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How long would it take you to pay off $13,000? Seems to me if all the dealers are telling you that your car is not worth to them what you still have to pay on it, there's a message there.
If you absolutely have to have a new car, you might be better off seeing if you can sell this one privately. If no one bites at the price you want, then there's another message.
You've already taken a big hit in depreciation in two years. Right now you're just at the point where that will level off some. You might want to think about keeping it one more year, getting it paid off or nearly so, and then go shopping again.
Otherwise you're just digging yourself into a bigger and deeper financial hole every year.
Terry, we are hoping to trade this one in the next month or so. Edmunds TMV says $14,516 and KBB says $14,450. If I can get $14,200 considering the following I would be happy. We are looking at an '06 Infiniti FX35 and I am not sure how lenient they will be with the trade in value. This vw model is still an "Editors Pick" and consumer reports still rates it a "Best Family Sedan".
What does your crystal ball say?
In the land of the Iggles... Berks County, PA 19518 (between Philly & Reading PA) 2003 VW Passat GLX, 4dr Sedan 2.8L V6, FWD 5 Sp. Auto ("AutoStick") 48,000 tall miles No Sale Medium Green Metallic Ext / Black Leather Int Vehicle Stability Control (only avail. option - GLX is fully loaded incl. bun warmers & premium sound)
Condition: (Since no used car is "excellent") Good condition, just needs a detail, no 2 Popeyes bags or Big Gulp cups.. All Weather Mats installed since day 1 (we still have the regular mats somewhere, never used.. should I ebay them or put them in the car?) Back seats hovered in Front seats good condition, needs some leather conditioner Front passenger seat has a small scratch in the leather (I am told this can be repaired by a specialist through through a dealer, just never scheduled it) New Rubber & Brakes all around (around 2 mos ago) 90K 3rd Party Ext. Warranty (Transferrable) Clean CarFax 1 SMALL Kiss on the drivers door 1 Hit & Run at 22,000mi (Hit on drivers rear bumper while car parked) Bumper, Drivers Rear quarter panel, & light assemblies replaced. Reputable body shop used and paint match is exact (or seems to me).
Still Needs: - Rear Drivers window off track - Heated Seats Recall (am I responsible for getting this performed, or can the next owner do this? only asking cause if the dealer does a crappy job I don't want to take a hit for it)
ADDL QUESTION: If I am trading in, how much effort/$$ should I put into having it detailed? If they don't care & they have to do it anyway, I won't bother. If it will affect their offer I am more than happy to put in a little elbow grease.
47 more months (financed 72 months at zero percent interest).
Seems to me if all the dealers are telling you that your car is not worth to them what you still have to pay on it, there's a message there.
I guess it just surprised me that the value of this SUV has dropped that much. Sticker was $29,600. I think TMV at the time of purchase (Dec 2003) would have been around, say, $23,000. So for it to be worth half that in two years is some of the worst depreciation I have heard of.
Besides, all of the trade-in value books, including Edmunds TMV, are well above what I owe (and I'm not using "Excellent" condition). So what gives in the real world? Everyone admits there's nothing they can fault with the car itself, they make other excuses.
If you've heard the same story from multiple dealers, then it probably isn't a conspiracy. Your vehicle must not be bringing good money at this time, for one reason or another.
KBB and Edmunds can publish whatever they want for numbers, but those website don't actually buy or sell cars. As Terry points out all the time, the only number that matters is what people are actually buying and selling their actual cars for...
Sometimes it's hard to come to grips that one's car can drop in value so fast, but that's reality
One way to look at it is to work out the numbers...
If you bought your $29k Explorer for $23k over 2 years ago, how much could you have bought a 2005 Explorer for a few months back during the Employee Pricing mayhem?
Let's just say, for example, it was $22k. If that was the case, what would you expect to pay to buy a used 2005 Explorer right now, given what the original owner probably paid? Maybe $17k-$18k, at the most?
So how much, then, would you pay for a similar 2004 model? At least a few thousand less than that, right? $13k-$14k?
Now figure the dealer has to do maintenance, recon, any shop work, certification, and tires, plus actually make some type of profit on a retail sale (it is a business, after all), and you're probably looking at trading in the car for around $10k-$11k.....
Your payoff has less than nothing to do with the value of your trade in. If you paid cash, leased or financed your car it is still worth the same amount of money. If multiple dealers are telling you that your car is worth around the same amount, then it probably is.
The OP got zero interest for 72 months??? It is absolutely silly to trade it in from a financial perspective. There is no way to get that kind of sweet deal on a used car.
Then there is a depriciation hit the OP has already absorbed from buying it new. Unless of course the OP has money to burn and can buy whatever they want every couple of years, which it doesn't sound like if the Op is crying over being upside down on the trade by a couple of thousand $$.
I'm planning on trading in my Sienna and would appreciate some ballpark numbers on what I could expect. Here are the specs: Near Philly, zip code is 19464 2004 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited FWD 6 cyl automatic 41000 miles Artic Frost Pearl exterior, beige interior All the Limited features plus CD changer, moonroof, spoiler and DVD entertainment system Recent new tires and new front brakes No accidents or dings, some very light scratches around drivers door handle Interior is clean with some stains on the floor mats. Detailed it would look pristine but not bad now. Edmunds says $24229 for clean vehicle NADA says $26675 for average Black Book says $24865 for clean and $23785 for average Your opinions? :confuse:
The reason you're upside down (and yes, you definitely are upside down) is that you financed with NOTHING DOWN, for 72 months!
Nothing down is a huge attraction, I realize that. And the low-low payments that you get for 72 months is another attraction. But gee whiz, you end up being buried in negative equity forever! As long as you are 100% in love with the car and you want to keep it; that's no big deal. But when you want to trade into a new one every few years, it's a huge deal.
You can chalk this one up to experience, and take the $2,000 +/- hit at trade. Or grit your teeth and keep it until you're no longer in the hole - which would probably be at least 2 more years.
Or...you could head down retail road and sell it yourself. Unless you're in a huge hurry (or don't want the hassle), you will always get more money selling it yourself - and often, you'll get a LOT more.
Don't be cheap and spend $5 at the local sudsy wash and a dollar's worth of armor all on the tires Spend a hundred or two on a first-class detail at a local shop, and put in a nice, big ad in your local Sunday paper. Make sure you have any original paperwork and all receipts, because potential buyers LOVE that. If it's bright, shiny, it glows in the dark, and you've got good rubber and the right price...you should be able to sell it with no problem. And you'll smile all the way to the bank.
Note - if you are reaaaaly buried in negative equity, you still might be a little shy even if you sell it yourself, but it's going to be much better than what you'll get by trading it in. I'd rather be $200 or $300 in the hole than $2K in the hole!
Well...I guess it depends on your idea of "excellent", lol.
There really are 4 and 5 year old vehicles where the owner takes meticulous care of them, waxes them once a week, changes the oil every 3,000 miles, and look darn near pristine. Me? I'd say those rank "excellent".
But those are by far the minority. Most used vehicles are...well, they're used. They have a few spots in the carpet here and there. Perhaps a scratch on one of the mirrors. A little place on the plastic door panel where junior scratched it with his soccer shoes. The "tiny tiny" ding that happened in the parking lot. Oh, and the tires that have 50% tread. Even if that vehicle cleans up nicely and is bright and shiny, it's still not "Excellent".
Boy, when we were shopping for a car for my son a year or two ago, talk about some stinkers! We'd see some almost-basket cases, but as long as they had the Toyota or Honda name plate, dealers would want stupid money for 'em. But I digress.
One for my dad... Louisville, Kentucky 2003 Volkswagen Beetle GL TDI 2 door 1.9L Turbo diesel, manual FWD 145,000 miles Dark grey exterior, black interior Only option was seat heaters on the cloth seats. It has the standard stuff, power windows, locks, mirrors, AM/FM tape player, no alloy wheels. Interior is in great condition for the mileage. Exterior is in good condition. The front bumper was repainted ($350). Fairly new windshield. Tires are Michelins showing about 8/32" tread remaining, the brakes are factory but in good condition (highway driving). It has had all the scheduled maintenance, synthetic diesel oil, timing belt at 100k and again at 120k due to a locked up tensioner (don't ask).
Could you please provide private party and trade-in values?
I guess my thought here is if you like to buy every couple years why are you buying Domestic? A 50% depreciation in 2 years is going to happen more than 90% of the time. With the Explorer you ran into Gas/MPG, and of course all the rebates/promotions over the last 4 to 5 years. Why not buy a Honda or Toyota or better yet why not a 36 month lease?
I am located in Memphis TN 2005 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro 4 door V6 3.0L AWD (Quattro) 10,000 miles Red with Black Leather Ultra Sport Package Premium Wheels Cold Weather Package XM Radio Bose Rasio w/ multi CD
I owned a '04 Tacoma 4x4 x-cab v-6 Trd. Resale was fantastic. I drove it 10-k and did not baby it and pulled back $500.00 less real money than I paid for it. I own 2 Gm's right now....time will tell.
Boston Metro area 2001 Ford Mustang Deluxe Convt. Red with the beige top and beige leather 16" Alloys with 225/55H16s 66,500 miles Mach Stereo, ABS, traction control, leather, automatic transmission, rear spoiler, power seat.. there's a dent on the front right fender and the fake scoop from behind the passneger side door is missing. the scoop only costs like 80 bucks from ford. interior is clean except for a small burn in the back seat (luckily right under the seat belt buckle)
brand new tires, brand new brakes
one accident and a rental before that. the way i see it, a rental car means that it's been maintained thoroughly and isn't necessarily a bad thing. of course, what i think doesn't matter hwen it comes to how much someone will give me for my trade...
i've been quoted between 5500 and 7000 for it. but today i was quoted 3!!! wow!! anyway, i don't really know what i should expect. edmunds TMV for a "clean" vehicle is 7600 and the TMV for a "fair" vehicle is 6200 (both rounded to the nearest hundred..) but i think my car would fall somewhere in between those two categories.
i'm trying to get 7 thousand for it.. i just want OUT!
Just wanted to say thanks for giving me the trade in value of $8700 range a couple of weeks ago. Decided I could wait a little longer for my new car and tried to sell it myself....had two interested buyers and on my third buyer took it for $9600, blue booked out at around 10,200 so we were very happy as we only owed a little over 2000 for it so have a nice chunk to put on a down payment now. Once again thanks!
Just fyi, that car as it is described would fall between the rough and fair condition.... :sick: Missing trim bits that probably need to be painted, a significant dent in the fender, cigarette burn on the seat (not to mention the smoke smell in the car) all contribute to the less than fair condition.
Lest we forget that you are trying to trade a convertible in Boston on the eve of a winter storm.
If you want ~$7000 for it, you need to get it all fixed up (missing trim, dent fixed, etc), super detail in and out, then put a good ad in the paper sometime the end of April with an asking of $7900.
well there's no smell in the car. i don't smoke, SOMETIMES people smoke in my car. i know it's a minor thing; just clearing that part up. if the cigarette burn were gone, the 80 DOLLAR SCOOP was replaced, adn the dent were repaired, there wouldn't be anything wrong with the car. i understand the history making it not worth as much as it could be, but i don't see how a car's only flaw being a spotty history (assuming the car were fixed up) would actually put it in "fair" condition.
fair condition as described on KBB.. "Fair" condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean title history, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.
my car has ONLY cosmetic defects, and the trim bits don't need to be painted - you buy them from ford in the color of your car. also, as i said before, the car has brand new brakes and tires. if the car were fixed up, it definitely wouldn't fit that description, and "poor" on KBB is described as having irreperable damage such as a rusted through body, bent frame, etc.
i appreciate your advice, and i dont want to make it seem like i'm pouncing on you - but that just seems WAY off.
KBB gets it wrong more often than not, it is just a guide and not the one the dealers use.
From any dealers perspective: missing parts on the car, a dent that may need a repaint on the fender or fender replacement, and any signs of cigarette smoke in the interior, all mean it is going to take significant repairs and extra work to get it ready for sale. i.e. less than fair condition, means more $$ and time to get it ready for sale, or off to auction it goes. Any case means they want to be way back of book on the value.
Could you please help me out with a trade-in value of this vehicle?
Location : Central Massachusetts Y/M/M: 2004 Ford Escape XLT Body Style: 4 dr Engine: 6 cylinder; automatic Driveline: 4WD Mileage: 21,000 Color: Silver with tan interior Options: Sunroof, 6 CD changer, alloys Condition: Good, no accidents, no dents or scratches
Location: Chicago IL Year/Make/Model: 2001 Oldsmobile Aurora 3.5 (6cyl) Body Style: 4 door sedan Engine: 3.5 liter, 6 cylinder, auto Driveline: FWD Mileage: 69,900 Color: Silver/gray Major Options: CD, sun roof, dual climate control, traction, stability, heated seats, power seats. Condition: Overall car in normal condition other than normal wear and tear, no noticable dents or defects other than 3 scratches on rear bumber caused from garage door due to wife not knowing how far to pull the car into the garage. *sigh* Plan is to get the car professionally detailed prior to showing. Tires - ok, ill be honest- original tires and approaching 70,000 but tread is good and wear is even, I have often balanced and rotated. Brakes and calipers replaced with in the year and scheduled maintenance is followed, Dealer replaced transmission at 38,000 miles.
Other: No accidents, body work or paint ever performed.
My next car is going to be a lease and would like to know what I can expect from selling it to a dealer or a private sale? I do not need the equity for the next car, and if the difference is significant I will go the private sale route.
The tiny little hole near the seatbelt isn't what's killing your value. It's the dent in the fender, AND the fact that it's a convertible, in the middle of winter! It's just the way life is: 4x4 SUV's are slower sellers in the dead of summer; and convertibles and sports cars are slower in the winter.
dkuhajda had the perfect advice: Buy the cheap $80 scoop, and either put it on yourself, or have a shop put it on for you. If you have a "tiny ding" in the fender, then your local dent doctor can fix it. If it's a normal size "dent", then have a local body shop repair it. And lastly...sell that sucker in the late spring/early summer, and don't trade it in, sell it yourself! A beautiful bright red mustang, perfect and shiny, with the top down on a warmish/hot late spring day is going to be EASY to sell. Not so much on a cold, blustry winter day.
We have been told by a few that we overpaid for our newly acquired fuel miser.
We bought:
Location: Atlanta, GA Year/Make/Model: 1996 Honda Civic EX Body Style: 4 door sedan Engine: 1.6L Driveline: FWD Mileage: 127,000 Transmission: 5-speed manual Color: Silver exterior/gray interior Major Options: Sunroof, AM/FM/Cassette/CD Changer, power mirrors, locks, and windows, cruise control, AC Condition: Looks like a 10 year old car with a few scratches and dings throughout. No accident history so all paint is original. Interior is clean. No stains, rips, or smells. No french-fry invasions. Non-smoker. Could pass for 3-4 years old inside. Tires: About halfway through their life cycle. Brakes: Good condition. Slight vibration from higher speeds but fine from most. Maintenance: It just had an oil change from the previous owner but it does need an air filter. It runs great and an inspection found no problems.
We paid $3800 + taxes and title for the car. Is that too much?
Just curious, why do you desperately want OUT of this car? I'm convertible shopping and someone recommended that I consider a Mustang. Did you not like driving it?
Bump; I've looked at trade-in values given for my car at the following:
TMV = $13,602 KBB = $12,695 NADA = $17,075
With the wide range of values, I want to be sure what I should really expect. The car is in great shape, no dings or scratches in the paint, just a few very minor nicks on the hood you can't see without getting real close. The tires are about half worn. When washed, it really looks almost new. I'm not expecting "excellent" valuation too. Terry, can you help? Thanks!
Sorry, I thought I copied my previous post so you wouldn't have to back to it. Here it is.
Hi Terry,
I'm looking to trade my 02 I35, but I haven't finalized my new car selection. I would like to know what I can/should expect when talking a deal for a new car.
Sport package Pearl White Sunroof and rear sunscreen package 55,600 miles All maintenance done, and it looks in great shape. I still get comments about how new it is - I've had it 4 years.
I'm not using KBB either... only for their condition descriptions.. needing significant repairs would put it in fair condition and being irreperable would make it poor.. did you mean that dealers dont follow those condition descriptions? because i went to NADA.com and they don't even have any. I know they don't use KBB for the values, but KBB is the low end of the spectrum when it comes to getting the value of a car anyway, and NADA is on the high end of the sepctrum. the guy was even quoting NADA values when we were talking to him which were complete BS.
You said the car would fall somewhere between "rough" and "fair". the TMV for a trade in "rough" condition is still 5600. that accounts for the money needed to make the car saleable, which in my case is considerably less than the $2,000 difference between a car in rough condition and a car in clean condition. Why are you making it seem like fair is the absolute best condition my car could be considered to be in?
I see where you're coming from. It seems like they want to take more off of the value of the car than the repairs actually cost.. maybe I should fix the dent and scoop myself so the dealers wont whine and try to take off 4x what it costs to fix that.
Fixing it yourself sounds like a good plan. AND do as much as you can to get the smoke smell out, and don't let anyone smoke in it anymore. A car with a smoke smell is not going to be desirable to a big chunk of the market.
Do you not like driving it? Or did you just decide you want something else? Just curious and collecting notes for convertible shopping.
I LOVE IT! but i can't afford the insurance and if i have to get out to let one more person into my back seat i'm going to kill myself. lol. just doesn't fit my needs i guess. but its a great car, i've never had one problem with the powertrain since i've had it, and its really fun to drive. even though its got the most girly configuration ever (v6 and an auto hehe)
there is absolutely no smoke smell either, btw. between the leather seats and the fact that smoking hardly ever occurrs in my car, it doesn't smell at all.
yeah, i understand the season thing. I was actually just going to ask how much more i could really expect if i waited a few months. i'm sure dealers would see it come in in april and the first thing to pop in their head would be how pretty it would look on the lot drawing customers in..
i just don't want to spend $1000 on repairs to find out that dealers are only willing to give me $1000 more on my trade. i mean, i could go sell the car to herb chambers for 6000 bucks right now. the 3000 appraisal was a WICKED lowball. i don't think thats what is happening though. obviously, nobody needed me to tell them that the dealer would try to take more off the value of the car than the repairs cost.. :P
Hmmm - V6 and an auto is one of the most "common" configurations, isn't it? Why "girly?" A true man has to insist on a man-ual? :P
As a non-smoker, trust me, if your car has been smoked in at ALL, there will be some residual smoke smell. A can of Febreeze might help.
I understand your pain with Boston insurance rates, I used to live there a long time ago. Go Red Sox!! Are you guys buried in snow today? Down here around D.C. the world is white, we got about 6 to 8 inches. How's the Mustang in snow?
last year, the mustang was okay in the snow. i only got stuck once, and that was because i had to drive over a pile of snow that hadn't been shoveled off of the double yelow line. lol, i got stuck in the middle of the road. this winter, it was horrible, but that was because it needed new tires BAD. i put those on, and i've yet to drive in the snow. u should be fine. like i said, last year i had no troubles.
the v6 auto is one of the most common configurations, but all my friends who are into cars like to chide me that i drive the least powerful mustang possible i also drive the 2nd least thirsty one.
i really recommend the mustang convertible... i know this is subjective, but i think the styling is SEXY!!!! (99-2004) i LOVE the fat butt. the top is also easy to operate, and the Mach sound system is bumpin' :shades:
If that is $6000 real cash money with the car as-is, take it and run.
The same car in states without the white stuff on the ground right now have dealer ASKING prices of $8000-9000 for the same car, which typically means out the door pricing of $7000-8000 (depending on exact condition).
Given that your car is going to be charging the dealer interest (floor plan) for at least three more months in Boston, plus the repairs, and the expected dealer retail of less than $8000, the $6000 real cash offer sounds like the deal.
Without seeing the actual condition of the car, it probably is being pegged somwhere in the low-mid $4K's ACV as-is.
You are still better off $$ wise getting the exterior cosmetic stuff fixed, super interior detail including the Ozone air clean treatment to kill the remainder of any smoke smell, then go try and trade it in or retail it out this early spring. Dealers will be willing to trade better on that car when it is within one month of spring when they will be able to move the conv't.
umm... i just did a search for V6 Mustang Convertibles within 50 miles of my area on auto trader.
Advertised Price Range for this search $14,995 Highest price $7,495 Lowest price $10,731 Average price
EVERY SINGLE CAR under $10,000 has AT LEAST 75 thousand miles on it, not to mention cloth seats, manual tranny, etc. or is being sold by a private seller. and it's winter now.
Where are you getting your numbers?
BTW, the 6k isn't the highest offer i've gotten. the highest was 7500... but i didn't want to buy that car. and no, we weren't getting screwed on the price of the car.
2004 Lincon Navigator. Color: Merlot/Light Gray Just turned 20,000 miles yesterday. Car is in very very very very good shape. Looks brand new in and out. It's a 4X4 with upgraded towing package. It's got all the options except power running boards, IE: Heated/cooled seats, DVD video system, Top o line audio, Navigation system, Power 3rd seat, power liftgate, moonroof, Seats 8 (has the bench second row - the 2 outer seats recline and the middle one slides forward and aft). Lots more 'stuff'. It's the 'Ultimate' packge and stickered at $63K. Everthing seriously looks new and maintenance is current. Warantee to 50K miles Love the car but gotta sell it.
-OR-
if I can't get a reasonable price for the Nav, perhaps this one will be easier to sell???:
2003 Ford Explorer Sport Trac.4 Door P/U thing. 4.0 Liter/automagic. It's also a 4X4 and is (also) red with light grey innards. This one is the XLT package so it has cruise and auto-headlights and power everything except seats, which are cloth not leather. Radio has a CD player and cassette deck! whoopee. It's got the bed extender and the hard tonneau cover. It's in good shape. Couple of small small dings. Looks real sharp though. Maintenance is current. Oh, mileage is 21,000. Tires are original an have lots of tread left. No cupping. It also is set up to be towed, with a neutral tow switch and tow cennectors on front.
What say you? What might I expect for these?
BTW, Hi Viki! Having fun in the Boston snow? I can relate. I grew up there, went to college driving a '64 Monterey convertible. I used to like to bundle up, put the top down and drive around like that in the winter. OK, so I never did grow up there :>)
Just a few select examples to keep the post from getting too long.
TX asking $8500, 79K, dealer CA asking $8500, 62K, dealer FL asking $8500, 72K, private party (all three identical in equipment, 3.8L V6, auto, Leather)
The top end of the normal asking prices for the same is $11K. Dealers can ask anything they want, what the cash out the door price really is no one but the dealers know. I exclude any dealers that have run gimmick ads for the guaranteed minimum $2500 or $4000 for your trade or the guarantee to pay off your car no matter what you owe as those asking prices are in another world that is not reality.
Auction prices in December, Midwest, $4800 80K fair cond, $6300 65K good cond.
If you haven't figured it out yet, what they 'show' you on paper for your trade is not necessarily what they are really giving you. The only thing that matters is the actual cash money buy offer.
BTW most good sales people are masters of reading customers. The fact that you just want out of the car is probably evident, especially given the fact that you have not fixed the exterior and so far do not plan on it.
Again, you need to fix it, clean it up, and wait a couple of months if you want top dollar either on trade or selling it yourself. If it is standing tall come April/May, you will see much better cash offers whichever way you want to unload it.
Check the asking prices on autotrader for boston. The average is over 10 thousand, and most of them are over 11. Identical cars, or cheaper if they have less equipment. YOU were the one who started talking about asking prices, not me. YOU were also the one who was talking about what OTD price would be, now it's a mystery that only the dealer knows? Umm..
i'm not dealing with a salesperson, i'm dealing with the internet department. all i said to the him AFTER getting the price was that i wanted to get the car appraised. whatd you think, i walked in with no idea of what a fair price for the car is, only with my trade value in mind, and then confided in the SALESMAN about how much i dont like the car? give me a break.
you yourself said that the car is between rough and fair condition. rough conditoin TMV is 5600 dollars, fair is 6200, and good is 7600. My car only needs about 1000 dollars worth of work to qualify as good. So yeah, maybe it's a good idea to fix it myself. But if i do, I don't think 7g is top dollar. I can read what qualifies for what condition just as well as you can. KBB for a private party sale (dealers might not use KBB, but many buyers do) for that car in good condition is 9 thousand dollars, so around 8 after negotiations. Dealers will turn around and try to sell it for more than that. You can check the prices yourself.
Volvos are expensive to maintain and have terrible resale value. The interiors are very Ford, which isn't surprising if you consider Volvo is owned by Ford. Stick with Japanese or German products if you want a premium SUV.
I work at a dealership that specializes in used cars such as yours and I can tell you that that dkuhadja is not bluffing you.
$6000 is a very generous offer. Even in the middle of the hot summer with your car fixed up, you will not see anything close to $10,000 for it from a private seller. $8000? Maybe if you fix every single little thing with your car and have it professionally detailed and you find a young female college student who has had a few margaritas and a check from daddy. In other words, don't hold your breath for it.
A rental car is very undesirable. I hope you do realize how people drive rental cars, especially a sporty convertible car such as a Mustang. Even if it had proper maintenance as most rental cars do, it was driven hard and it is impossible to know what could be wrong with the car now.
What do you mean by "such as yours" ? Just curious.
And why is there such a huge difference between what you are telling me and what the TMV/KBB/NADA (theyre all different but still way higher) is for my car, even in "rough" shape?
viki517, you summed up your situation perfectly - "[i]t seems like they want to take more off of the value of the car car than the repairs actually cost..."
THIS IS ALWAYS TRUE OF ANY PRODUCT, especially vehicles.
As the others have said, if you want top dollar, your vehicle must be in the best possible condition.
"Book" value means little. Here's an example: I'm buying a very nice 2003 VW New Beetle Turbo S from a private party (original owner) for $11,500. It comes with all service records from new, no damage history, and has 31,000 miles. Its "book" trade value is about $13,000 and any dealer would be asking $16-17,000.
Now, why is the owner letting it go so cheap? He'd been trying to sell through Auto Trader or the like since September. He started at $15,500 and has come down over time without any takers. He's tired of making payments on it. At $11,500, it's a good buy for me. At $12,000 or more I would have passed.
Bottom line - market establishes price, not some book.
Was considering trading my wife's 2003 BMW530i - 27k miles and in great shape against a 2006 BMW X5-v8 or a Volvo XC90 V8. Was consistantly quoted auction purchase prices -so anything on-line, whether it be Edmunds, NADA or KBB was at least $3K-$5K over what they were offering - decided to sell it myself, and got pretty much equal to the Edmunds private party sale price and then went out and bought a loaded 2006 XC90 V8 for $40k cash. I will never shop at the dealers that I previously worked with and I will never, ever consider trading a car.
I will never shop at the dealers that I previously worked with and I will never, ever consider trading a car.
I agree 100% with your statement "I will never consider trading a car". You will always do better in a private sale. Yeah, in the "tax difference" states, trading can save you some tax money. But it rarely comes close to offsetting the extra money you'll get by selling it yourself.
But you also said "I'll never shop at the dealers I previously worked with"...?? Just because they offered you wholesale for your vehicle? Friend, they ALL do that. That's what car dealers do! They pay you wholesale, and they sell for retail. That doesn't make them bad people, it makes them car dealers. Your objective is to be an informed consumer, and try to pay as much below retail as possible! Let them make their profit on some other turkey.
I agree 100% with your statement "I will never consider trading a car". You will always do better in a private sale. Yeah, in the "tax difference" states, trading can save you some tax money. But it rarely comes close to offsetting the extra money you'll get by selling it yourself.
In addition to the tax savings, the other benefit is the simplcity of just trading a car in. A lot of people would rather give up $1000 in order to not deal with the hassle of selling a car on their own: reconditioning, taking pictures, listing in paper or on the internet, getting calls from strange people, letting strange people take test drives, working up a sale with strange people, etc. Sometimes it's just easier to trade it in, which is why people still do it.
But you also said "I'll never shop at the dealers I previously worked with"...?? Just because they offered you wholesale for your vehicle? Friend, they ALL do that. That's what car dealers do! They pay you wholesale, and they sell for retail. That doesn't make them bad people, it makes them car dealers. Your objective is to be an informed consumer, and try to pay as much below retail as possible! Let them make their profit on some other turkey.
It's not just car dealers that "buy wholesale, sell retail." Umm, it's every retail business! Are you going to boycott your local supermarket or electronics store or every other store in the nearby shopping center? They all probably "bought wholesale, sold retail." It's our capitalistic corporate world... The American Dream. :P
Comments
To be perfectly honest, I just like to buy new cars!
Is that alot left to pay? I bought it new. It'll probably never be paid for, it would have well over 100k by then at the rate I mile up a car.
If you absolutely have to have a new car, you might be better off seeing if you can sell this one privately. If no one bites at the price you want, then there's another message.
You've already taken a big hit in depreciation in two years. Right now you're just at the point where that will level off some. You might want to think about keeping it one more year, getting it paid off or nearly so, and then go shopping again.
Otherwise you're just digging yourself into a bigger and deeper financial hole every year.
What does your crystal ball say?
In the land of the Iggles...
Berks County, PA 19518 (between Philly & Reading PA)
2003 VW Passat GLX, 4dr Sedan
2.8L V6, FWD
5 Sp. Auto ("AutoStick")
48,000 tall miles
No Sale Medium Green Metallic Ext / Black Leather Int
Vehicle Stability Control (only avail. option - GLX is fully loaded incl. bun warmers & premium sound)
Condition:
(Since no used car is "excellent") Good condition, just needs a detail, no 2 Popeyes bags or Big Gulp cups..
All Weather Mats installed since day 1 (we still have the regular mats somewhere, never used.. should I ebay them or put them in the car?)
Back seats hovered in
Front seats good condition, needs some leather conditioner
Front passenger seat has a small scratch in the leather (I am told this can be repaired by a specialist through through a dealer, just never scheduled it)
New Rubber & Brakes all around (around 2 mos ago)
90K 3rd Party Ext. Warranty (Transferrable)
Clean CarFax
1 SMALL Kiss on the drivers door
1 Hit & Run at 22,000mi (Hit on drivers rear bumper while car parked) Bumper, Drivers Rear quarter panel, & light assemblies replaced. Reputable body shop used and paint match is exact (or seems to me).
Still Needs:
- Rear Drivers window off track
- Heated Seats Recall (am I responsible for getting this performed, or can the next owner do this? only asking cause if the dealer does a crappy job I don't want to take a hit for it)
ADDL QUESTION: If I am trading in, how much effort/$$ should I put into having it detailed? If they don't care & they have to do it anyway, I won't bother. If it will affect their offer I am more than happy to put in a little elbow grease.
Thanks so much! AudreyM
47 more months (financed 72 months at zero percent interest).
Seems to me if all the dealers are telling you that your car is not worth to them what you still have to pay on it, there's a message there.
I guess it just surprised me that the value of this SUV has dropped that much. Sticker was $29,600. I think TMV at the time of purchase (Dec 2003) would have been around, say, $23,000. So for it to be worth half that in two years is some of the worst depreciation I have heard of.
Besides, all of the trade-in value books, including Edmunds TMV, are well above what I owe (and I'm not using "Excellent" condition). So what gives in the real world? Everyone admits there's nothing they can fault with the car itself, they make other excuses.
KBB and Edmunds can publish whatever they want for numbers, but those website don't actually buy or sell cars.
Sometimes it's hard to come to grips that one's car can drop in value so fast, but that's reality
If you bought your $29k Explorer for $23k over 2 years ago, how much could you have bought a 2005 Explorer for a few months back during the Employee Pricing mayhem?
Let's just say, for example, it was $22k. If that was the case, what would you expect to pay to buy a used 2005 Explorer right now, given what the original owner probably paid? Maybe $17k-$18k, at the most?
So how much, then, would you pay for a similar 2004 model? At least a few thousand less than that, right? $13k-$14k?
Now figure the dealer has to do maintenance, recon, any shop work, certification, and tires, plus actually make some type of profit on a retail sale (it is a business, after all), and you're probably looking at trading in the car for around $10k-$11k.....
See how the math works out?
Thanks for the opinions!
If you have equity in your trade, it seems like the dealers have trouble valuing trade any more than the payoff. This issue seems to go both ways.
It is absolutely silly to trade it in from a financial perspective. There is no way to get that kind of sweet deal on a used car.
Then there is a depriciation hit the OP has already absorbed from buying it new. Unless of course the OP has money to burn and can buy whatever they want every couple of years, which it doesn't sound like if the Op is crying over being upside down on the trade by a couple of thousand $$.
Near Philly, zip code is 19464
2004 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited FWD
6 cyl automatic
41000 miles
Artic Frost Pearl exterior, beige interior
All the Limited features plus CD changer, moonroof, spoiler and DVD entertainment system
Recent new tires and new front brakes
No accidents or dings, some very light scratches around drivers door handle
Interior is clean with some stains on the floor mats. Detailed it would look pristine but not bad now.
Edmunds says $24229 for clean vehicle
NADA says $26675 for average
Black Book says $24865 for clean and $23785 for average
Your opinions? :confuse:
Nothing down is a huge attraction, I realize that. And the low-low payments that you get for 72 months is another attraction. But gee whiz, you end up being buried in negative equity forever! As long as you are 100% in love with the car and you want to keep it; that's no big deal. But when you want to trade into a new one every few years, it's a huge deal.
You can chalk this one up to experience, and take the $2,000 +/- hit at trade. Or grit your teeth and keep it until you're no longer in the hole - which would probably be at least 2 more years.
Or...you could head down retail road and sell it yourself. Unless you're in a huge hurry (or don't want the hassle), you will always get more money selling it yourself - and often, you'll get a LOT more.
Don't be cheap and spend $5 at the local sudsy wash and a dollar's worth of armor all on the tires
Note - if you are reaaaaly buried in negative equity, you still might be a little shy even if you sell it yourself, but it's going to be much better than what you'll get by trading it in. I'd rather be $200 or $300 in the hole than $2K in the hole!
There really are 4 and 5 year old vehicles where the owner takes meticulous care of them, waxes them once a week, changes the oil every 3,000 miles, and look darn near pristine. Me? I'd say those rank "excellent".
But those are by far the minority. Most used vehicles are...well, they're used. They have a few spots in the carpet here and there. Perhaps a scratch on one of the mirrors. A little place on the plastic door panel where junior scratched it with his soccer shoes. The "tiny tiny" ding that happened in the parking lot. Oh, and the tires that have 50% tread. Even if that vehicle cleans up nicely and is bright and shiny, it's still not "Excellent".
Boy, when we were shopping for a car for my son a year or two ago, talk about some stinkers! We'd see some almost-basket cases, but as long as they had the Toyota or Honda name plate, dealers would want stupid money for 'em. But I digress.
Louisville, Kentucky
2003 Volkswagen Beetle GL TDI
2 door
1.9L Turbo diesel, manual FWD
145,000 miles
Dark grey exterior, black interior
Only option was seat heaters on the cloth seats. It has the standard stuff, power windows, locks, mirrors, AM/FM tape player, no alloy wheels.
Interior is in great condition for the mileage. Exterior is in good condition. The front bumper was repainted ($350). Fairly new windshield. Tires are Michelins showing about 8/32" tread remaining, the brakes are factory but in good condition (highway driving).
It has had all the scheduled maintenance, synthetic diesel oil, timing belt at 100k and again at 120k due to a locked up tensioner (don't ask).
Could you please provide private party and trade-in values?
2005 Audi A4 3.0 Quattro
4 door
V6 3.0L
AWD (Quattro)
10,000 miles
Red with Black Leather
Ultra Sport Package
Premium Wheels
Cold Weather Package
XM Radio
Bose Rasio w/ multi CD
Thanks!!!
2001 Ford Mustang Deluxe Convt.
Red with the beige top and beige leather
16" Alloys with 225/55H16s
66,500 miles
Mach Stereo, ABS, traction control, leather, automatic transmission, rear spoiler, power seat..
there's a dent on the front right fender and the fake scoop from behind the passneger side door is missing. the scoop only costs like 80 bucks from ford. interior is clean except for a small burn in the back seat (luckily right under the seat belt buckle)
brand new tires, brand new brakes
one accident and a rental before that. the way i see it, a rental car means that it's been maintained thoroughly and isn't necessarily a bad thing. of course, what i think doesn't matter hwen it comes to how much someone will give me for my trade...
i've been quoted between 5500 and 7000 for it. but today i was quoted 3!!! wow!! anyway, i don't really know what i should expect. edmunds TMV for a "clean" vehicle is 7600 and the TMV for a "fair" vehicle is 6200 (both rounded to the nearest hundred..) but i think my car would fall somewhere in between those two categories.
i'm trying to get 7 thousand for it.. i just want OUT!
Once again thanks!
Lest we forget that you are trying to trade a convertible in Boston on the eve of a winter storm.
If you want ~$7000 for it, you need to get it all fixed up (missing trim, dent fixed, etc), super detail in and out, then put a good ad in the paper sometime the end of April with an asking of $7900.
fair condition as described on KBB..
"Fair" condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean title history, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.
my car has ONLY cosmetic defects, and the trim bits don't need to be painted - you buy them from ford in the color of your car. also, as i said before, the car has brand new brakes and tires. if the car were fixed up, it definitely wouldn't fit that description, and "poor" on KBB is described as having irreperable damage such as a rusted through body, bent frame, etc.
i appreciate your advice, and i dont want to make it seem like i'm pouncing on you - but that just seems WAY off.
From any dealers perspective: missing parts on the car, a dent that may need a repaint on the fender or fender replacement, and any signs of cigarette smoke in the interior, all mean it is going to take significant repairs and extra work to get it ready for sale. i.e. less than fair condition, means more $$ and time to get it ready for sale, or off to auction it goes. Any case means they want to be way back of book on the value.
Could you please help me out with a trade-in value of this vehicle?
Location : Central Massachusetts
Y/M/M: 2004 Ford Escape XLT
Body Style: 4 dr
Engine: 6 cylinder; automatic
Driveline: 4WD
Mileage: 21,000
Color: Silver with tan interior
Options: Sunroof, 6 CD changer, alloys
Condition: Good, no accidents, no dents or scratches
Year/Make/Model: 2001 Oldsmobile Aurora 3.5 (6cyl)
Body Style: 4 door sedan
Engine: 3.5 liter, 6 cylinder, auto
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 69,900
Color: Silver/gray
Major Options: CD, sun roof, dual climate control, traction, stability, heated seats, power seats.
Condition:
Overall car in normal condition other than normal wear and tear, no noticable dents or defects other than 3 scratches on rear bumber caused from garage door due to wife not knowing how far to pull the car into the garage. *sigh*
Plan is to get the car professionally detailed prior to showing.
Tires - ok, ill be honest- original tires and approaching 70,000 but tread is good and wear is even, I have often balanced and rotated. Brakes and calipers replaced with in the year and scheduled maintenance is followed, Dealer replaced transmission at 38,000 miles.
Other: No accidents, body work or paint ever performed.
My next car is going to be a lease and would like to know what I can expect from selling it to a dealer or a private sale? I do not need the equity for the next car, and if the difference is significant I will go the private sale route.
Thanks for your thoughts..
The tiny little hole near the seatbelt isn't what's killing your value. It's the dent in the fender, AND the fact that it's a convertible, in the middle of winter! It's just the way life is: 4x4 SUV's are slower sellers in the dead of summer; and convertibles and sports cars are slower in the winter.
dkuhajda had the perfect advice: Buy the cheap $80 scoop, and either put it on yourself, or have a shop put it on for you. If you have a "tiny ding" in the fender, then your local dent doctor can fix it. If it's a normal size "dent", then have a local body shop repair it. And lastly...sell that sucker in the late spring/early summer, and don't trade it in, sell it yourself! A beautiful bright red mustang, perfect and shiny, with the top down on a warmish/hot late spring day is going to be EASY to sell. Not so much on a cold, blustry winter day.
We bought:
Location: Atlanta, GA
Year/Make/Model: 1996 Honda Civic EX
Body Style: 4 door sedan
Engine: 1.6L
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 127,000
Transmission: 5-speed manual
Color: Silver exterior/gray interior
Major Options: Sunroof, AM/FM/Cassette/CD Changer, power mirrors, locks, and windows, cruise control, AC
Condition: Looks like a 10 year old car with a few scratches and dings throughout. No accident history so all paint is original. Interior is clean. No stains, rips, or smells. No french-fry invasions. Non-smoker. Could pass for 3-4 years old inside.
Tires: About halfway through their life cycle.
Brakes: Good condition. Slight vibration from higher speeds but fine from most.
Maintenance: It just had an oil change from the previous owner but it does need an air filter. It runs great and an inspection found no problems.
We paid $3800 + taxes and title for the car. Is that too much?
I've looked at trade-in values given for my car at the following:
TMV = $13,602
KBB = $12,695
NADA = $17,075
With the wide range of values, I want to be sure what I should really expect. The car is in great shape, no dings or scratches in the paint, just a few very minor nicks on the hood you can't see without getting real close. The tires are about half worn. When washed, it really looks almost new. I'm not expecting "excellent" valuation too.
Terry, can you help? Thanks!
Hi Terry,
I'm looking to trade my 02 I35, but I haven't finalized my new car selection. I would like to know what I can/should expect when talking a deal for a new car.
Sport package
Pearl White
Sunroof and rear sunscreen package
55,600 miles
All maintenance done, and it looks in great shape.
I still get comments about how new it is - I've had it 4 years.
Thanks for your response!
You said the car would fall somewhere between "rough" and "fair". the TMV for a trade in "rough" condition is still 5600. that accounts for the money needed to make the car saleable, which in my case is considerably less than the $2,000 difference between a car in rough condition and a car in clean condition. Why are you making it seem like fair is the absolute best condition my car could be considered to be in?
I see where you're coming from. It seems like they want to take more off of the value of the car than the repairs actually cost.. maybe I should fix the dent and scoop myself so the dealers wont whine and try to take off 4x what it costs to fix that.
Do you not like driving it? Or did you just decide you want something else? Just curious and collecting notes for convertible shopping.
there is absolutely no smoke smell either, btw. between the leather seats and the fact that smoking hardly ever occurrs in my car, it doesn't smell at all.
i just don't want to spend $1000 on repairs to find out that dealers are only willing to give me $1000 more on my trade. i mean, i could go sell the car to herb chambers for 6000 bucks right now. the 3000 appraisal was a WICKED lowball. i don't think thats what is happening though. obviously, nobody needed me to tell them that the dealer would try to take more off the value of the car than the repairs cost.. :P
Hmmm - V6 and an auto is one of the most "common" configurations, isn't it? Why "girly?" A true man has to insist on a man-ual? :P
As a non-smoker, trust me, if your car has been smoked in at ALL, there will be some residual smoke smell. A can of Febreeze might help.
I understand your pain with Boston insurance rates, I used to live there a long time ago. Go Red Sox!! Are you guys buried in snow today? Down here around D.C. the world is white, we got about 6 to 8 inches. How's the Mustang in snow?
last year, the mustang was okay in the snow. i only got stuck once, and that was because i had to drive over a pile of snow that hadn't been shoveled off of the double yelow line. lol, i got stuck in the middle of the road. this winter, it was horrible, but that was because it needed new tires BAD. i put those on, and i've yet to drive in the snow. u should be fine. like i said, last year i had no troubles.
the v6 auto is one of the most common configurations, but all my friends who are into cars like to chide me that i drive the least powerful mustang possible
i really recommend the mustang convertible... i know this is subjective, but i think the styling is SEXY!!!! (99-2004) i LOVE the fat butt. the top is also easy to operate, and the Mach sound system is bumpin' :shades:
The same car in states without the white stuff on the ground right now have dealer ASKING prices of $8000-9000 for the same car, which typically means out the door pricing of $7000-8000 (depending on exact condition).
Given that your car is going to be charging the dealer interest (floor plan) for at least three more months in Boston, plus the repairs, and the expected dealer retail of less than $8000, the $6000 real cash offer sounds like the deal.
Without seeing the actual condition of the car, it probably is being pegged somwhere in the low-mid $4K's ACV as-is.
You are still better off $$ wise getting the exterior cosmetic stuff fixed, super interior detail including the Ozone air clean treatment to kill the remainder of any smoke smell, then go try and trade it in or retail it out this early spring. Dealers will be willing to trade better on that car when it is within one month of spring when they will be able to move the conv't.
Advertised Price Range for this search
$14,995 Highest price
$7,495 Lowest price
$10,731 Average price
EVERY SINGLE CAR under $10,000 has AT LEAST 75 thousand miles on it, not to mention cloth seats, manual tranny, etc. or is being sold by a private seller. and it's winter now.
Where are you getting your numbers?
BTW, the 6k isn't the highest offer i've gotten. the highest was 7500... but i didn't want to buy that car. and no, we weren't getting screwed on the price of the car.
:confuse:
In Caleefoneeah's Sillycon Valley:
2004 Lincon Navigator. Color: Merlot/Light Gray
Just turned 20,000 miles yesterday.
Car is in very very very very good shape. Looks brand new in and out.
It's a 4X4 with upgraded towing package.
It's got all the options except power running boards, IE: Heated/cooled seats, DVD video system, Top o line audio, Navigation system, Power 3rd seat, power liftgate, moonroof, Seats 8 (has the bench second row - the 2 outer seats recline and the middle one slides forward and aft). Lots more 'stuff'. It's the 'Ultimate' packge and stickered at $63K.
Everthing seriously looks new and maintenance is current. Warantee to 50K miles
Love the car but gotta sell it.
-OR-
if I can't get a reasonable price for the Nav, perhaps this one will be easier to sell???:
2003 Ford Explorer Sport Trac.4 Door P/U thing.
4.0 Liter/automagic. It's also a 4X4 and is (also) red with light grey innards.
This one is the XLT package so it has cruise and auto-headlights and power everything except seats, which are cloth not leather. Radio has a CD player and cassette deck! whoopee. It's got the bed extender and the hard tonneau cover.
It's in good shape. Couple of small small dings. Looks real sharp though. Maintenance is current. Oh, mileage is 21,000. Tires are original an have lots of tread left. No cupping. It also is set up to be towed, with a neutral tow switch and tow cennectors on front.
What say you? What might I expect for these?
BTW, Hi Viki! Having fun in the Boston snow? I can relate. I grew up there, went to college driving a '64 Monterey convertible. I used to like to bundle up, put the top down and drive around like that in the winter. OK, so I never did grow up there :>)
TX asking $8500, 79K, dealer
CA asking $8500, 62K, dealer
FL asking $8500, 72K, private party
(all three identical in equipment, 3.8L V6, auto, Leather)
The top end of the normal asking prices for the same is $11K. Dealers can ask anything they want, what the cash out the door price really is no one but the dealers know. I exclude any dealers that have run gimmick ads for the guaranteed minimum $2500 or $4000 for your trade or the guarantee to pay off your car no matter what you owe as those asking prices are in another world that is not reality.
Auction prices in December, Midwest, $4800 80K fair cond, $6300 65K good cond.
If you haven't figured it out yet, what they 'show' you on paper for your trade is not necessarily what they are really giving you. The only thing that matters is the actual cash money buy offer.
BTW most good sales people are masters of reading customers. The fact that you just want out of the car is probably evident, especially given the fact that you have not fixed the exterior and so far do not plan on it.
Again, you need to fix it, clean it up, and wait a couple of months if you want top dollar either on trade or selling it yourself. If it is standing tall come April/May, you will see much better cash offers whichever way you want to unload it.
i'm not dealing with a salesperson, i'm dealing with the internet department. all i said to the him AFTER getting the price was that i wanted to get the car appraised. whatd you think, i walked in with no idea of what a fair price for the car is, only with my trade value in mind, and then confided in the SALESMAN about how much i dont like the car? give me a break.
you yourself said that the car is between rough and fair condition. rough conditoin TMV is 5600 dollars, fair is 6200, and good is 7600. My car only needs about 1000 dollars worth of work to qualify as good. So yeah, maybe it's a good idea to fix it myself. But if i do, I don't think 7g is top dollar. I can read what qualifies for what condition just as well as you can. KBB for a private party sale (dealers might not use KBB, but many buyers do) for that car in good condition is 9 thousand dollars, so around 8 after negotiations. Dealers will turn around and try to sell it for more than that. You can check the prices yourself.
Volvos are expensive to maintain and have terrible resale value. The interiors are very Ford, which isn't surprising if you consider Volvo is owned by Ford. Stick with Japanese or German products if you want a premium SUV.
I work at a dealership that specializes in used cars such as yours and I can tell you that that dkuhadja is not bluffing you.
$6000 is a very generous offer. Even in the middle of the hot summer with your car fixed up, you will not see anything close to $10,000 for it from a private seller. $8000? Maybe if you fix every single little thing with your car and have it professionally detailed and you find a young female college student who has had a few margaritas and a check from daddy. In other words, don't hold your breath for it.
A rental car is very undesirable. I hope you do realize how people drive rental cars, especially a sporty convertible car such as a Mustang. Even if it had proper maintenance as most rental cars do, it was driven hard and it is impossible to know what could be wrong with the car now.
And why is there such a huge difference between what you are telling me and what the TMV/KBB/NADA (theyre all different but still way higher) is for my car, even in "rough" shape?
THIS IS ALWAYS TRUE OF ANY PRODUCT, especially vehicles.
As the others have said, if you want top dollar, your vehicle must be in the best possible condition.
"Book" value means little. Here's an example: I'm buying a very nice 2003 VW New Beetle Turbo S from a private party (original owner) for $11,500. It comes with all service records from new, no damage history, and has 31,000 miles. Its "book" trade value is about $13,000 and any dealer would be asking $16-17,000.
Now, why is the owner letting it go so cheap? He'd been trying to sell through Auto Trader or the like since September. He started at $15,500 and has come down over time without any takers. He's tired of making payments on it. At $11,500, it's a good buy for me. At $12,000 or more I would have passed.
Bottom line - market establishes price, not some book.
A big online auction site has completed cash bid prices as follows (in other words what someone was willing to pay today for the car):
2001 58K $7500
2001 69K $7100
2001 75K $6500
2001 63K $10,000 (special body kit edition)
2001 43K $10,900
2002 27K $11,900
2002 63K $7,600
2001 GT 17K $12,100
2002 GT 12K $13,400
It needs noted that none of these were located where they was any white stuff on the ground, probably all winter.
$6,000 real cash money as-is, someone needs to be there.
I agree 100% with your statement "I will never consider trading a car". You will always do better in a private sale. Yeah, in the "tax difference" states, trading can save you some tax money. But it rarely comes close to offsetting the extra money you'll get by selling it yourself.
But you also said "I'll never shop at the dealers I previously worked with"...?? Just because they offered you wholesale for your vehicle? Friend, they ALL do that. That's what car dealers do! They pay you wholesale, and they sell for retail. That doesn't make them bad people, it makes them car dealers. Your objective is to be an informed consumer, and try to pay as much below retail as possible! Let them make their profit on some other turkey.
In addition to the tax savings, the other benefit is the simplcity of just trading a car in. A lot of people would rather give up $1000 in order to not deal with the hassle of selling a car on their own: reconditioning, taking pictures, listing in paper or on the internet, getting calls from strange people, letting strange people take test drives, working up a sale with strange people, etc. Sometimes it's just easier to trade it in, which is why people still do it.
But you also said "I'll never shop at the dealers I previously worked with"...?? Just because they offered you wholesale for your vehicle? Friend, they ALL do that. That's what car dealers do! They pay you wholesale, and they sell for retail. That doesn't make them bad people, it makes them car dealers. Your objective is to be an informed consumer, and try to pay as much below retail as possible! Let them make their profit on some other turkey.
It's not just car dealers that "buy wholesale, sell retail." Umm, it's every retail business! Are you going to boycott your local supermarket or electronics store or every other store in the nearby shopping center? They all probably "bought wholesale, sold retail." It's our capitalistic corporate world... The American Dream. :P