Real-World Trade-In Values

corvette · May 2013

"Why would any consumer with half a brain pay that much for a 2011, when the very same dealer has a brand new truck with the same options, even the same color, for $26,388?"

As I understand it, the consumer may not qualify for financing on a new vehicle, but will qualify for financing on a used one (at a much higher interest rate).

"If theyre selling that high at auction, then I should be able to get the same (or close) from a Nissan (or other non-Chevy) dealer?"

Yes.

"Im going to continue looking and thinking. I have an older vehicle which I drive to work (because of the parking garage), and I can keep doing that."

If you want to keep a Silverado as a weekend/recreational vehicle and not drive it to work, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax, and it does sound reasonable to trade it on a new 2013 if it's only going to cost you a couple of thousand dollars.

qbrozen · May 2013

That's one way of looking at it. The other way is that you owe $15k on your current vehicle but would owe something like $19k on the new one after fees, etc, right?

Granted, not bad... but you do have less than 7k miles on your current ride. Would I personally pay $4k for 7k miles difference in identical vehicles? Nope.

ohenryx · May 2013

That's one way of looking at it. The other way is that you owe $15k on your current vehicle but would owe something like $19k on the new one after fees, etc, right?

Granted, not bad... but you do have less than 7k miles on your current ride. Would I personally pay $4k for 7k miles difference in identical vehicles? Nope.

When you put it that way, neither would I. But If I have this figured right, the difference would only run about $2.8k (including TT&L), not $4k. And I would not finance that, just write a check for the difference. And based on that, yes I would do it. That is, if I decide to keep the Silverado / a Silverado.

If it cost absolutely nothing to trade up to the brand new truck, 2 model years newer, then anyone would do so. If it cost $5k out of pocket, most would not. What is the point in between $0 and $5k at which you would jump on it versus let it pass? For me, I think $2.8k falls into the go for it category. Others might feel differently.

All of which becomes immaterial if I decide to go with some smaller vehicle.

isellhondas · May 2013

It probably just needs a fan switch or a resistor. I would fix it.

Also, it it needs a detail....well...detail it yourself or have it done. Looks really make a difference.

They have products that will remove the haze on your headlight lenses too.

qbrozen · May 2013

OH, I missed that $500 rebate/discount. And, depending where you live, fees can be hefty. Usually runs $500-600 here in NJ. Plus the ~$170 tax, and I'd still be looking at over $3k. A bit more reasonable and a much tougher decision at that point, though.

sebring95 · May 2013

Have you thought about a Tahoe? Much easier to park but similar comfort as the Silverado. I always get better mpg in Tahoe/Suburban than in the trucks as well. Plus they go better in 2wd than the trucks in case you ever get into some snow/mud.

nyccarguy · May 2013

Good morning qbrozen. I'm just curious to see what my cars are going across the block for:

2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation
Polished Metal Metallic
Black Leather
5 Speed Automatic
3.5L V6
4WD
Sunroof, Heated Seats, Navigation, Backup Camera
Exterior 7/10
Interior 8/10
New Tires (Michelins)
35,500 miles

I'm thinking $25.5K across the block :confuse:

2011 BMW 328xi Sedan
Titanium Silver
Black Leather
6 Speed Automatic
3.0L Inline 6
AWD
Heated Seats, Heated Steering Wheel, Navigation, Adaptive Xenon Headlights, Sunroof, Premium Pkg
Exterior 9/10
Interior 9/10
23,000 miles

Thanks as always pal!

ohenryx · May 2013

Have you thought about a Tahoe?

Have you looked at the price of a new Tahoe? That is in a completely different league, pricewise.

For anyone who actually might be interested in this continuing saga, updates follow. I found out that I was wrong about the bottom line cost for trading my 2011 for a 2013 (exact same Texas Edition Silverado Crew Cab). The online price for the 2013 already included the $500 that I was thinking would be extra, so my bottom line becomes $3.3k, not $2.8k. Still very cheap for upgrading 2 model years, and adding 19 months back to my factory warranty. But not as tempting to me as it was before.

In the meantime, I dropped by the local Nissan dealer and drove a Murano, a leftover 2012 base model (Murano S). I liked it, and might have actually bought it, except for 2 things. This dealership (can I mention their name here?) is the kind which wants to deal with you on I can get you into this car today for only $477 per month. The salesman absolutely would not tell me the actual allowance for my trade, nor the actual sales price for the vehicle. I got a little POed, told em off, and left.

The next morning I get a phone call from the sales manager. He offers a very nice price on the left over 2012 Murano S, offering to take the truecar.com price of $24,109. I mention that the dealership has it listed as Hail Damage, Hundreds off this unit, and he drops the price to $23,800. (The hail damage was there, but very minor, so acceptable numbers to me.)

So far, so good. He then offers me $21.5 for my trade. I laugh at him, tell him the Chevy dealer down the street has already offered me $23.5. He ups his offer to $22k, and I politely decline. Two hours later, he calls back and ups his offer to $22.5, and I once again politely decline. Two hours later, $23k (My absolute final offer, once in a lifetime, only today, etc, etc). I politely decline, and ask him to quit calling and start using email.

I do like that Murano, but I dont care much for the dealership. And they seem to be the only dealer in town with leftover 2012 Muranos. [sarcasm on] I wonder why that is? [sarcasm off]

qbrozen · May 2013

sounds like a decent deal. Depends on that hail damage, though. Tough to buy a new car that has damage, no matter how minor.

qbrozen · May 2013

close on the Honda. Most in PA are floating around $24,800-25k. I can't tell which have Nav, though.

Around 26 on the bimmer.

nyccarguy · May 2013

It should actually show in the model description. Pilot EX-L (just leather), EX-L w/ NAV (self explanatory), EX-L w/ RES (rear entertainment system, but no NAV). Touring has RES, NAV, turn signals on the mirrors, power rear lift gate (which they made standard across the board for 2012+).

$26K for the BMW? Ha! That's what BMWFS says it'll be worth in another 18 months with 50K on the clock. They guessed wrong;)

qbrozen · May 2013

unfortunately, manheim listings aren't so specific. It just lists EX-L as a choice.

nyccarguy · May 2013

gotcha. thanks anyway

robr2 · May 2013

...and NAV and RES really don't add much IIRC.

ohenryx · May 2013

I signed the paperwork about an hour and a half ago, I now have the 2013 Silverado Crew Cab. The salesman called me this afternoon, offered me the truck for $2,308 difference (plus TT&L). Once I got to the dealership, they waffled on me.

Salesman: One of the rebates / incentives conflicts with another, and it's going to cost you $750 more.

Me: No sale.

Salesman: Okay, we'll eat half of the difference, $375.

Me: No sale.

Salesman: Okay, we'll do the deal as agreed on the phone.

Me: Write it up, I'll sign.

When I got to the finance office, the bottom line was about $270 more than agreed on. Finance guy had to confer with the sales manager, I never budged an inch. .

Their fees were a little on the high side, but not enough to block the deal. I wrote them a check for $2,815, and owe exactly the same as when I drove in with the old truck, only now I have a 2013 instead of a 2011. And, oh yeah, the refinance at the credit union is at 1.99%, the old loan was at 2.49%. That should save me about $3 per month (smile).

And 36 months of warranty left, instead of 17. I had the truck for 19 months, $2,815 divided by 19 is $148 per month. Not too shabby.

jproc · May 2013

Congrats! That is an amazing deal.

qbrozen · May 2013

thanks for the follow-up. congrats.

Sandman6472 · May 2013

Very cool!!!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472 · May 2013

Wife finally came home from my kids place and I read her your answer about the Mazda3. Turns out she plans to fix it as it's starting to get hotter down here. They drove up with the Accent for the weekend as I suggested so as to not do any more damage to her a/c. Since it looks like she'll be spending the weekdays down at my kids place till August, she decided she wants to fix and keep her car and not have to use my daughters everyday. At this point just told her to do what she thinks best so I gotta feeling that we're gonna get this puppy up over the 150k mark! Once she fixes the a/c, will get the detail/headlights done so it'll look like brand new. After playing with the figures, still better to spend maybe another $500 and keep it instead of almost $20k on something new, and if we can get another year or possibly longer out of it, why not. Tires are in great shape as are the brakes...just needs an oil change and a radiator flush.

Looks like we're gonna keep it in the stable until the wheels fall off...or until it strands her. And then I'll get the phone call..."get me into a new vehicle...NOW"!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

hypersionsd · May 2013

115K Miles exterior and interior is beat up pretty bad. It drives and ride nice but radiator started leaking and its $1700 to fix so it's time to get a new car. Will I get anything for a trade-in or do I need to call ecology auto wrecking or list it on CL.

sebring95 · May 2013

Any idea on what the dealer might have in this, Cincinnati, OH:

2011 Altima Coupe, 4cyl, Auto, (Convenience & SL Package) Leather, Sunroof, Bose. 43,000 miles. Local trade at a Lexus dealer. Looks nice, tires good, Carfax shows "very minor" damage to front end from an accident.

jwm40517 · May 2013

How could a leaking radiator possibly cost $1700 to fix?

danbone111 · May 2013

Not saying this is a direct comparison by any means, but just changed a radiator in a V8 BMW, advised to replace all hoses, thermostat, reservoir/expansion tank, water pump, and while working at that location, the A/C compressor. Parts were expensive, labor was time consuming and technical (I've seen improper bleeding in bmw result in overheating and failed head gaskets), and the total was significant. Now, if you ask, one might say it cost me X,xxx to replace the radiator, when in fact it was a more involved. Not sure what the 1700 represents in this case.
Ps. Didn't mean to get carried away in writing a whole story, but I got into it!

steine13 · May 2013

>> [..] call ecology auto wrecking or list it on CL.

Well, so long as you're going to list it on Craigslist, do the thing properly and don't forget to list it as being in "excellent condition."

Seriously, I used to troll the classifieds (*) all the time and musta looked at 100s of cars.

Of all those sleds, I can only remember two or three that were not, according to their owners, in "excellent condition."

And really seriously, once a car reaches that stage, it's time to DIY or sell. Wash it and clean the interior. It's at that point that I usually want to keep mine

Cheers -Mathias

(*) A form of advertising used in the early and middle parts of the 20th century. You called the local newspaper (**) from your home phone (**), see, and discussed the wording at some length...

(**) Have your grandpa explan it.

tjc78 · May 2013

RockAuto lists a radiator for $101. There is no way it costs 1600 in labor to install one. I'm thinking even with new upper/lower hoses and new coolant this can't be more than a $500 job. Some mechanic must have a kid goin to college next year.

At any rate with the coolant leak this is certainly a CL candidate.

qbrozen · May 2013

accident history is always a problem. Let's say they like it even with the history, went overboard to make a deal, and paid $15k for it. They cleaned it up and threw it on the lot. They shouldn't have more than $15,500 in it.

sebring95 · May 2013

Thanks! Daughter decided to skip on it anyway as the coupe was a little too cramped for her. She's waiting to see the repair bill on her IS250....this will be the 3rd major problem in the last six months on this car and she's about ready to toss it. It was a very reliable and nice vehicle through 100k miles but now has been nothing but trouble and repairs are pretty high. I bought it for her....so I guess I'm to blame haha!

qbrozen · May 2013

All your fault! You and your fancy gifts! That'll teach ya.

qbrozen · May 2013

miles are relatively low, but your description doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. Worth about as much as that repair bill, I'm afraid.

I do, however, agree with others that the bill sounds bogus. I'd throw it on craigs with disclosure that it has a coolant leak and ask $1200 for it. Any offer over scrap value takes it home. Just be sure you are very specific that its sold AS IS. I'd even write that on the receipt.

ohenryx · May 2013

Hopefully that Chrysler doesn't have head gasket problems. If I had a nickel for every Cadillac Northstar listed on Craigslist with a "coolant leak", I could retire.

For those who aren't familiar with it, the Cadillac Northstar has a bad habit of eating head gaskets. Average cost of repair at the dealer is about $4,500. There are independent repair shops specializing in this repair, at about $2,500 to $3,000, but the average independent has no idea what is required.

roadburner · May 2013

2009 135i Sport
Louisville area
VIN: WBAUC73569VK80075
39,183 miles
Titanium Silver/Coral Red
6 speed manual
Sport Pkg.
Premium Pkg
Heated seats
As always, Thanks!!!

qbrozen · May 2013

Have you been reading CCBA? You can buy my 135i!! I'll make you a great deal.

Anyway, if you want this '09 instead, the asking price is actually pretty good. Although, those are stock photos, so I can't tell what options it has. Obviously Premium given the leather. Are you sure on those options you list? Sport pack would be very important. In any case, figure $22-23k at auction, depending.

roadburner · May 2013

Thanks, but I just got off the phone with my insider at BMW- the in-service date was 5/5/09 but it has only received one-count 'em-ONE oil change. It should have had 3-4 by now... He advised that I give it a pass... :mad:

ohenryx · May 2013

roadburner in msg 43811:
only received one-count 'em-ONE oil change

Perhaps you meant to say only one oil change at the dealer ?

tjc78 · May 2013

Why would you have the oil changed anywhere else? It's included for the first couple of years on BMWs.

corvette · May 2013

It used to be that the computer only demanded an oil change every two years (on my 2006 model), not sure whether that's changed. BMW would change your oil for free every 12 months, if you asked them to, but the onboard computer implied it wasn't necessary.

Even if you're going by the ~15,000 mile changes the computer suggests on the turbo models, it should've had at least two by now.

qbrozen · May 2013

2008 ... coral leather ... calling your name... :P

ohenryx · May 2013

Okay, I see your point. It is likely the guy only did one oil change. Likely, but not certain. There could be reasons for not using the dealer for oil changes, even if they're included in the purchase. He could have lived a long ways off from the nearest BMW dealer. Or their hours might have been really inconvenient for him.

But most likely you're right, he only changed the oil once.

charles_guy · May 2013

hello qbrozen

from reading on here on edmunds before we leased we read over a buncha forums including this one. well, we didnt have anything to trade but its some great knowledge and power that you offer. thank you.

anyway my husband and i leased a 2013 c-rv and we posted in the proper forums and tryin to help over there though no replies but anyways so my husband likes my crv trunk space and then says ok lets look used for him but the prices are crazy insane.

we started out web looking with 2010s that were priced almost near our 2013 price and then as we went back the years we're still coming up with prices from 1999/2001 to 2005/6 that are like 5-6thousand even with clutches-need work-rust n with 200k

are these really that valuable at auction without service history. why

thanx qbrozen

p.s. philadelphia-southeastern pa region

steine13 · May 2013

This is not really an answer to charles_guy, but it's about the same subject.

I've probably mentioned before that at the Lab where I work, I'm the go-to guy for car questions for a lot of the newcomers, esp. people like post-docs from Europe who need wheels but really don't know how to go about it. These people typically have at least some ready money, but they are easy prey for dishonest local sellers, public and private.

At any rate, I just got an email from a German dude who will start working for us Monday. He mentioned needing wheels, so I remembered, there's an Italian postdoc about to leave whom I helped to buy an '06 Grand Prix last year... not my favorite car, but it was a decent deal and it has served his family well for a year.

When I asked him whether he still has it, he says (i) it's gone, (ii) prices are crazy, (iii) the KBB price for the car went *up* while he owned it, by $500, and (iv) he kept it for 10 problem-free months and then sold it for $5,300 -- $200 more than he paid for it last July.

I hope this craziness subsides as people buy new cars again and supply goes up on the used side...

Cheers -Mathias

sebring95 · May 2013

Pretty much any late-model Honda brings stupid money. gbrozen can confirm auction values but it's pretty hard to find a decent deal. There apparently are folks that put more value on a slightly cheaper used car...but for me it has to be significant savings. I helped a relative buy a new CRV last year and no amount of "wheeling and dealing" came up with a used one that was even close to a decent deal in my book. We ended up buying a brand new 2012 for about $1,500 more than a 2 year old, 20k mile used one. I just can't think of a reason to buy the used one.

tjc78 · May 2013

CRV's are known to be stupid expensive used. I'm not sure why, but it is just the way it is. It's not like they are rare or anything. :confuse:

qbrozen · May 2013

Yes, Hondas bring silly money, as others have said. Hell, I think they are silly money new, too.

Anyway... for comparison, here is what I see for EX AWD models.
2013 w/0 miles $25,500 (truecar price)
2011 w/20-28k miles $19k auction... $22k retail
2009 w/45-50k miles $15,500 auction... $18,500 retail
2005 w/100k miles $8k auction... $11k retail

So you've got around 13-14% depreciation in first 2 years, 27-28% by year 4, and 43-44% after 8 years and 100k miles. Most cars only need 3 years to hit that 8 year CRV number.

nyccarguy · May 2013

So ultimately it might be cheaper to lease the CRV for 3 years from Honda, then buy it used at the end of the lease for less than auction value?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Let's say Honda Finance gives you a 64% residual value after 3 years with your CRV. The $26,975 MSRP CRV EX that you paid $25,500 for is worth $17,264 at the end of it's lease is still cheaper than buying a used one retail :confuse:

qbrozen · May 2013

The $26,975 MSRP CRV EX that you paid $25,500 for is worth $17,264 at the end of it's lease is still cheaper than buying a used one retail

Yes.

So ultimately it might be cheaper to lease the CRV for 3 years from Honda, then buy it used at the end of the lease for less than auction value?

No.
You still paid full price for the vehicle no matter WHEN you put out the cash.

sebring95 · May 2013

Also a chance of getting stuck with a higher APR (money factor) during the lease period. Highest tier lease rate with Honda right now is in the 3.5% APR range....I'm betting average credit people are in the 4-5% range.

nyccarguy · May 2013

Right. Most of the time the financing rate apr is much lower than the lease rate.

stickguy · May 2013

well, hopefully soon when I need to dump one, 13 YO Acuras with 170K are bringing silly money too!

as soon as my son finds a job (please be soon) one of the beaters needs to go. I'll keep the other one, and he can move onto new wheels.

charles_guy · May 2013

thanks qbrozen for the confirmation of craziness prices. much appreciated

were watching this auction car, auction guy bought in auction then on clist, 2005 stick for 7500 http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ctd/3749164529.html

doesn't go after buncha clist weeks so auction guy goes on ebay. crazy ebaypeople bid it up to 6350 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NO-RESERVE-1-OWNER-CLEAN-CARFAX-NEW-CLUTCH-SUNROO- F-RUNS-GREAT-4WD-4X4-SUV-/200925937373?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2ec81e7edd

at least auction guy saw the car

thanks also sebring95 & tjc78 for replys

tellin my husband no go on crvs or subarus this year or anytime soon

stickguy · May 2013

I like that CRV. a lot. looks nice and clean, and equipped just right. Miles a tad steep for 2005, but price is not that nuts for one like that.

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