It can be realistic on some cars, much as kbb.com can be.
I can remember that back in 99 (last time I used it) that I could generally buy Accords at auction within Galves, as well as Jaguars.
Volvos? No way!!!!
Just deends on the car. Now, auction results are generally not available to the public.. But.. Hmm.. aside from knowing how to use a Black Book it is pretty tough.
Appraisal itself is something that few dealers I see even seem to get right.
Hey guys, thanks for all your help. Could I get your opinion on what my car would be worth as trade and retail? It's a black 95 BMW 325i, Sport package, 5 spd., five spoke wheels, trip computer, sunroof, cd changer, tan leather interior, basically every option except traction control, all service since new done at dealer and on time. It's very clean, no dings, the leather is a little worn on the driver's seat. It's got 67k. Never wrecked. I'm in Dallas.
gbrozen, I don't do that, I am always as up front as I can be, just seems like the nice guys that tell the truth end up loosing the deals. Give you another example, customer phone shooping every dealer in town for a price on a vehicle, you can either lowball him like someone else defintely will do to get them in or you can tell them a real price that is fair to both and they tell you you are way too high based on what they already have been told and he goes to the guy that lowablled him. This is nothing new I have been selling for a long time now, just irks me sometimes.
Justin, I'd peg your car at about $13,500-14K depending on me eyeballing it. That's assuming no paintwork..etc.. and it being otherwise nice.
BMWs are good merchandise, and if its' clean, I'd pop it in the paper/autotrader for $16,950/bo with a well-worded ad and see what happens.
Hope this helps!
Ray, when it comes to that I am generally thanking them for their time, saying something like "Well, I'm sorry that this couldnt work out for us, but please keep us in mind and have a nice day!"
I don't get into battles with customers.. nobody wins.
......... First and foremost, when dealers are at the auctions, they are there as rule ..to buy vehicles. Also there is a large minority that is there to sell there "batch" of 40/60/90 day units, that for -whatever- reason they just didn't sell off there lot's.
It's not what the books say --- it how to "read them correctly" --- I have run into a hundred or so dealers from NJ, NY etc at the Manheim Pa, it's the largest in the country, almost 13,000 vehicles ran today. And I get dealers that will come up to me and say "Hey, Terry, what's a 99 VW GLX V-6 worth, or Hey - what's a 98 Buick Lesabre Limited worth, with 28K.... etc, etc, etc, ..
They have a Galves in one hand, a Black book in another and a NADA in there mouth -- That my friend, is from nothing more -- or, nothing less, than a lack of experience ...
Galves is the lowest common denominator in the "world of reality" -- Like I have said before, do some dealers use them -- of course -- maybe to intimidate a consumer, or brag to the dealer principal, how the prices were "going out of the book" so that's why they couldn't buy anything last week or this week..blah, blah, blah ...
It is all on the "actual time" spent at the auctions --- not the "auction reports". There is no pretty pictures when you receive them - just numbers, miles and options -- Because you need to be there, to feel, touch and smell the vehicles --- That's how you find out how much particular vehicles are worth.
I have a friend in Florida that his dad has been losing a bunch of money in the last few years in his Nissan store. And I was asked to fly to Allenton Pa. to "kinda look around" and give my humble opinion. They have a Used car Manager that hasn't been to a auction in 6 months, a GSM that that doesn't have a clue, because he hasn't been to one -ever-. They have all the books, reports etc.. But, they don't know how to read them corectly. So, the appraisels are done on a "wing and prayer" and the Galves book is what determines the final number --- OK..!
A trade comes in ( a 98 Nissan Altima GXE, loaded, w/30K, clean to the bone, needs nothing but a new owner ), they hit it at $8,000 and wonder (after a 2 hr negotiation) why the consumer is walking out. I saw 18 deals worked that way, that saturday -- and they only sold 4.
Soooooo, We go out to a nice dinner that evening -- and they ask me for my stupid opinion. --- It's pretty easy, It seems like your information that your are "perceiving" is incorrect -- You can't use a Galves to appraise vehicles, the MARKET appraises the vehicles. Putting $8,000 in a $9,500 vehicle just doesn't get it. Especially when you can take that vehicle, to the auction tommorow and pull $10,000 ---- It didn't take them long then, to figure out why sales were down 28%.
The other night, Bill figures a Volvo coupe HT for like $20,000ish --- But, the reality is, the CLEAN ones, are doing "around" dead "average" in the Black Book, which is in and around $23,000 plus a Nick or so --- So, I understand the frustrations of a consumer like, gb...
Personally I recently got stuck with a C70 so I'm skeptical of them. People I know with em cant move em either...
Still, very good point on Galves.
Example: Guy walks into the Jag dealership,wants to trade an F250 in on an XJ8 (happened in 98).
Do we WANT that on the lot parked next to the Volvos and Jags? uhhh... So now I got this F250 4WD in Northeastern NJ. Wonderful. etc..etc...
Dealer in, say, Western PA goes to the sale... he NEEDS an F250...etc etc etc etc.
Galves, like anything else, is a guide. Like KBB it originally came out as a "What MC Galves and Co will pay for a car" price list...
Recently I was at a sale and I needed a car for a friend of mine. He HAD to have a BMW 528i THAT WEEK (His had been totalled). It HAD to be Silver. It HAD to be a 98 with 30K or less on it... The Galves # didnt buy that car either. And good call on appraising out of a book too.
Where should a 98 Hi-Line car with 55K on the clock be at? Rough Bookish, right?
Try buying a 55K Smoke Silver 98 E320 for rough book.
Meanwhile, appraise a 98 Vanden Plas with that on it at rough book and see how far underwater you are!
Well, so I guess you're saying that a consumer stands a snowball's chance in hell of having any idea what their car is worth when they walk into a dealership. Guess its good we have this board, huh? I'll just hope we're all still here when its time to trade in my Volvo on a 2005 Alfa Romeo.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
How about a 99 Miata? 5sp, white, cloth, A/C, alloys, CD, pw, pl. 27,000 miles. Soft top only. Very clean condition, a couple door dings. Nice interior.
I said I saw a couple that were a bit edgy do $20Kish.. I figure it for $21K or so if I have to go and buy one. I dunno, maybe a little more but.... My bad
They can be pretty tricky to sell. (And I got stuck with one not too long ago so its this mental thing I have)
Heck, I saw a pretty nice Black one do just under $21K on Wed night... Low Pressure but if I remember it had like 20K miles! From where I sit, it looks like Volvos are getting tougher and tougher.
I bought a couple of S70GLTs that were quite a bit ($2K)cheaper than they were even in the Spring...
C70's for $21k...isn't that a $35k car new? Just curious, I'm not that familiar with Volvos but that seems like a pretty big drop. It looks to me that if you are interested in a Volvo you are better off waiting a year or two and then saving several thousand $$$..Correct me if I'm wrong.
Every bit if $35K is well equipped. Heck I think they can push $40K. A High Pressure COnvertible with 3-pc wheelks, surround.. soft leather..etc.. That can creep up closer to $50K!
I am already starting to look for my next car and am leaning towards a Volvo S60..although I do like the looks of the C70 but I think I would have a hard time convincing my fiance to go for the C70. He is happy with his LS400 and Civic so he wants me to get an Acura CL Type S so he can have his cake and eat it too. Men...
I had a price from a local dealer via an email on an accord which was a fine price according to my research. I brought my 97 grand caravan with 90,500 miles to possibly trade. According to my research the trade should have brought at the min (according to galves.com) 7200. I would've accepted 7000 had the deal been right.
I test drive the last LX on the lot, want one, but not that one. It's black (don't want black in florida) has a spoiler and something called gold trim. I tell them I'm in no hurry and would be happy to wait for another 2001 LX to be delivered to their lot. They tell me this is the last one they will have as they are clearing out 2001s, ok fair enough, I'll go check with another dealer. Gentlemen #2 comes in and says, what if I give you a price on the black LX that will make you color-blind? I ask what he has in mind then he asks what number do *I* have in mind. I say 50 dollars. lol. He gives me a number which was something like 100 more than the original price quoted to me AND he'll let me bring it in once a year for a free detailing. I say, well that's pretty darn good, I'll take it. I have him sit down and hand him my calculator and ask him to figure taxes and approx other costs and give me an out the door number. He does, I'm happy with it, I'll take it I say. He says, ok, let me go get it nailed down.
They go appraise my trade, salesman #1 comes back and asks what were you thinking you'd get for your trade? Your best fair offer I say. No really, he says. I ask politely if it wouldn't be too much trouble please do stop jerking me around and just tell me what number he has written on the paper he is holding up to his chest. he shows it to me and it says 5000!!!! I ask him how they arrive at their trade offer, he tells me black book. I have in my file that I brought the black book (or at least I thought it was the black book) figure of 7850, I also show him the galves figure of 7200, I show him the blue book value, the edmunds value, and the nada value. I know that most of these values are inflated, but five thousand dollars??? He tells me I have the wrong black book number, ok, show me your black book I say. Oh no, he says, we can't do that. Why I say? If your black book indeed says 5000, show it to me. No, he says even HE is not allowed to see it, only his manager. Ok, fine I say. How about this, I'm sure I can sell this van on my own for more than 5000, so I'll opt out of trading it in. I'll keep it. Now lets sign the contract for the Honda. Oh, he says, I'll have to get my manager.
Gentleman #2 comes back and says, I'm sorry, my manager says that if you aren't going to trade your van, we can't give you the price on the honda, the lowest we can go is 600 higher. Pardon me? I say. He tells me again. I asked if there was an industry no-trade in penalty that I was unaware of? oh NOOO he says, it's not a penalty, penalty is not what I'd call it at all. I ask do they typically charge more money for people without trade-ins than people with trade-ins? No no no they both say. They explain that I just have to understand that if I'm not trading in my van, then they won't be able to make any money off it, thus, they have to tack it on to the honda..and 600 more is STILL a really good price because you're getting a SPOILER and gold TRIM. I tell them I really don't WANT a spoiler as I don't even know what it IS, and I don't understand why gold letters cost EXTRA because look sort of tacky so it wouldn't bother me a bit if they just took them off, and I'll live with it being black, since they've made me such a great offer and all. Then man #2 says, let me talk to my manager and see if he'll come down.
He comes back and says, manager will come down 400, (now the car is 200 over the original price given to me by email). NO I say. You guys gave me a good price via email, I came down prepared to buy an LX accord. You did not have an acceptable one on the lot and of your own free will YOU gave me a LOWER price on a car that I did NOT want in a color I DONT like in the hopes that I would accept that car. I DID. Now YOU are telling me that I'M going to just have to go a little HIGHER? and incredibly, he says YES, it's only 200 dollars, that's hardly ANYTHING with respect to what you're getting. I told him that is why I don't understand why his manager won't honor his salesman's original offer, because it's ONLY 200 dollars. I asked for my key back and told them that their efforts would be better spent on someone who is willing to pay the higher price for the car. And I left, and they let me.
Am I wrong, or did they really try to do a number on me. I was SO mad when I left there. I thought the whole point of inquiring over the internet was to AVOID this sort of thing. ARgh! Is there any way to verify this 5000.00 black book figure ?
Glad you walked. From where I sit you did the right thing.
May I suggest some mistakes ya need to avoid the next time tho?
1) You were going to buy a car that you did not like. Bad idea. Now c'mon.. its a lot of money, right? Get what ya WANT! Black is kinda hot here, and a PITA to keep clean.
2) You let em jerk ya around. A lot. I'd have walked out sooner myself. One of the biggest delights in my life is buying new cars retail for a family business that I have a stake in. Amazing what ya can learn..
3) You let them bump you. That's also a bad idea. In my opinion, if they quote you $X on Y Car, then that's what they ought to honor. If they were that low on Inventory they should have said so upfront.
As far as $5K.. Unless its' been previously bent in half... That's awfully light, althougha 90K mile Grand Caravan is going to, in all honesty, get some light bids. I'm not sure I;d want to be in it at $7K but I dont think I'd slap $5K on it either. Feel free to e-mail me, I'm usually at work just up the road from them (Lake ave @ 17/92 next to the Texaco) and will be happy to take a peek at your vehicle for you. You need to find a new dealer. Seriously.
(Disclaimer: I dont sell Hondas and In your case sounds like a new one is the way to go
Purchasing a toyota highlander. Dealer discounting 2200 off msrp. Trading a 1999 Chev Blazer LT with moonroof 34000 miles Dealer will give 14788 in trade Kelley Blue Book says thuis is in the ballpark but NADA and Edmunds TMV seemmuch higher 14788 allowance is after the 2200 discount on highlander limited v6 4wd My blazer is also 4wd Am i being ripped off on the Blazer allowance? Thanks much!
But I can go out and buy a blazer 4x4 '99 with 30k on the clock for about 16500 certified. I would say it is a very good trade. I can get an edgy blazer for lower than what they are offering you.
We all follow your information at work. They call you the "Tony Soprano" of the the auto link. Now my wife and I are trying to trade our vehicles, and I dont feel we are getting the right numbers. I have a Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet with 16,000 miles. It's white with the blue interior and matching top. Its in the garage when not being driven, all the service has been done, it looks new. The MB dealers we have been to are saying around $40,000. My wifes car, a 740Il with 25K plantinum with grey interior is in better shape than my car, and they are thinking $25,000.
Gosh... this thread has gotten awfully upscale these days. I'm trying to help out some neighbors. Where would you hit the above-mentioned van: 93K miles, light blue in NH?
(I was surprised to find that a dealer was willing to give them KBB "good" value until I noticed that he was working down from sticker on an '01! If Edmunds TMV is to be believed, even invoice is too high!)
....... It's a LT, right..? So you have leather, overhead console, dual air, sport wheels etc .. and it's probably 2 two tone blue -- and most of all it's a AWD. I would have to think in "New Hamp-shaa" it will move pretty well.
IF, this blue beauty, is knee deep in rubber and shows limited wear, there is no click- click in the AWD, and it shows like a 99 -- the only thing that will hurt this vehicle is the miles. I would have to think in your area that there is a strong market for this type of vehicle, but Bill likes this one, more than I ( only because of the miles ) Soooo, I'm thinkin' this vehicle is worth in and around $4/$5,000 "real money" - But, I will be interested what the outcome is.
..... That wasn't a bad price ( a little more than average ) on the Bimmer - but, I have a feeling that you are looking for a super clean vehicle..and there is nothing wrong with that.
The next time you go, just be prepared to pay "clean" to "xtra clean" in the black book. that's what they pull, if it has all the books and keys, no or limited parking lot kisses and the vehicle "shows" new.
....... The C70's are great vehicles. It's not the vehicle -- it's the type of vehicle.
I think we talked about this with a Toyota Solara guy about 2 months ago.
All the coupes, Acura, Toyota, Volvo etc make a great product. It's that the market is smaller and it's trying to adjust to the difference. As far as the C70's are concerned I love em'. When I sold the Benz, I took a C70 for a driver for about 3,000 miles and loved it. Going from a Benz coupe, to a 2000 C70 wasn't much of a difference as far as ride and quality, and a "much better" value for the money --- But, that's just my stupid opinion.
I guess you wouldn't know I was a CPA by trade by forgetting those important numbers. The MB is a 99 and like new, we have it detailed by my brother about 4 times a year, as well as the Bimmer that is a 98. It's a nonsport.
....... Well lets see -- "IF" this Benz is "cleaner than the board of health" --and -- "twice as sanitary" with all the service records ... and again, without all the fast food express scenario going for it -- and the parking lot kisses are down to about 2 dimes that would be missed on the first walk around --- Then, you have a great vehicle for trade or retail sale.
I had the coupe for a while, and loved it ... But anyway, if the Benz dealers are saying $40ish on this 99, then they need to be thinkin' about the high side of $45ish --- it's the right color ( not my favorite ) and these do sell quickly and it has no miles, and fall is still a ways away in KC .. Go Chiefs ..!
Again, super nice and clean vehicles ... like this 740IL ( if your info is correct ) will pull the long dollar. It's the right color that's for sure, and no miles -- So if it's a "Stand tall" 98, with it looking like a 2000 from the tires on up -- I'm thinkin' it's a $36,000 vehicle and maybe a little more -- I'm thinkin' your $25,000 is a miss print...? --- meant to say -- $35,000 ... ?
Yesterday's Phila. Inquirer had an article about the Manheim folks. I don't remember all the figures, but the volume of cars they have on the lot and run through the place is staggering. Something about one auctioneer doing 100 cars in an hour?
The real point of the article is that the Manheim folks need to expand, and are looking at the farm next door (230+ acres), which is giving some of the local farmers fits, even though the auction keeps the whole town afloat. Supposedly they will pull out if they can't expand.
Of course, this has nothing to do with real world prices, but since Terry mentions Manheim quite frequently, thought everyone might be interested.
I'm with you, maybe $1K back of you onthe CLK but I'm right there.
I'd hit the car at $45K and I'd bet that a MB Dealer has people waiting in line to buy it for $49,995.
You're in KC... hmm... Try calling Motorcars Intl in Springfield, I bet they'd be all over the CLK. It is a great color (I also dont like it.. but then I hate Topaz and White on Jags. My preference is British Racing Green which is probably the worst color..haha)
I recently bought a Black 99 Ragtop for a dealer in NY for $45,500. It had 25K miles if that helps (Up there Black is good tho). He was tickled pink.
Its' worth $40K if it has like 35-40K miles and a few stone chips or bug marks.
On to the Big BMW:
I'd say that if the 740iL is *_perfect_* and I mean perfect as in park it next to a new one and you'd be hard pressed to tell perfect... I think $36-37K is what it is worth top of the market... I'd personally appraise it on trade at $34,500-35K. I'm a little leery of 740iLs myself tho... New car is about to hit and there's $10K in the trunk of the 01s... I'd say sell it now, as I have a feeling they are about to tank in a big way, much as the 92-99 Bodystyle late-model S-Classes did last year.
If they are thinking $25,000 for a 25,000 mile 1998 740iL in silver in perfect shape... Then either the car has a salvage title and has been flooded..etc.. or they are trying to rob the living hell out of you. It's worth that if its' got like 70K or so on it.
I'm hoping you can help me out here. I am planning on trading in my beloved 2000 VW Passat 1.8T, details as follows:
Satin Silver Black Leather interior tint 5 speed Monsoon w/in-dash CD Luxury package (moonroof, alloys, etc.) 19,600 miles very, very clean
It's a great car, but I'm getting married and my fiance can't drive a stick (tried to teach her once -- never again...) I test-drove a 2001.5 GLX V6 with auto, but the power just wasn't there.
So, I'm planning on trading it for a 2002 Acura TL Type S with nav, as I just can't find a better bang for the buck (also had great luck with Integras for 10 years).
What can I expect on the trade, considering that both of these are pretty hot cars at the moment? Also, is the TL likley to hold it's residual better than the RL's Acura has been dumping? I'm in Texas, if that matters.
Thanks again for providing this terrific service. Last time I posted about a near-new 20th Anniv. Max SE: you suggested values of $22 - 23K; the dealer stuck to $24K so I passed. Shortly thereafter the car sold for $25.4 to a family that bought it and two others! BTW I found out they took it in at $22K so nice profit for them.
Today I'm curious about this one, being sold by a private party in Atlanta: 2000 Maxima SE Sterling Mist (Silver) 5-speed Bose Sunroof 24K miles Great condition. What's a fair offer for me to make?
While I'm at it, how about a value on the car I'm replacing: 1995 Cadillac STS Black/Black leather chrome wheels Bose Heated Seats 82K miles Great shape but minor paintwork. My dealer-buddy offered $10.5K on trade and says I should take $12K if I can get it selling it myself.
I realize I'm coming in low-end with all the MB, Maxima and Acura questions out there, but a nice fellow named Larry (protegextwo) on the Neon board suggested I (politely) consult the experts around here; so here I am. I'm looking for a used car and I've been doing my homework on what's available for $4,500-$5,000 that will get me around Washington DC and on short weekend day trips to the beach and what not. Reliability is obviously high on my list of features, but I've been struck by how much Neon owners really love driving their cars. I've been looking closely at the 95 and 96 Neons that appear to be in my price range, but I've been scared toward the 97s and 98s because of the head gasket, leaky trunk, air noise and poor fit and finish issues that seem disproportionately to fall into the laps of owners of the 95 and 96 models. I'm going to look at a Jeep dealership in the DC area that has a 2 dr, 5 speed 99 Neon with minimal to decent features (AC, ABS, no power locks or windows) with 55,000 miles on it for $6,900. High miles for a 99, but better, I think, than a 96 with similar miles for $2,000 less and an old model head gasket. I don't want to make payments and I can probably top out at $5,300. I'm really wondering what my options are as far as the Neon I can get into for $4,500-$5,300 (I don't want an automatic and I don't care about the "finer" options, just AC, really). Can I really offer $2,000 less than the asking price and expect to deal from there? And should I be looking at something other than a Neon? Thanks in advance for the advice. I already feel like I'm going into the whole thing armed with a decent amount of knowledge thanks to you all. Take care -jeremy
Also: I'm trying to figure out what to do with the 88 Jeep Comanchee pickup that I bought 3 years ago for $1,500 bucks and now has 180,000 miles on it after I drove it from Texas to Minnesota to DC to MN again and back to DC. I've definitely got my money out of it, it drops more oil than a Texas politician, the driver's side door doesn't open from the outside, the tail lights just went out (electrical problem) and it's blue book is like $500 tops. I don't know if a charity would even want this thing. How do I get rid of it?
austin: Do what my fiance did when he couldn't stand to teach me how to drive a stick. We bought the car, he stayed at home and I went out at 3 AM (no traffic) to learn how to drive it. It worked..now I almost refuse to drive anything else. It's worth a shot..just make sure your insurance is up to date.
I'm thinking like... hmm... $18,500-19,500 or so..
Figure it could do $17K atsale... so take it from there....
$10,500is strong onthe Caddy IMHO. I just saw your car in Peal White with 87K miles in a 94 do like $8,200 IIRC today... Sooo..You're getting a lot at 10,500.
$12K is reasonable retail. It certainly should sell for that.
Do used prices tend to drop steadily, or do they drop sharply at different times and then level off for a while? Is it seasonal?
Reason I asked is that my boss asked me today if I had noticed that prices had dropped significantly in the last few months. He had bought a '95 Maxima and '97ish Explorer recently, and seemed to think that equivilant cars were much cheaper now (like 13K vs. 9-10K).
..... It will do a strong $17,500/$18,000+ ( as long as it is as "clean" as you say it is ). These vehicles are very popular .. -- .. and even with a handshaker ( yuk ) it will sell to some nut case, that want's to spend his life shifting gears, eating pastachio's and talking on the cell phone at the same time ... l....o....l..
Your right, the Acura is a "Great" vehicle, lot's of *Ka-Bang* for the buck, you won't see a service department -- and the re-sale is super
....... Yep, I think $19,500 would be the "End of the World".
I like the Maxima's .. but, the risk to the present owner is : he has dwindled his market by 70% because, it's a stick --- If, he isn't aware of that fact, he will be in about 4/5 weeks when his ad is still running, and he has lowered his price a couple of times ....
If - you can get that kind of $$ for the Seville -Grab it..!
They are nice vehicles , but plentiful. 1998's with all the stuff and 27/28K are doing just around the $20ish figure, perhaps this will give you an idea ...
Comments
It can be realistic on some cars, much as kbb.com can be.
I can remember that back in 99 (last time I used it) that I could generally buy Accords at auction within Galves, as well as Jaguars.
Volvos? No way!!!!
Just deends on the car. Now, auction results are generally not available to the public.. But.. Hmm.. aside from knowing how to use a Black Book it is pretty tough.
Appraisal itself is something that few dealers I see even seem to get right.
Bill
"Kelly Blue Book says my trade is worth $7,550"
Uhh...
About half of the time showing them auction reports helps a lot... it shows them reality.
Bill
I'm in Dallas.
Thanks a million
I don't do that, I am always as up front as I can be, just seems like the nice guys that tell the truth end up loosing the deals. Give you another example, customer phone shooping every dealer in town for a price on a vehicle, you can either lowball him like someone else defintely will do to get them in or you can tell them a real price that is fair to both and they tell you you are way too high based on what they already have been told and he goes to the guy that lowablled him. This is nothing new I have been selling for a long time now, just irks me sometimes.
BMWs are good merchandise, and if its' clean, I'd pop it in the paper/autotrader for $16,950/bo with a well-worded ad and see what happens.
Hope this helps!
Ray, when it comes to that I am generally thanking them for their time, saying something like "Well, I'm sorry that this couldnt work out for us, but please keep us in mind and have a nice day!"
I don't get into battles with customers.. nobody wins.
Bill
It's not what the books say --- it how to "read them correctly" --- I have run into a hundred or so dealers from NJ, NY etc at the Manheim Pa, it's the largest in the country, almost 13,000 vehicles ran today. And I get dealers that will come up to me and say "Hey, Terry, what's a 99 VW GLX V-6 worth, or Hey - what's a 98 Buick Lesabre Limited worth, with 28K.... etc, etc, etc, ..
They have a Galves in one hand, a Black book in another and a NADA in there mouth -- That my friend, is from nothing more -- or, nothing less, than a lack of experience ...
Galves is the lowest common denominator in the "world of reality" -- Like I have said before, do some dealers use them -- of course -- maybe to intimidate a consumer, or brag to the dealer principal, how the prices were "going out of the book" so that's why they couldn't buy anything last week or this week..blah, blah, blah ...
It is all on the "actual time" spent at the auctions --- not the "auction reports". There is no pretty pictures when you receive them - just numbers, miles and options -- Because you need to be there, to feel, touch and smell the vehicles --- That's how you find out how much particular vehicles are worth.
I have a friend in Florida that his dad has been losing a bunch of money in the last few years in his Nissan store. And I was asked to fly to Allenton Pa. to "kinda look around" and give my humble opinion.
They have a Used car Manager that hasn't been to a auction in 6 months, a GSM that that doesn't have a clue, because he hasn't been to one -ever-. They have all the books, reports etc.. But, they don't know how to read them corectly. So, the appraisels are done on a "wing and prayer" and the Galves book is what determines the final number --- OK..!
A trade comes in ( a 98 Nissan Altima GXE, loaded, w/30K, clean to the bone, needs nothing but a new owner ), they hit it at $8,000 and wonder (after a 2 hr negotiation) why the consumer is walking out.
I saw 18 deals worked that way, that saturday -- and they only sold 4.
Soooooo, We go out to a nice dinner that evening -- and they ask me for my stupid opinion. --- It's pretty easy, It seems like your information that your are "perceiving" is incorrect -- You can't use a Galves to appraise vehicles, the MARKET appraises the vehicles. Putting $8,000 in a $9,500 vehicle just doesn't get it. Especially when you can take that vehicle, to the auction tommorow and pull $10,000 ---- It didn't take them long then, to figure out why sales were down 28%.
The other night, Bill figures a Volvo coupe HT for like $20,000ish --- But, the reality is, the CLEAN ones, are doing "around" dead "average" in the Black Book, which is in and around $23,000 plus a Nick or so --- So, I understand the frustrations of a consumer like, gb...
Maybe, just maybe, this may help ...
Terry.
Personally I recently got stuck with a C70 so I'm skeptical of them. People I know with em cant move em either...
Still, very good point on Galves.
Example: Guy walks into the Jag dealership,wants to trade an F250 in on an XJ8 (happened in 98).
Do we WANT that on the lot parked next to the Volvos and Jags? uhhh... So now I got this F250 4WD in Northeastern NJ. Wonderful. etc..etc...
Dealer in, say, Western PA goes to the sale... he NEEDS an F250...etc etc etc etc.
Galves, like anything else, is a guide. Like KBB it originally came out as a "What MC Galves and Co will pay for a car" price list...
Recently I was at a sale and I needed a car for a friend of mine. He HAD to have a BMW 528i THAT WEEK (His had been totalled). It HAD to be Silver. It HAD to be a 98 with 30K or less on it... The Galves # didnt buy that car either. And good call on appraising out of a book too.
Where should a 98 Hi-Line car with 55K on the clock be at? Rough Bookish, right?
Try buying a 55K Smoke Silver 98 E320 for rough book.
Meanwhile, appraise a 98 Vanden Plas with that on it at rough book and see how far underwater you are!
Bill
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
How about a 99 Miata? 5sp, white, cloth, A/C, alloys, CD, pw, pl. 27,000 miles. Soft top only. Very clean condition, a couple door dings. Nice interior.
Dealer is offering $14800. In Maine.
They can be pretty tricky to sell. (And I got stuck with one not too long ago so its this mental thing I have)
Heck, I saw a pretty nice Black one do just under $21K on Wed night... Low Pressure but if I remember it had like 20K miles! From where I sit, it looks like Volvos are getting tougher and tougher.
I bought a couple of S70GLTs that were quite a bit ($2K)cheaper than they were even in the Spring...
Bill
I dont see why you cant get it down to $14K and then you're getting a deal.
Bill
Yup, they are a much better buy used.
Bill
I bought a couple of S70GLTs that were quite a bit ($2K)cheaper than they were even in the Spring..."
Music to my ears. lol.
Mark
I test drive the last LX on the lot, want one, but not that one. It's black (don't want black in florida) has a spoiler and something called gold trim. I tell them I'm in no hurry and would be happy to wait for another 2001 LX to be delivered to their lot. They tell me this is the last one they will have as they are clearing out 2001s, ok fair enough, I'll go check with another dealer. Gentlemen #2 comes in and says, what if I give you a price on the black LX that will make you color-blind? I ask what he has in mind then he asks what number do *I* have in mind. I say 50 dollars. lol. He gives me a number which was something like 100 more than the original price quoted to me AND he'll let me bring it in once a year for a free detailing. I say, well that's pretty darn good, I'll take it. I have him sit down and hand him my calculator and ask him to figure taxes and approx other costs and give me an out the door number. He does, I'm happy with it, I'll take it I say. He says, ok, let me go get it nailed down.
They go appraise my trade, salesman #1 comes back and asks what were you thinking you'd get for your trade? Your best fair offer I say. No really, he says. I ask politely if it wouldn't be too much trouble please do stop jerking me around and just tell me what number he has written on the paper he is holding up to his chest. he shows it to me and it says 5000!!!! I ask him how they arrive at their trade offer, he tells me black book. I have in my file that I brought the black book (or at least I thought it was the black book) figure of 7850, I also show him the galves figure of 7200, I show him the blue book value, the edmunds value, and the nada value. I know that most of these values are inflated, but five thousand dollars??? He tells me I have the wrong black book number, ok, show me your black book I say. Oh no, he says, we can't do that. Why I say? If your black book indeed says 5000, show it to me. No, he says even HE is not allowed to see it, only his manager. Ok, fine I say. How about this, I'm sure I can sell this van on my own for more than 5000, so I'll opt out of trading it in. I'll keep it. Now lets sign the contract for the Honda. Oh, he says, I'll have to get my manager.
Gentleman #2 comes back and says, I'm sorry, my manager says that if you aren't going to trade your van, we can't give you the price on the honda, the lowest we can go is 600 higher. Pardon me? I say. He tells me again. I asked if there was an industry no-trade in penalty that I was unaware of? oh NOOO he says, it's not a penalty, penalty is not what I'd call it at all. I ask do they typically charge more money for people without trade-ins than people with trade-ins? No no no they both say. They explain that I just have to understand that if I'm not trading in my van, then they won't be able to make any money off it, thus, they have to tack it on to the honda..and 600 more is STILL a really good price because you're getting a SPOILER and gold TRIM. I tell them I really don't WANT a spoiler as I don't even know what it IS, and I don't understand why gold letters cost EXTRA because look sort of tacky so it wouldn't bother me a bit if they just took them off, and I'll live with it being black, since they've made me such a great offer and all. Then man #2 says, let me talk to my manager and see if he'll come down.
He comes back and says, manager will come down 400, (now the car is 200 over the original price given to me by email). NO I say. You guys gave me a good price via email, I came down prepared to buy an LX accord. You did not have an acceptable one on the lot and of your own free will YOU gave me a LOWER price on a car that I did NOT want in a color I DONT like in the hopes that I would accept that car. I DID. Now YOU are telling me that I'M going to just have to go a little HIGHER? and incredibly, he says YES, it's only 200 dollars, that's hardly ANYTHING with respect to what you're getting. I told him that is why I don't understand why his manager won't honor his salesman's original offer, because it's ONLY 200 dollars. I asked for my key back and told them that their efforts would be better spent on someone who is willing to pay the higher price for the car. And I left, and they let me.
Am I wrong, or did they really try to do a number on me. I was SO mad when I left there. I thought the whole point of inquiring over the internet was to AVOID this sort of thing. ARgh! Is there any way to verify this 5000.00 black book figure ?
Just the obvious really. Condition..etc...
I personally have a soft spot for them. To me its' what the British Sportscars COULD have been
Bill
Glad you walked. From where I sit you did the right thing.
May I suggest some mistakes ya need to avoid the next time tho?
1) You were going to buy a car that you did not like. Bad idea. Now c'mon.. its a lot of money, right?
2) You let em jerk ya around. A lot. I'd have walked out sooner myself. One of the biggest delights in my life is buying new cars retail for a family business that I have a stake in. Amazing what ya can learn..
3) You let them bump you. That's also a bad idea. In my opinion, if they quote you $X on Y Car, then that's what they ought to honor. If they were that low on Inventory they should have said so upfront.
As far as $5K.. Unless its' been previously bent in half... That's awfully light, althougha 90K mile Grand Caravan is going to, in all honesty, get some light bids. I'm not sure I;d want to be in it at $7K but I dont think I'd slap $5K on it either. Feel free to e-mail me, I'm usually at work just up the road from them (Lake ave @ 17/92 next to the Texaco) and will be happy to take a peek at your vehicle for you. You need to find a new dealer. Seriously.
(Disclaimer: I dont sell Hondas and In your case sounds like a new one is the way to go
Bill
I have no idea on the new highlander market tho.. I'd try the Highlander topics for that.
Bill
Now my wife and I are trying to trade our vehicles, and I dont feel we are getting the right numbers. I have a Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet with 16,000 miles. It's white with the blue interior and matching top.
Its in the garage when not being driven, all the service has been done, it looks new. The MB dealers we have been to are saying around $40,000. My wifes car, a 740Il with 25K plantinum with grey interior is in better shape than my car, and they are thinking $25,000.
Whats up..?
thank you again
Mark + Kathy.
PS. in Kansas City
(I was surprised to find that a dealer was willing to give them KBB "good" value until I noticed that he was working down from sticker on an '01! If Edmunds TMV is to be believed, even invoice is too high!)
I happen to actually know a buyer for the CLK... but...
What yearis it and what options? COMAND? Sport?
Thanks!
Year for the 740iL as wellplease
Bill
Bill
IF, this blue beauty, is knee deep in rubber and shows limited wear, there is no click- click in the AWD, and it shows like a 99 -- the only thing that will hurt this vehicle is the miles. I would have to think in your area that there is a strong market for this type of vehicle, but Bill likes this one, more than I ( only because of the miles ) Soooo, I'm thinkin' this vehicle is worth in and around $4/$5,000 "real money" - But, I will be interested what the outcome is.
Terry.
Tony..errr, I mean Terry, does better with the year and some info --- Or, forget about it -- l..o..l......
Terry.
The next time you go, just be prepared to pay "clean" to "xtra clean" in the black book. that's what they pull, if it has all the books and keys, no or limited parking lot kisses and the vehicle "shows" new.
Terry.
I think we talked about this with a Toyota Solara guy about 2 months ago.
All the coupes, Acura, Toyota, Volvo etc make a great product. It's that the market is smaller and it's trying to adjust to the difference. As far as the C70's are concerned I love em'. When I sold the Benz, I took a C70 for a driver for about 3,000 miles and loved it. Going from a Benz coupe, to a 2000 C70 wasn't much of a difference as far as ride and quality, and a "much better" value for the money --- But, that's just my stupid opinion.
Terry.
Terry.
The MB is a 99 and like new, we have it detailed by my brother about 4 times a year, as well as the Bimmer that is a 98. It's a nonsport.
Thanks again,
Mark.
Bill
My edmunds.com t-shirt
Tie-Dye T-Shirts
My "All I really learned in college" T-Shirt (Pics of Beer bottles on it)
Various Spring Break T-Shirts.
One of my favorite wisealeck things to do was to go to the Jaguar Factory sales wearing a "South Park Spring Break" T-Shirt.
Bill
I had the coupe for a while, and loved it ... But anyway, if the Benz dealers are saying $40ish on this 99, then they need to be thinkin' about the high side of $45ish --- it's the right color ( not my favorite ) and these do sell quickly and it has no miles, and fall is still a ways away in KC .. Go Chiefs ..!
Again, super nice and clean vehicles ... like this 740IL ( if your info is correct ) will pull the long dollar. It's the right color that's for sure, and no miles -- So if it's a "Stand tall" 98, with it looking like a 2000 from the tires on up -- I'm thinkin' it's a $36,000 vehicle and maybe a little more -- I'm thinkin' your $25,000 is a miss print...? --- meant to say -- $35,000 ... ?
Let's see what Bill thinks ....
Terry.
The real point of the article is that the Manheim folks need to expand, and are looking at the farm next door (230+ acres), which is giving some of the local farmers fits, even though the auction keeps the whole town afloat. Supposedly they will pull out if they can't expand.
Of course, this has nothing to do with real world prices, but since Terry mentions Manheim quite frequently, thought everyone might be interested.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'd hit the car at $45K and I'd bet that a MB Dealer has people waiting in line to buy it for $49,995.
You're in KC... hmm... Try calling Motorcars Intl in Springfield, I bet they'd be all over the CLK. It is a great color (I also dont like it.. but then I hate Topaz and White on Jags. My preference is British Racing Green which is probably the worst color..haha)
I recently bought a Black 99 Ragtop for a dealer in NY for $45,500. It had 25K miles if that helps (Up there Black is good tho). He was tickled pink.
Its' worth $40K if it has like 35-40K miles and a few stone chips or bug marks.
On to the Big BMW:
I'd say that if the 740iL is *_perfect_* and I mean perfect as in park it next to a new one and you'd be hard pressed to tell perfect... I think $36-37K is what it is worth top of the market... I'd personally appraise it on trade at $34,500-35K. I'm a little leery of 740iLs myself tho... New car is about to hit and there's $10K in the trunk of the 01s... I'd say sell it now, as I have a feeling they are about to tank in a big way, much as the 92-99 Bodystyle late-model S-Classes did last year.
If they are thinking $25,000 for a 25,000 mile 1998 740iL in silver in perfect shape... Then either the car has a salvage title and has been flooded..etc.. or they are trying to rob the living hell out of you. It's worth that if its' got like 70K or so on it.
Hope this helps.
Bill
I'm hoping you can help me out here. I am planning on trading in my beloved 2000 VW Passat 1.8T, details as follows:
Satin Silver
Black Leather interior
tint
5 speed
Monsoon w/in-dash CD
Luxury package (moonroof, alloys, etc.)
19,600 miles
very, very clean
It's a great car, but I'm getting married and my fiance can't drive a stick
So, I'm planning on trading it for a 2002 Acura TL Type S with nav, as I just can't find a better bang for the buck (also had great luck with Integras for 10 years).
What can I expect on the trade, considering that both of these are pretty hot cars at the moment? Also, is the TL likley to hold it's residual better than the RL's Acura has been dumping? I'm in Texas, if that matters.
Thanks for your help!
Thanks again for providing this terrific service. Last time I posted about a near-new 20th Anniv. Max SE: you suggested values of $22 - 23K; the dealer stuck to $24K so I passed. Shortly thereafter the car sold for $25.4 to a family that bought it and two others! BTW I found out they took it in at $22K so nice profit for them.
Today I'm curious about this one, being sold by a private party in Atlanta:
2000 Maxima SE
Sterling Mist (Silver)
5-speed
Bose
Sunroof
24K miles
Great condition.
What's a fair offer for me to make?
While I'm at it, how about a value on the car I'm replacing:
1995 Cadillac STS
Black/Black leather
chrome wheels
Bose
Heated Seats
82K miles
Great shape but minor paintwork.
My dealer-buddy offered $10.5K on trade and says I should take $12K if I can get it selling it myself.
Thanks a ton!
Take care
-jeremy
I'm trying to figure out what to do with the 88 Jeep Comanchee pickup that I bought 3 years ago for $1,500 bucks and now has 180,000 miles on it after I drove it from Texas to Minnesota to DC to MN again and back to DC. I've definitely got my money out of it, it drops more oil than a Texas politician, the driver's side door doesn't open from the outside, the tail lights just went out (electrical problem) and it's blue book is like $500 tops. I don't know if a charity would even want this thing. How do I get rid of it?
Terry, what say you?
Acura? I'm not a personal fan of the TL but its a nice car, they are holding good residuals.
That being said, I'm with Black coupe. She's right. Rome wasn't built in a day..
Bill
Figure it could do $17K atsale... so take it from there....
$10,500is strong onthe Caddy IMHO. I just saw your car in Peal White with 87K miles in a 94 do like $8,200 IIRC today... Sooo..You're getting a lot at 10,500.
$12K is reasonable retail. It certainly should sell for that.
Glad to help!
Bill
I'd put it inthe paper for $1K/best cash offer and see what happens... you might be surprised.
As far as a $5K car... I'd be looking for a Chevy/Geo Prism.. like maybe a 96-97ish one.
Bill
Reason I asked is that my boss asked me today if I had noticed that prices had dropped significantly in the last few months. He had bought a '95 Maxima and '97ish Explorer recently, and seemed to think that equivilant cars were much cheaper now (like 13K vs. 9-10K).
Just curious how things work.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Your right, the Acura is a "Great" vehicle, lot's of *Ka-Bang* for the buck, you won't see a service department -- and the re-sale is super
Terry.
I like the Maxima's .. but, the risk to the present owner is : he has dwindled his market by 70% because, it's a stick --- If, he isn't aware of that fact, he will be in about 4/5 weeks when his ad is still running, and he has lowered his price a couple of times ....
If - you can get that kind of $$ for the Seville -Grab it..!
They are nice vehicles , but plentiful. 1998's with all the stuff and 27/28K are doing just around the $20ish figure, perhaps this will give you an idea ...
Terry.
Good Luck..
Terry.