Real-World Trade-In Values

rroyce10 · February 2003

..... A 6 banger huh. ..

Based on what you are telling me, 35k 4x4, and all the stuff, it sounds pretty nice .. so on a trade, he should be seeing in and around the low to mid $13's ...

Terry.

rroyce10 · February 2003

.... This should be enough time, it's only 6:06am in Lost Wages .. but cutting it close.

      20k is a lot of miles for an 03, sounds like a rental vehicle .. that doesn't make it good and that doesn't make it bad. As long as the history is fine and no big hit's, sound's like you are just about there in price .. $11,9 "seems" to have a nice "ring" to it .. they probably paid $10,5++ for it ..

      Since you are in Vegas, are you coming back by plane or a Greyhound bus .l.o.l..

          Terry.

jbollt · February 2003

Thanks, Terry! And, returning to Tucson by plane..I don't spend any time in the casinos, except for a buffet. The car fax shows only one item, original title transfer, not to a lease or rental co. Dealer says it was a "freeway car" trade in on new Camry. Based on your input, we are going to go for it. Mom kept last car for 10 years, and only put on 42,000 miles..this should do as well...

thanks for your help!

bottgers · February 2003

What do you mean by this statement: "Chrysler will negotiate, but your vehicle might do the high 3's, might, maybe, do the low, low, 4's....maybe." Are talking about this is the kind of money this car would bring at an auction or what?

Trading the vehicle is not an option I'd even consider. I'd turn it in before I do that. I just don't see how I could lose more money by buying it and selling it, as opposed to having to pay the $2K if I turned it in. There's no way I'd lose that much selling it.

jaserb · February 2003

Sounds like famous last words to me!

Back to the peanut gallery,

-Jason

inneedofhelp · February 2003

Terry thanks for the reply, 42,000 miles is alot for a four year old car ? So if I went the retail
route in a month or two (still winter here in Michigan)my asking price should be $21,500 ?
21,000 ?

mirth · February 2003

Here's a few figures based on your and Terry's posts.

Let's say Chrysler goes for your $6500 offer. If your sales tax is 6%, you end up paying $6890.

You have to put an ad in the paper, say $30. Now you're at $6910.

Here's selling prices and what your net loss will be:

Sell at: Loss:
$4500 $2410
$5500 $1410
$6500 $410

You roll the dice and take your chances I guess. Part of it depends on how low Chrysler will go. If they won't go below $7000 then I'd just turn it in.

bottgers · February 2003

Like I said earlier, if I can get the Mazda dealer, who I plan to purchase a new MPV through to work with me, I won't have to pay any sales tax. The car would basically end up going straight from my lease company, to the person buying it from me.

There's no way I'd even consider selling a car with an NADA value of $8225 for $4500. I'd keep it first. In fact, anyone would be hard pressed to get it for less than $6K. This was a $22K car new, and it's only 5 years old. I'm not giving it away.

mirth · February 2003

Hey, if you can make it work, more power to ya.

butchbr73 · February 2003

your asking for advice on what to do, but it sounds like you already know what you want to do.

if I were you, I would get out my checkbook and start writing out a check for the excess mileage. chalk this up to a lesson learned on leasing.

if you plan on buying it and trying to sell, I hope you have a buyer lined-up before hand, otherwise you may be sitting on this for awhile. It would be hard to sell that car for 5.5-6k, like Terry said, they are only pulling 3.5-4 at the auctions. NADA doesn't mean much. Let Chrysler take the loss.

The true value of a used car is driven by its wholesale value at a specific time... doesn't really matter what the books say. Sort of like stocks. Look in the stock market, a stock is a certain price on any given day. Doesn't matter if some report says it should be $xxx.xx, its still the price the market sets on that day. Now lets take a look at used cars, the value of a used car is tied heavily to what the wholesale price is, or auction price..... is that a good analogy?

Look at the bright side, you only paid on the depreciation of the car from $22k to $9k, could of been worse. Sounds like you got a decent deal there (Leasing is basically paying for the depreciation of the vehicle over a period of time + interest on the depreciation).

good luck, think positive.
Brent

bottgers · February 2003

I haven't made up my mind what I want to do yet. I can see where you're coming from, but I still don't know how what these cars are selling for at the auctions dictates what mine is worth. Cars selling at an auction are in a different situation than those sold by private owners. The cars at the auctions must sell right then and there. This is not the case with cars being sold by individuals or dealerships. We have days, or even weeks to sell these vehicles. Shouldn't the actual retail value be determined by what these vehicles are selling for at the dealerships, and by private owners? I know they aren't selling for $3.5K-$4K in this situation.

butchbr73 · February 2003

what i don't think you are seeing is the retail price of cars are directly driven by the wholesale value of the car at a certain point and time. Dealers price cars by what "they have in them," which is typically around the wholesale value of the car. Obviously you have to add some profit, but run a few ROUGH numbers (Terry might be able to elaborate):

Wholesale - 3,500
detail - 300?
service - 500?
profit - 1500

price - 5800. dealer get'em price.
I think you would agree private sales are typically less, but you may get lucky. I wish you luck if you decide to go the sell it yourself route.

rroyce10 · February 2003

..... Pheeeeew, talk about opposites .. I figured you would be the one screaming about the book value, and Bottgers would be going away to ponder ..

      Thanks for being level headed .. most of the books show a price of $20++ on a trade and that ain't going to happen -- I would wait for the weather to clear, then have a ultra detail done, service records on the seat, a Nice Big Fat 5 liner ad, in the largest paper in your area .. I would start it up at $23,9 and let it go to the cutest cheerleader at Michigan State for $22/$23 .. no, the miles aren't really that bad at all ..

        You better let me know what happens .!

         Now, let me wonder over to this Bottgers guy, cuz' he doesn't want to pay for all the miles he's piled up on his Doo Ge'...

             Terry.

workinclassdog · February 2003

You were right on with the numbers... they offered 6K on the Hyundai and I talked 'em up to $6280... not too bad

Thanks agn for the help!

rroyce10 · February 2003

..... (Here we go again) .. Right now, Chrysler is in the drivers seat .. your lease isn't up til' June .. right.?

         They want $8,900 for the vehicle, they might do like $7,500 .. maybe.!

         And I have a sneakin' feeling they know the miles .. right.? - Here's the deal Lucille, Chrysler doesn't have to do anything .. and they are not really going to get serious til the last 2/3 weeks of the lease ... and at that time, your vehicle will have more wear, tear and miles .. it might be worth a quarter then (who knows?) ..

       I understand your frustration, but you feel your vehicle is worth a whole lot more than it really is .. it has miles, wear, it has dings and dents. Right now, any dealer can buy a 98 Nice, Clean, 35/40k, ES, with leather, Infinity sound, slider, wheels -- basically a "day glow" vehicle tomorrow for $5,8, maybe $6ish .. drop an ad in the paper and have it sold for $7,500/$8,0, this vehicle is one of a few - your vehicle is one of "Many" --

        Seriously, what are you giving away .. ? -- like I said before, what's it gonna do ~double nickels . or maybe $6 with everything going your way, the stars are aligned with Venus, the humidity factor is perfect for the Loggerhead Turtles to mate and the barometric pressure is perpendicular to Pluto ..

       Forget those books, if you believe in them so much, have them send you a Reader for $9 grand - if they decide not to do that (Ha.!) .. then cut this "bad boy" from the herd at the end of the lease, your killin' yourself over this ~ it's a car, not Janet Jackson ...

          I just gave myself a headache ..

               Terry :-0

anonymousposts · February 2003

Terry, I can get the car for $2200. My mom will be doing alot of in-state driving and she wants something cheap and reliable to drive around instead of piling up the miles on her lease. I think the car is a good deal but I think she would be better served with a Accord, Civic, or Camry from the same vintage. What's your $.02?

rroyce10 · February 2003

...... Wow, that's cheap .. real cheap.! -- this is from a dealer ..?

Hey, what the heck .. if it has a good history and a Good Tech gives it the Ok, then I wouldn't be afraid of it .. $2 grand.? - you don't get much today for $2 grand .. the only pain on those were the og sensors, but that's nothing ..

Terry.

dhoff · February 2003

"with everything going your way, the stars are aligned with Venus, the humidity factor is perfect for the Loggerhead Turtles to mate and the barometric pressure is perpendicular to Pluto .. "

Terry, how do you come up with this stuff?! Keep up the good work.

Dave

anonymousposts · February 2003

Thanks for the input. It was a trade and the dealer can't resale it due to miles. I will have it inspected and go from there.

As always, thanks for your help.

afk_x · February 2003

Terry -

Thanks for your help. Before getting the info from me he did the deal.

They were asking 34,995

He offered 31,000 - and took it home for 32,700.

He knows he didn't get a great deal but he is incredibly picky and to quote him, "There was not a spec of dirt anywhere, it was essentially a brand new car..."

Maybe you're wondering why I didn't just sell him one myself. Had I known he was going to lay down for heavy poundage I may have...

rivertown · February 2003

Shoot, if you think you're right, go for it. Terry's right a lot of the time; but he's been dead wrong, too. He's just a guy with an opinion. . . that you asked for.

Dumping because you don't like it is, well . . . you know.

bottgers · February 2003

.......because I don't like his opinions, it's because I don't like the condescending tone he uses in all of his posts to me. I'm not a peasant, and he's not a God.

tboner · February 2003

I think if you read through the wit and sarcasm you will learn that you didn't get screwed, you simply have to pay for the miles you used over and above your lease agreement.

It's not getting screwed when you are paying for your "overusage" of the vehicle.

I think your only opportunity to get royally screwed is if you buy the car for the residual when you A) Don't want it and

don't have a buyer yet.

Seems to me it's just a game of financial chicken.

You don't want the car, and in reality DC doesn't want the car, they have tons of them. However, you know you are over the mileage and they may suspect it, and both of you know the car is not worth the residual.

You can search for:

A) Someone who wants the car
and

A price you can get DC to agree to that is lower than your residual

or

C) The cash to pay for the over miles and any wear and tear charges.

Nothing to get emotional about, just business.

It doesn't cost you much to try to sell the car yourself, and if the difference between your sale price and the buyout (renegotiated or otherwise) is less than what you expect in mileage and wear charges, the pull the trigger.

Of course you have to factor in any remaining lease payments when calculating the buy out.

So clean it up and 60 days before you have to turn it in, try to sell it. If it doesn't sell, you are only out your time and the cost of a few ads. And turning in a clean car can't hurt when they go to figure those charges, LOL.

However, the only reasons I would buy out this car from the lease are:

a) I have a buyer in hand and recoup some or all of the mileage and fees.

b) I want to keep the vehicle for myself. (Then I'd expect a hefty discount from the residual, otherwise, go shopping.)

TB

vocus · February 2003

I have an 02 Jetta that I was thinking about selling because I wanna go back to school and not have to pay a car payment every month. I checked cars.com's "black book", KBB, and NADA guides' websites. The thing is, the amounts all seem to vary wildly. So what do you think?

02 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic, Leather Pkg., sport suspension, Monsoon radio with wheel controls, 31K highway miles, all service records, 2 little scrapes on the back bumper that I can fix with touchup paint, and never been in an accident. The car's Cool White with black leather inside. I live in MD, 21230 zipcode.

I would like trade-in (I might go to a cheaper car) and retail (private sale) prices if you could. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

bradlake1 · February 2003

Hello:

Seeking trade-in info for a 96 Ford Explorer E.B. There are 104K miles on the odometer. Clean, no body damage...just a few scratches. Tires are good. Loaded however, no sunroof. I am in Atlanta. Your thoughts?

steine13 · February 2003

tboner has said it all. Excellent post.

As far as:
"I'm not a peasant, and he's not a God."

He's not?
OK, maybe not.
But, He has always hit my cars to within a couple $100 or so.
And I think he's funny, if a bit different from other children.

-Mathias

rivertown · February 2003

Terry's 'tone' is just part of it. Read enough posts here and you'll see there's just nothing 'personal' to how he initially replied to you. You might as well go into Baskin & Robbins and complain about 'purple'.
Elevate Terry to "God", and demote yourself to "peasant". Or, buy into either role. Neither seems like a smart move to me.

Wanna fuss about tone or deal with your car?

bradlake1 · February 2003

The color of the vehicle is Maroon w/ beige trim.

isellhondas · February 2003

I think Terry has simply lost his patience with you.

You have asked the same questions repeatedly in several forums and you always get the same answers.

When you leased your van, you knew, or should have known the exact terms of the lease.

Now, it seems you want to change these terms in your favor.

Read tboner's post to you again. These are the hard facts.

inneedofhelp · February 2003

Well Terry the reason I didn't get upset is because I follow your advise a year ago when you
recommended that I purchase it for $26,000:)
I love the car but I drove an XJR and the power is
incredible.

zueslewis · February 2003

job most consumers cannot even grasp, spends some time here in a volunteer effort to help folks out is incredibly commendable.

How many people do you know in the car business that would donate 8,10, 20 hours of each week to HELPING folks? Not many - most are too busy and don't want to get involved in transactions where they won't personally profit. I don't even spend that much time here.

He basically owns this topic and is deadly accurate - that's from a fellow car guy who's appraised over 10,000 vehicles - me. He has more insight on the car business and used car market than I could ever have.

I'm not going to be mean here, but the fact that Terry even answered you after unpteem questions is commendable. You don't like what he said, and I'm sorry, but he's a realitic person.

You signed a lease agreement and agreed to a residual value and mileage allowance - that's the downside of leasing. That's also the downside of leasing a vehicle with very poor market strength. Live and learn, as we all have.

zueslewis · February 2003

I don't recommend leasing at all unless you have some way to get reimbursed for your payout - you truly have nothing to show except the rental of a vehicle. If you're over miles, just like with a rental, it costs you extra.

robr2 · February 2003

...didn't you read what you signed???

You agreed to pay $330/month for 5 years to use the car based on X miles per year. I'm sure the agreement stated it will cost Y per mile over X miles. You've gone over the miles.

I feel for you. It's not fun knowing you have to shell out more money for a car you don't own. But your last post pulls out the victim card. Yeah you're getting hosed, but when you signed the lease you agreed to the possible hosing. No you don't have to like the end result, but you got yourself into it. Stop complaining about it and move on. Turn the car in, pay the cash and walk away. Chalk it up to lessons learned.

You think my co-worker is happy about the $500 deductible he had to pay for the icicle that smashed the hood of the rental car? After all, he was driving the rental because his Jetta was having coils replaced under warranty. Since VW was paying for it, perhaps the onus is on them to pay the $500? Since the icicle damage happened in his MIL's driveway, she or her homeowners' insurance should pay the $500?

bradlake1 · February 2003

Terry has not turned a deaf ear to the list because of disgruntled posters. I am seeking his valued response.

tboner · February 2003

How about bottgers create or revive any existing topics about lease end choices.

Hmmm, there is a topic. Maybe someone with a lease could start it up. Then we can get back to vehicle values, trade or otherwise here and discuss the lease end options elsewhere.

I'm not sure bottgers question is appropriate for F&I since we are talking about the end of lease.

FWIW,

TB

qbrozen · February 2003

Hell, as far as I'm concerned, if you get out of a 5-year lease with just a $2K penalty, you got off EASY. When I met the woman who is now my wife, we were both in leases. Her in a 4-year and me in a 3-year. Well, we got married, bought a house, had longer commutes to work, etc. By the time we got out of those 2 cars, we had eaten about $9K. We both learned never to lease again, of course, but our lesson cost a helluvalot more than yours may, so I consider you quite lucky.

qbrozen · February 2003

I hope you ignore any negative posts and just keep doing what you've been doing all this time. don't let one bad apple... well, you know how it goes.

mirth · February 2003

You keep complaining about having to take a stick up the behind and like it. Well, you're the one who shoved it up there, so stop blaming Chrysler. You're not a victim here, and you're lease terms are very standard.

But, like I said, if you think you can save some fees by buying and selling the car yourself, more power to you. You can come back and shove it in everyone's face. ;-)

handsfree1 · February 2003

Well I did it, or should I say WE did it!
He wanted $39,900 for it, so we ended up at $38,000 and I'm doing hand flips. All the paper work is done, the warranty has been transferred to me, we have already done all the title things and I'm overjoyed with MY new car and it's a beauty, I guess we will have to go to NY to show it off to some of our friends, I will have to to send you some pics!

Thank you very much-Again!
You are the very, very best!!
M.

bottgers · February 2003

I doubt anyone in here will be up for any congeniality awards anytime soon.

zueslewis · February 2003

rivertown · February 2003

I nominate Zues for CONGENIALITY

and the Emperor for WARDROBE

isellhondas · February 2003

Bottgers did not get "hosed". He is simply being asked to live up to his end of the terms he agreed to.

He needs to come to grips with reality and move on with his life.

Kinda sounds like one of those "it's not my fault" arguments.

rroyce10 · February 2003

....... Food for thought ..

There's no limit to what a man can do or where he can go .. if he doesn't mind who gets the credit.

Terry.

rroyce10 · February 2003

..... You did good on that one .. kinda missed the bullet .. good job.!

Terry.

rroyce10 · February 2003

.... I remember you now .. that XJR is a real "barn burner" .. whoooa, getcha some of that .. I use to like those vehicles until I got stopped in GA, doing 91mph in a 55mph zone with a FL license and 3 different dealer tags .l.o.l.. all expired.. duh.!

Terry :-))

rroyce10 · February 2003

...... Oooh, sounds like he's gonna have a Firm grip on that one ..

Terry.

rroyce10 · February 2003

...... Need a little help here ..

         2WD ... ?

          V6 ... V8 ......?

          AWD ...... ?

                4x4 .............?

              Go to your room .......... !!!

            Terry.

rroyce10 · February 2003

........ Hey, great piece of negotiation .. $38, is a Great price and yes, I would love to see some pics of that Bad boy -- your going to love it, it's a "Extreme machine" ..

Terry :-)

rroyce10 · February 2003

........ GLS .. right.?

The miles are going to come back and slap ya right upside your head .. based on what you are telling me, trade side you should be seeing the high $11's, low $12's ..

Terry :-(

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