Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

qbrozen · December 2004

you have to pay the state sales tax in the FIRST state in which you reside and register the car. That's it.

tkane11 · December 2004

We are considering trading in my VW for a new Subaru . Since the VW is paid off what we would like to do is take the trade-in credit/money (~$10k) and apply it to the outstanding balance on my wife's loan so we can pay that one off and still have only 1 payment per month. Both the old loan and the new loan would be through Subaru(Chase). Is this something dealers are willing/able to do?

Thanks.

dbauer · December 2004

the dealer can do it...ive done it before. just make sure they know about it at the start of your deal, and make it part of your offer.

steine13 · December 2004

"Is this something dealers are willing/able to do? "

What is the dealer's role in this? Have them cut you a check, do with the money whatever you like. If the question is, "can I trade in a car without applying the money towards the new car loan", the answer is yes. It's your money, the dealer probably couldn't care less, IF your credit is good.

-Mathias

jglackin · December 2004

of the loop. On paper, it should not be a problem for the dealer to show a Trade Allowance of $12000 (I'm assuming about 10 for your trade and 2 for a discount just for math purposes), and a payoff of $10000. They can write that check to me if you'd like - as long as you have the title and no lien on the trade. You understand my point, I'm sure. The cleanest transaction for you would be one where that check comes to YOU, so YOU know when YOU mailed it to the bank to payoff the car. Strange things happen in accounting offices at the dealerships. The only potential problem that I could see in doing it this way is if the bank is going to require proof of payoff of current car loan to do the new deal - in that case, you won't have a choice. If your credit is good, and you make enough money to support another car payment, you should be okay.

stickguy · December 2004

the other thing to be careful of is losing the sales tax credit on the trade. I couldn't quite connect the dots in this scenerio, but that could be an expensive oversight.

danf1 · December 2004

If you set up the money as a payoff to whatever bank you want to payoff you will keep the tax credit assuming that your state allows for a credit.

jglackin · December 2004

my scenario would allow for a tax credit as well. I assumed, I hope correctly, that that was the secondary intention.

dbauer · December 2004

the car to actually be traded AGAINST the one being purchased. in KY, OH, and IN, the deal has to show the difference in balance for the actual trade-in.

IOW, if they show $10k for the trade, but you still pay the full price on the new car, you lose out.

insane · December 2004

Hello,

The seller has a $25K loan on his vehicle, and he is asking me to pony up $18.5K (which is the price I agreed to pay) before the title clears.

I may consider making Cashier's Check payable to his lender, but I want to consult the board members for opinion.

Also, the seller is leaving the state in 7 days. I think I'm working against a time constrain as well. So! Whats the consensus??

It's a 2003 Explorer Sport Trac 2WD XLT with 5,300 miles loaded to the tee - leather/heated/powerseats, moon roof, hardbed cover, extended cage, side air bag, premium sounds, cd changer, bed line.

dbauer · December 2004

getting it for $18500, jump! this thing has a retail book of over $20k.

Kirstie_H · December 2004

I wouldn't pay anything until you've confirmed that he's paid the remaining $6.5K. Otherwise, if it's a scam, you're just paying $18.5K off his loan, and you still owe $6.5K to get a clear title.

driftracer · December 2004

Also, you said yourself that you can get a new one JUST like it for about $1500 more - out the door. Why risk all the worry about whether this guy is a flake and/or liar?

Don't let HIS problems become YOUR problems. Buy new - you can choose your favorite color!

rroyce10 · December 2004

...... Based on his/her numbers, it's a $29ish vehicle, invoice would be around $27ish, then minus the rebates, $23ish plus the taxes and stuff .......

           Pay-off.? .. call the bank yourself and tell them what your doing, then set up an appointment to meet the guy at the bank with the check (with the manager waiting), one for the pay-off and he should have the balance, when the bank drops the title, you can drop the check ... if the bank manager is aware of what you and him are doing, and has everything set-up to rock n' roll, then it shouldn't take much more than 20/30 minutes after all of the jib-jab ...

            I wouldn't depend on the seller (not because he might be a bad person) but because he "thinks" he knows how it's done, then your both sitting there with the "dead mullet look" ...... good luck and let us know .!

                               Terry.

driftracer · December 2004

he already got an OTD price, with taxes, of $20,000 or so. Makes no sense to me, if that price is accurate, to buy used from a guy who wants you to do the money shuffle and secure against and unsecurable.

Of course, if that new price was a lowball, then meeting at the bank makes all the sense in the world.

I would be VERY suspicious, though, since the seller seems to have changed his tune in the middle of the song (on a few things).

rroyce10 · December 2004

....... Slaaaaap.! wake-up .. thats based on a base XLS .....

Terry.

dbauer · December 2004

even with a-plan, a loaded sport trac stickers at $31000, has an a-plan price of about $27000, and if you are active military, buy before x-mas, and your grandmother stands on her toes while whistling dixie, you MIGHT get $5k in rebates...then add your taxes.

a base sport trac with a manual tranny stickers around $26k. invoice is around $24k. with all rebates, plus taxes, $20k OTD is about right.

driftracer · December 2004

if they want to compare an XLT to an XLS, that's their business - they guy acted like he'd do either vehicle - what do I care? I'm just here at the game, throwing beer on the players, hoping for a fight so I can get paid, baby...

The DOLPHINS beat the PATRIOTS?? Why couldn't Miami play like that all season...a trashed season, and they cowboy up and beat the best team in the league (I have no respect for the Eagles..).

rroyce10 · December 2004

.. I'm just here at the game, throwing beer on the players ..l.o.l....

   **The DOLPHINS beat the PATRIOTS??** ...

          I'm stunned ..............

                               Terry.

robr2 · December 2004

**The DOLPHINS beat the PATRIOTS??**

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

driftracer · December 2004

but why didn't they do that all along, instead of crying over the fact that Ricky Williams failed his third test and jetted off to study Holistic Medicine..?

xcel · December 2004

Hi All:

___Would dealerships knowingly sell their new automobiles down into an unprofitable final or maybe $100 - $300 over H/B (also unprofitable) for an increase or possible choice in next years inventory allocation? Does it work this way? Isellhondas has confirmed no hidden internalized incentives on 04 and 05 Accords but they are falling out of the trees around the country right now Does Ford, GM, or DCC dealerships ever do this?

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne R. Gerdes

driftracer · December 2004

leftover models, sure - that's good business. Make them go away, even if it hurts for the short-term, it'll pay off in the long run.

mirth · December 2004

insane - like Terry said, if the guy's lender has an office (bank if it's a bank), then just go down there with him and they can sign off on the title right there - no waiting.

If the lender doesn't have branch offices nearby (like an out-of-state lender), then make him pay it off and give you a clear title before you pay him anything. If he can't, find another Sport Trac. It's just not worth the risk of losing $18K.

insane · December 2004

Mirth,

The seller's lender is through Ford. He needs to mail in his payment. The seller owns his own company, and I've been to his business.

I'm willing to give a 10% cashiers check down payable to Ford Credit as a deposit.

Once the title clears, he'll get the remaining balance. If you guys still think it's a bad idea,

I'm all ears. I have until this afternoon to good to my bank.

===============================================

Dbauer,

I don't know where you come up with those figures, because I have an X-plan ID with Ford, and the price for a new 2004 XLS is $18.4K (tax, fees, prep = 20.3K OTD).

With the 2003 used car, I will be paying less in tax. In addition, the car has just been registered for 2005 in the state of CA, and it is transferable - that's another few hunder bucks I saved.

Quoted from Dbauer:

even with a-plan, a loaded sport trac stickers at $31000, has an a-plan price of about $27000, and if you are active military, buy before x-mas, and your grandmother stands on her toes while whistling dixie, you MIGHT get $5k in rebates...then add your taxes.

a base sport trac with a manual tranny stickers around $26k. invoice is around $24k. with all rebates, plus taxes, $20k OTD is about right

driftracer · December 2004

"loaded sport trac"

That's an XLT with some other options, not an XLS he's speaking of.

An XLS isn't "loaded" by any stretch, unless you call it "loaded with value".

I should go back into the business - I'm danged smooth...

dbauer · December 2004

thank you driftracer. x-plan and a-plan are also different things. they are about 4% apart from each other.

the XLS is by no means a loaded vehicle. what i said was that, at invoice, your deal is doable on a manual tranny model. with x-plan, you can probably fit an automatic in there.

the XLT is the upper model, so even though the XLS has power windows and a CD player, its still a base truck.

xcel · December 2004

Hi All:

___I just read in a Prices Paid forum that some states are going to enact a tax on automobile inventory after tonight (12/31/2004)? This is about the fastest way I can think of to kill a car dealership let alone how can you collect on inventory that moves on a 30 - 60 day basis? Is there any truth to this discussion?

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne R. Gerdes

dbauer · January 2005

mostly not...since new cars do not have an "owner", you cant tax them...just like other retail businesses arent taxed on inventory the same as sales tax.

robr2 · January 2005

Many states have many different tax laws. There could possibly be inventory taxes, personal property taxes, et al that affect all businesses - not just car dealers.

rroyce10 · January 2005

...... Depending on what State and county, there is usually a inventory/property tax ....

Terry.

dsattler · January 2005

In my state (Maryland), my business is taxed on all property and inventory/stuff it owns at the end of the year. I think this is true in many states, not just mine.

dbauer · January 2005

is that most dealerships dont own their own inventory. its on a floorplan financed by their respective manufacturers.

Kirstie_H · January 2005

Most retail businesses incur inventory tax - that's why there are massive mark-downs on retail inventory during the last week of the year. I know it sounds like it would kill a business, but it is a known factor when going into retail business, and built into the expense projections.

Many states also have property tax on homes, but it's paid into escrow through your mortgage payment, so you don't feel the hit all at once at the end of the year. I suspect many businesses plan similarly.

kirstie_h, Host

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steine13 · January 2005

"Many states also have property tax on homes, but it's paid into escrow through your mortgage payment, so you don't feel the hit all at once at the end of the year."

OH YES YOU DO.

Sorry. That's my biggest bill of the year, summer tax is over $3k all at once... most of my cars were less than that to buy.

Escrow can be bad 'cuz some lenders try all kinds of shenanigans with it... I've considered it anyway, for psychological reasons alone.

I'll go away now... -Mathias

imidazol97 · January 2005

The end of the year for one business where I used to live was in March. They loaded as much inventory onto railroad cars as they could, so it wouldn't be included in their inventory to be taxed for country and school taxes.

Apparently that occurred whether or not it was being shipped or not. This was machinery, so a lot of value could be put onto the railroad siding.

Kirstie_H · January 2005

My point was that if it's built into the payment, you don't get a single whopper of a bill. Obviously, if it's not built-in, you do.

Unfortunately, my personal property tax on vehicles/boats here is NOT built in to the payment (no escrow), so it is an end-of-year hit. However, if you're in business, you have to plan throughout the year for the inventory or property tax.

kirstie_h, Host

Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper Discussions

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jlawrence01 · January 2005

Two points:

1) Most business owners attempt to reduce the inventory prior to year-end. This is generally accomplished by lowering orders in the month of December. Sure, some car dealers will incentivize a year-end sale but ... you are NOT going to get something for nothing, which is what some people think.

2) Escrow is required by some mortgage holders as they want to ensure that you pay your taxes. It is, however, negotiable. I refuse to deal with a lender who requires an escrow. Why should they get to hold onto my money??

hartt · January 2005

While helping my Dad shop for a new vehicle we noticed that the starting MSRP on identical vehicles varied. We were looking at the '05 F-150. There were two vehicles on the lot equipped with the exact same options but the prices were different. I noticed that the starting MSRP was several hundred dollars different. Can someone tell me why?

Thanks.

driftracer · January 2005

in their invoice and MSRP pricing occasionally - it depends on when each vehicle was built and shipped - I've seen as many as 5 or 6 price changes during a model year.

jaserb · January 2005

where an early build date model was almost $1000 less than an identical truck built late in the model year. Pretty sneaky way to compensate for the increase in incentives as the model year progresses.

-Jason

driftracer · January 2005

imidazol97 · January 2005

Pretty sneaky way to compensate for the increase in incentives...

They could always do it like Honda and keep the incentives secret and let the dealer decide how much he will have to negotiate away to keep selling the cars. People are going crazy over in the Hondas=R-Us discussion on pricing trying to decide how much incentive has been given to the dealers since it's all secret.

I'd rather know the incentives. I observed the last 3 purchases that GM increased LeSabre prices at least 3 times during the model year. It's price efficient to buy early in the year and enjoy the newness longer than to buy at the end of the year, pay more or only slightly less after incentives are added. Shopping real early I'm always in with all the GM employees getting their huge discounts while I still have to pay for my car at whatever I can negotiate... Not a good feeling about the pricing structure.

Driftracer: Is there a difference in value to the dealer for a car sold to GM employee compared to selling a car to a regular customer?

driftracer · January 2005

is pretty straight forward - the dealer gets a flat fee for selling it, and in some cases, makes out better on low-profit, high-volume vehicles, like Grand Ams that would have sold in a screamer ad anyway.

Not on rigs like Suburbans, Tahoes and Denalis, though.

hartt · January 2005

Is the dealer under any obligation to disclose any/all rebates being offered or is it up to the buyer to be educated.

We received the rebate on the vehicle but didn't get the $500 rebate for financing through FMC.

cornellpinoy · January 2005

When a manufacturer repurhases a vehicle back from a consumer due to lemon law, customer disatisfaction, etc. what happens to those cars? Are they fixed and then sold as a Certified Pre Owned at dealerships? Do they go to auctions as-is or do they repair them before its shipped off to an auction? Is the problem or repair disclosed at the auction? Does it show on the title?

There are 2 used car lots that I pass by during my daily commute. I'm amazed by the number of current model year Merecedes, BMW, etc on their lots. I'm pretty sure these were purchased at auction, most likely manufacturer buybacks. Is it worthwhile to consider buying a current model year car at an independent used car lot that was bought at an auction?

driftracer · January 2005

it doesn't mean it's a repurchased lemon...

Dealers send excess inventory, grounded demos, service loaners, etc through auction. Reposessions are sent through auctions. Rental car companies send the majority of their vehicles through auctions.

For instance, it's very common to have a rental car that was born 6 months ago, current year model, but already hit 25-30k and needs to go away, so it goes off to auction.

If a vehicle IS a repurchased lemon, depending on the state, it is very well marked and disclosed to a prospective buyer. Dealers know that vehicles like this have branded titles, so they don't buy them for sale as used vehicles - think Buy Here, Pay Here lots for those..

Unless, of course, we're talking about a dealer group in PA I used to work for that is now under more than 40 indictments for consumer fraud...

cornellpinoy · January 2005

Yes, I realize that not all cars at auctions are lemons. But when I drive by these 2 lots and they both have 3-4 each of an '04 S-class, '04 7-series, '04 E-class, etc. I really wonder about how they got them and if these would be great buys or not. I've seen a few MBs on ebay that claim to be manufacturer reconditioned buybacks. I'm just wondering if there really is such a thing and if these cars I'm seeing here are similar or not. How else can a small lot have such an impressive inventory of newer higher end cars? I can't imagine these are all rebuilt salvages or unrecovered thefts.

driftracer · January 2005

like the plague - you can't finance them, and warranty companies won't cover them, plus their factory warranty is usually affected.

Ebay is pretty much the only place for them. Or BHPH lots.

The 7 series BMWs have HUGE depreciation hits - may high-end used car guys like them because of a decent buy-in cost, and high perceived value (great profit potential). If I had a high-end used car lot, I'd buy them, too. And more than 3 or 4.

rroyce10 · January 2005

...... 60/70% of the vehicles you see at the "Fat Daddy BMW store" or the "Bigger than life Benz store" come from the auctions - the 05's have been running thru since August .. business as usual. If the dealer is short in inventory and is only seeing 50/70/90k trades coming at him, then there is pretty good chance he will dump those trade-ins at the auction and buy some new stuff with low miles, it's done everyday ...

            Ebay.? .. walk softly and carry a big stick, "you" need to do your homework on *any* vehicle .. but on the "high end" market there is plenty of nice, clean low milers getting bought and sold, most get traded because they "can" - and lets be honest, quite a few get traded because some bit off, more than they can chew .. just because you drive a fat daddy ride doesn't mean you have money ....

            "Rebuilt salvages or unrecovered thefts and buyouts/lemons" .. these ain't Kia's and are very few and far between in the *Big Money Market* .. but like any factory buyouts/lemons they are there, and you need to be aware of it and do your homework ...

                             Terry.

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