bad. I've rented one, and it is a pleasant highway cruiser. Just don't touch anything. The look and feel of the interior is somewhere between hapless and ugly, but what the heck.

There is NO WAY I'd buy one new, not with the market the way it is now and the sheer numbers of used Malibus out there.

But hey, it's your money, and if you lease it, you know exactly how long you're gonna have it... that's plenty of time to kick yourself if you wind up changing your mind. I'd not lease, but again, that's me. If you do, strongly consider a warranty extension through the end of you time with the car.

FWIW, I wrote a web page of thoughts on inexpensive car ownership, and you might want to take a look at it. Link's in my profile.

Good luck,
-Mathias

wantapassatnow · December 2003

"A guy can get a little judgmental and condescending when he learns that after 10 months of research ..."

Aah, thank you. There's one word in there that really sums it all up for me as to why he was condescending. Take a second to figure it out. (Wordsmiths may find this riddle as funny as I do!)

Thank you for your input. There was some helpful information contained within.

prodigalsun · December 2003

Sorry all, just was a little taken aback. My post truly was judgemental and condescending and I appologize for offending. I guess my good natured ribbing tone didn't come through. Everyone has their own criterion for what cars make sense for them, and who am I to cast aspersions? Perhaps I'll create another topic called Head to Head Comparisons : Daewoo Vs Kia, Who's the reliability powerhouse?

Just curious, why don't you want a passat now?

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2003

I just wanted to post a quick message to remind steine13 and prodigalsun that this is a discussion that was created for consumers to ask questions about incentives programs, not for you two to harass others about their choices in new vehicles. Please refrain from cluttering this discussion with any non-incentives related posts. Thank you.

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wantapassatnow · December 2003

Thank you to prodigalsun for your apology, and thank you to Car_man for getting the discussion back on track.

prodigalsun, you might be interested (happy?) to know I am now considering a Mazda3. Which leads me to my question for Car_man (I promise it's on topic!) -- with the "newness" of this car, are there now or do you anticipate there will be any rebates or incentives on it?

Thank you!

steine13 · December 2003

I haven't read everything you wrote, but did you use the magic words "GM Card" in there somewhere? If so, that's a heck of an argument to buy GM, and I'd like to suggest a serious look at the Pontiac Vibe. All Matrix/Corolla underneath, lots of fun to drive, and with the discount (here we are sqarely on topic) it's a heck of a deal. I just got one, and while I think it's not for everyone due to styling/noise/ride, it's worth a look.
-M

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2003

Ahhhh, back on topic. I feel much better now

. As you suspected, wantapassatnow, Mazda is not providing much in the way of incentives on the brand new Mazda3 at this time. The only offer that it has on it is 3.9% financing for up to 5 years. I suppose that it is better than nothing, but this rate is not that much better than the rates that consumers with very good credit could get through an independent bank.

Steine13, mentioned a great vehicle for you in the previous post. The Pontiac Vibe is the clone of the Toyota Matrix and as a result will probably end up being a very reliable vehicle. General Motors is providing thousands of dollars in incentives on it already and as an added bonus you can use your GM Card earnings and the bonus offer that you received in the mail on it. You should check it out. Granted, its styling is a little unusual and isn't for everyone, but I actually sort of like it.

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prodigalsun · December 2003

Well, since you're considering the Mazda3, have you thought about the Mazda6? I know there are some extremely killer rebates on those. I was looking at possibly getting a 6s, with leather, sport package for under 20K.

wantapassatnow · December 2003

Thanks for the tip on the Vibe. I will check it out, esp. given all the incentives, though the pics don't look too promising. lol. btw, prodigalsun, to answer your question: I don't want a Passat now cuz after I test drove it I hated it; it was too heavy for me. Too bad I couldn't change my Edmunds screenname!

ctrcss · December 2003

Chrysler has come out with a $750 Military appreciation incentive. I'm feeling appreciated because that put me over the top (along with a the other $3000 rebate) for buying my Sebring Convertible. It is a gorgeous Inferno Red LXi with a sandelwood top and interior. Looks great in my driveway, on the road, everywhere. Now I just need some warm weather so I can drop the top.

The real deal that made it for me was that I called Chrysler headquarters in search of a military rebate. None was offered when I called and the customer rep that I was talking to gave me one of his personal certificates for employee discount (4% below dealer invoice). That was WAY BEYOND anything I expected. They only get 2 to give to family and friends and he gave me one. Then when I went to the dealer, a regional miltary rebate had just come in. I got a $29,700 (MSRP) car for $22,900 (pre-TTL).

Thanks to all at Edmunds for making me such an informed buyer. It made the whole buying so much better experience than any car purchase I have ever made.

David

wantapassatnow · December 2003

Not sure if this question belongs here or not, so sorry in advance if it doesn't. I am getting closer and closer to getting the Mazda 3, and a local dealership -- Galpin Mazda -- says it offers special "just-above-cost" pricing the USC alumni and that there is no negotiating involved. I am a USC alum, so this will be great IF it is in fact a good deal. Does anyone here have any experience with this program? Is there truly no negotiation, or do they just say that to get you in there? Are their prices comparable to, say, what you'd get from the Internet or fleet manager? Thanks!

metmdx · December 2003

Hi again:
Still debating. Being as there is a "Toyotathon" on now in Metro NY, are there any rebates/incentives that you are aware of on the '04 4Runner LTD?

I don't see anything listed here in Edmunds, but I heard on the radio yesterday that "with the economy getting better" (?), the manufacturers are not being as forthcoming with information and that you should "ask the dealer".

As always, many thanks in advance !!!
metmdx

prodigalsun · December 2003

I thought about doing my first toyotathon, but since I'm so out of shape, I'll shoot for a 10 Kia.

metmdx · December 2003

Very clever. You should send that one in to Leno.
regards,
metmdx

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2003

Hi metmdx. Interestingly enough, Toyota actually does have incentives on the 2004 4Runner. In its New York region, it is providing $500 dealer cash on this truck. Granted, it's not much but it is more than I expected them to be providing on it at this time and will definitely help you in your negotiations now that you know about it. Good luck in your hunt for a new vehicle and please let me know if you have any other questions.

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prodigalsun · December 2003

But before I can share my latest gem, it's all "How did you get this number" and "What part of the restraining order did you not understand" and "You make distasteful smacking noises with your lips".

Sheesh, what's a guy gotta do to break into that biz?

lsg123 · December 2003

Heard a lot about "Fax Attack method",
what is actually that ?
1. Who should be a "receiver" Sale/fleet manager?
or just to send a fax without mentioning "Attn:"
2. Should I give my offer or just ask for a
quote for a car I want ?

KCRam · December 2003

Hi lsg123

Some dealers sour on fax attacks because most people are either not serious, don't make an ofer, or don't follow up.

If you're going to do a fax or email blast, make a firm offer of a real price, not "$$ over invoice/under MSRP". Describe the vehicle you want with the options you want. And most important, offer alternatives: give color choices for paint and interior, mention which options are not must-haves. Make sure you give real contact information (not some voice mail number you won't answer) and respond to all replies or counter-offers. It won't matter who you address it to; it will go to a sales rep anyway if the proper information is provided.

The more serious you are, the more serious they will be in doing business with you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2003

Hi lsg123. This isn't exactly a question about incentives, but I will answer it here for you anyhow. In the method for purchasing vehicles that you mentioned consumers fax a number of dealerships in their area asking for price quotes on the model that they are interested in. These faxes are often directed to fleet managers, but do not necessarily have to be, especially considering the fact that many fleet managers will not deal with consumers who are only interested in purchasing one vehicle. The faxing of dealerships by consumers has become a lot less popular in recent years because consumers can now e-mail dealers' Internet sales departments asking for offers. If I was in the market for a new car or truck and didn't feel like visiting a number of dealerships in person I would probably e-mail them rather than fax them. If you have any other questions on this subject, please post them over in the Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying or the Experience with e-mail only negotiations? discussion. Thanks.

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pdogg · December 2003

I just purchased my third (3rd) that's right Mitsubishi on November 27th. Got a fair deal based on heavy research and smart shopping. I took advantage of the year end rebate and customer loyalty cash. After being told by the dealer that this was the absolute best time to by this car I was comfortable and drove off.

Now. The dealer calls me on 12/4/03 and tells me that I need to open an account at the credit union that they established my finance with today! or the deal will void. So I leave work and run to the CU and when I get back I go to the mitsucars rebates and see that as of 12/3/03 they have increased the Customer Loyalty cash to customer rebate by two thousand dollars.

I feel like I was cheated out of this money.

Did the Dealer keep this cash as they didn't close my deal until 12/4/03?

What Can I do?

I am a loyal Mitsu owner, and I don't know that they will keep me any longer

eharri3 · December 2003

NEver thought it was supposed to work this way. I recently purchased a new truck with a 20% down payment and a low interest 5 year loan, with the intent of paying it off at least a year early to save money and keep up with depriciation.. I over paid on the first month, then when I got the bill for the second month's payment, it was reduced by the credit for the extra I paid. I over paid by the same amount anyway, but it had me a little confused. As far as I knew with car loans, if you over pay it doesnt help you out on the next month, but the money comes off the end of the loan.

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2003

Hi eharri3. Please check out my response to the similar post that you made in the following discussion: Questions About Financing New Vehicles.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2003

Hi pdogg. This is a very interesting situation. Mitsubishi introduced the owner loyalty program that you are referring to on December 3rd. Normally consumers who purchase vehicles are not entitled to any additional rebates if their vehicle's manufacturer enhances its incentives programs after they have already taken delivery of their car or truck. However, your situation is a little different because your loan may not have officially funded yet. You should place a call to the dealership that you purchased your new car from and see if they will do anything for you. Since this is your third new Mitsubishi, hopefully you have developed a good relationship with them and things will go smoothly. Try your dealer first, then if all else fails you can always place a call directly to Mitsubishi to see if they would be willing to do anything for you. Good luck and please come back to let us know how everything turns out.

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pdogg · December 2003

Thanks for the input. I agree. If nothing else I have a good relationship with Mitsu, but this is only me second car with this dealer, and dealer turn-over has been high here in Denver.

I just feel Burned, and taken advantage of. usually when a MFGR changes incentives etc. it's only by a few hundred at a time 500 here even a 1000. but jesus they trippled the incentive in December. 5 days after i took delivery.

Thanks for your comments I will let you know what happens.

thel · December 2003

Why would you feel taken advantage of? It's rare taht the dealer, much less the salesman, knows when increased incentives are due to come out. If you think that your dealer is cpable of something so underhanded as to take you rebate in the way that you describe, then why take your business to them?

It sounds to me like it is simply a case of bad luck for your part. Its a bummer, but I don't see any reason to get PO'd at the dealer for it, they don't decide when and where these incentives come out.

As the host said, if you're really really nice (and even luckier), your dealer may be able to do something to help you out, but don't go around with a sense of entitlement.

pdogg · December 2003

Thanks for your input.

For clarification, I harbor no ill feelings toward the dealer.
My quandry is with Mitsubishi. I have never seen a loyality incentive triple in one month.
I am sure it happens, however the is the first time I have been on the recieving end of it.

I don't know if you are a loyal line owner but I stayed with mitsubishi becuase of there great customer support and fun to drive, good looking vehicles. There are plenty of other SUV options out there, and my next car after this will now not be a mitsu.

It would have been nice to at least hear back from Mitsi, saying you are out of luck, but they haven't even called me back.

Kirstie_H · December 2003

A reporter is hoping to interview someone who is planning to buy a new vehicle in the next three months. If you are interested, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by January 1, 2003 with your name and daytime contact information.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

sutt1 · December 2003

How about them Cowboys:-) What do you all think if a dealer walks up to you and present 0% down for 60 months and this is only through ford credit or who ever dealer? After 6o minutes Tv show I'm going to drive the wheels off on what I have now and then WALK! When are the dealers going to wake up, this is the most dishonest LIE and should be thrown behind BARS. Ok, thanks Happy holidays to all :-)

metmdx · December 2003

Hi again:

I'm switching my focus to Tahoe vs. MDX. Have decided 4Runner is just not going to have enough cargo capacity for my needs. GM has 2500 natl and 3500 regional cash on Tahoe. Local dealer is advertising 6500 off msrp. Shouldn't I be able to get something close to invoice price BEFORE rebates are applied? Especially if I sign over rebate to dealer?
This would make for one heck of a deal in my book if I could get a 45k Tahoe for say 35K !
Whaddya think?
tia as always,
metmdx

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2003

Hey metmdx. I am not intimately familiar with the market for Tahoes in your area right now, but I would think that you should be able to negotiate a selling price that is very close to dealer invoice prior to having any incentives deducted on most General Motors products. GM certainly has some generous incentives on the 2003 Tahoe at this time. If you are in the market for one, there's no reason to wait.

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wtd44 · December 2003

The pattern I always try to follow is the one you suggested. I agree that you should start at the window sticker MSRP including "transportation")and determine the actual dealer invoice price (if that is ever possible). Then subtract all the rebates and other incentives that will be going to the dealer. Consider that the dealer will be getting hold back money on every sale he makes. Then, decide what you are willing to pay, in view of all these factoids. Also, there may be some interesting information in Consumer Reports for you to peruse as well.

gweilo · January 2004

I am considering buying a Saturn but have $3,800 in GM card earnings. It's my understanding that I can transfer these earnings to someone outside my family IF I give someone access to my account. This access apparently can be arranged over the phone with GM and can be closed as soon as the transaction is over..i.e. all in the same day. So...I am considering prowling GM dealer lots and trying to make a deal with prospective buyers to "give" them $800 in discount while I get the remaining $3,000. Seems like they would have to have cash($3,000) on hand since I am not a finacing institution. I would be present for the entire purchase process to assure I don't get screwed. Or..the local Saturn dealership owner also owns a Buick dealership. Think I could make my Saturn purchase contingent on them working a similar deal with a Buick buyer so I could get some use of GM Card earnings?
Anyone tried these or other arrangements?

gweilo · January 2004

Anyone have insight into whether incentives, especially GM/Saturn will be reduced in light of economic indicators? Automotive publications and interviews have shown execs warning of/hoping for rduced incentives. Anyone know any calendar pattern of incentives? What should we expect for the next few months to a year?

scott176 · January 2004

I'm shopping for a new truck. The dealer says the customer rebate is $2500. Edmonds shows several rebates in effect at the site below. Who's right? Is the dealer not telling me something here? Thanks, Scott

http://applications.edmunds.com/new/2004/gmc/sierra2500hd/1002748- 16/incentives.html?vdp=off&setzip=18436&state=PA&tid=- edmunds.n.incentivesindex.incentives.3.5.GMC*

explorerx4 · January 2004

looks like 2500 from gm web site. the link you provided does show a 3500 rebate until 1/12, but the 2500 rebate started 01/03, so i think it supercedes the 3500 rebate. it could be that the discontinue date on the 3500 rebate was not updated.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2004

Hi scott176. The page that you provided the link to certainly is confusing. I will try to clear things up for you. Right now General Motors is providing $2,500 customer cash or 0.0% financing for up to 4 years, 1.9% for 5 years, and 3.9% for 6 years on the 2004 GMC Sierra. Instead of the aforementioned options, consumers may combine $1,000 customer cash with 1.9% financing for up to 3 years, 2.9% for 4 years, 3.9% for 5 years, and 5.9% for 6 years. All of these incentives are good through January 12th. If I was in the market for a new GM product, I personally would probably wait until its new incentives are introduced. Although it is difficult to predict what manufacturers will do with their future programs with 100% accuracy, I suspect that GM's new program will be at least as aggressive as its current one, if not better.

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scott176 · January 2004

Hey thanks guys. I'll wait to see what rebates come out after 1/12. One last question. GM obviously made a change to the rebate early this year. Suppose I purchased the truck with cash in December. Would I have gotten a $4,500 rebate(the $1,000 + $3,500)? Thanks again, Scott

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2004

No problem, Scott. General Motors incentives varied by region in December, so in order for me to give you an accurate idea of what the programs were like on this truck last month, I need to know where you live. According to the zip code that you used to run the search that you posted the link to, it appears as though you live in Pennsylvania. I believe that PA is in General Motors' Northeast region. In your region last month, GM was providing $3,500 customer cash on the '04 GMC Sierra, which is obviously more attractive than the $2,500 that is available on this truck in the Northeast region right now.

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minime5 · January 2004

Car Man,
Can you tell me what incentives, if any, Cadillac has going on the SRX? I live in zip code 60061.

Thanks!

ipoddin · January 2004

I'm considering leasing a new Pacifica (I'm in Los Angeles). As I understand it, Chrylser currently offers a $3000 rebate on new leases. My question is, how does a rebate work. Is this given to the dealer by the factory for any car they lease?

The reason I ask is because then, theoretically, I could offer invoice, or even less, and their arguement "we need to make a profit" doesn't work because they're making $3000 no matter what, right?

Am I understanding this correctly? Not only do they get that, there's also dealer holdback (which is 3% for Chrysler)...so there's potentially even more money in it for the dealer and no reason I shouldn't get invoice or below invoice.

Is there anything else being offered for leasing new Pacifica's in my area I should be aware of?

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2004

Hi minime5. Consumers always want what's new and hot. The longer a model has been out, particularly domestic models, the more likely it is that its manufacturer will have to provide some sort of support on it to help it sell. Cadillac recently enhanced its special financing program on the 2004 SRX from 5.9% for up to 5 years to 1.9% for up to 3 years, 2.9% for 4 years, and 3.9% for 5 years. Two months ago it enhanced its special lease rate on the SRX from 5.5% to 3.95%. GM also is providing $1,500 conquest cash on this model. This means that consumers who own non-GM products are eligible for a $1,500 cash incentive on it. So as you can see GM is slowly starting to ramp up its incentives on this model. These are the only incentives that I am aware of on this vehicle at this time, but as the model year progresses I would not be surprised to see GM further increase its support on this model.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2004

Greetings, ipoddin. You are correct. Chrysler will provide $3,000 lease cash on all 2004 Pacifica models leased through Chrysler Financial at this time. While some manufacturers will allow consumers to have a check sent to them for the amount of any available incentives, in 99.99999% of the cases any cash incentives that a manufacturer is providing on a car or truck are used to reduce its selling price. If the incentive is a consumer allowance, which the $3,000 that is available on the Pacifica is, then you will most likely be presented with a form when you take delivery of your vehicle to sign the cash over to your dealer.

This is how you should handle negotiations on a vehicle that has cash incentives available on it. Keep the negotiation as simple as possible by agreeing upon a price with your dealer for the Pacifica BEFORE any incentives have been taken into account, making sure to make it clear that all available incentives will eventually be subtracted from this price. Once you have arrived at a selling price then take the $3,000 off of it. This will prevent the dealership that you are working with from making it look like they are providing you with a larger discount than they really are.

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ipoddin · January 2004

Thanks Car_Man....that's how I thought it worked and that's how I planned to use it in negotiations. Negotiate selling price first, then subtract the $3k to get to cap cost.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2004

You're very welcome, ipoddin. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

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151ranch · January 2004

First on the Focus SVT or ZX5 Premium in Texas and second on the Ford F250 Diesel in Texas or Wisconsin.

I'm showing $1500 on the Focus and $1500 on the truck plus the AQHA rebate and perhaps a FMcredit rebate? Anything else?

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2004

Hi 151ranch. I believe that there is indeed $1,500 customer cash on the 2004 Ford Focus in your area right now. Ford is offering special financing rates as low as 0.0% in lieu of this cash. These are the main incentives that are available on this car right now. The only other offer that I am aware of on it is the free ESP that Ford has been providing on this car for a while now. Ford is giving consumers who purchase a new Focus a free 5 year / 100,000 mile Powertrain extended warranty.

Ford is providing customer cash on a number of F-Series variants this month, even including the new Light Duty. According to the latest informaiton that I have seen, there is $1,000 customer cash or special financing rates as low as 0.0% on '04 F-Series LD models at this time. The only other offer that I am aware of on this truck is a special certificate program, through which Ford provides dealers with a certain number of $500 certificates, zero, one, or two of which can be applied towards the purchase or lease of a new F-Series Light Duty pickup.

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ipoddin · February 2004

Could someone please explain how dealer holdbacks work and how I can use that to my advantage? I'm looking to lease a '04 Chrysler Pacifica. Thanks!

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2004

Hi ipoddin. Let me begin by saying that you definitely should not mention dealer holdback to any dealer that you are working with. Doing so will only annoy them and serve to break down your negotiations. It is important for you to know that dealer holdback exists so and how it works so that you can be an educated consumer, but it really does not have much of an impact on the price that you will end up paying for your new vehicle. Dealers rarely dip into their holdback to make deals. Smart shoppers are able to purchase vehicles for the lowest price that the market allows, regardless of whether dealer holdback exists. If the dealer that you are working with could easily sell the Pacifica that you want for $X over invoice to another customer they are not going to sell it to you for less than invoice. The best way for you to find out what sort of price you should pay for this vehicle is to stop by the Chrysler Pacifica: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion that appears here on the Smart Shoppers Message Board and to look up this model's Edmunds.com True Market Value by visiting the New Vehicle Pricing section of this site.

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ipoddin · February 2004

Thanks for the advice. I will keep all of that in mind.

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2004

You're welcome, ipoddin. Let me know if you have any other questions.

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Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

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