Well, the CPO "premium" is the manufacturers warranty and the reconditioning necessary to get the warranty. That can be expensive,depending on the manufacturer. It goes to the cost of the car and can't be conceded.
I myself am also on my second MDX and after receiving $20K trade for my 2003 back in 2006, I saw it listed online the next week Certified for $26,995. I know dealers bank on used car profit margins because it's so hard to gauge.
Weel, the dealers final cost on that car wasn't $20 grand. Figure the CPO warranty cost them AT LEAST a grand. Plus probably another $700-1,000 in recon. so, the owned the car for closer to $22k than $20k. Plus, you have to leave yourself some room for negotiating with someone whose concept of a good deal depends soley on how much they got off the car.
On your 05 MDX, depending on the model, trade is @ $18-20,000. Low mile MDX's don't grow on trees, so I doubt the dealer will take a low ball offer. $22k MIGHT get it, but I doubt it.
Obviously they put money into my old MDX past the $20K mark, understood; still saying there's good margin on used-cars.
But back to the 2005 my son wants to pick up, these responses confirmed basically what I already knew and provides a starting point...and given the low mileage, we can probably expect to pay a little more.
I off-hand don't know what the buy-out was, but I can almost guarantee it was higher than what the the car's market value is. But that is neither mine nor the dealer's problem...that's Honda Financial's if I'm not mistaken. (?)
How long before it starts snowing in Chicago, another couple of weeks?
The MDX sounds nice, super low miles, even the Touring/Nav. And it sounds like you want "that one".
However there was a 2005 MDX Touring, 36K miles that just sold on ebay for $23,299. An '06 CPO w/37K that just sold for $23K. You might want to expand your search to include newer ones; & of course a warranty never matters, "until it does"......
Woodyww, a man after my own heart. Since I can't buy a car every week, I love getting info for folks on the prowl. I do it even though nobody listens That fact won't make me stop though--- hope you don't either. Suggesting how other people spend their money never gets old.
From that list the Protege would be my first choice as well. Probably Civic 2nd.
A VW of that age would either have the 2.slow engine or the 1.8T which required that you carry around spare ignition coils (if the dealer wasn't out of them).
These have issues with torque converters, but honda/acura has been stepping up to the plate with them. I have a friend with a 2002 with 150k miles. Acura replaced the torque converter after the initial warranty was up at no charge. It now needs another and they are paying all but about $1500 for a new transmission and torque converter. I had no problems with my 05 except for a torque converter replacement at 47k miles. When you drive it, it feels like you are running over rumble strips on the side of the road at about 40mph when the torque converter kicks in and slips.
San Bernardino, CA 2004 Chevy Silverado LS 4dr Crew Cab 5.3L engine RWD 70,000 miles
Options HD Trailering Equipment, XM Satellite Radio, Locking Rear Differential, Front Fog Lamps, Rear Axle w/3.73 Ratio, Spare Tire Lock, Plastic Bed Liner, Hard Top Bed Cover, and a Car Alarm (factory installed & dealer activated)
Condition The truck belongs to my parents, so I don't really know how to rate the condition other than to say that the interior and exterior would probably qualify as "clean", but not "excellent". The condition is likely better than most 5 year old trucks. Regularly scheduled maintenance was followed. Not sure about the condition of the tires or brakes.
Other The truck was rear ended a couple of years ago. $2-3k worth of body damage. Insurance claim was filed and repairs were made. No problems since then.
NADA - $12,950 for a clean trade-in Edmunds - $10,935 for a clean trade-in KBB - $11,150 for a good trade-in Getting a Carmax appraisal tomorrow
The dealer finally listed it at their website. Now they are saying it has 25,811 miles. And they UPPED the price. Now they want $8,114 for it. They have a link to the carfax on the listing and it says the trim level is DX/LX.
I think hubby's right about them not taking the true book value of it. I'm thinking about staying with my trusty 1999 Ford Taurus even though it has 121,000 on it.
In comparision, earlier this year my husband bought a 2008 Town & Country for 15,995. That has more seating, the 2nd and 3rd fold down. Also, a DVD player, a better radio, a back up camera, a warranty, and flex fuel. I'm sure worse gas mileage though. Oh, and the mileage was only 17,000 at that time. So, the Protege price is crazy.
it sounds like an LX (LX has A/C, power windows/locks and height adjustable driver's seat).....even with the super-low miles, that price ($8k) is about twice what it's worth.....it's still an eleven year-old economy car. It cost ~$15k brand new.
Hi all, especially the ex grad student, volvomax, and axeteria who have helped me out so much over the past few days: I AM EXTREMELY GRATEFUL for your opinions and advice.
Please take a look at this car and tell me what I should pay for it. This is a Mazda Protege 2003, 5 speed manual and 5 door hatchback. 123,000 miles, two owners. Seems to be in good condition. Nice thing is that Its a Mazda; not many people want to buy a Mazda. AND , its located at a dealership which mainly keeps European cars.
KBB private party: 5500 $ for good condition. he asked 6900$, but will accept 5500 as he told me on the phone.
Whats the REAL world price of this car and how much should I pay for it???
A few years ago I sold a nearly identical one of those cars but automatic with 70,000 or 80,000 miles for not much more money then what that guy is asking.
My gut says that seems high even for as funky as used car prices have gotten lately.
Actually going to look that old deal up now and get back to you.
I have been bringing up a few cars for you to tell me about and advise me about before I buy. Thank you all so much, especially volvomax, axeteira , british rover, Ex grad student, and a host of other people, whos names are being missed but their contributions not forgotten. I had posted a message, and in the replies, again, were reiterated the advice to buy something other than a Japanese econobox, with lower miles at the same price. Today, thankfully, I was able to do just that. After I posted on Cartalk, Docknick strongly advised me to go for a low miles small brand car rather than a high mile [non-permissible content removed]. As I had been doing for the past month, I put “Chevrolet Cobalt Manual” into craigslist and got a few hits. There was one which sounded pretty good. This was exactly as a poster on Cartalk had described; a senior lady, selling her rarely used car. I immediately called her and asked her about it. She said its for sale still. I asked her the VIN; she gave it to me shakily belying an inexperienced seller. I then ran an Autocheck report, score was higher than the range for similar vehicles of that year. She said its still available, and quoted me a cash price which was pretty low. I asked her what the deal was, and she said that she got divorced last year, and did not need a stick shift. Immediately I called my friend up. There was no time to lose, especially at this price. “In two years of me knowing you, I have never mentioned an emergency, if ever there is one, its now.” He said, fine, “I'll take you to her house,immediately”. I got on the bus, got off without paying the fare, and went to the nearest Chase bank. Got the cash out. Eyeballed 3 different immigrant types whom I thought were going to take my cash away. My friend was waiting from me in the car lot. I kept trying to call the lady to ensure that she allows me to see the car first. The repeated calling worked, and I arrived in a rough part of town at 630 pm. I was scared of keeping so much cash with me, especially since we had driven to a rough neighborhood. A short diminutive lady came out of the house, barking dogs kept up a din. Hi, I'm from Rice University, I spoke to you over the phone etc etc. She said, yes here is the car. She got the keys from inside the house, and then she gave them to me. I said we are leaving our car here; and we took it for a test drive. The interior was in poor shape, it had been abused by her grandson. Cigarette ashes in a ash tray etc. I was a little disappointed. There was a ding in the side of the car, which seemed like it had come in recently. A piece of plastic from the side panel had broken and was hanging loose. I was disappointed. But, the months of looking up good deals on craigslist, and discussing them with a lot of people, that Samurai training kicked in and I thought: if this little guy is mechanically sound, I think I have a good deal for the money. I asked her if I could take the car for 15 minutes for a longer drive. She hesitated. Said “ my neighbors offered me the same price that you did, and there is one more person who is offering 500$ more; but you called me first. Now if you don't like the car, it might not be the car for you, no problems” . I allowed for the fact that she was pretty senior, and a little eccentric. “Ok ma'am, its a small request. 15 minutes of a drive” I and my friend took it to one place for a mechanic, didnt find it, another place; sorry Sir we're closed. It was 615pm . A third Autozone mechanic was just coming out of his car. “Can you please take a look?” “Sorry Sir we're closed. I need to do this immediately because the deal is going go away”. “Monday Sir”. “Okay, why dont you just see the engine a little bit and see if everything looks alright”. “What year?” ; “2007”; “what model?”; “Chevy Cobalt.” “Is the check engine light on?”. “No, not at all”. “Okay then”. The mechanic peered over the open engine bay. “Its a new car, it doesn't have any leaks, you wont have any problems. Chevys last till around 75000 miles without any trouble.” “Brilliant” I thought to myself. Thank you so much, we had to get going to the old lady's house. Drove back. I saw the lady speaking on the phone with someone, telling them the vehicle number of my friends car. She was talking to the police since we had taken so long! Well. We're here ma'am. You shouldn't have called the police etc...you had my number, you should have called me first. I lost it in my answering machine, she said. I was still befuddled by her sensibilities. “Okay ma'am, I think I'll buy the car”. “Okay then” . She signed the title over, the registration was out, she gave me her registration mailer. A piece of paper served as the receipt. I paid her the cash, and she counted it out. I still have to go get her signature on form I 130 U and get the spare tyre, set of keys, and remaining receipts of maintenance. I and my friend drove back along US 59 to Rice U. The sun was just setting. Orange hues pierced my eyes in congratulation. My first car was with me, and all was well with the world. Gentlemen, I would not have been able to do this without your extensive, excellent, exhaustive support, and fantastic advice. I bow, say Namaste (I'm Indian) to you all. Thank you so much, for your help. I bought the 2007 Chevy Cobalt with 23,000 miles on it, no accidents, one owner, a price well below kbb.
Phoenix Az 2006 Miata Sport - AT 54K miles (factory warrenty ended at 50K) good condition - no accidents needs tires
I am looking at the described car at a franchised dealer (not Mazda) and am trying to determine what to offer. It has been on the lot about 2 months. Also what is the approx wholsale or auction value of this car. Thanks!
Massachusetts 2003 Nissan Murano SL AWD 115,000 miles Fair Condition - No accidents - paint chips and some small scratches Pumpkin Orange color Tires - new All maintenance up to date with receipts to prove.
Looking to trade in above described vehicle for a new Nissan Murano (2010); hopefully in the next 2 - 3 months!!
Eyeballed 3 different immigrant types whom I thought were going to take my cash away.
I'd have emailed you about this, but your address is 'private.'
Remarks like the above aren't really helpful to the general discussion; we're almost all of us immigrant types in America. Some just are more recent than others.
This is not to suggest to let political correctness get in the way of self-preservation; but as a public discussion, it's a sensitive subject.
I have a general question on trading in a car that's worth close to or equal to the vehicle you want to buy. On several occasions recently, I've e-mailed dealers offering to trade my car for a used one they have on the lot. With the trade-in value of my vehicle, I should have to pay little or nothing extra in cash to close the deal. Invariably, I get no response from these dealers.
My conclusion is that dealers really don't want to take in a trade that's equal to (or almost equal to) the value of the car they are selling. The car they have on their lot is a headache to sell and they don't want to simply replace one headache with another (especially since my car may not be the same brand as the dealership sells, causing them to send it off for auction). They would much prefer to get an all-cash buyer or one who will finance or lease through their organization.
Is the answer that simple, or am I missing something? Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Most of the inquiries I've made have been casual and I'm not at the stage where I've found a car so compelling to buy that I need to press the issue by visiting the dealer in person. Plus, I'm not keen on giving any business to a dealer that has declined to send me a response by e-mail, even if that response is a firm "no."
Actually depends on how much the trade in is worth in the real world.Post your vehicle info here for a real world trade value and then you can figure if your expected value was too low or too high and whether the dealers were basing their response with regards to your expected trade value.
If you just want an actual cash value to your vehicle,go to Carmax. they give you a written cash offer good for 7 days.
and some dealers are terrible with dealing with Emails. Either get ignored, or a canned "come on in so we can talk".
Not all dealers, just some.
I can't see why they will care about your situation. They take trade ins all the time. As long as you don't mind paying retail for their car, and taking sholesale for yours, it doesn't matter how much they are worth. Sometimes, they might even have to cut you a check.
anyway, you aren't trading car for car in that sense. you are selling them one and buying a different one, even if they prices are exactly the same, and no money will change hands.
You're absolutely right. I did put a " (sorry) " there in my other posting on cartalk, I missed it here. And well, I'm absolutely fresh off the boat; but you do understand the situation being made; I was just being honest about what happened.
Salesmen make their money off of commission. Basically, if they accept a car that is equal or greater value, they are pushing papers for no commission. Not unless it is a "hot" car that you are trading in that they can sell quickly and make a decent profit, it simply is not worth their time and effort.
That is not true. Many times customers will trade down. The selling price of the "new " car will reflect a profit. If the trade value is greater than the selling price the customer gets a check and the salesman makes a commision.
I have done plenty of deals where the trade was worth more then the new car.
In fact I just did a deal a couple of months ago where the car traded in was worth nearly double the value of the car they bought.
After a job change the customer had to downsize and just couldn't justify a nearly 900 dollar payment anymore. He traded in for a CPO Volvo and got his payment down into the mid 300 range.
I shopped a lot for these last summer, fall, winter, and spring, and saw prices drop in winter and then go down and then back up about $3000 for the same car.
That 06, last year mind you, would have been a $17k car in the summer 2008, but by mid-winter was a $15k car at best, maybe even $13.5k when incentives on new ones peaked in March/April ($5000 rebate on left over 2008s).
When the 08s were gone the prices went back up again, though, and then even higher when the weather got nice. I stopped looking because I decided to buy a new one.
I'll guess that car is priced at around $15k or so given the high-ish miles.
If you wait until the dead of winter, though, maybe January-February, I bet you find a clean one for $14k or less.
Salesmen make their money off of commission. Basically, if they accept a car that is equal or greater value, they are pushing papers for no commission. Not unless it is a "hot" car that you are trading in that they can sell quickly and make a decent profit, it simply is not worth their time and effort.
100% not true. We aren't talking about wholesaling cars here. Dealer is going to make money selling their car. The issue is whether or not the trade is really worth what the OP thinks it is.
Boston, MA 2008 Honda Civic LX 4 Door Automatic Gray 17,000 miles Excellent Condition (no dings, scratches, tires have most tread) All dealer maintenance performed
We bought a 2009 Pontiac Vibe in Aug. 2008 for just under $20,000. Dec. 26, 2008, it was smashed by another driver who hit it when it was in my mother's driveway. The repair bill was just under $10,000, right at half the purchase price of the new car. We'd driven it 4 months and had 9,000 miles on it.
We're trying to get the other driver's insurance to give us a diminished value claim.
Is it true, a wrecked car with that much damage can never be a "certified pre-owned vehicle" on the lot of a reputable dealer? Is it true CarMax won't have a repainted car on the lot or at least not one with as extensive damage as our car suffered?
We hired a Diminished Value service to estimate our loss, and it was $3,884; but the most the insurance company has offered us is offered us is $1500.
Looking at a couple of cars - 2003 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L Nav Private Owner - 2nd owner Black/black leather 106000 miles (needs timing belt service, $600 @ dealer) good condition - new tires, all maintenance records. Rear bumper replaced last year - the current owner backed into their other vehicle.
2002 Acura 3.2 TL VIN 19UUA56662A048754 Dealer owned (Mercedes dealer) 1 owner, red/tan interior. Good (not new) tires. 85k miles. Great condition - ne dents, tears, stains. I was able to verify the service history with Acura dealer.
Both are located in TN, the Honda near Nashville, the Acura in the Eastern part of the state.
Wondering what a good offer would be for both of these cars.
"What is probably happening is that dealers know your car isn't worth what you think it is and don't want to deal with that issue."
Hang on a second. I never offer up a dollar figure on my trades when I send these e-mails. I simply give a thorough description of the car and tell them I'd like to discuss a trade. The closest I came to hinting at a value recently was to suggest I might like to do a cashless exchange between my trade and a car the dealer was advertising. A smart salesperson would have gotten back to me to see if I would be willing to pay a couple thousand along with the trade (I probably would have) or would do a cashless deal on a lower-priced car. A dumb salesperson would give no response and lose a potential customer, which is what happened.
I think the real answer is that dealers are simply lazy and still arrogant. Either that, or they're suffering from depression after the "Cash for Clunkers" euphoria. They'd prefer to have a sucker walk through the door and pay their ridiculous retail used car prices with all cash or their overblown financing. They barely want to lift a finger to send your car off to an auction.
To give you an example of the attitude, last summer, one of my dealers staged a special "clinic" with some half-price maintenance services. One could assume the dealership did this to get some live prospects in the door because there were refreshments, a free gift, etc. As I waited for my car for close to an hour, I spent a lot of time examining the stock on the showroom floor. Not one salesperson came up to me to see if I was interested in doing a deal. Instead, they all sat at their desks drinking coffee and eating the customers' Danish. (BTW, after my visit, I e-mailed the dealer about one of the cars on the floor and said I was interested in trading two of my cars against it. No trade-in values or a cashless exchange were mentioned. I also got no answer back on this one. Someone probably decided that the coffee would get cold if they had to take the time to process two trades at once.)
There are too many dealers and too many cars out there for customers to have to beg for a salesperson's attention in these tough times. As far as I'm concerned, the non-respondents can go commission-less as their cars rot on the lot through the winter.
It doesn't make sense for me as well. I think you can get real world trade in value from here and then give them an offer = retail - auction value.
I think the dealer might think that your cars are not worth that much and you are more likely to reject the offer. Sometimes, when I go to purchase a new car, the dealer want to negotiate the used car first b/c he says that many time people want too much money for their used. However, if I resist just to discuss the diff, they usually don't mine as well.
Good thoughts, although I'm never the first one to mention figures during a car transaction. I never answer the dealer question, "How much do you want to pay?"
On a new car, I usually ask the salesperson to send his/her best price on a specific in-stock car in a return e-mail. If I don't get a price back or if I get no response or the usual gobbledygook, that dealership comes off the list. On a trade, I simply have the dealership look at the car and give me a price. After their prices are offered to me, I then negotiate to narrow the spread between the trade and the new car.
I hear what you're saying, but It doesn't make any sense for a dealer to try and read my mind without contacting me. After all, negotiations are about talking. If a dealer doesn't want to talk, that kind of attitude assures a sale won't happen.
I just think that, these days, any salesperson not responding to a legitimate inquiry is simply a dunce and deserves the low pay.
In most cases, I've found the so-called "best price" is only a starting point for further negotiations. It's the equivalent of going into the dealer and saying, "What can you sell me the car for?" There's almost always more room to go lower. Even recently, when I was helping my niece buy her first new car, the salesman said that his best price (given to me via e-mail) was, indeed, his best price. Later, after I walked out and we did some telephone haggling, he proceeded to knock off their bogus $239 documentation fee as a sweetener.
From your comments you seem to be very anti dealer - not a good way to get help here. Also, you obviously missed the many discussions on Doc Fees. Suffice to say that if you ask for a best price and I give it to you that is exactly what it is - so I guess you would walk.
Actually, dealers have probably done very well with my purchases over the years because I understand that a final price has to be fair for both parties. I know that they have to cover their costs and make a profit, and that I can't be unreasonable with my price target. I negotiate reasonably, stay polite and if I have to walk, I always shake hands with the salesperson and thank them for their time. Because of my behavior, I've sometimes gotten calls from these salespeople and I've bought cars because they got the message and were willing to take a little more off.
However, let's look at some of the issues: Starting with doc fees, I've read elsewhere (not here) that these can be pure profit for the dealer. A lot of dealers will negotiate a price without telling you that the doc fee (and, sometimes, other bogus fees) will be added on later. I've been told that it's pre-printed on the form and can't be removed, essentially a message to me that I should stop negotiating further. (Of course, it can be left on the form but removed from the negotiated price of the car.) One dealer also told me that if they refunded the doc fee, they would be hit with "thousands of lawsuits" from past customers who had to pay it. After a while, you get tired of hearing this stuff. Now, I think the dealer should be paid for things like acquiring the tags, including the cost of sending someone to the motor vehicle bureau. But, from what I've seen, dealers put on those charges in addition to the doc fee.
Re the non-responsiveness, any company that doesn't respond to a legitimate inquiry from a potential customer doesn't deserve to get any business from that customer. Not only will I not beg for business from a non-responsive dealer (especially in these tough times); I'll also send referrals elsewhere.
On the best price, I can't recall a time when I've ever bought a car based on the dealer's first offered price. If it's truly a negotiation, you never offer your bottom price at the beginning. This is Negotiation 101. If you are, indeed, a dealer and you offer your best price up front, a lot of customers are going to think you're stubborn when you say you can't take off a few more dollars. Any shrewd customer would walk if they have alternative dealers and cars in their area.
On retail prices of used cars at dealerships, they are simply inflated. There's always room to go lower.
I also think it's important to understand the BS that dealers still shovel in customer's faces and why some customers go into a dealership with an adversarial attitude. Recently, in negotiating for my niece's car, I was told that, "We're not making a profit on this car. We're giving you this price to build a relationship." Later, in the business manager's office as we were signing the papers, he told us that, "I always insist that my relatives and friends take the extended warranty. I want to be sure that they're protected." These kinds of remarks insult my intelligence, but I'm so anti-dealer that I smiled and shook hands with everyone and left them with a pretty nice profit at the end of the day.
Finally, if you are a dealer, I'm sure you are only too happy to sell someone a car at MSRP or provide them with inflated financing if you find they haven't done their homework or can be taken for a ride. After all, you're there to get the highest price from the customer. I'm there to get the lowest price. So if you think my remarks are anti-dealer, well, you just don't get it. You won't find me in your showroom.
The conversation in here is drifting well off-topic. This discussion is for people to post and respond to requests for trade-in value estimates. If you insist on continuing this (pointless and already beaten to death) conversation, please do so in a more appropriate topic.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
First of all, we agree on one issue - a dealer should respond to all e-mails. We do that on a regular basis. With that in mind, only about 1% ask for a negotiated price in the e-mail. Most are just surfing or have specific questions on a vehicle. I will provide a price if asked, but if pressed for a "best price" I will give just that - my best price. I do not play games. Your attitude in your posting is offensive to those who are professionals and in the business for many years. I guess it is the generalization that all dealers and their products are bogus is offensive. Of course it is my job (just as it may be in your business) to maximize profits - but because of the relationships built over the years much of my business (and that of most professionals) is repeat and referral. When done right the car business is like any business.
Thanks, Kirstie. I agree. To stay on topic, I suggest that after posters get their trade-in value on here, they read two very useful Edmunds' articles, "Confessions of a Car Salesman" and "Confessions of an Auto Finance Manager," to better understand what they might be getting into when they walk into a dealership with the trade.
Throughout this soap opera you haven't indicated what car you are trying to buy and what your trade in is. Why don't you give us that information and we can see if you are correct on your numbers? Contrary to your low opinion, salespeople don't get paid if they don't sell a car. If there is a way to make a sale, they will find it. Maybe you are way off on your estimation,maybe the tone of your email was wrong, maybe you really did run into a really lazy salesperson.
Comments
How much of the CPO premium can dealers concede?
Well, the CPO "premium" is the manufacturers warranty and the reconditioning necessary to get the warranty. That can be expensive,depending on the manufacturer. It goes to the cost of the car and can't be conceded.
Weel, the dealers final cost on that car wasn't $20 grand.
Figure the CPO warranty cost them AT LEAST a grand. Plus probably another $700-1,000 in recon. so, the owned the car for closer to $22k than $20k.
Plus, you have to leave yourself some room for negotiating with someone whose concept of a good deal depends soley on how much they got off the car.
On your 05 MDX, depending on the model, trade is @ $18-20,000. Low mile MDX's don't grow on trees, so I doubt the dealer will take a low ball offer. $22k MIGHT get it, but I doubt it.
But back to the 2005 my son wants to pick up, these responses confirmed basically what I already knew and provides a starting point...and given the low mileage, we can probably expect to pay a little more.
I off-hand don't know what the buy-out was, but I can almost guarantee it was higher than what the the car's market value is. But that is neither mine nor the dealer's problem...that's Honda Financial's if I'm not mistaken. (?)
Thanks all.
Which is also why the car will cost more.
The MDX sounds nice, super low miles, even the Touring/Nav. And it sounds like you want "that one".
However there was a 2005 MDX Touring, 36K miles that just sold on ebay for $23,299. An '06 CPO w/37K that just sold for $23K. You might want to expand your search to include newer ones; & of course a warranty never matters, "until it does"......
A VW of that age would either have the 2.slow engine or the 1.8T which required that you carry around spare ignition coils (if the dealer wasn't out of them).
rumble strips on the side of the road at about 40mph when the torque converter kicks in and slips.
2004 Chevy Silverado LS
4dr Crew Cab
5.3L engine
RWD
70,000 miles
Options
HD Trailering Equipment, XM Satellite Radio, Locking Rear Differential, Front Fog Lamps, Rear Axle w/3.73 Ratio, Spare Tire Lock, Plastic Bed Liner, Hard Top Bed Cover, and a Car Alarm (factory installed & dealer activated)
Condition
The truck belongs to my parents, so I don't really know how to rate the condition other than to say that the interior and exterior would probably qualify as "clean", but not "excellent". The condition is likely better than most 5 year old trucks. Regularly scheduled maintenance was followed. Not sure about the condition of the tires or brakes.
Other
The truck was rear ended a couple of years ago. $2-3k worth of body damage. Insurance claim was filed and repairs were made. No problems since then.
NADA - $12,950 for a clean trade-in
Edmunds - $10,935 for a clean trade-in
KBB - $11,150 for a good trade-in
Getting a Carmax appraisal tomorrow
Thanks in advance for your help!
Again, this is a car my son is interested that was owned prior by a family friend coincidentally and is now for sale at the local Honda dealer.
I myself have owned two new MDX's and am very familiar with the quirks and trouble spots (TC, Trans, engine mounts, etc). So far so good!
This says to me the resale on these models still aren't too bad basing numbers off the average transactional prices from 2005 and 2006.
I think hubby's right about them not taking the true book value of it. I'm thinking about staying with my trusty 1999 Ford Taurus even though it has 121,000 on it.
In comparision, earlier this year my husband bought a 2008 Town & Country for 15,995. That has more seating, the 2nd and 3rd fold down. Also, a DVD player, a better radio, a back up camera, a warranty, and flex fuel. I'm sure worse gas mileage though.
Please take a look at this car and tell me what I should pay for it. This is a Mazda Protege 2003, 5 speed manual and 5 door hatchback.
123,000 miles, two owners. Seems to be in good condition.
Nice thing is that Its a Mazda; not many people want to buy a Mazda. AND , its located at a dealership which mainly keeps European cars.
KBB private party: 5500 $ for good condition. he asked 6900$, but will accept 5500 as he told me on the phone.
Whats the REAL world price of this car and how much should I pay for it???
Thanks a lot.
">link titlelink title
My gut says that seems high even for as funky as used car prices have gotten lately.
Actually going to look that old deal up now and get back to you.
I have been bringing up a few cars for you to tell me about and advise me about before I buy.
Thank you all so much, especially volvomax, axeteira , british rover, Ex grad student, and a host of other people, whos names are being missed but their contributions not forgotten.
I had posted a message, and in the replies, again, were reiterated the advice to buy something other than a Japanese econobox, with lower miles at the same price. Today, thankfully, I was able to do just that. After I posted on Cartalk, Docknick strongly advised me to go for a low miles small brand car rather than a high mile [non-permissible content removed]. As I had been doing for the past month, I put “Chevrolet Cobalt Manual” into craigslist and got a few hits. There was one which sounded pretty good. This was exactly as a poster on Cartalk had described; a senior lady, selling her rarely used car. I immediately called her and asked her about it. She said its for sale still. I asked her the VIN; she gave it to me shakily belying an inexperienced seller. I then ran an Autocheck report, score was higher than the range for similar vehicles of that year. She said its still available, and quoted me a cash price which was pretty low. I asked her what the deal was, and she said that she got divorced last year, and did not need a stick shift.
Immediately I called my friend up. There was no time to lose, especially at this price. “In two years of me knowing you, I have never mentioned an emergency, if ever there is one, its now.” He said, fine, “I'll take you to her house,immediately”. I got on the bus, got off without paying the fare, and went to the nearest Chase bank. Got the cash out. Eyeballed 3 different immigrant types whom I thought were going to take my cash away. My friend was waiting from me in the car lot. I kept trying to call the lady to ensure that she allows me to see the car first. The repeated calling worked, and I arrived in a rough part of town at 630 pm. I was scared of keeping so much cash with me, especially since we had driven to a rough neighborhood.
A short diminutive lady came out of the house, barking dogs kept up a din. Hi, I'm from Rice University, I spoke to you over the phone etc etc. She said, yes here is the car. She got the keys from inside the house, and then she gave them to me. I said we are leaving our car here; and we took it for a test drive. The interior was in poor shape, it had been abused by her grandson. Cigarette ashes in a ash tray etc. I was a little disappointed. There was a ding in the side of the car, which seemed like it had come in recently. A piece of plastic from the side panel had broken and was hanging loose. I was disappointed. But, the months of looking up good deals on craigslist, and discussing them with a lot of people, that Samurai training kicked in and I thought: if this little guy is mechanically sound, I think I have a good deal for the money. I asked her if I could take the car for 15 minutes for a longer drive. She hesitated. Said “ my neighbors offered me the same price that you did, and there is one more person who is offering 500$ more; but you called me first. Now if you don't like the car, it might not be the car for you, no problems” . I allowed for the fact that she was pretty senior, and a little eccentric. “Ok ma'am, its a small request. 15 minutes of a drive” I and my friend took it to one place for a mechanic, didnt find it, another place; sorry Sir we're closed. It was 615pm . A third Autozone mechanic was just coming out of his car. “Can you please take a look?” “Sorry Sir we're closed. I need to do this immediately
because the deal is going go away”. “Monday Sir”. “Okay, why dont you just see the engine a little bit and see if everything looks alright”. “What year?” ; “2007”; “what model?”; “Chevy Cobalt.” “Is the check engine light on?”. “No, not at all”. “Okay then”. The mechanic peered over the open engine bay. “Its a new car, it doesn't have any leaks, you wont have any problems. Chevys last till around 75000 miles without any trouble.”
“Brilliant” I thought to myself. Thank you so much, we had to get going to the old lady's house.
Drove back. I saw the lady speaking on the phone with someone, telling them the vehicle number of my friends car. She was talking to the police since we had taken so long!
Well. We're here ma'am. You shouldn't have called the police etc...you had my number, you should have called me first. I lost it in my answering machine, she said. I was still befuddled by her sensibilities.
“Okay ma'am, I think I'll buy the car”. “Okay then” . She signed the title over, the registration was out, she gave me her registration mailer. A piece of paper served as the receipt. I paid her the cash, and she counted it out. I still have to go get her signature on form I 130 U and get the spare tyre, set of keys, and remaining receipts of maintenance.
I and my friend drove back along US 59 to Rice U. The sun was just setting. Orange hues pierced my eyes in congratulation. My first car was with me, and all was well with the world.
Gentlemen, I would not have been able to do this without your extensive, excellent, exhaustive support, and fantastic advice. I bow, say Namaste (I'm Indian) to you all. Thank you so much, for your help.
I bought the 2007 Chevy Cobalt with 23,000 miles on it, no accidents, one owner, a price well below kbb.
Cheers,
Houstonrice.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
2006 Miata Sport - AT
54K miles (factory warrenty ended at 50K)
good condition - no accidents
needs tires
I am looking at the described car at a franchised dealer (not Mazda) and am trying to determine what to offer. It has been on the lot about 2 months. Also what is the approx wholsale or auction value of this car. Thanks!
2003 Nissan Murano SL AWD
115,000 miles
Fair Condition - No accidents - paint chips and some small scratches
Pumpkin Orange color
Tires - new
All maintenance up to date with receipts to prove.
Looking to trade in above described vehicle for a new Nissan Murano (2010); hopefully in the next 2 - 3 months!!
I'd have emailed you about this, but your address is 'private.'
Remarks like the above aren't really helpful to the general discussion; we're almost all of us immigrant types in America. Some just are more recent than others.
This is not to suggest to let political correctness get in the way of self-preservation; but as a public discussion, it's a sensitive subject.
Cheers,
-Mathias
My conclusion is that dealers really don't want to take in a trade that's equal to (or almost equal to) the value of the car they are selling. The car they have on their lot is a headache to sell and they don't want to simply replace one headache with another (especially since my car may not be the same brand as the dealership sells, causing them to send it off for auction). They would much prefer to get an all-cash buyer or one who will finance or lease through their organization.
Is the answer that simple, or am I missing something? Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Most of the inquiries I've made have been casual and I'm not at the stage where I've found a car so compelling to buy that I need to press the issue by visiting the dealer in person. Plus, I'm not keen on giving any business to a dealer that has declined to send me a response by e-mail, even if that response is a firm "no."
If you just want an actual cash value to your vehicle,go to Carmax. they give you a written cash offer good for 7 days.
Hope this helps. :shades:
Not all dealers, just some.
I can't see why they will care about your situation. They take trade ins all the time. As long as you don't mind paying retail for their car, and taking sholesale for yours, it doesn't matter how much they are worth. Sometimes, they might even have to cut you a check.
anyway, you aren't trading car for car in that sense. you are selling them one and buying a different one, even if they prices are exactly the same, and no money will change hands.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And well, I'm absolutely fresh off the boat; but you do understand the situation being made; I was just being honest about what happened.
Cheers,
Carmax offered $9,000.
I ended up getting $11,200 from the dealer.
In fact I just did a deal a couple of months ago where the car traded in was worth nearly double the value of the car they bought.
After a job change the customer had to downsize and just couldn't justify a nearly 900 dollar payment anymore. He traded in for a CPO Volvo and got his payment down into the mid 300 range.
I shopped a lot for these last summer, fall, winter, and spring, and saw prices drop in winter and then go down and then back up about $3000 for the same car.
That 06, last year mind you, would have been a $17k car in the summer 2008, but by mid-winter was a $15k car at best, maybe even $13.5k when incentives on new ones peaked in March/April ($5000 rebate on left over 2008s).
When the 08s were gone the prices went back up again, though, and then even higher when the weather got nice. I stopped looking because I decided to buy a new one.
I'll guess that car is priced at around $15k or so given the high-ish miles.
If you wait until the dead of winter, though, maybe January-February, I bet you find a clean one for $14k or less.
Please don't say because Edmunds says so.
What is probably happening is that dealers know your car isn't worth what you think it is and don't want to deal with that issue.
100% not true. We aren't talking about wholesaling cars here. Dealer is going to make money selling their car.
The issue is whether or not the trade is really worth what the OP thinks it is.
2008 Honda Civic LX
4 Door
Automatic
Gray
17,000 miles
Excellent Condition (no dings, scratches, tires have most tread)
All dealer maintenance performed
We're trying to get the other driver's insurance to give us a diminished value claim.
Is it true, a wrecked car with that much damage can never be a "certified pre-owned vehicle" on the lot of a reputable dealer? Is it true CarMax won't have a repainted car on the lot or at least not one with as extensive damage as our car suffered?
We hired a Diminished Value service to estimate our loss, and it was $3,884; but the most the insurance company has offered us is offered us is $1500.
2003 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L Nav
Private Owner - 2nd owner
Black/black leather
106000 miles (needs timing belt service, $600 @ dealer)
good condition - new tires, all maintenance records. Rear bumper replaced last year - the current owner backed into their other vehicle.
2002 Acura 3.2 TL VIN 19UUA56662A048754
Dealer owned (Mercedes dealer)
1 owner, red/tan interior. Good (not new) tires.
85k miles.
Great condition - ne dents, tears, stains. I was able to verify the service history with Acura dealer.
Both are located in TN, the Honda near Nashville, the Acura in the Eastern part of the state.
Wondering what a good offer would be for both of these cars.
I don't know why the salesman is not responding to the OP.
Hang on a second. I never offer up a dollar figure on my trades when I send these e-mails. I simply give a thorough description of the car and tell them I'd like to discuss a trade. The closest I came to hinting at a value recently was to suggest I might like to do a cashless exchange between my trade and a car the dealer was advertising. A smart salesperson would have gotten back to me to see if I would be willing to pay a couple thousand along with the trade (I probably would have) or would do a cashless deal on a lower-priced car. A dumb salesperson would give no response and lose a potential customer, which is what happened.
I think the real answer is that dealers are simply lazy and still arrogant. Either that, or they're suffering from depression after the "Cash for Clunkers" euphoria. They'd prefer to have a sucker walk through the door and pay their ridiculous retail used car prices with all cash or their overblown financing. They barely want to lift a finger to send your car off to an auction.
To give you an example of the attitude, last summer, one of my dealers staged a special "clinic" with some half-price maintenance services. One could assume the dealership did this to get some live prospects in the door because there were refreshments, a free gift, etc. As I waited for my car for close to an hour, I spent a lot of time examining the stock on the showroom floor. Not one salesperson came up to me to see if I was interested in doing a deal. Instead, they all sat at their desks drinking coffee and eating the customers' Danish. (BTW, after my visit, I e-mailed the dealer about one of the cars on the floor and said I was interested in trading two of my cars against it. No trade-in values or a cashless exchange were mentioned. I also got no answer back on this one. Someone probably decided that the coffee would get cold if they had to take the time to process two trades at once.)
There are too many dealers and too many cars out there for customers to have to beg for a salesperson's attention in these tough times. As far as I'm concerned, the non-respondents can go commission-less as their cars rot on the lot through the winter.
I think the dealer might think that your cars are not worth that much and you are more likely to reject the offer. Sometimes, when I go to purchase a new car, the dealer want to negotiate the used car first b/c he says that many time people want too much money for their used. However, if I resist just to discuss the diff, they usually don't mine as well.
On a new car, I usually ask the salesperson to send his/her best price on a specific in-stock car in a return e-mail. If I don't get a price back or if I get no response or the usual gobbledygook, that dealership comes off the list. On a trade, I simply have the dealership look at the car and give me a price. After their prices are offered to me, I then negotiate to narrow the spread between the trade and the new car.
I hear what you're saying, but It doesn't make any sense for a dealer to try and read my mind without contacting me. After all, negotiations are about talking. If a dealer doesn't want to talk, that kind of attitude assures a sale won't happen.
I just think that, these days, any salesperson not responding to a legitimate inquiry is simply a dunce and deserves the low pay.
However, let's look at some of the issues:
Starting with doc fees, I've read elsewhere (not here) that these can be pure profit for the dealer. A lot of dealers will negotiate a price without telling you that the doc fee (and, sometimes, other bogus fees) will be added on later. I've been told that it's pre-printed on the form and can't be removed, essentially a message to me that I should stop negotiating further. (Of course, it can be left on the form but removed from the negotiated price of the car.) One dealer also told me that if they refunded the doc fee, they would be hit with "thousands of lawsuits" from past customers who had to pay it. After a while, you get tired of hearing this stuff. Now, I think the dealer should be paid for things like acquiring the tags, including the cost of sending someone to the motor vehicle bureau. But, from what I've seen, dealers put on those charges in addition to the doc fee.
Re the non-responsiveness, any company that doesn't respond to a legitimate inquiry from a potential customer doesn't deserve to get any business from that customer. Not only will I not beg for business from a non-responsive dealer (especially in these tough times); I'll also send referrals elsewhere.
On the best price, I can't recall a time when I've ever bought a car based on the dealer's first offered price. If it's truly a negotiation, you never offer your bottom price at the beginning. This is Negotiation 101. If you are, indeed, a dealer and you offer your best price up front, a lot of customers are going to think you're stubborn when you say you can't take off a few more dollars. Any shrewd customer would walk if they have alternative dealers and cars in their area.
On retail prices of used cars at dealerships, they are simply inflated. There's always room to go lower.
I also think it's important to understand the BS that dealers still shovel in customer's faces and why some customers go into a dealership with an adversarial attitude. Recently, in negotiating for my niece's car, I was told that, "We're not making a profit on this car. We're giving you this price to build a relationship." Later, in the business manager's office as we were signing the papers, he told us that, "I always insist that my relatives and friends take the extended warranty. I want to be sure that they're protected." These kinds of remarks insult my intelligence, but I'm so anti-dealer that I smiled and shook hands with everyone and left them with a pretty nice profit at the end of the day.
Finally, if you are a dealer, I'm sure you are only too happy to sell someone a car at MSRP or provide them with inflated financing if you find they haven't done their homework or can be taken for a ride. After all, you're there to get the highest price from the customer. I'm there to get the lowest price. So if you think my remarks are anti-dealer, well, you just don't get it. You won't find me in your showroom.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Your attitude in your posting is offensive to those who are professionals and in the business for many years. I guess it is the generalization that all dealers and their products are bogus is offensive. Of course it is my job (just as it may be in your business) to maximize profits - but because of the relationships built over the years much of my business (and that of most professionals) is repeat and referral. When done right the car business is like any business.
Why don't you give us that information and we can see if you are correct on your numbers?
Contrary to your low opinion, salespeople don't get paid if they don't sell a car. If there is a way to make a sale, they will find it.
Maybe you are way off on your estimation,maybe the tone of your email was wrong, maybe you really did run into a really lazy salesperson.