Real-World Trade-In Values

dkuhajda · March 2006

I wonder if he would be better off finding a nicely used but well maintained Town Car or similar for a few thousand and keep the TC for work.

This might be less expensive in the long run than the depriciation hit on the TC and then on the newer Town Car.

I see lots of really good condition 90K mile 5 year old Town Cars. Rear wheel drive in the snow? in any case snow tires for the TC would also have helped. Have fun!!!

Not to mention all the '93-'95 Oldsmobiles that were owned by Grandma and have 60K on them that are under $3,900.

splatsterhound · March 2006

Three kids in the Scion? That's nuts. Did you put one in the trunk? The lincoln is a no-brainer. People without kids never understand the need to have a bigger car :sick:

rroyce10 · March 2006

.. **Hi Terry, I need some help figuring out what these might be worth. I'm looking at some '05 and '06 Outback XT Limited Wagons all located at a Subie dealer in MA. This model has the 250hp STI 2.5L 4-cyl turbo motor in them. Also, being XT Limited's they all come pretty much loaded including leather, dual sunroof, complete cold weather setup. Plus, they all have a meat cleaver 5-spd, the only way to own one of these IMHO. All of them are like new in/out condition with no visible damage.
>>>Now for the stuff that differentiates them:
'05 Black w/black, 12K miles, asking $25K
'05 Gold w/taupe, 5.6K miles, asking $26K
'06 Black w/black, 11 miles... I repeat 11 miles, asking $27K
>>>I'm told the '06 is a "program" car whatever that means, with a new title. Although its warranty started ticking a few weeks ago when it was bought by the dealership. They actually have a bunch of the '06's all with under 15 miles... all priced at $27K with a manual or $28K with an auto... what gives???... could these be hurricane specials or something???
Thanks for any guidance you can provide.
~Jo
=========================

For starters ... let me explain what a "program car" is, because that term gets used and abused all the time ....

Most times (not all) a program car/truck is going to be the vehicle that a zone rep drove, actually any employee that works for the manufacturer or affiliated via advertising or suppliers ....

(example only) if you look at some of the parking lots at the Ford assembly plants, you might see dozens of Volvo S80's or Jags or Mazda's that are parked in a certain area ... it's called the "B" lot, and these were driven by Ford/Jag/Mazda reps in the field, then offered to the employee's at the plant for "X" amount of dollars ... if they don't sell, they're off to the auction and sold from there -- that doesn't make them good and that doesn't make them bad, it's just the way things are done ... and if you look at Carsmack, it shows the orgination of the title out of Allen Park (MI) which happens to be Fords fleet/zone/employee department ...

Another good example would be the Tiger Woods commercials .. when he wins, they pull a winners name and that person gets his Buick Lucerne ... there is also another 40/50 sitting in the parking lot that are used by PGA officials, other Pro's and other officials like at Bay tree and the TPC .... and dealers in the area will buy these and some might have 200 miles, some might have 14,000 miles, who knows ... but it will show as a "corporate" vehicle ... a "program car" is not a rental from Hertz or a vehicle that has been titled after corporate use ..

Anywaaay ... now that I've bored you into a coma and I'm going to be late for my workout ... the 05's might have in and around the $20/21ish figure and the 06 is a "11 mile" mystery ..... if your going to search for vehicles, get a monthly subscription for Carsmack ($25.?) and pull the Vin#'s on each and everyone .... with Katrina and other unpleasant things in life it's always better to be safe than sorry ...

Do you have any idea how many customers have looked me in the eye and said ... "I bought this car new and it's never been in an accident" ..... In the meantime, I pull the Carsmack and they're the 3rd owner and it's been in 2 accidents .. the last one being 6 months ago.! ........ Altzheimers maybe.?? ..l.o.l.....

I'm thinkin' you need to go new ......

Terry.

robr2 · March 2006

They actually have a bunch of the '06's all with under 15 miles... all priced at $27K with a manual or $28K with an auto... what gives???... could these be hurricane specials or something???

They could be tornado specials - the factory in Indiana was in the area of some tornados late last year. Some of these vehicles are now showing up at dealer lots as used.

qbrozen · March 2006

sorry, sluri, i didn't get back here till today and just now saw your question.

Well, let's assume a $12.5k trade price on a good day ... you could ASK $13,995 or even $14,495 ... and kick it to the curb for the first $13,500 that comes along ...

HOWEVER, does your state allow you a tax break for trading it in? here in Jersey, if I get $12,500 on my trade, that is about $750 less tax I have to pay on the new car. So, effectively, I get $13,250 on that trade ... there is no way I'm spending the money on advertising and dealing with deadbeat tire kickers to make a couple hundred bucks. I'd gladly trade that in.

That's me, though. I have a certain line I draw. Usually, if a car I'm trading is $10k or more, I feel I'll take the trade-in price (plus the tax savings) rather than go through the hassle of selling it myself.

jaserb · March 2006

I've seen the same thing at a dealer in my area - Outbacks and Legacys with < 15 miles sold as used. The tornado thing certainly seems possible - hail damage, maybe?

-Jason

ricoco · March 2006

Tucson, AZ
1997/Toyota/Camry LE
4 dr sedan
4 cylinder/auto
FWD
69578 miles
gray/brown interior/ gray exterior
moon roof (doesn't work)
spoiler (paint fading)
Superior wheels
Anti-theft auto alarm
keyless entry
trunk lid doesn't line up perfectly with body -- not due to an auto accident-- but it stays closed and doesn't leak
gasket missing from transmission shift control, otherwise interior in good condition
exterior has scratches
tires have 80% of tread left
brakes good
routine maintainance, low mileage in last year
engine mounts bad, but safe to drive car

I would appreciate a quick response. I posted this last week, but didn't receive a response. Thank you very much for your time, effort, and expertise.

Elise

sluri · March 2006

Thank you for your reply and advice. I would be leasing the new vehicle so it wouldn't matter to me with the tax. But I will push these dealers until they give in.
thanks a million :shades: again
sluri

robbieg · March 2006

Looking for an opinion. My father is about due for a new to him car. Basically, he wants a v6 or v8 and would prefer if it isn't any older than a 2002. A car with a little bit of luxury wouldn't be bad. He puts on about 20,000 miles a year and therefore would like for the car to be reliable for at least the next 4 years. He would like to spend 16,000 to 18,000. Any suggestions?

qbrozen · March 2006

well, i'm a bit biased with this suggestion, but he could easily get an '02 Lincoln LS-V8 with low miles in that range. Should even be certified.

My other suggestion is a Volvo (again, a bit biased). Although its a 5-cyl in the S60, you wouldn't know it by driving it (especially the T5, which you could easily get an '02 with low miles in your range). Or he could step up to an S80 and get the 6-cyl. It might be tough to get an '02 S80 T6 under your cap, but not impossible.

au1994 · March 2006

Add me to the list of seeing Outback's like this. Local dealer has an LL Bean Edition w/11 miles on his used lot for 29800. Same car over on the new side is listed at 33.

breld · March 2006

My Mother-in-law is looking to trade in her Lexus RX300 for a new RX330 this week, to take advantage of the "2006 Closeouts," with the new RX350 being introduced.

So, Terry, I'd certainly appreciate your advice on what a fair trade would be on this, as well as private party value, if we decide to go that route:

In DENVER,

1999 Lexus RX300 AWD
130k miles
White exterior/tan leather
Pretty much loaded with options available at the time:
Moonroof, tow package, Nakamichi audio, heated seats
It was in a parking lot accident. Not severe, but the front bumper was replaced. Repairs were done well.
Overall, nice condition for its age - no dents or dings, but some rock chips on the front. Tires only have about 5,000 miles on them.

What do you think? Thanks a bunch!

Bruce

butchbr73 · March 2006

Repost, just out of curiousity....

Hey Terry,
Hope all is well with you.. its been awhile since I've posted here, been a little busy w/ new job, kid, house, etc... but checked in every once in awhile for smiles. Playing much golf lately? Did you ever pull the trigger on a house in NC or are you still lingering around north FL? or both?

Anyways, I pulled the trigger last week on an '05 G35. Traded in the black I35. Here's the details for your information...

bought '05 G35 sedan auto rwd. Black w/ black interior. typical options, heated seats, etc... 21,000 miles. great condition, really well kept, hardly a scratch on it. Certified used Infiniti dealership Infinity.

Traded '02 I35. black w/ black interior. well equipped, including the heated seats, steering wheel. 58,xxx miles. few scratches and knicks here and there and on the front, probably typical for a 4-year old car. was going to need new tires soon plus typical maintenance when you start reaching the 60-70k mile range. Everything else was decent shape, it was a certified used from Infiniti when I bought it so it still had some warranty left.

OTD $27,5 w/ taxes and all. Written up as even wash on trade/payoff ($14k on payoff/trade allowance). paying $26,4 for the G35 plus taxes, tags, etc... on the difference.

East Tennessee area.

felt it was fair for both parties....
thanks.
butchbr73

stickguy · March 2006

Help for a friend, so sorry about th eskimpy details. This might be a Matias question anyway!

SO, a friend is trying to help 2 co-workers with a deal. One guy is selling a T bird, the other wants to buy it, and they are looking for a reasonably unbiased opinion to make sure it is a fair deal.

All I know is that it is a 1-owner '95 Bird with 184K on it, and the owner is truly anal about maintenance, so the car looks like it has closer to 84K than 184K.

So, assuming it is super clean, no hits/runs/errors, and checks out mechanically (tires good, no immediate needs), is $1,600 a fair price all around?

I know that once you get close to 1K mostly you find junk, so this might be a slight premium, but you are paying for history and care on this one.

All opinions welcome!

Oh, it is in N. Jersey, where everything always costs more (except for gas).

geo9 · March 2006

STICK..........last year I got my NY nephew a 95?
Bird V-8 loaded 48k miles from a older fella near
my aunts house in so. jersey for $2000.
Ford dealer offered him $500 on a new Focus trade !
The kid wanted a Z-28 or TA but all the ones we looked
at were whipped !

Last day we were there the kid relented and settled on
the T-bird. 1 WOT changed his mind !

Not 1 problem in a bit over a year !!!!!!!!!

jlawrence01 · March 2006

If the car runs well, it is very likely a pretty good deal.

However, do realize that you are buying a car with 185k miles vehicle. Perhaps the car will last 2-3 years and you will get your money's worth. However, do realize that the vehicle COULD die within the 1st 10k miles.

If the person can accept the financial risk, do it. It the person needs an extremely reliable car that "MUST" make it to work, I would take a pass.

virgiesmom · March 2006

Terry---UPDATE
>****************************************************
... **Terry.... We have found at a Lexus dealer 2002 Lexus GS300, white, 27,000mi, fully equipped, gold badging except no Mark Lev audio. Dealer has attached CPO label. Asking $29,999. Haven't been to see it yet. Located in Greensboro, NC area
What are your thoughts before we take a trip to see/deal?
What is your thought on what we should start with as an offer and what might it take for us to come home with this one?
=======================

Greensboro, huh....?

02 GS300 with 27k .... sounds like it might be a nice one ..... the miles are way way low, the color is right right right and we got a little CPO action .......... if -- the rubber is from yesterday, the history is right, the service is complete and the paint is puuuurfect and it needs -0- ..... then the dealer probably paid the mid/tall $20ish figure, maybe even dropped hard into the low $21ish figure ... figure some service - $300, maybe some rubber - $250, a this and that - $200, and lets drop the CPO in there - $1,100 .... so it probably hits the table at in and around the super tall $22,8ishishishish figure .......

$29,990 ......? .. nice vehicle, but that's a little on the steep side .. I'm guessing there's a new Corum watch in the console...?

If it's truly a nice one, a real CPO and no paint by numbers ... then you should be able to snatch this one for in and around the $25ish range .....

Good luck and let me know ........

**********************************************************

`Thought I'd update: pulled the trigger yesterday on this one. Wife and I ventured about 100 miles to the particular Lexus dealer. This 2002 GS300 was "pristine" actually had only 25,200 miles, "Carsmack" had no issues, pulled the service records (all complete/on time), new tires, used the 'paint tester' over all the car, it is 'certified' CPO, local owner .... I tried to follow your guidelines. Was listed at 29,990 able to get it for 27,100 before taxes and tags. Wife very satisfied with it. I was satisfied with the whole process and final price. Took all of 3 1/2 hours and she was driving it home behind me!!
Thanks for the help!

geo9 · March 2006

BTW: If that bird is a v-8 (v-6s too?) have a mechanic
do a cooling system pressure check. Those year(s) and up ford/merc/lincolns have the famous composit (spl) aka plastic intake manifolds which crack and leak........

tdoma · March 2006

I have come accross a used car place in Metro ATL GA, that has a 2K Q45.
Details:
106K Miles
JNKBY31A4YM302078
Cashmere
Spoiler
Heated, dual power seats.
Anniversary Edition
Decent tires
Bozo audio.
The shop is asking $12.5K for it.
Is this a good and fair price?

kfranci2 · March 2006

Location: Twin Cities, MN
Year/Make/Model: 2005 Honda CRV EX
Engine: 2.4L 5-speed manual
Driveline: AWD
Mileage: 11K
Color: Silver Moss Ext/Black Interior
Major Options: All EX options moonroof, alloys, 6-disc, power everything, no aftermarket options
Condition:
Good, looks like it did when we bought it last June except a kid keyed it parked on the street last weekend. Want to sell the car private-party after having body shop fix key scratch. Am wondering what these things really pull in the private market. Paid $21,5K for it in June '05 and blue book is telling me $19,9K is a fair asking price for good condition private party. What kind of real money would you guys expect to see this car get? Reason we are selling is one of us got a job downtown and is taking the bus everyday instead of driving, car just doesn't get used. Thanks for your advice!

agc · March 2006

I am looking at getting a new minivan and was wondering what my two minivans are worth (trying to decide which one to trade in). Thanks in advance

Location: NYC/NJ
Year/Make/Model: 2003/GMC/Safari
Body Style: Minivan
Engine: 4.3 liter, 6 cylinder, auto
Driveline: AWD
Mileage: 34000
Color: pewter/beige
Major Options: SLE, alloys
Condition: very good
Tires - 20% worn
Other: No damages, clean Carfax

Location: NYC/NJ
Year/Make/Model: 2002/Chrysler/Town & Country
Body Style: Minivan
Engine: 6 cylinder, auto
Driveline: AWD
Mileage: 36000
Color: white/beige
Major Options: EX, alloys, leather, power sliders/rear hatch
Condition: very good
Tires - 20% worn
Other: No damages, clean Carfax

toomanyfumes · March 2006

The '95 t-birds don't have the composite intake manifold. The '97's do: not sure about the '96's. The V-6 models from about that year have the head gasket problems. The '95's don't have the best tranny though, I change the fluid every 30k to keep it from shuddering at low rpm's.

geo9 · March 2006

TOO..Sure about that? Can't recall if it is a 5.0 or 4.6.
But my wrench head bud said to have it done because of that
reason........
Nice car for $2k tho...............

dozer · March 2006

Sorry Terry, I certainly didn't mean to get in the way of a healthy lifestyle (i.e. workout). I've been doing 12 ounce curls myself all week while on business in Ann Arbor... nice town by the way.

Anywho, I just can't say thanks enough for the Car Smarts 101 lesson from a pro like yourself. Oh yes indeed, I will be pulling Vin's on these puppy's and running them through Carfax.

The "story" the dealer actually gave me went something like these babies were on a train that got caught in a "wind storm"... he didn't actually say "tornado". Since some were damaged, the whole lot was sold off to dealers at discount prices. Of course, he got the good ones that were protected in the middle of the pack...

I must say, I didn't see anything wrong with any of the ones he had. But, now that I'm hearing from others about some tornado action near the Subie plant, the whole story is suddenly sounding a bit more plausible... well, the wind storm part anyway. So, assuming they did come from a special damaged goods sale... do you have any idea what kind of discount Subaru would have sold these tumbleweed edition models to the dealers for?

~Jo

stoneybroke · March 2006

I'd like to trade my 03 Sequoia Limited AWD, no damage, roof, gray leather, premium sound, all bags, tow package, spoiler 3rd seat. Color is silver with 29K. Tires are about 50%. Office moved to new building, can't get in the parking garage with 75"ht. Looking at Infiniti Q35x and Honda Pilot. Can you give me some real world trade values? I'm located in PA. Thanks, Stoney

kmaurer · April 2006

Terry,

Hope you can give me a trade-in estimate for the following vehicle:

Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Year/Make/Model: 2004 Chevrolet Malibu LS
Body Style: 4 dr sedan
Engine: 3.5 liter V6, 4 speed automatic trans
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 31,625
Color: Medium Gray Metallic
Major Options: None (standard equipment)
Condition: Few rock chips on hood/bumper (small, about 5 chips total), no dings or dents, freshly waxed. Interior - like new, professionally detailed (no stains, etc). Tires: 8/32 remaining, 6mm remaining on lowest brake pad. Have full maintenance records (serviced at dealership). No prior damage to vehicle. Windows are tinted with 3M tint (lifetime warranty).

Thank you in advance for your help,

Kyle

robr2 · April 2006

Tornado Specials - one other thing: IIRC, Subaru has voided any paint warranty with these units so look carefully.

dozer · April 2006

Thanks robr2, I will... btw, where did you get this info? It might be helpful to have a reference in my hip pocket when I talk to the dealer.

rroyce10 · April 2006

.... **Sorry Terry, I certainly didn't mean to get in the way of a healthy lifestyle (i.e. workout). I've been doing 12 ounce curls myself all week while on business in Ann Arbor... nice town by the way...**
======================

Working out is good .. then I like to smoke a pack of cigarettes and drink a bottle or two of some nice Australian Chardonnay, just to keep it even ..l.o.l...

It's kinda hard to put a figure on these .... in a similiar situation .. when the hurricanes hit in Florida, some needed $2,000 of paint and/or repair, a few needed $50 bucks worth and some only needed $300 .... it all depended on where the vehicle was at ..

If I were you (and I'm not) ..... once I narrowed down the search on those 2 or 3 particular Subu's I felt comfortable with .. I would just ask for the past history and the current paint and body history .... if it's being sold as a MSO vehicle they have to disclose it ... if it ends up *not* being a MSO vehicle (like someone mentioned above) it might not have a factory warranty to cover the paint - and you don't want to find that out 15/25 months down the road, like some of the BMW owners did a few years back .... "and some", may not have any factory warranty and the dealer "might" maybe be adding a warranty and that will increase the cost ....

Now that I printed all that, I would just go new ..... now if the difference is $6,000/$7,000 then I *might* entertain the pre-owned/tornado/Maaco style/let's do some paint by numbers routine - maybe.

Ann Arbor is a cool little town .... lotsa nice lookin' little aaahh, uhh, hmm, shops around there ..l.o.l.....

Terry.

rroyce10 · April 2006

.... But hey .... spending the time and watching Tiger and the rest play last week was big fun, not many of those private course tickets flying around the planet .....

Terry :P

PS: that means REPOST ..................

butchbr73 · April 2006

Repost, just out of curiousity....

Hey Terry,
Hope all is well with you.. its been awhile since I've posted here, been a little busy w/ new job, kid, house, etc... but checked in every once in awhile for smiles. Playing much golf lately? Did you ever pull the trigger on a house in NC or are you still lingering around north FL? or both?

Anywho, I purchased an '05 G35 a week or so ago. Traded in the black I35. Here's the details for your information...

bought '05 G35 sedan auto rwd. Black w/ black interior. typical options, heated seats, etc... 21,000 miles. great condition, really well kept, looks new. It is Certified. It was a local trade at their dealership on a new Infiniti, one of their "high volume" clients.

Traded '02 I35. black w/ black interior. well equipped, including the heated seats, steering wheel. 58,xxx miles. few scratches and knicks here and there on the sides (w/ black, you can see them all) and those pesky Nissan rock knicks on the front, but probably "typical" for a 4-year old car. It needed new tires shortly plus the maintenance when you start reaching the 60k mile range. Everything else was decent shape, interior was clean, it was a certified used from Infiniti when I bought it so it still had some certification left.

Difference figure was rouhly $12k. Paid $26,4 for G, traded I for ~$14,4, plus you get the nice tax credit in TN.

East Tennessee area.

felt it was fair for both parties....
thanks.
butchbr73

butchbr73 · April 2006

...."not many of those private course tickets flying around the planet ..... "

you weren't where i think you were....?

audreym · April 2006

Up there in Iggles territory ... not far from where I was married, in Bethleham (many moons ago) ... good description, thanks.

In the meantime ..... we got this little ol' 03 VW Passat GLX with 48k .. the miles are a little on the tall side, we got the auto thing, the color is great if your a tree hugger, we got some new round things and stoppers, we have a brisk wind in the backseat and we have a cold butt, let's not forget a baby meteorite hit to the transom area ........ the warranty doesn't mean much to the dealer, maybe you can still get a percentage refund ... trade side, in and around the mid/tall $14's, might see the low low $15's on a good day ...
______________________________________________

Terry - just wanted to thank you again for all of your help. We just handed over the keys to our Passat yesterday, as our new FX35 will be in on Monday.

Of the 3 parts of the transaction (sale price, financing, and trade) I feel I did very well, so I ended up caving a little on the trade. Here are the details:

Purchase - I got $67.00 over invoice on an 06 FX35 AWD, in a market that does not seem to be handing out many deals at the moment. I actually caught one dealer's typo in an email ($1K low) and fwd it to another who met the price.

Financing - I used someone's advise and used the CostCo link to Capitol One Auto Finance. I walked in with a loan check secured at 5.6%. I asked if they could do better, and they got me down to 5.34%.

Trade - Ok, ok.. if I had put my boxing gloves on for 2 hours I could have done better, but... they looked the car over and came back with $13K. I pulled out my printouts of KBB, Edmunds TMV, 3 comps from AutoTrader, and my clean CarSmack and asked them to explain the discrepancy. KBB was the most conservative and they came in at $14K. The guy went out, came back, and gave me some story that the last Passat had sat on their lot for 8 months.. blah blah blah. I told him maybe they would do better to just take it to auction this time

Anyway, he came up to $13,500 and I got him to throw in the all season floor mats that I was going to buy out of pocket anyway ($100). We were in & out in 40 mins or so.

Since they came up a bit (I would have liked more), they were pretty aggressive with the interest rate (Infiniti does not tend to run many promotional rates), and he threw in an extra accessory, I felt it was "fair" on both sides of the table. I know their kids need to eat too... but not at a 4-star restaurant!

axiomowner · April 2006

Hi Terry,

Any info would be appreciated.

I can't believe I'm posting again. Chronic carbuyers anonymous... I need to stop eyeballing these hunks of steel.

I just saw an 04 Lincoln Towncar Ultimate that I'm considering. It would be nice to know what to expect...

Trade -in price please?
Location: Land of the Kennedy's Hyannis, MA
Year/Make/Model: 05 Scion tC (purchased 9/04)
Body Style: 2dr
Engine: 2.4 liter auto
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 14400
Color: [exterior - Azure Pearl/interior - Black leather]
Major Options: Katzkin black leather, all-weather mats, mudgaurds, wheel locks.
Condition:
Couple of small scratches from who knows where.. Interior is clean. No bumper cars, gummie bears, or Teddy bridge jumps.
Tires - rotated at 10K. They seem 20%? worn. But, not sure how long these puppies last.
Brakes - good
Maintenance - all maintenance on time at dealer.

Wishing to buy:
Location: Hyannis, MA
Year/Make/Model: 04 Lincoln Towncar Ultimate
Body Style: 4dr
Engine: 8 cylinder, auto
Driveline: RWD
Mileage: 17,000
Color: cashmere?
Major Options: climate controled seats, chrome wheels, 6 CD mach audio. Orig MSRP 47K.
Condition:
dealer did a great conditioning on this one. Looks fab.
Tires - 30% worn?
Brakes - good
Maintenance - should be up to date.
Price: $21,999

The online rags are quoting suspiciously high trade-ins...

Thanks in advance.

breld · April 2006

===============
My Mother-in-law is looking to trade in her Lexus RX300 for a new RX330 this week, to take advantage of the "2006 Closeouts," with the new RX350 being introduced.

So, Terry, I'd certainly appreciate your advice on what a fair trade would be on this, as well as private party value, if we decide to go that route:

In DENVER,

1999 Lexus RX300 AWD
130k miles
White exterior/tan leather
Pretty much loaded with options available at the time:
Moonroof, tow package, Nakamichi audio, heated seats
It was in a parking lot accident. Not severe, but the front bumper was replaced. Repairs were done well.
Overall, nice condition for its age - no dents or dings, but some rock chips on the front. Tires only have about 5,000 miles on them.

What do you think? Thanks a bunch!

Bruce
===================
So, my mother-in-law pulled the trigger this past Friday. Got $9,000 trade-in on the 1999 RX300 described above, and what I thought was a very good price on the new RX330 (right at dealer invoice). The $9,000 was what KBB is showing for a "good" condition vehicle like hers, so since it seems we rarely get KBB, I thought that was a pretty good deal.

So, here's my question for Terry or others in the dealership business:

My mother-in-law is having regrets now over trading in the RX300, thinking that she should have just kept it.

Given that this was done this past Friday, what is the likelihood that she could go to the dealership, say she actually would like to keep her trade, and pay the trade-in value and simply get her car back?

Also - we negotiated $9,000 on the trade and $40,000 for the new car. I feel these numbers were independent of each other, since the $40k price was simply a match of a competing dealer's advertised price. I noticed on the paperwork that the dealership grossed up each of those numbers, showing a trade value of $14k and sale price for the new car of $45k. I've seen this before and recognized it, and didn't really care, since of course it has no effect for the buyer. But 1) why exactly do they do this? and 2) if they do indeed allow us to "buy" back the trade, would they want that grossed up amount?

Thanks for any advice.

steine13 · April 2006

Likelihood of them selling it back to you? I'm guessing 10%. I think $9 is all the cookies in the cookie jar, but there are people out there who would love to be "seen" in a $35k Lexus and can only afford an older, miled-up one. So if the car is in good shape -- and it sounds like it is -- then it's a wonderful vehicle to put somebody into for $325/month for 48 months and $2k down... and I don't think they'd like to get rid of it.

since of course it has no effect for the buyer.

It would make a lot of difference here in MI, where sales tax is due on the new car and not on the difference. $14k is not necessarily what they "feel" they have in it... but it may be what's on their books.

How does dealership accounting work? Once it's on the buyer's order, is that how it must be entered?

Anyway, my guess is you won't get it back.

-Mathias

corvette · April 2006

130,000 miles? It's probably already off to the auction. If the dealer owns a used-car-only store, it might be there, but probably not still at the Lexus dealer lot.

british_rover · April 2006

You can enter whatever you want on the buyers order it is the ACV that is in the back of the system that really matters. They just overallowed on the trade by 5,000 dollars and did no discount on the new car. I guess this saved them a little bit of money on the tax side but that is it. We don't like doing the overallowance thing since we truly try to keep the trade in and new car purchase as two seperate transactions. When we do on occasion overallow it is used to get the trade in value up to the next whole thousand level. For example if a car is valued at say $19,500 we might show the customer $20,100 cause psychologicaly that just looks much better then $19,500.

breld · April 2006

Thanks for all the quick responses folks.

Sounds like we're probably out of luck on getting the trade back, which doesn't necessarily surprise me. But, at least it sounds like we got a good value for it on the trade, which is always nice.

I think my Mother-in-law will call today and just ask with the mindset, the worst they can say is no. They seem to have several of the older RX300's on their used lot. Maybe they just as soon "unload" this one if they haven't put anything into it yet (dealerships are closed on Sundays here in Colorado, so maybe they haven't gotten to it).

It would make a lot of difference here in MI, where sales tax is due on the new car and not on the difference. $14k is not necessarily what they "feel" they have in it... but it may be what's on their books.

Not any difference on the gross-up here in CO - sales tax paid on the difference.

It's funny, my mother-in-law started having the regrets over the weekend on not keeping the trade - saying that it was a good car to run around town in, pick up the grandkids from daycare, go on roadtrips....

"So, when exactly do you plan on driving this new car?" I asked her.

biancar · April 2006

"Buyer's remorse" can be such a sad, sad thing! Is she nervous about the car payments or about taking that big chunk of money out of her savings? Guessing that m-i-l is maybe looking at living on a fixed income sooner rather than later, maybe that's the source of her anxiety.

Don't know if she's going on logic or on emotion right now, but maybe you can ask her if she can imagine feeling safer with the grandkids in a newer car, better safety features than the old one (if that's true), covered under warranty for a few years, and so on.

Also point out she'll never get more for her trade than she just did. If she waits another year a new car would likely cost even more, and her trade would be worth even less.

robr2 · April 2006

Do a message text search here at Edmunds for subaru tornado and you'll see talk of it.

black_tulip · April 2006

Is she nervous about the car payments or about taking that big chunk of money out of her savings?

If I read the original message correctly, MIL wants to keep the new car and get the trade back. So, money is not an issue.

qbrozen · April 2006

well, since you're in MA, I think my subscription to Galves this month could help you and maybe help alleviate Terry's burden a bit .... here goes.

Your Scion should be hit by the dealer right around that $14k number.

The Towncar Ultimate ... oddly enough, "ultimate" leaves room for the moonroof as an option ... weird. Well, without the moonroof, you're looking at $20,500 trade-in ... the slider adds another $800.

obviously, you need to do the math and see what the "difference" should be ... if the Lincoln is certified, you could offer about $2k-$2500 on top of that trade-in value ... only about $1500 if not. good luck. Man, talk about a change of heart. A tiny economy coupe to a HUGE luxo sedan!

breld · April 2006

That's correct - my MIL is happy about the new RX330 she bought, but is having some regret over not also keeping her old RX300.

Yes, it has almost 130k miles on it, but for $9k, it'd be a great second car, if that's what she wants. And she's taken very good care of it, so it probably has lots of life left on it. In fact, I considered buying it myself to have for those snowy days here in Denver.

I'll let you all know how it turns out. Thanks.

stoneybroke · April 2006

I'd like to trade my 03 Sequoia Limited AWD, no damage, roof, gray leather, premium sound, all bags, tow package, spoiler 3rd seat. Color is silver with 29K. Tires are about 50%. Office moved to new building, can't get in the parking garage with 75"ht. Looking at Infiniti Q35x, Nissan Murano and Honda Pilot. All of the above will sticker at about 40K. Can you give me some real world trade values? I'm located in PA. Thanks, Stoney

black_tulip · April 2006

I completely understand. We just hated to part with our Camry with over 200K miles, but just did not have room for three cars.

todd59 · April 2006

Please help. I've gotten Black book, blue book, NADA, and Edmunds values. Now how about the REAL Value.

Central Illinois
2000/Ford/Ranger
X-cab/XLT/Sport/ 4 door
3.0L flex fuel
34,000
Black/Gray
Alloys, all power, nice $$$ tonneau cover, high back buckets, console.
Condition:
Clean, interior VGC,exterior: paint very shiny, a few rock chips, brakes okay, tires ~50%

No wrecks/repaints

Thanks :P

breld · April 2006

Here's an update, if anyone's interested:

My MIL decided not to hassle with it, and just to enjoy (and drive) her new RX330, and not worry about trying to get her RX trade back.

But, as she was finalizing her financing, the person at the bank offered to call "just to see." Basically, the used car manager insisted that $9k was not what my MIL was given for her trade, and that it was $14k (which was the grossed up amount on the contract). Then he "relented" and said that the trade value was $11k, and that we got $3,700 off the new car. None of it mattered, 'cause he said the trade was already at the auction.

What we had negotiated was indeed $9k on the trade and $5,700 off the new car. Again, I thought these represented fair and independent numbers, as the trade value was consistent with KBB, and the new car price was a match of a competitor's advertised price. Meaning, we would have purchased the new car for that price regardless of the trade.

Having said all that, I know none of the "grossing up" done by the dealer really matters, as only the "difference" number is important. It only mattered because of these unusual circumstances where my MIL had second thoughts on the trade.

But, it made me think - is it possible the used car manager really had no idea of the $9,000 number? Like it was represented to him that it was higher, so that he believes they have "more in it" and, as a result, needs to get "more out of it"?

I'm just very intrigued at how the dealership business works.

Sorry for the rant. Thanks. As Jim Rome says, "I'm out."

woodyww · April 2006

With all due respect: trying to get your trade-in "back" from a dealer, after the deal is done, is nuts. You'd probably be better off just shopping for another RX with 130K miles, if you really have to have one. You really need to know what you're doing before going into a car dealership.....

woodyww · April 2006

I'd echo Nancy Reagan, & "just say no" to these "tornado action Subie's". It's probably gonna come back & bite you, in one way or another, if you buy one.

Real-World Trade-In Values

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