Real-World Trade-In Values

im_brentwood · July 2001

$23K is a little light... I mean, OK, It is a FWD in CO and that does hurt it, but its worth a bit more than that. I say keep shopping.

Bill

im_brentwood · July 2001

If clean... $19K or so seems to be the number. You ought to be within $500 or so of that.

Hope this helps!

Bill

im_brentwood · July 2001

Hmm..

First, dont paint it. If you do, you'll spend all that money and then the car will get punished for having paintwork on it.

Lack of sunroof and leather hurts too I'm afraid.

From the sounds of it I am going to make you very unhappy... $8,500 is where I'd hit the car.

Personally I'd throw it on eBay or in the paper or something... You ought to be able to do pretty well that way.

Bill

qbrozen · August 2001

Ugh! sorry to keep doing this to ya, but I've got another one to inquire about. I swear, this is it! If I don't buy this one, I'm waiting until February when I can get out of my lease without a hassle.

'98 S70 T5 with leather and manual tranny (I found one!!!), as always, in jersey. I want to know what the dealer probably has in the car.

Does the rarity of the stick in this car hurt it or help it??

thanks

whoweare · August 2001

Bill--

Not unhappy at all (the lack of sunroof and leather enabled me to by it private at wholesale value when I got it in '98!) I'm more than comfortable with doing a private sale but I wanted to make sure it was worth my time.

Does the same advice about paintwork hold if I sell private?

Thanks!

cfg1 · August 2001

Good call, Bill. The Mercury dealer went up to 25.3K and I figured that was close enough.

Of course, now I'm stuck with a Mountaineer that is going to depreciate about 10K in the next year, but at least the wife is happy.

tboner1965 · August 2001

things called a newspaper, check out Cathy today.

I think she's been trying to buy a car for the past couple of weeks.

Today, the trade-in.

TB

oregonman · August 2001

5 speed
Silver
25000 miles
Immaculate condition, non smoker, non eater (in car), 1 door ding (ouch, that hurt)
I even have the original unused flooor mats - I used rubber mats from day 1.

I've checked Edmunds, KBB, and NADA and the prices they have are all over the map. TI ranges from $12700 - $17600 and retail from $15000 - $20000. The ads in the local (Portland, OR) paper have a wide range as well, from $13000 to $19000 (dealer).

I'll probably sell it myself. I'll be getting another Outback and would consider trading it in, but I suspect that I can get a lot more on a private sale. (brentwoodvolvo, thanks for the sample ad for the Mazda a little while back - If I sell it myself, I'll definately use similar wording.)

Finaly, I noticed an increase in the number of used Outbacks on the lots recently, perhaps from expiring leases or trade ins from people taking advantage of incentives at the end of the 2001 model year. I am wondering if I would be better off waiting a few months. Is it possible that the prices may get firmer after the dealers have sold off these cars?

Thanks in advance for any input.

agt_cooper · August 2001

Just curious why you're getting rid of such a lightly used car only to replace it with another of the same model....are you going for the 6 cylinder this time? Or the automatic?

Just curious...

im_brentwood · August 2001

Gee... I'd love to help but...

How many miles are on the thing?????

im_brentwood · August 2001

I'd get a quote first... I think that $150 on a super duper detail is money muchbetter spent...

And glad I wasnt the bad guy!

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

Yeah, now you're on the money. Again, perhaps a touch light but its a 2WD in Colorado. Worth 26,500-27K here, but thats Florida, where an AWD is barely worth that.

That new Mountaineer is niiice....

Enjoy! You did well.

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

OK...

I;m not sure where the 12,700 number came from, that seems low... $17K seems too high as well.

Outbacks are pretty darn good merchandise. Normally I'd say $16,000 in Oregon or so on your car wholesale. However, I'd want to be a solid $500 back of that because of the 5-speed.

Less here in Florida obviously (Subarus dont sell very well down here)

That's based on what they are doing at auction.

As far as retail goes... Put it in the paper for $18,900/bo. That's realistic I think.

Glad the ad helped!

When I looked it up in my program I didn't see a higher volume than normal... I do know that about every one that I have ever seen sold at auction here in FL has gone out of state...

Bill

thel · August 2001

It's red, 5-spd, only option is the cassette player and floor mats. It has 2100 miles. Thanks.

qbrozen · August 2001

I had a feeling I forgot something, but I couldn't pin it down. Well, it HAD 43K miles on it, but I called last night and they "think" its sold. They were going to check and call me back, but never did. I guess they aren't that anxious to sell cars. Thanks anyway.

But, if I could get an estimate on that car, I'd still appreciate it - for future reference.

Again, '98 S70 T5 with leather, stick, and about 40-45K miles. That one happened to be green. Thanks.

laurakat · August 2001

I have a '97 Intrepid with 98k miles. It's silver, has the 3.3 liter v6, bucket seats, and upgraded wheels. It also has an aftermarket AM/FM/CD system, but I have the original AM/FM/Cassette that I can have reinstalled if that makes any difference. The car is exceptionally clean. The body is near perfect with paint that shines like a new car when washed. The interior is near perfect. For a Dodge with that many miles on it, it still runs/drives very tight and smooth.

Kelly Blue Book lists trade-in value at around $5400 for 'excellent' condition. Edmunds lists approx. $6000 trade-in for 'excellent' condition. Personnally, I think $6k is stretching it a bit for a trade value, but is $5400 realistic? I'm hoping to get someware around $5700 - $5800, but I'm trying to establish a 'rock bottom' trade price that I'm willing to deal with. One other thing, I'll likely trade it for a new Protege LX 2.0 and the dealer is a Chrysler/Mazda dealer. Since Dodge is a Chrysler Corp. product, would that make a difference?

Thanks in advance,
Mike.

oregonman · August 2001

Good question. I would like to switch to an automatic, but that is secondary. My primary reason is that I like having a relatively new car, partly just because it is new and partly so I don't have to worry about breakdowns. I know that the conventional wisdom is that it is most economical way to own a car is to buy a car and drive it till it dies, but I am not sure the costs are that much higher to drive a relatively new car if you do it right. My goal is to drive a car less than 3 years old for depreciation costs of roughly $1000 - $1250 per year. I did it with my last car, a 1995 Subaru Legacy L which I purchased for $16200 and sold it 3yrs, 3mos later (around 30K miles) for $13000. I paid $20600 for my Outback and it is coming up on 3 years old, so If I can get somewhere around $17000 for it, I can achieve my goal.

If I kept the car ten years to 100K miles, what would it be worth? probably not $10000. So it will depreciate more than $1000 per year and maintenance costs get higher as the miles increase. I know, of course, that this ignores the cost of money, but i do not finance, so the cost is the lost opportunity cost. Someday I may get motivated to do a full analysis of this including the cost of money and the actual maintenance costs, but for now I have done enough back of the envelope scribbling to know that for the costs involved, I'd rather drive a new car.

oregonman · August 2001

The $12700 figure came from NADA as the trade in value. I just checked them again and now it comes out as $16125. I don't know if it was their goof or if I did something wrong - probably I put in the wrong data somehow. This puts NADA right in the middle between Edmunds and Kelley and darn close to your figure. I hope you are right about the $18900 being a good starting price, but I am not too optimistic because I put it in the paper about 9 months ago for $18500 and got no calls. I just used a short ad though with just the facts. Trying to keep it down to 3 lines was probably false economy. This time I'll spend more on the ad and really sell it.

I can understand them not being in demand in Florida. I love mine and plan on getting another, but probably wouldn't buy one if I lived in Florida. Why pay for the AWD and ground clearance when you don't need it?

lancerfixer · August 2001

Have you ever considered leasing? You sound like someone for whom leasing was custom-made. 5-speed Outback, huh? If I hadn't just bought a car, I'd have been interested...

oregonman · August 2001

First, leasing is financing. I can pay cash, which is cheaper. Second, leasing is too uncertain. Yes you can win if the residual is set too high, but you can also lose big. What if I decide to take a job 50 miles away? I'll blow away the mileage limits and have to pay mileage charges. What if I drive less than I expect and I turn it in with much lower mileage? Who decides on the wear and tear? I know I keep the car pristine, but what if it is in an accident. What if Subaru comes out with a car I just have to have in 2003? I think that leasing is generally a bad deal, except in the cases where manufacturers have given incredible subsidies, usually in the form of unrealistically high residuals. Of course there are times when they make sense, but I think those are unusual cases. My guess is that most leases are to people who want to buy the most car that they can with a fixed monthly payment. If you can explain how I would benefit from a lease, I'll gladly listen. I'm always willing to change my mind. This is probably getting off topic for this board, though, so if you want to discuss it, we should probably find the right board.

Oh and keeping at least partially on topic, if you hadn't just bought a car and were interested in mine, what would you pay for it?

agt_cooper · August 2001

Nothing wrong with wanting to drive a new car!! The benefits of not having to worry about unexpected repairs and the hassle involved is certainly worth something. I'm the type that keeps cars for a good long while, but that can sometimes be a real pain when many things go wrong one after the other.

Good luck with the new Outback....the new styling is nice.

lancerfixer · August 2001

I think I'll defer to the expertise of the professional car types here (Bill, you wanna take this one?) but it would seem to a layman such as myself that leasing would work to your advantage. If all you're doing is paying for the depreciation, why tie up your cash like that? You mentioned what would happen if your car got into an accident; I think that would be the leasing company's problem as far as diminished value goes. As the owner, any diminished value due to damage would be your problem. Seems a pretty big gamble. As far as valuing your car, I'm not sure; I'd have to do some market research. I was looking at used Outbacks for a while before realizing that at this stage, my needs could be met with something a bit more inexpensive; an extremely well-kept '89 Volvo 740 5-speed crossed my path, and that's what I've ended up with.

im_brentwood · August 2001

Geez... I dont see any records for them and I don't want to guess. My gues sis that retail is going to be something like $1,000 or so back of current market on them (I.E. you wanna try and go private sale here) so wholesale will be $2,500 back of there...

Smartest thing you can do is to start contacting the used car managers at local Mazda dealers and see what they might want to pay for it..

2002s are sorta tough to "hit" as there really isnt a market for them yet.

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

Hmm... Emerald Green, eh? Not a terribly expensivbe color.. not bad tho.

Figure that car's currently gonna do something like $14,500-15K at the auction if its' nice so figure fair retail is something like $16,500-17K or so. About $700 more if its' certified.

So dont go paying $20K

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

oohhh... you're not gonna like me.

You might need to go private sale I think. Generally, its' been my experience that a lot of the online car appraiser sites (KBB in particular) tend to get real "optimistic" when you select "excellent", especially on a high mile car.

See where it hits it for "fair" condition...

First, upgraded wheels? Put the stock ones back on, ditto with the stereo if you're gonna trade it.

You are about to hate me I am afraid. If its' immaculate and Silver... and really perfect... $3,500-$4,000 is pretty much "all the money". (This assumes its' an ES) I recently took in a car like yours, a 97 ES with 70K on the closk that I took to the auction. Gold, clean..etc.. nice car. Sat for 30 days, keys didnt even get checked out for 30 days except for lot porters... to the auction it went. IIRC I think it sold for about $4,500-4,800 or so.

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

Sounds more realistic to me I think...

Do try the fancier ad, ask yourself which one you'd be more likely to respond to... Its' all about marketing!

99 Outback 5sp Silv 25K clean call 407-555-1212

OR

"99 Subaru Outback Wagon. Silver with light grey cloth in absolutely as new condition. Loaded with power options, Moonroof, ABS and more. Never damaged, abused, smoked or eaten in. Possilbly the cleanest outback in the Northwest! Fastidiously maintained and a truly beautiful car. New Outback on the way! First to see will buy. call Joe Smith at 407-555-1212"

See? You're half sold before ya pick up the phone!

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

There's lot of pros and cons.

It depends on how you use the car etc... and your needs. If you drive nicer cars and drive a TON then a high mile lease is often the only smart way to go.

For me buying my personal cars is foolish.

Buying a Jaguar S-Type is foolish. Leasing it is smart.

Leasing a Lexus LX470 is foolish, buying it is smart.

Bill

qbrozen · August 2001

Wow! 17K?? Is that only because of the stick? I've seen a large number of automatics around and the LOWEST I've seen is $20K (ranging all the way up to $25!). The number they had on that green one was $21,800. We are talking about the T5, right? Man, now I REALLY want to find one! Maybe I'll go test drive an automatic just to make sure I like the car before I kill myself trying to find a stick.

laurakat · August 2001

Nah, I don't hate you! I appreciate your honesty.

I'll probably sell it myself. I'm going to try the dealer first to see what I can get. What have I got to lose, right? If they don't get me what I need for the Intrepid, I'll just walk and try to sell myself. Afterall, it's not like I'm driving a car that's falling apart and I NEED a new one. Worst case senario is I drive the Intrepid for a couple more years and hope it doesn't cause major repair headaches! It's running pretty damn good right now.

By the way, it's not the ES and the wheels are stock. Edmunds lists 'polycast' wheels as an upgrade? They're not plastic wheel covers, but I don't think they are alloys either. They do look sharp on the car. I didn't buy it new, so I'm not sure if they were standard on this model year.

Later,
Mike.

im_brentwood · August 2001

Nah... Sticks are worth less but I can buy em for $15Kish... give or take about $800. and that's with lowish miles.

That's assuming I could find one! I have a frind who is patiently waiting for me to find a Silver one. Might take 60 days or so if I had to find a nice one... Irrespective, they're out there. Wholesale on S70s has crashed quite a bit what with the S60s out and all... The Autos are doing about another $1,000 or so. Weird thing is, every once in a while you'll see a stick do a lot... Not the hottest car out there but sometimes you get a couple of dealers who might have a customer for it...

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

Gotcha.

Sounds like a base car with some options (Which actually doesnt change much pricewise)... Frankly, its' not going to get very much lower valuewise. Driving the wheels off of it wont hurt it that much valuewise (Figure a 95 with 150K is a $2K or so car wholesale?)

Glad yer not angry at me!

Bill

lancerfixer · August 2001

Thought I'd let you guys know about this one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593947350

goral · August 2001

Ok, I am slowly running out of cars...

'98 BMW M3 4dr, 5speed, Black on Black, 35K miles, fully loaded (including heated seats, HK sound, CD changer, sunroof, etc...). Located in Chicago area...
What do these go for at the auctions???
Thanx!

qbrozen · August 2001

well, too bad I can't trade in my lease to Ebay. Otherwise, I'd be all over that. Looks great in black!

Thanks for the info., Bill. I'm going to go out and test drive an automatic this weekend. At least I can find out if its the car I really want. If it is, then I'll have to put the word out for a manual tranny and see what happens.

goral · August 2001

Ok, I am slowly running out of cars...

'98 BMW M3 4dr, 5speed, Black on Black, 35K miles, fully loaded (including heated seats, HK sound, CD changer, sunroof, etc...). Located in Chicago area...
What do these go for at the auctions???
Thanx!

rroyce10 · August 2001

.......... After 5 days in the Ozarks and 11 in Costa Rica, ( and 2 auctions on wednesday, thursday )I'm feeling pretty relaxed ----

Hi Bill, how are you...?

Well, it doesn't surprise me I open the site --- and BANG..! There's goral, still shopping for a vehicles .....l.....o.....l.....

Ok slick, here you go --- in the Chi-town area ... black M3's with all the goodies-- and the handshaker, knee deep in rubber, no parking lot kisses, and could pass for a 2000 .... are running in and around that $26,000ish neighborhood ...

We need to get you into a vehicle....

I hope this will help for the 1,439 time --- l...o...l....

Terry.

goral · August 2001

Tell me about it

My current car ('91 Legend) is pretty much sold, and I am still looking for a car!!! AAAHHHH!!!!!

rroyce10 · August 2001

..... These are funny little vehicles, and depending where you live will make a difference on it's value. It's a LT, with V6 and all the toy's so that's a big help .... is this a 2wd or a 4WD ...?

If it's a 4WD and 8K, you are in and around $15ish ..

Terry.

qbrozen · August 2001

Welcome back, Terry.

OK, guys. More on the T5. I found a V70 T5 5-spd, with all the trimmins, nearby. I'm going to check it out tomorrow. Its got 47K miles and is that nice metallic charcoal color. So, what's the deal I should be looking for?

As a matter of fact, here it is.

At $25K, its WAY overpriced as it is. I don't know if I'll get him into the ballpark, but we'll see. What do you think?

rroyce10 · August 2001

...... Well thank you my friend.... --- Nice vehicle..

It's the right color, ( a great NJ color ) slider, tunes, wheels etc..

Well, you know me --- it's got the kiss of death -- it's a meat clever... Tuff to sell to any hard core Volvo buyer, or anyone else.

But, still a great vehicle -- they must have taken this on trade -- or -- bought it at auction ..and probably got it cheap -- So in my silly little mind, I'm thinkin' ...... the miles are a tinge on the high side for the year ( won't hurt a Volvo ) and the 5-speed is a $1,000 deduct any place on the planet including Tibet ----

Soooo, I wouldn't be afraid of a $21,500 and end at a $22,500 offer -- and don't get weak, the vast amount of mom's or hubbies don't dig cell phones, baseball games, shopping for school clothes and shifting at the same time .... and -- I'm sure, the dealer "quietly" knows that!

I hope this helps...

Terry.

marthaf · August 2001

Hello, I've enjoyed reading and learning from this board.

I would like to know in real money terms what I might expect to get for my 2000 Maxima SE. It is automatic, has sunroof, Bose, sterling mist in color with light gray leather (perfect for hot, hot Georgia). I've had it 19 months but it is just now turning 7,000 miles. It is near perfect in condition, serviced regularly, no fender-benders.

I absolutely love this car but I have been able to take an unexpected early retirement and need a vehicle with lots of space for various projects I want to do. The Pathfinder LE seems to be the only vehicle of this type I could get that would allow me to still have a lot of the features that I have come to love in the Maxima. I know these things are also on competitive vehicles but I favor the Nissan sunroofs, stereos, and a multitude of other things. I'm sure there are better SUV's but alas, I cannot afford them. The only thing I dislike is the gas mileage, but quality-wise I think the Pathfinder will last me many years. I test-drove one before I bought the Maxima last year (very impressed) and had a terrible time deciding between them. I went with the Max because I couldn't justify the Pathfinder's additional cost for space I really did not need.

I own the Maxima outright.

Carsdirect quoted
$25,943 (must take delivery by 9-04)for the 2001 Pathfinder LE but I need to trade or sell the Maxima so I can do a cash deal. I hope I can get a good a price from local dealers
but a poor trade figure will probably put the
Pathfinder out of reach. I know that I cannot expect KBB prices but this car is definitely exceptional as a used car. If I sell it myself,
I will be car-less until I find a Pathfinder, so I hope I don't have to go that route. Sales tax here for an outright purchase would run around $1500, whereas trading would be be less than $500 (I hope!) so that is something I would need to consider with private-sale versus trade-in.

I would really appreciate your expert opinions. Thanks for providing such an enlightening and entertaining message board.

im_brentwood · August 2001

I was wondering where you been Terry!

I been busy myself. Got a lot in Maitland, done with the franchises, and working on lot #2 and #3.

You know... After working the numbers... 2 well run lots=Small franchise $$... And no headaches like franchise etc

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2001

Well..

First I have yet to see a carsdirect.com price recently thatcant be at least equalled by printing it out and walking into a local dealership. Sometimes they are quite high I have noticed (Especially on Luxury cars).

Now, on to the Maxima... I think $17,500 +/- $500 or so is what it is worth. Or, pop it on the AJC for $20,950/bo and see what happens.

Hope this helps!

Bill

rroyce10 · August 2001

....... Well, Congrats --- I had a feeling that you might be making a move in the near future..

I think you will enjoy it, and find it to be a lot more fun -- and a lot less brain damage...l...o...l...

Plus, give you some time at the auctions, and give you just a little better feel of what's rolling, reading auctions reports can keep you a little stale....

I'm sure you will do well ....!

Again ...Congrat's

Terry.

rroyce10 · August 2001

.... Speaking of stale .. l...o...l..

If it's a "clean to the bone" 2000 SE, and it has only 7,000 miles, with all the stuff ( roof, wheels, auto etc ..Plus it's the right color ) this vehicle will do a strong $18,000/$18,500+ at the auction.
SE's with some parking lot kisses and 15/20K are doing $17,500+...

I'm sure this will help..

Terry.

qbrozen · August 2001

ok, guys. went to check out the T5. Drove both a sedan with the auto. and the wagon with the stick. The short is that I want to go with the auto sedan. This one is red, fully loaded, with 35K.

Now, I went on Galves and priced this sucker out and came up with something like $17,600. I went in with that number in mind and offered $19K to start (they were asking $24K). Anyway, after a little dance, the gentleman pulls out the "black book" and hands it over to me. This, according to him, is what they go by. Sure enough, this little book is showing about $20K. Since he handed it to me, I then quickly turned to the page that contained my 626 trade-in. This book showed it at $2500 more than Galves.

So, now I'm thinking "fine, $2K more for his, $2K more for mine, it all balances out." Problem here is that I have a strong feeling that his estimate of mine is going to "miraculously" come in at the lower number supported by Galves.

I'm going back tomorrow to get my car "appraised," and talk about numbers.

So, can you please help me out on this one. Is this black book for real? I hear you guys talking about a black book, but yours usually seems to coincide with Galves. What is this one that he's using?? Is he trying to pull one over on me or what? I don't exactly remember what the title of the book was, but I made a note of the website "blackbookusa.com".

I also find it a little strange that Terry's estimation of this car is a little more inline with the black book, while Bill's is more inline with Galves. What's going on here, guys? As an experiment, Terry, what say you on a '99 Mazda 626 LX-V6 automatic with 40K miles in Metallic Mint Green (they call it "meadow green") in Jersey? I know what Bill's number will be.

Thanks to both of you for any help.

goral · August 2001

I may be going to the auction this week and I need some info... I don't want to spend more than $16-$17K on the car, and I want one of these (all hand shakers

) - Audi A4, BMW 318/323/328, and VW Passat. Which model years/models can I expect to get in this price range? I would prefer something w/ low to average miles, since I drive ~25K/year and rather well equipped.
Thanx!

SEVENPIN · August 2001

What is it worth?Dark red/tan,30K,Bose sound,slider,not a ding or scratch on it.Indiana car.
PS Whats it worth without the slider?
Thanks Olds Boy

rroyce10 · August 2001

.... Well gb, it sounds like you are a little frustrated --- to say the least ---

But, it's pretty easy stuff..if.. you get the right information.

The Galves book is a kinda like the regional weather report, it kinda means something to the people 145 miles to the north and not too much to the folks 63 miles south ... it's kinda of a off beat semi-accurate report..period.

There is really isn't much creedence to it.

Black books are the most accurate --- "IF" --- you know how to read them .... and that my friend, comes from experience.

Reading auction reports is a good start, but the best way is to be at auctions on a continual basis --- When I first got in the business, most of the Used car managers were going to the auctions 3/4 times a year... and they really didn't "know" what the value of a used vehicle, was really worth --- and either did I, I was new in the bz.

But I learned fast when I was promoted to a GSM back in 87. I was at all the auctions in FL, Ga and the Carolina's -- I have flown to Denver in January to buy Caddy's, been in Boston to purchase Bimmers in February, drove to Tennessee in march to buy Suv's ...

Soooooo, it's ok to read the books, but you do have to know the difference of what they say --- and what they mean..on the "real market"

But anyway, to answer your question --- what's it worth.... this high mileage 626 V6 LX...?

They are doing in and around $9500/$10,000ish, ( I watched about 30 run through) -- that's of last thursday, at Harrisburg(Manheim) just down the street from Philly were over 3,500 imports ran --- the largest in the country, which I go to about 30 times a year....

I hope this helps..

Terry.

rroyce10 · August 2001

....... How are you...? Long time know hear...!

Right now, the Aurora's are probably the "best buy" on the domestic sport sedan market. Lot's of vehicle, lot's of giddy-up, and you can get them pretty darn cheap, with a great warranty --- So, all toyed up, leather heated seats, clean to the bone , Bose, moon and the chromes and around 30 klicks will maybe do around $14,000 at the auctions...
The word here being -maybe- so at least, you have an idea...

Terry.

Real-World Trade-In Values

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