That was what i wanted to find out. After driving them both I think I prefer the V6 and am more comfortable with it's potential longevity as opposed to a turbo engine if I keep it a long time. But if I don't it looks like the V6 is likely to return a decent portion of the initial investment.
I'm going to go out tomorrow and at least drive a Volvo V70 and maybe an Audi to see what I think.
I appreciate you giving us folks a "real world" idea of what cars are worth.
OK, question for you car guys. If you see a large number of a particular model advertised in used cars, is that a good thing or bad thing for my chances of selling mine?
for example, in my town there are virtually no used '98-'99 Monte Carlos for sale in the ads. However, in another city 100 miles from here, there are at least a couple dozen at various dealerships, and their asking prices seem to be a little higher than when there was one advertised here. So does that mean that there is good action in my model over there, or does it mean that market is swamped and I'd never sell mine there?
When checking internet pricing on 99 Honda Odyssey's, I noticed that the suggested or average retail is almost the same as for a NEW 2001. Are there really people so stupid they will pay as much for a 2 year old vehicle as for a new one with the complete 36 month, 36,000 mile factory warranty?
I don't feel Honda has been really ready to compete on the -major- market......they have a very loyal following and that does get a little larger every year, and their van's has been a success.
To keep the quality of the vehicle .....they try very hard not build..the -non quality .....and now with the new van that's out, their old customers are not afraid to purchase a 1 yr or 2yr Honda van....... Try to keep in mind...and I don't say this to be smart........But, just about everybody is a "payment buyer"...They try to purchase a new one, at let's say..$26,000 + taxes and any fee's ...and the folk's are looking at payments of approx $540.00+ a month or more........Now take their neighbors, that can't afford that kind of payment..and they buy, a 2yr old Honda van that's nice..clean and well kept ......now these folk's can afford the $440 a month payment..........everyone has a budget of some sort.. --- I have had some, big time Dr.'s ..etc, ..come into my office and say - You know ...I didn't want to say anything in front of my wife, but I really can't afford that $950.00 a month payment on that Benz.....What do have to do to get around that $600..$650 figure....---- That wheel spins in every direction.............
......Food for thought....make sure you are able to "drive" the vehicles for a extended time...you know, a couple of hours.....tell the dealer that you are very interested ..(which you are)....and run 'em...Most stores do allow this......and the best thing is ..you won't have a salesperson with you telling you --- isn't nice, isn't pretty...I'm not being smart here....but you know what I mean.......
Quick story...My brother, last week was screaming ...Vette..Vette..Vette........So, I told him the same thing. Well, he had the Vette for 6 hr's ...business appt's, dry cleaners, briefcase in and out..etc........ Well, now he is in a Lincoln LS....mucho happier
I still think (Rich aka AudiA8 agrees.. he loves em) those COntour/Mystique 5-Speed V6s are neat little cars.
Now, you have to finally pull the trigger!
And I'd go for that 528i. Terry doesnt like sticks, but if it's a nice car with the right miles etc... BMW Buyers like 5-speeds... Obviously a small percentage, but you ever tried selling a 5-speed Volvo???
And what color is the 528i? Although I think we've taught ya the "dont buy a luxury car in a crappy color" deal by now It seems like a fair price. In the Northeast that car could pull $26K or so at the auction. Naturally shoot for $27K and go from there...
I never did well with the first-gen TLs... But Terry has a very very valid point.
If I could choose between a 95 Legend and a 96 3.5 RL, I'd MUCH rather have the Legend for Inventory... Personally I think the old Legend was a real home run for Acura and the RL is a pig of a car.
This is exactly why I say you need to lease certain cars.
You make an excellent observation.
Some cars get slaughtered for color. Take a 98 LS400, A Pearl White one with Ivory Leather is a home run unit. Antique Bronze? (Poo-Poo Brown metallic) That nasty deep burgandy?
Stiff as a board!
Some oddball cars can really get blasted in resale.. Like a Lexus with CLoth, etc...
Yup... Get the V6 if you want it. You'll get your money back. Remember, Passats have staggering resale value, far better than any other car in their class even comes close to.
Remember, deep discounts and rebates on them are the exception, not the rule. Nationwide, the average sales price of a 2001.5 is $380 off of MSRP. So those cars hold outstading residuals...
You'll find this car cheaper to own over 3 years than a Hyundai Accent!
ANd I just bought my cousin a Silver 2001.5 GLX Manual... WOW! She loves it... almost as much as me
The A6 is a badass car... personally I love it. And the Quattros are amazing in the snow.
V70s are not as sporty or luxurious, but that's the safest car you can buy in the class. A total Tank. A 2000 V70 GLT can be had for under $30K as well... Personally the 190HP GLT Engine is my favorite. The T5 needs a stick, but that 190HP GLT is a honey of an engine...
My theory is NEVER buy a used Honda or Toyota as resale is too good to make the purchase a wise one. I say NEVER buy a used DC minivan, Ford Taurus, Chevy Malibu, etc. that are popular as rental, lease, or government fleet vehicles as the chance of getting one of these abused dogs is too high. I have seen very few people drive a rental, lease, or government fleet vehicle in a prudent, responsible manner as a person would if they had purchased the vehicle with their own money. My experience has taught me that a less than perfect vehicle will be manifest within 10 days to 2 weeks of purchase. All the lemons I have ever owned became known to me as a lemon within that initial brief period of ownership. Traded off the dogs more quickly as I learned that life is too short to drive a problem vehicle. My neighbor felt the same and traded off his 1999 Maxima last month after just 2 years of ownership and got a Honda Accord EX 4 cyl 5 speed for his wife. Had owned the previous car (1990 Honda Accord) until they got the 1999 Maxima in March, 1999.
I wouldnt go that far... But I'd say that it almost never makes sense to buy used what is in hot as hell demand new. Take and MDX, I hear people posting on here that they have a hard time finding one at MSRP even...
Well I just read that a Silver one did $2K over MSRP in November at a DEALER AUCTION...
So that thing aint gonna be a buy used anytime soon...
Meanwhile I wouldnt buy a new Avalon or 4runner...
And they were always sold for MSRP until recently. No add ons, no hype, no high pressure, no dishonest hidden gimmicks. Most of the 7 dealerships within the local area have had this policy. Each also has had the waiting list by model, color, date of deposit posted prominently on the wall of the dealership for everyone to be able to read. One dealer says the waiting list time is now down to about 2 months for a 2001 Odyssey...depending on color and model. My sister and brother-in-law will soon be placing their order for a Taffeta White 2001 Odyssey EX for delivery in late May. Meanwhile, some sleazy dealerships of less desirable American brands are adding on the normal "high profit for dealership" items and people are not smart enough to do a little shopping. Although we love our GC SE, I would buy either the Odyssey LX or Sienna LE if we were buying a 2001 at this time. The resale of these two are much better than for DC minivans....and Bill, Terry and some others have explained why. AND now my wife and I wonder why my sister and brother-in-law are getting a desirable vehicle after owning such creations as a 1962 Corvair Monza Spyder, a ?? Studebaker Champion, a 1971 Datsun 510 wagon, a 1976 AMC Pacer, a used Chevrolet Monza Spyder, a used 1979 Ford Econoline 5 Passenger Van, a used 1982? Chrysler LeBaron (K-car), a 1997 Nissan King Cab light utility vehicle...But they did get a new 1999 Ford Escort 4 door sedan and inherited a used 1979 Impala sedan from my mother.
No, I haven't tried advertising THERE. That is the nashville market. But I was checking out the listings and since there's so many of them, I wondered if that's good for me (more demand for these Monte Carlos) - or if I wouldn't have a chance (too many).
......I laughed too......But Bill is telling you straight up, colors can change a vehicles value sometimes by a $1,000 or more.....a black S type Jag is cold in Florida....in Philly, you can sell them all day for a lot more money.......it all depends on the area..go figure...
Yesterday I almost bought a new Audio A4 1.8 Quattro. I got the price of the car down to where I like it ($700 over invoice) but the deal killer was my trade in. I have a 97 (although I bought it in Sept.96) Jeep Wrangler Sport with 47K miles on it. It is in very nice condition ( Aim grading it conservatively) that is Very Clean inside but it has a 3 very small hail digs on the hood. I looked at 3 different websites..Kbb, Edmunds and pol and all 3 said my Jeep should fetch as a trade in for $10,400 (give or take $100 or so)... what killed the deal was that the dealer for the new car I was looking at wanted to give me $9000 and would not budge. I thanked him for his time and I left (he was shocked because of how close we were to closing the deal!) Now of course I am beating myself up wondering if I did the right thing or not. With summer approaching I am wondering if I could get what I am looking for? The "Black Book" that the dealer showed me said my Jeep was only worth $9K. I can not believe that we were off that much. So do you guys think that I did the right thing? Thanks!!!
I had the same thing and I can tell you chances are you will never get more than the through the Dealer.
Edmunds, KBB, NADA all showed a range of values on my car (a 98 Chevy MOnte Carlo) but the Dealer showed me that little black book and the most they could go is $8500. That is a minimum of $3000 less than the used car guides show I could get. Now that doesn't mean I'll get it privately - so far I'm getting $0.00 privately so it all depends where you live & demand for that jeep.
That black price is their wholesale auction price that they can buy '97 Jeeps for. You did the right thing by holding off on the purchase - now go out and try to sell it yourself. As this board knows I've tried that and soon may give in and go with black book....
........ I really don't have quite enough info....options, hardtop, air, wheels, auto, color.. etc. But, based on what you are telling me.....I have to think, you guy's are REAL close......Post back....
ps ....98 monte made a good point....sometimes it's better to retail --- If you can --
I appraise a car with the Black Book because, well, it's based on what those cars are doing at auction.
And I have found that it's simply the most accurate. If you use KBB.com or edmunds (And Edmunds is working very hard on their values as we speak, so credit has to go to them) people often over-classify their cars.
Go plug in that Jeep at Kelly's site and use the "fair" category.. you ought to be much closer. That strikes me as an "average" book vehicle (With a deduct for the hail) assuming that it is clean and that it is free from paintwork.
Get us some more specifics on it and I'll tell you if the price they put on it is realistic or not..
As some of you know, if we used black book here in the northeast we would all go bankrupt. "Galves" is the industry standard up here...When I see somebody with a Black book at the auction here, I can't get him over to bid on my car fast enough...
When I went down to Nashville nobody ever heard of Galves and if I used it, I wouldnt ever get a trade in....Goes to show that used cars have huge regional differences. I was buying 1998-2000 Cadillac Devilles in New England, shipping them down to Nashville and after shipping I still had a $1200-$1500 advantage over all the local dealers...They couldnt figure out how I could sell these cars so cheap...It drove them nuts...on the other side I was buying 4wd vehicles in Nashville at auction, ship to the new england auctions and make $1200 per unit. It was like taking candy from a baby.
Ok..I am starting to realize that perhaps I may have over realized the price I may get from a dealer. This is what my Jeep has. It is a Wrangler Sport w/47k miles...it is Citron in color ( a type of Green), I had a custom stereo put into it (apprx. $2K worth) it has side nerf bars, no hard top, no air conditioning and it is a 5 speed. The interior is SPOTLESS and I dont think anybody has sit in the back of it more than 25 times in the last 4.5 years. My other question is...should I perhaps expect to hear from the dealer I was working with (we were in a disagreement of $1400)...if so what should I counter with?? Split the $1400?? Try for lower financing? Like I said the price of the new car was where I want it but like I said it was the trade in. You guys are VERY helpful...btw I live in Chicago so I am assuming that may take in consideration the regional retail of my Jeep due to weather and such....Thanks!
.......They offered 9,000........remember..no air..even in Chi-town that count's....you are not going to get much help with the stereo..( maybe the dealer will negotiate that out..? ).....and of course, it's a 5 speed....the miles save it..dent's don't.... and no HT...
Well, in my humble opinion....real money for this little beauty is -- in or around that $9000 figure.... ...If I was the dealer --- I would be thinking, a "very" quick sale...or I'm stuck with, going to have to hang air....I think you need to call the dealer, before a warm weekend..
I feel like I have NON-buyers remorse. I have been beating myself up all night and today wondering if I should have taken the deal. Hell I got up this morning around 7am and wash, polished, waxed and clean the interior and it looks beautiful and justifying in my head that my Jeep is a beauty (o.k 2 small hail dents in the hood that did not bread paint) While going over in my head "what if" scenarios in my head from the deal I walked out on (although I do admit I am kind proud of myself for not caveing in) but from what I am reading from you guys that I may have gotten a good deal. Like I said in previous posts we were $1400 apart. My question is this. Will the dealer possibly contact me within the next few days? Do I go back with my tail btwn my legs and try to take the deal laid out to me? There is another Audi dealer about the same distance from me, do I go there instead? One last and final question and it is a little off the subject. In regards to the hail damage on my hood couldn't I call my insurance company and tell them I want it fixed, have them write me out the check for the damage and use that toward the purchase of a new car or should I get it fixed as long as that it does not affect my insurance in a negative fashion.... again thank you for any advice that I receive from this board.
Citron.. isnt that an almost Neon like color? If so it's not that hot to be truthful.. though I dunno on a Jeep.
But you said No A/C. That's a killer. Terry's on the money and I agree. I think it's an $8,500-9,500 vehicle.
I went an took a peek at what they have been doing at auction. Take A/C And Automatic out of the equation and the prices drop sharply. Personally, I'd only even think of trading it when it's cold out. No A/C Makes it unsellable in the summer. It would be virtually worthless here in Florida.
And take that system out. The Jeep is worth the same with or without the Stereo. Put the stock system back in if you still have it or at least take out the bass box..etc.. And sell em on eBay or something. That'll help you recoup some of the money.
I'd try going to the Other Audi dealer, tell them where you'd like to be and see if they can do better, or see if you can try to split the difference with the one that you're dealing with now.
From what I have seen here, $700 over on an A4 seems to be a very strong price...But shopping around isnt a bad idea at all.
On a skinny deal, there is no room for a dealer to pay you more for your trade than it's worth.
If he can buy these all day at auction for 9000.00, why would he pay you more? If it's a four cylinder, these are REALLY hard to sell. Most buyers want the six.
I am now seeing that I had a good deal and I should have taken it. I will contact the dealer tomorrow and see if he is still willing to go with the offer from last night (Will he?) If not, Like I said I can go to one that is about the same distance. I just wish I would have asked you guys in the first place. Thank You!
Some sites may say that retail on a 99 Ody is around MSRP... I doubt you could get it for one. I'd say $2K-3K back of MSRP on a new one, that's until they start substantially discounting the new ones.
And as far as cars with strong resale... As a rule it will be the Europeans and Lexus (excepting the ES300s.. I think those are about to tumble even further). Look for cars that are in strong demand and are not strongly discounted as a rule and are also in semi-short supply.
BMW 3-Series, Mercedes C-Class, Acura TL (Though theyre starting to cheapen off at the auctions now that market on 2001s is like $500 over invoice) all do very well. So will the Lexus IS300, the Audi A4. Currently a 1999 BMW 328ia in, say, Silver with 25K miles is worth, wholesale, at least $25K with the right equipment. Infinitis do not do that well.
However, color and equipment are also very important.
On the cheaper front, Volkswagen Passats, when properly equipped, have tremendous resale value, much stronger than anything else in their class.
But, what were you looking at? I can give you an idea.
and if its been mentioned im sorry...but dont forget the trade-in sales tax savings. This is essentially increaseing the value of the trade since you dont have to pay sales tax on the trade in amount.
Thanks for the input. If the buyer gets her loan through (s/b on Monday, the Merc' will be gone on Wednesday. Actually a win/win, in that I get 5k, whe gets a very clean car that should give years of cheap service.
Anyway, I am serously considering the '98 528i (color TBD, but probably green or blue). I really like the S70GLT, really p.o.'d that I missed the '98 with 24K miles for $21,000 (1 local owner, super clean). Of course, now that I am almost carless, no more diddling.
Anyway, found 2 more choices (same dealer as the volvo), haven't driven yet.
1) 1998 Maxima SE, Auto (decided that will be OK for now), loaded except for Bose. 23k, not sure on price.
2) 1998 Lexus GS400, 32k miles, asking $30,995. Now this is one mean looking car.
whats your expert opinion on these 2? Any concern that the Lexus isn't a certified car?
Also, the Max will probably be a 1-2 year car (until the next mid life crisis), the Lexus I would plan to keep for a long time (same for the 528i if I get that).
I looked at Acuras with the family this weekend. Did not car for the old style ('98). Steering was too light, and felt to "old". Did like the new one, which I can get for about $26,500 (if they don't run out of stock before the 2002s (come out).
Right now, the Max for about 17-18K, the Lexus at about 30, the 528i for about 28k, and the new TL for 26.5k are the leading candidates, but some dark horse cold come streaking up the backstretch, although my wife might leave me if it is too bizarre.
I dunno... I mean, the initial undersupply of IS300s is over, so theyre being discounted instead of selling at full whack, but I think that they're going to do pretty well. It's seen as a "cool" car, and your typical Lexus buyers are not buying them (I did work for Jimmy Bryan for some time).
However the ES300 gets revamped after this model year (This summer) and has become a "giveaway" car, and the residuals on them seem to be dropping. There's oodles of em at Ocoee and the values on them seem to really be crashing.
The 97 that we'd have to pay $20,500 for in August or July is now a $17K car...
.....Those Volvo's ..I love em' ...that's a nice vehicle that S70 GLT...is a very clean car...I know you will love the Bimmer..cause it's a five speed ..l..o..l.......
The Maxima SE..very sporty and a lot of people love them...and, that should not cost you much over $15,000
The Lexus GS400...now, that's a Fat Daddy car...everyone loves those...even my Nana....if the Lexus is clean to the bone...and it's "stand tall" ...that would be the way I would go that's seem's to be a great price....BUT...you need to drive them all....I mean drive them....
Saw this one at an auction (just a fantasy car): '97 XK8 convertible, BRG, tan, chrome factory wheels, 51K, a couple chips and dings but overall very nice and cared for, AZ car. Ran up to $38K but No Sale. Pros at the auction said the buyer was too greedy and should've taken the $$. Your take?
The color is OK... Personally I love BRG But it's nowhere near as good as Topaz (Light Gold), Sapphire Blue or especially Silver on 98+s.
Miles don't help. Low-mile XK8s are quite common, and miley ones are tough.
BRG is also ONLY good with Coffee (Saddle) Leather.
Those wires kill the car too.. Figure $1,250 for a nice st of 17" Alloys to de-pimpify the car.
I'd put a buy number on it of $33-34K if it's otherwise nice.
$38K? He shoulda taken the money and ran. Kruse was running a nasty-colored on with Wires last year out west (Aquamarine) with 61K. It too was a no-sale.
Yeah, this one was from a Kruse auction in AZ recently. It wasn't on wires, just the OE wheel chromed. It looked damn sharp in BRG but if I were really buying I'd want Sapphire on Cream.
Rumor was the guy was holding out for $40K plus, but in a room with guys buying 60's muscle cars and classic Ferrari's, he was dreamin'. Guess the seller was thinking a Ferrari Daytona buyer would be outbid and have $100K burnin' in his pocket and would want a nice ride home. Reality was the room was full of dealers looking for a steal. Not at $38K.
You can get a clean XJ8 for 30K with lowish miles? Not that I can see myself owning one, but it might be neat just for the shock value.
The more I look at these prices, the more I realize that I would be nuts to buy a BMW new. The Acura yes, since it is a "mini" that will hold it's value.
BILL: Since you are so close to the Lexus market, do you agree that 30-31K for a '98 GS400 is a strong retail price? Also saw a '98 GS300 (probably more than enough car for me), asking $29,900.
What is the real world difference in price between the 300 and 400?
I tell ya, if I keep talking to you guys, I'm going to end up with something in the garage that my wife will not understand (so it better be real comfy for the passenger, since she loves the new BMW).
........I think that guy with the Jag had a hearing deficit....He, probably thought the bid was at $28,000....or he had something more valueable in the trunk l.o.l......with the miles and such...I'm very surprised it went for that much...most of the clean and low miles (25K+ ..light colors ) ones are running for that figure.....But, on any given day....
GS? yick. Wooly Steering and wimpy chassis. Me no like. But $29,900 is no steal for the 98 GS300 unless it's a 20K mile silver one (Silver/Black or Lt Charcoal is the money color on that car).
$30-31K is a deal on a nice GS400, just dont get poo-poo Bronze metallic, Imperial Crap I mean Jade (Dark Green), that nasty Cinnabar red or that Black Cherry color.
Spectra Blue is also quite weak but I personally like it a lot.
17" Wheels are a big plus on a GS400 and "make" the looks of the car.
Figure another 15% or so for a V8. The 300 is fair powerwise, the 400 is a rocket. But Im not in love with how it drives.
And, yup! A Nice, low-mile XJ8 can easily be had for under $30K if you look. But the prices for them are all over the board. COlor makes a huge difference in Price. That TOpaz (Light Gold Metallic) is way high... and I dont like it. Anthracite (Metallic Black) isnt too expensive, especially with a Charcoal Interior. Sapphire is sorta pricey but stunning. Silver is way up there too. Titanium (Steel Blue) isnt that bad pricewise either.. and I love it. Very classy. British Racing Green is cheap, and a true Jagaur color.
$24,500-25,500 or so is wholesale on a 40-45K mile one right now, $26,500-27,500 buys a 30K mile one. They are bulletproof mechanically and absolutely a dream to drive. I think they ride better than the GS, they're a blast to run around a twisty road and the 290HP V8 will rocket the car to 60 in 6.9 Seconds. They also have 100K tune-up intervals and get 24mpg on the highway.
Bear in mind that we both know you're gonna pay $2,500 over auctiona s a minimum for a nice one if you do well ($350 auction fee..transport..etc..) and add another $1,000 to that if the car is sold as a "Select Edition" car ($895 Cost) at a Jaguar Dealership but that gives you a 6-yr/100K mile warranty from the car's in-service date that covers darn near anything.
Before you do anything else, promise me you will drive one??? Please?
As you can tell I love these cars!
Oh, and what about a 1999 Volvo S80 2.9? Now that's also a heck of a car but nowhere near as much fun to drive.
Comments
I'm going to go out tomorrow and at least drive a Volvo V70 and maybe an Audi to see what I think.
I appreciate you giving us folks a "real world" idea of what cars are worth.
Scott
for example, in my town there are virtually no used '98-'99 Monte Carlos for sale in the ads. However, in another city 100 miles from here, there are at least a couple dozen at various dealerships, and their asking prices seem to be a little higher than when there was one advertised here. So does that mean that there is good action in my model over there, or does it mean that market is swamped and I'd never sell mine there?
Are there really people so stupid they will pay as much for a 2 year old vehicle as for a new one with the complete 36 month, 36,000 mile factory warranty?
I don't feel Honda has been really ready to compete on the -major- market......they have a very loyal following and that does get a little larger every year, and their van's has been a success.
To keep the quality of the vehicle .....they try very hard not build..the -non quality .....and now with the new van that's out, their old customers are not afraid to purchase a 1 yr or 2yr Honda van.......
Try to keep in mind...and I don't say this to be smart........But, just about everybody is a "payment buyer"...They try to purchase a new one, at let's say..$26,000 + taxes and any fee's ...and the folk's are looking at payments of approx $540.00+ a month or more........Now take their neighbors, that can't afford that kind of payment..and they buy, a 2yr old Honda van that's nice..clean and well kept ......now these folk's can afford the $440 a month payment..........everyone has a budget of some sort.. --- I have had some, big time Dr.'s ..etc, ..come into my office and say - You know ...I didn't want to say anything in front of my wife, but I really can't afford that $950.00 a month payment on that Benz.....What do have to do to get around that $600..$650 figure....---- That wheel spins in every direction.............
I hope this makes some sense....
Terry.
Quick story...My brother, last week was screaming ...Vette..Vette..Vette........So, I told him the same thing.
Well, he had the Vette for 6 hr's ...business appt's, dry cleaners, briefcase in and out..etc........ Well, now he is in a Lincoln LS....mucho happier
Have fun......
Terry.
And I think you can do a bit better than $2,000 selling it yourself. I think $3,000-3,500 is what I'd want to shoot for..
Hope this helps and Good Luck!
Bill
Now, you have to finally pull the trigger!
And I'd go for that 528i. Terry doesnt like sticks, but if it's a nice car with the right miles etc... BMW Buyers like 5-speeds... Obviously a small percentage, but you ever tried selling a 5-speed Volvo???
And what color is the 528i? Although I think we've taught ya the "dont buy a luxury car in a crappy color" deal by now
Good Luck and keep us posted!
Bill
I never did well with the first-gen TLs... But Terry has a very very valid point.
If I could choose between a 95 Legend and a 96 3.5 RL, I'd MUCH rather have the Legend for Inventory... Personally I think the old Legend was a real home run for Acura and the RL is a pig of a car.
Bill
You make an excellent observation.
Some cars get slaughtered for color. Take a 98 LS400, A Pearl White one with Ivory Leather is a home run unit. Antique Bronze? (Poo-Poo Brown metallic) That nasty deep burgandy?
Stiff as a board!
Some oddball cars can really get blasted in resale.. Like a Lexus with CLoth, etc...
Stuff like that you really do need to lease...
Bill
Remember, deep discounts and rebates on them are the exception, not the rule. Nationwide, the average sales price of a 2001.5 is $380 off of MSRP. So those cars hold outstading residuals...
You'll find this car cheaper to own over 3 years than a Hyundai Accent!
ANd I just bought my cousin a Silver 2001.5 GLX Manual... WOW! She loves it... almost as much as me
Bill
The A6 is a badass car... personally I love it. And the Quattros are amazing in the snow.
V70s are not as sporty or luxurious, but that's the safest car you can buy in the class. A total Tank. A 2000 V70 GLT can be had for under $30K as well... Personally the 190HP GLT Engine is my favorite. The T5 needs a stick, but that 190HP GLT is a honey of an engine...
Bill
It's possible but maybe it's just a bigger market? Where we talking about (Arent you in TN?)
Tried that market's newspaper???
Bill
My experience has taught me that a less than perfect vehicle will be manifest within 10 days to 2 weeks of purchase. All the lemons I have ever owned became known to me as a lemon within that initial brief period of ownership. Traded off the dogs more quickly as I learned that life is too short to drive a problem vehicle.
My neighbor felt the same and traded off his 1999 Maxima last month after just 2 years of ownership and got a Honda Accord EX 4 cyl 5 speed for his wife. Had owned the previous car (1990 Honda Accord) until they got the 1999 Maxima in March, 1999.
Because a lot of people still wait on line to pay $2,500 over MSRP on a new one!
It's still a super hot Van... Heck, wholesale on em is like $3500 back of invoice on a new one.. and I'm talking on a 30K mile 99!
Bill
I wouldnt go that far... But I'd say that it almost never makes sense to buy used what is in hot as hell demand new. Take and MDX, I hear people posting on here that they have a hard time finding one at MSRP even...
Well I just read that a Silver one did $2K over MSRP in November at a DEALER AUCTION...
So that thing aint gonna be a buy used anytime soon...
Meanwhile I wouldnt buy a new Avalon or 4runner...
Bill
Meanwhile, some sleazy dealerships of less desirable American brands are adding on the normal "high profit for dealership" items and people are not smart enough to do a little shopping.
Although we love our GC SE, I would buy either the Odyssey LX or Sienna LE if we were buying a 2001 at this time. The resale of these two are much better than for DC minivans....and Bill, Terry and some others have explained why.
AND now my wife and I wonder why my sister and brother-in-law are getting a desirable vehicle after owning such creations as a 1962 Corvair Monza Spyder, a ?? Studebaker Champion, a 1971 Datsun 510 wagon, a 1976 AMC Pacer, a used Chevrolet Monza Spyder, a used 1979 Ford Econoline 5 Passenger Van, a used 1982? Chrysler LeBaron (K-car), a 1997 Nissan King Cab light utility vehicle...But they did get a new 1999 Ford Escort 4 door sedan and inherited a used 1979 Impala sedan from my mother.
"Antique Bronze? (Poo-Poo Brown metallic) That nasty deep burgandy?
Stiff as a board!"
Just as as I thought. Guess I'll have to lease to get what I want and not get beat up down the road. Thanks!
Terry.
Edmunds, KBB, NADA all showed a range of values on my car (a 98 Chevy MOnte Carlo) but the Dealer showed me that little black book and the most they could go is $8500. That is a minimum of $3000 less than the used car guides show I could get. Now that doesn't mean I'll get it privately - so far I'm getting $0.00 privately so it all depends where you live & demand for that jeep.
That black price is their wholesale auction price that they can buy '97 Jeeps for. You did the right thing by holding off on the purchase - now go out and try to sell it yourself. As this board knows I've tried that and soon may give in and go with black book....
ps ....98 monte made a good point....sometimes it's better to retail --- If you can --
Terry.
When I was with the NJ Jguar dealer a Black/Black XK8 was hot property...
So was darn near any Black Jag. So I'd buy em in Orlando and "steal" them.
Bill
I appraise a car with the Black Book because, well, it's based on what those cars are doing at auction.
And I have found that it's simply the most accurate. If you use KBB.com or edmunds (And Edmunds is working very hard on their values as we speak, so credit has to go to them) people often over-classify their cars.
Go plug in that Jeep at Kelly's site and use the "fair" category.. you ought to be much closer. That strikes me as an "average" book vehicle (With a deduct for the hail) assuming that it is clean and that it is free from paintwork.
Get us some more specifics on it and I'll tell you if the price they put on it is realistic or not..
Bill
When I went down to Nashville nobody ever heard of Galves and if I used it, I wouldnt ever get a trade in....Goes to show that used cars have huge regional differences. I was buying 1998-2000 Cadillac Devilles in New England, shipping them down to Nashville and after shipping I still had a $1200-$1500 advantage over all the local dealers...They couldnt figure out how I could sell these cars so cheap...It drove them nuts...on the other side I was buying 4wd vehicles in Nashville at auction, ship to the new england auctions and make $1200 per unit. It was like taking candy from a baby.
Rich
Well, in my humble opinion....real money for this little beauty is -- in or around that $9000 figure.... ...If I was the dealer --- I would be thinking, a "very" quick sale...or I'm stuck with, going to have to hang air....I think you need to call the dealer, before a warm weekend..
Maybe this help's ...
Terry.
Citron.. isnt that an almost Neon like color? If so it's not that hot to be truthful.. though I dunno on a Jeep.
But you said No A/C. That's a killer. Terry's on the money and I agree. I think it's an $8,500-9,500 vehicle.
I went an took a peek at what they have been doing at auction. Take A/C And Automatic out of the equation and the prices drop sharply. Personally, I'd only even think of trading it when it's cold out. No A/C Makes it unsellable in the summer. It would be virtually worthless here in Florida.
And take that system out. The Jeep is worth the same with or without the Stereo. Put the stock system back in if you still have it or at least take out the bass box..etc.. And sell em on eBay or something. That'll help you recoup some of the money.
Bill
I'd try going to the Other Audi dealer, tell them where you'd like to be and see if they can do better, or see if you can try to split the difference with the one that you're dealing with now.
From what I have seen here, $700 over on an A4 seems to be a very strong price...But shopping around isnt a bad idea at all.
Bill
If he can buy these all day at auction for 9000.00, why would he pay you more?
If it's a four cylinder, these are REALLY hard to sell. Most buyers want the six.
No hardtop? Another detraction.
You might want to talk to him again.
Some sites may say that retail on a 99 Ody is around MSRP... I doubt you could get it for one. I'd say $2K-3K back of MSRP on a new one, that's until they start substantially discounting the new ones.
And as far as cars with strong resale... As a rule it will be the Europeans and Lexus (excepting the ES300s.. I think those are about to tumble even further). Look for cars that are in strong demand and are not strongly discounted as a rule and are also in semi-short supply.
BMW 3-Series, Mercedes C-Class, Acura TL (Though theyre starting to cheapen off at the auctions now that market on 2001s is like $500 over invoice) all do very well. So will the Lexus IS300, the Audi A4. Currently a 1999 BMW 328ia in, say, Silver with 25K miles is worth, wholesale, at least $25K with the right equipment. Infinitis do not do that well.
However, color and equipment are also very important.
On the cheaper front, Volkswagen Passats, when properly equipped, have tremendous resale value, much stronger than anything else in their class.
But, what were you looking at? I can give you an idea.
Bill
Now, may I make another suggestion... get the A4 in Silver or Black.
Bill
Rich
Terry.
Anyway, I am serously considering the '98 528i (color TBD, but probably green or blue). I really like the S70GLT, really p.o.'d that I missed the '98 with 24K miles for $21,000 (1 local owner, super clean). Of course, now that I am almost carless, no more diddling.
Anyway, found 2 more choices (same dealer as the volvo), haven't driven yet.
1) 1998 Maxima SE, Auto (decided that will be OK for now), loaded except for Bose. 23k, not sure on price.
2) 1998 Lexus GS400, 32k miles, asking $30,995. Now this is one mean looking car.
whats your expert opinion on these 2? Any concern that the Lexus isn't a certified car?
Also, the Max will probably be a 1-2 year car (until the next mid life crisis), the Lexus I would plan to keep for a long time (same for the 528i if I get that).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Right now, the Max for about 17-18K, the Lexus at about 30, the 528i for about 28k, and the new TL for 26.5k are the leading candidates, but some dark horse cold come streaking up the backstretch, although my wife might leave me if it is too bizarre.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
However the ES300 gets revamped after this model year (This summer) and has become a "giveaway" car, and the residuals on them seem to be dropping. There's oodles of em at Ocoee and the values on them seem to really be crashing.
The 97 that we'd have to pay $20,500 for in August or July is now a $17K car...
Bill
1998 Jaguar XJ8.
Bill
The Maxima SE..very sporty and a lot of people love them...and, that should not cost you much over $15,000
The Lexus GS400...now, that's a Fat Daddy car...everyone loves those...even my Nana....if the Lexus is clean to the bone...and it's "stand tall" ...that would be the way I would go that's seem's to be a great price....BUT...you need to drive them all....I mean drive them....
Terry.
'97 XK8 convertible, BRG, tan, chrome factory wheels, 51K, a couple chips and dings but overall very nice and cared for, AZ car. Ran up to $38K but No Sale. Pros at the auction said the buyer was too greedy and should've taken the $$. Your take?
The color is OK... Personally I love BRG But it's nowhere near as good as Topaz (Light Gold), Sapphire Blue or especially Silver on 98+s.
Miles don't help. Low-mile XK8s are quite common, and miley ones are tough.
BRG is also ONLY good with Coffee (Saddle) Leather.
Those wires kill the car too.. Figure $1,250 for a nice st of 17" Alloys to de-pimpify the car.
I'd put a buy number on it of $33-34K if it's otherwise nice.
$38K? He shoulda taken the money and ran. Kruse was running a nasty-colored on with Wires last year out west (Aquamarine) with 61K. It too was a no-sale.
Bill
Rumor was the guy was holding out for $40K plus, but in a room with guys buying 60's muscle cars and classic Ferrari's, he was dreamin'. Guess the seller was thinking a Ferrari Daytona buyer would be outbid and have $100K burnin' in his pocket and would want a nice ride home. Reality was the room was full of dealers looking for a steal. Not at $38K.
The more I look at these prices, the more I realize that I would be nuts to buy a BMW new. The Acura yes, since it is a "mini" that will hold it's value.
BILL: Since you are so close to the Lexus market, do you agree that 30-31K for a '98 GS400 is a strong retail price? Also saw a '98 GS300 (probably more than enough car for me), asking $29,900.
What is the real world difference in price between the 300 and 400?
I tell ya, if I keep talking to you guys, I'm going to end up with something in the garage that my wife will not understand (so it better be real comfy for the passenger, since she loves the new BMW).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And I agree that Sapphire is the flat-out best color for that car it's absolutely stunning, especially with the chrome wheels.
Sapphire/Cream (97) or Sapphire/Ivory (98+) is just sooooo beautiful...
But dammit I'm 6' 2.5" >:|
And, at $38K I doubt there was a dealer with a brain in their head bidding on it... lol...
Bill
Terry.
$30-31K is a deal on a nice GS400, just dont get poo-poo Bronze metallic, Imperial Crap I mean Jade (Dark Green), that nasty Cinnabar red or that Black Cherry color.
Spectra Blue is also quite weak but I personally like it a lot.
17" Wheels are a big plus on a GS400 and "make" the looks of the car.
Figure another 15% or so for a V8. The 300 is fair powerwise, the 400 is a rocket. But Im not in love with how it drives.
And, yup! A Nice, low-mile XJ8 can easily be had for under $30K if you look. But the prices for them are all over the board. COlor makes a huge difference in Price. That TOpaz (Light Gold Metallic) is way high... and I dont like it. Anthracite (Metallic Black) isnt too expensive, especially with a Charcoal Interior. Sapphire is sorta pricey but stunning. Silver is way up there too. Titanium (Steel Blue) isnt that bad pricewise either.. and I love it. Very classy. British Racing Green is cheap, and a true Jagaur color.
$24,500-25,500 or so is wholesale on a 40-45K mile one right now, $26,500-27,500 buys a 30K mile one. They are bulletproof mechanically and absolutely a dream to drive. I think they ride better than the GS, they're a blast to run around a twisty road and the 290HP V8 will rocket the car to 60 in 6.9 Seconds. They also have 100K tune-up intervals and get 24mpg on the highway.
Bear in mind that we both know you're gonna pay $2,500 over auctiona s a minimum for a nice one if you do well ($350 auction fee..transport..etc..) and add another $1,000 to that if the car is sold as a "Select Edition" car ($895 Cost) at a Jaguar Dealership but that gives you a 6-yr/100K mile warranty from the car's in-service date that covers darn near anything.
Before you do anything else, promise me you will drive one??? Please?
As you can tell I love these cars!
Oh, and what about a 1999 Volvo S80 2.9? Now that's also a heck of a car but nowhere near as much fun to drive.
Bill