Real-World Trade-In Values

Kirstie_H · February 2011

$7995 for the Escape.
$9900 for the BMW.

It's a tough call. I like them both. I can tow more easily with the Escape (waverunner), and parts/service in my rural area are more likely to be readily available, and of course, cheaper.

If anything goes amiss with the BMW, my guess is it'll be more difficult and definitely more expensive. Nearest BMW dealer to me is 25 miles away.
I hate making decisions like this. It really locks me up!

The only good thing is that once I've purchased, it is DONE in my head and I know I'll be happy. I don't second guess or keep looking.

qbrozen · February 2011

real world difference isn't QUITE that much. Escape is worth about $5k trade and the bimmer is a bit under $6500.

qbrozen · February 2011

My only point was that Audis seem to depreciate steeply for at least 5 years. Most people looking to save a good buck by buying used are usually looking at 3-year-old off-lease vehicles. On some cars (Audi being one), you still suffer at the hands of depreciation after that.

Of course, reliability and repairs are a part of that ... a big part of that. It is why Toyota and Honda have such great resale.

Kirstie_H · February 2011

I've almost decided to quit worrying about it - going to look at a couple other vehicles in a bit. I'm pretty convinced that if I stay with a mainstream SUV under $10K, under 10 yrs old, that is priced well relative to competition, I can deal with it.

I'm not looking to buy my ideal car - I'm looking to stay well under my budget to have repair $ available, no car payment, giving me the ability to get pretty much whatever I want in a couple of years. And, I don't expect perfection in a used vehicle.

I just keep repeating, "it'll all be OK, it'll all be OK."

crkyolfrt · February 2011

Parts and service..there is a fair amount of Mazda content in that Escape. (in case a Mazda dealer is close by) but most identical parts cost way more under the Mazda name, so having the Escape would be my choice also, over the Tribute.

- thinking outloud here...there is a possibility I am confusing the content with the Escape and Tribute. My memory is failing, but I was assuming it had a Mazda built 3 litre and 4 sp auto. Or is it the other way around, in that that powertrain is all Ford, and came out of a Taurus? It was later in my post when I was trying to recall if the autos were sturdy that I questioned this.

One detail I remember from that year of car, they had a very small gas tank. I think it was 45 litres. (11.9 of your gallons). Range with the V6 was even shorter than the 4 cyl of course. So it depends how convenient you are to a gas stn. Personally, I keep gas on hand at home in jerry cans, so that I don't have to be caught out having to drive out of my way just to get gas. That also allows me to by some bulk fuel during a price lull. Remember the famous blackout of Aug/05? Sure was glad i had some gas at home that time. Although i was down to about only 3 gallons. Usually I try to keep 15 or 20 gallons on hand. But those 3 gallons, plus what was already in my generator kept my freezer meat frozen. Just tho..

FWIW, my initial reaction when I saw the price of that Escape, was shock. But I like how clean it is inside, that is a real bonus..what was book value? That 4 speed auto's best years are behind it now. Also, if the Escape already has a hitch, use that to get price lower still unless it can be proven what it towed. I put a hitch on my car for 700 lb loads towing my bike or ATV or a few 2x4's. But the Escape could also have been hooked to a 3000 lb travel trailer, which will have been hard on both tranny and engine. A brake controller under the dash (or holes where it had been mounted, are tell-tale signs) even though it is unlikely.
Make sure you see that all tires are like make and sized, and confirm PSI is the same in each, then try it in 4 WD at 70 to 75 on the highway so you can listen for excessive driveline noise. Don't make any sharp turns though if the roads are dry. Best way to do this is once clearing an on-ramp, pull over on the shoulder to engage 4x4, and when your test is finished, pull over on shoulder again prior to an off-ramp to disengage. I forget it it is engage/dis on the fly, but Fords are notorious for not disengaging when they are supposed to, which, of course, puts a lot of strain on the rest of the drivetrain until it is discovered. This is why i suggest the fast highway test.

rayainsw · February 2011

'If anything goes amiss with the BMW, my guess is it'll be more difficult and definitely more expensive. Nearest BMW dealer to me is 25 miles away. '
Any chance there is an indy BMW shop nearby?
With a great 'word-of-mouth' reputation?
- Ray
Good luck, in any case...

ateixeira · February 2011

I think Ford let Mazda design the smaller 4-bangers, but the V6 was theirs.

They shared so much for a while there, it was hard to tell.

I had a 1991 Ford Escort GT that had the Mazda engine from the Protoge ES. The Tracer LTS also got it, and later the 94+ NA Miata got it.

28firefighter · February 2011

Kirstie,

I'll just add my two cents that I have a 2004 330XI and while I love the thing, it is definitely hitting its wall of issues, and has left me stranded once (expansion tank blew and had to pull over to prevent overheating). So far in the first year of ownership I have put about $2k into it. Apparently it was not as well maintained as my mechanic back home initially thought.

Just be prepared if you get it.

kyfdx · February 2011

If your only choice is to take the BMW to a new car dealer for repairs, don't do it... it can kill you...

If you have a good BMW independent around (and, I bet you do), you can do okay with it.. EDIT: There is an independent in Merriam.. no idea if that is close to you, or not...

That said, I don't love the AWD E46 model... You can really feel the difference between it and the RWD model.... not like the newer ones..

Personally, I love my E46...

explorerx4 · February 2011

The '02 escape has a part time 4Wd system that is not supposed to be locked on dry pavement.
Our '04 has the same system. It has never been in locked 4WD mode.
It also has auto mode.
Auto 4WD was always enough to get started or keep going.
The transmission is the biggest unknown.
I have never liked how ours shifted, but after 85k it is still shifting.
Probably about 3500 to replace. Pretty much the same as an minor service for the Bimmer. j/k.
If you drive short distances it can be thirsty.
I could also be know as escapex2.

Btw, I think that color is called Chrome Yellow.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

Re locking on dry pavement..

I had hoped that my quote here:
"Make sure you see that all tires are like make and sized, and confirm PSI is the same in each, then try it in 4 WD at 70 to 75 on the highway so you can listen for excessive driveline noise. Don't make any sharp turns though if the roads are dry. Best way to do this is once clearing an on-ramp, pull over on the shoulder to engage 4x4, and when your test is finished, pull over on shoulder again prior to an off-ramp to disengage."

was explicit enough in every detail (besides going into the reasons why cuz i was trying to avoid the eyes possibly glazing over) that covered bases and the reasons why such a test could be done without harm if my instructions were followed.

Things that would hurt the drivetrain would be:
- turns ( I even suggested doing this once ON the freeway, not even doing an onramp turn) I also pointed out to disengage prior to an off ramp turn.
- I said to confirm tire pressures AND check for like make and sized rubber. I covered all the bases. The manual is written to protect those who don't know why it says what it says. They couldn't begin to into the 'why' although I wish they would.

That test, done as I described and in the order I described it, would tell a shopper a thing or two about the driveline. And would not have hurt it in any way unless my suggestions were not followed.

There are times I wish I wouldn't bother trying to help. It gets too technical with the whys and why nots..people on the internet first assume that no matter what they are reading, must be wrong cuz the guy is just on the internet. Sometimes though what you read on the net hits nails on heads and can be super helpful.

jimbres · February 2011

That said, I don't love the AWD E46 model... You can really feel the difference between it and the RWD model.... not like the newer ones..

STRONGLY agree. When I bought my 330i - almost 10 years ago - I briefly considered buying the AWD version, which was new that year, but decided that I wanted the pure BMW experience. So I went for the RWD version & have never regretted it.

I've driven AWD E46s on a few occasions over the years. They feel like athletes who stopped training a few months ago & are starting to get flabby.

explorerx4 · February 2011

I am sure we are both trying to be helpful.
All I was doing was providing information from the owner's manual which says never drive in locked 4WD mode on dry or wet pavement.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

I understand that, but they say that because they expect drivers would be making turns. The sharper the worse it is on loading the transfer case because when you make a turn, the inside wheel turns slower than the outside wheel. This only works when you have only one drive axle. As soon as you introduce two drive axles all the rules change, and the transfer case that connects each axle becomes stress loaded. In a straight line there is no loading because all four wheels having the same psi, size, brand, model, all have the same outside circumference.

So a mfgr just finds it a whole lot simpler to say, Do this, Don't do that.

Of course there are many more sophisticated AWD systems out there that handle the potential for drivetrain loading through various measures using electronics and clutches, viscous couples etc etc (viscous couples are my personal favourite because they are cheap, they rarely fail, are fuel mileage friendly, light and not complex)

Anyway, it appears to all be moot, cuz I don't think she has read our posts.
Peace.

Kirstie_H · February 2011

I hadn't read them, until now, because as I mentioned, I was out yesterday afternoon/evening shopping for cars.

No big deal to me re: the 4x4, because the auto will be perfectly sufficient for my needs 99% of the time.

I got the Escape... sales story will come on Monday, because I've got a pretty busy weekend. I totally appreciate all of the advice and comments, as they helped affirm my decision that (based on the vehicles available for sale at this time in my area) I picked the right vehicle for me.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

Hey, cool! I think you made a good choice over the BMW.

explorerx4 · February 2011

Congrats on the 'Tweety Bird'.
A great place Escape info is 'escape-central' dot com.

isellhondas · February 2011

I think yellow is a cool color on those.

crkyolfrt · February 2011

I think so too. If a car can wear yellow, it is usually never on the fence. It either looks fantastic or it doesn't look good at all. No middle road. Weak yellows like VW's New Beetle never cut the mustard though no matter what shape it's splashed on.

K's new ride does look great.

Kirstie_H · February 2011

Thanks, guys! I'm happy so far. Been out this afternoon getting new audio stuff. The stock radio/CD player was kind of outdated (all black plastic everywhere with white, somewhat rubbed off lettering) and so-so sound quality, so I treated myself to a spiffy more digital update - worth it for $230 ( negotiated $30 off, you'll be happy to know). My S.O. is installing it now.

The tires are also so-so. I mean, they've probably still got a good 50% life left in them, but they weren't great tires brand new and perhaps haven't been rotated regularly. They'd probably be fine, but I can hear the road noise caused by the tires, so those will probably be upgraded soon too.

It's gloomy today, but I'll take my own photos next time it's sunny. I will say that for a nearly 10 yr old vehicle, it looks brand new outside, leather seats are in fabulous shape, and while the carpet looks like it's been used, it sure hasn't taken the beating that most 10 yr old vehicles' carpet has. I suspect they rarely, if ever, used the back seats and same with the cargo area.

explorerx4 · February 2011

Escapes up until '08 are kind of noisy.
The OEM Continentals have been universally panned due to noise.
I replaced them early with some Goodyear Fortera Tripletreads.
They are a bit quieter, track great, and should last all of their 65k mileage rating. Ride is a bit stiffer and they are not cheap.
They will need replacing fairly soon, though.
On my Explorer, I replaced the Michelin tires which I loved but were too expensive, with some General Grabber HTS.
Low rolling resistance and silent running. Ride is a bit firmer than the Michelin's and they give up some turning traction in snow.
Whatever tire you get, whenever it is, make sure you let us know.

cadillacmike · February 2011

Location: Tampa FL
Year/Make/Model: 2005 Cadillac CTS
Body Style: 4 dr
Engine: 3.6 liter v6, 5spd auto trans
Driveline: RWD
Mileage: 119,050
Color: ext: Black, int: Tan
Major Options: every factory option except pearl paint; sunroof, navigation with Bose & XM, leather seats, 17" polished wheels with sport & luxury package, auto levelling suspension, xenon headlights, split folding rear seat, wood trim, OnStar, dual power seats w memory, stability & traction control, etc...
Condition:
Exterior: couple of highway flying stone dings on hood, 1 or 2 small door dings luggage scuff on rear bumper
Interior: front seats light wear, no tears or scratches, back seat almost never used.
Tires - front 90%+ rear 50%+
Brakes 90%+
Maintenance all scheduled maintenance complete, mostly dealer maintained
Other: no prior damage or claims, no glass damage, glass was professionally tinted with titanium based film when new.

qbrozen · February 2011

miles are a killer.

You could expect $6500-$7k.

cadillacmike · February 2011

Is Edmunds' TMV really that far off? it shows approx 10,000 trade-in with correspondingly higher pvt party & dealer retail figures.

I know TMV isn't writing the check. Just wondering if its really thar far off - if so, I'll be using that same info when calculating the replacement vehicle's value - which will likely be a 2008, 09, or 10 CTS probably with higher than average miles as well (but not 119K!!)

afuturestrader · February 2011

Location: New Haven, CT
Year/Make/Model: 2003, Honda Accord LX
Body Style: 4 dr
Engine: 2.4 liter, 4 cylinder, manual
Driveline: FWD
Mileage: 49,600
Color: exterior = Silver , interior = black cloth
Major Options: none, it is a stock LX manual shift
Condition:
interior - good shape, no tears or scratches in cloth
exterior - few paint blemishes on trunk. driver side rear bumper has a small 3 inch crack from underside of car up. otherwise in nice shape.
Tires - original tires. 4/32 to 6/32 tread depth per Honda dealer inspection
Brakes - original brakes. Per Honda dealer inspection front brakes are 3 to 5 mm (Disc) or 1.01 to 2 mm (Drum), rear brakes are over 5mm (Disc) or Over 2 mm (Drum)
Maintenance - mostly dealer maintained but not in strict accordance with scheduled maintenance.
Other: Only work on car has been regular maintenance and the cat. converter was replaced November 2009 by dealer.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

ateixeira · February 2011

A low mile Accord manual, has there ever been a better candidate for Craigslist treatment?

Kirstie_H · February 2011

in a college town?
Craigslist or a note on a few college bulletin boards and it'll be gone in hours.
(I'll let someone with more expertise handle the pricing on this one.)

Kirstie_H · February 2011

Mike, I've found that TMV doesn't do as well with cars over 100K miles, regardless of make/model. It wasn't close on the offers I got for mine either.

Since TMV isn't human, it probably doesn't take into account the fact that most dealers will send the vehicle straight to auction or it'll end up on a local BHPH lot. (One of the BHPH dealerships that I visited said they get all of their vehicles from 2 different dealerships in town.) I don't have any inside knowledge on the back-end of the TMV system, but my experience is that it kind of "freaks out" and gives you a high number on high mileage vehicles - it's like it's debiting the value at a certain cents-per-mile rate, but doesn't understand that those vehicles just aren't likely to be regular ol' retail candidates.

stickguy · February 2011

saw this one over at SS. What do you think is fair private party, assuming no hits, runs, errors?

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?152754-2006-V70-2.5T-Barents-Blue-87- k-CPO-Maryland

roadburner · February 2011

Sell it yourself. Back in 2005 Carmax offered me $5000 for my 130,000 mile 1997 528i. I sold it to a fellow customer of my indie BMW shop for $10000.

qbrozen · February 2011

Probably right around $6500 from a dealer.

Personally, I'd throw on new cheapo tires, new brakes, and list that for $9995 on CL and ebay classifieds.

qbrozen · February 2011

trade value is right around $9k.

ya know, torchlight has a nice red one, an '04 with only 75k, for under $9k.

stickguy · February 2011

I saw that red one. I actually like that color too. Almost as much as the blue, which I think is the best. Not that I would pay that much, especially if it needs tires (extra wheels not that big a deal, since I don't normally get snows).

with those miles, I was thinking more like 10K, maybe 11. In the 10s, if it is clean as a whistle (and it does have CPO for over a year), even needing tires it would be a no brainer.

Not being picky, but i prefer newer if possible. I forget where, but somewhere in that period they did some updates.

the blue one also has heated seats (red is missing the climate package).

and I know this is petty, but if I get an AT, it has to be a geartronic. Partly because I want the functionality available, but just as much because the non-GT shifter looks real cheesy!

cfg1 · February 2011

Location: Colorado Springs
Year/Make/Model: 2007 Infiniti G35X
Body Style: 4 dr
Engine: 3.5 liter, 6 cylinder, auto
Driveline: AWD
Mileage: 50,000
Color: Red with wheat interior
Major Options: premium package, wood trim
Condition:
3 door dings, otherwise good
Tires - replaced at 35,000 miles

lrguy44 · February 2011

Auction reports say $18-$20k trade value

sebring95 · February 2011

So we've been looking at these new and came across a used one for what seems like a killer price. Dealer is about an hour away and currently I can't get over to look at it. Salesman claims they've been taking calls from all over on this thing and he doubts it will still be there Monday. Anyway here it is:

2011 Sienna Ltd AWD Nav & DVD
13,000 miles
Looks good, clean carfax. Traded in on a Lexus.

Price is "firm" according to salesman at $35k. This thing stickers new at $45k and I can buy one for $41.5k. So it's about $6,500 off a new one which seems great but it's very close to a year old (built 03/10). There are pretty much none of these out there to compare to with this level of equipment and just happens to be exactly what we were going to buy new (although I would take one without the DVD if one existed...). Just wondering what you all think. I'm thinking this is a steal but my opinion may be jaded by the cost of a new one. I figure Toyota will start offering incentives before long on '11 models as the '12 should be hitting.

tifighter · February 2011

Sounds pretty good. If they are selling it for $35k, then just imagine badly the original owner got stung on trade-in. Ouch.

explorerx4 · February 2011

Probably a good idea to get some kind of history report.
Just guessing a Repo?

gooddeal2 · February 2011

Fitzmall has it for 40.5K so, you save about 5.5k. At 13k miles = about 30% of breaks and tires + 1 year of warranty are gone.

sebring95 · February 2011

Clean carfax, two services. Haven't pulled an autocheck yet...will wait and see if it's still available when I can get over there. I'll be able find any damage history myself at that point. As mentioned in OP, it was traded on a Lexus and is for sale on their Toyota lot. My guess is someone wanted the Lexus of minivans... :P then realized it still wasn't a Lexus.

qbrozen · February 2011

too new, so I have no trade data on it.

ateixeira · February 2011

I wouldn't necessarily believe the salesman...

A lot of Siennas are used by Toyota dealers as their shuttle for service customers.

$5500 is a steep discount though.

Only one red flag - those have the run-flats, which are pricey, don't last long, and get a lot of complaints. There's not even room for a spare to swap over since the rear driveshaft takes up that space. Just be aware of that.

sebring95 · February 2011

Carfax seems to make his case. It was bought in one city, serviced in another, and traded at this chain's Lexus dealer.

I'm aware of the runflats. I agree it's not ideal...but it's less of a compromise at this point.

ateixeira · February 2011

In that case, go for it!

I do tend to prefer some things about the 2010 models, though. Toyota cut a few costs, you'll see what I mean if you compare them back to back.

Check out CPO 2010s if that deal falls through.

sebring95 · February 2011

Agree on some of the cutbacks...but wife hates the looks of the prev gen. Only reason we're not (at this point) going with an '11 Ody is the exterior looks and color choices

The '11 Ody is far superior inside but everyone has to be happy.

ateixeira · February 2011

And Honda also reserved the 6 speed for the $40k plus models only.

I can squint, but I hate it when you spent what seems like a lot for an EX-L and still get the cheaper transmission.

sebring95 · February 2011

Well it appears the Sienna sold Saturday although I've been back and forth with several sales folks as to the true status. Latest version is it's sold. Oh well. Honestly I think the Odyssey is the better vehicle...looks aside. If they had a decent color scheme I think I could get the wife on board...and frankly the Ody Touring has everything we want and is far cheaper than the Sienna Ltd. Time will tell.

jayrider · February 2011

Not touting cause i'm not in the market but have you checked out the new chrysler/dodge minivans? Nissan has a new Quest. No nothing except they exist.

cadillacmike · March 2011

I find myself agreeing with you. I really noticed something wrong when i tried getting a TMV for a 1996 fleetwood with 70,000 miles. I appears that the TMV program is not very well up to speed with that model either.

ronsteve · March 2011

I'm seeing dealers asking silly money on '08-09 Outbacks, and I'm wondering if they're actually getting it!

The interesting vehicle is a certified '09 XT manual with 11k miles going for $26938 in Charleston, SC. Some folks over in CCBA said that's a bit high... certified TMV is in the low 26's, KBB retail is 28,9! This thing only listed for $32k.

A broader search of Outbacks in the Southeast shows asking prices in the $23s on '09 2.5i SE's, which is right around what the new invoice was!

Anyone in the know about Subarus, what's keeping these prices so high?! I've heard of good resale, but is there some secret room to bargain?

Trade bait would be a '06 Volvo V70 2.5T, leather/moonroof/climate pkg, 74k miles, worn tires and original brakes.

Real-World Trade-In Values

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