Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Thanks.
In Maryland, when you buy a new car, do you have to pay tax on the destination charge? My uncle's in the market for a new car, and he was curious. I tried looking through the paperwork on my Intrepid, and I honestly can't tell. The destination charge was shown on the window sticker, but not on the actual bill of sale, so maybe they knocked it off or something?
If all else fails, use Priceline. I am not aware of them being discounted except in very rare circumstances (Used 02s with, say, 5K miles are wholesaling for $1,000+++ over original invoice at least). But you can find em at MSRP without beating your head in.
If it helps, they are really cheap to own. 1999 Odyssey EXs with, say, 40K miles still wholesale for $19K+++ and retail for $21Kish, real $$.
Hope this helps!
Bill
In the minivan market, there is simply no equal to the Odyssey, and that's borne out by their market demand.
Anyone ever seen/owned some of the vehicles that are made in some socialist countries? I had a Skoda once, and let me tell you, even at $50, that car was no bargain.
Ed
I seem to remember a similar vehicle a few years back that dealers were getting MSRP plus on. Now you can get a PT cruiser much closer to invoice price than MSRP.
This makes everyone happy. the MFG make out ok, Dealer makes $$$, consumer pays MSRP but has a resale value that would make most minivans buyers jump for glee. Everyone wins.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
BTW, my sister just bought an Odyssey (the only car she considered). Paid MSRP + $750 in San Diego for an EX with Leather and DVD entertainment system in the color she wanted (white). She waited a couple of months for the exact combination, although she was never on a formal waiting list. She was told that many of the local dealers have been tacking on 1000 to 2000 to MSRP, so she felt she got a good deal.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Well-run corporations follow a practice of keeping the "window of econonic opportunity" as small as possible as opposed to charging the maximum the market will bear. The greater the difference between cost and selling price, the greater the potential for attracting investment capital to the profit opportunity,
ie. -competition.
GM would love to stick in its big behind (through advertising - not product quality or content) if Honda were to raise its selling price.
As it stands they sell a patently inferior product at a patently inferior price. So they get a remnant of this market by inducing their dealers to virtually give the product away.
Honda has ruled the van market since the inception of the Odyssey, and, being the kind of company it is, will rule it for a long time to come.
If you look at sheer sales volume, the DC vans are still the winner.
The question is, who nets more, DC selling hundreds of thousands or Honda selling about 50K/year?
We liked the Odyssey, but we were not bowled over by it. It seems the hype is even bigger than the product. However, the big negative was we were not so enthralled with the local Honda dealers, nor with Honda America since neither of them were even remotely interested in locating a unit to test drive.
By the time we drove the vehicle, our frustration level made us hyper-critical of the vehicle. Not to mention our concern that if the dealer and Honda America were not so help during the sales process, how could we ever count on them if something bad should happen to our vehicle.
They Odyssey is not a bad vehicle. I just don't believe it lives up to the hype that preceeds it.
TB
I think what most people kinda forget is .. there is many different want's and needs. Some people want them bigger, wider, taller, smaller, lower, greener, bluer ..etc, etc. That's what makes the market go around...
Honda as well as Toyota has done very well, watching Co's like MBenz, that have made limited, but wonderful vehicles.
What would make the "test of time" is, if Honda had to make 5 times the amount of Vans to meet the market -- But, I agree with you .. I think they are happy where they are. Why rock the boat...?
Terry.
Increase production? OK. New plant. About 1 billion. OK. Where to locate? Can they get workers? How do they train workers? OK. Now, off the get EPA permits, etc. OK. Now four and 1/2 years later, we're lucky if we trickle out a few units. Now, what is the consumer demanding?
Honda, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes seem to be able to produce at about the demand level. The benefits:
1. You sell all units.
2. Low carry cost for dealer.
3. Great resale for consumer.
4. You produce quality units and gain a reputation for quality/dependability.
5. You have the ability to bring new innovative products to market sooner because focus isn't on building as many as you can as fast as you can. (you have financial and human resources available).
6. You have a good product mix for dealers/consumers without old, stale products.
Just my take on this,
Jack
I am not knocking Toyota or Honda. They make great cars. All I am saying was that the way I was treated I thought was poor. You may go and have a great experience. All Toyota and Honda models aren't HOT sellers and they do not sell all they make of every model. Some have rebates and special financing to help move slower selling models. And some models sell close to invoice.
I know I am over simplifying this, but all I was trying to say was that if you as a business can sell 50,000 widgets at full price( dealer invoice) why not try to sell more? If I have 50,000 widgets in stock and sell them all I will never know how many I could have sold if I had 100,000 widgets in stock.
Now, as I said before, there are other dealers out there that will work hard for your business and treat you well.
You didn't like the Toyota dealers attitude, so you got a Vibe instead of a Matrix. Ok, so you probably saved, what, $2000 max? Did you get a 5 year/ 60K warranty with your Vibe? Which do you think has better resale value? Did you get online and try Priceline or Autobytel on the Matrix?
Ed
You can have a great product and still have a good attitude. I experienced this bad attitude at a number of Toyota dealers.
Thanks guys
not argumentative, just curious.
Ed
Mike
Bill
I should have said i knew where the Manheim auctions were. I was at Newburgh just this past Wed. 14 lanes now, it surely has grown since a couple of years ago when i was last there.
Manheim's taking over, huh. I see they took over the Albuquerque auction. It used to be ADT, or, something like that.
Are there any in Rhode Island?
Anyway, thanks for your help!
Mike
Ifn ya ask me.. give it 6 months or so. $5-6K over MSRP is too high IMO when sooner or later they will come down. A lot to pay to be one of the first!
Bill
I just resent it when they insist that the MSRP is $2000 more than *Honda* says it is. Do they not think that serious buyers ever do any research? Or is it just female buyers? That is, of course, in addition to the questionable and inflated fees with mysterious names. Local dealers here actually bump the sales tax from 3% to 3.2% on their paperwork. I agree with masspector, Honda dealers don't do themselves any favors. I don't hate the profit, just their sense of entitlement to it, and their refusal to *honestly* deal with a customer.
Yes, I have and am considering long-term ownership costs. Having owned three other Hondas, I know how great they are. I will eventually end up with the Ody I want, but I refuse to stretch my monthly payments to something I can't afford. I will try Priceline and Stoneage, and we have a friend in the next state who is a Honda salesman. I have no burning desire to walk out of the showroom keys in hand tomorrow, so I can afford to wait. The dealer who tried to sell me the $30500 EX model, and had no qualms telling me to take my business to another dealer when I tried to negotiate, is already calling me back only one day later. His tough luck, now.
The important thing is to not deal with dealers who jerk you around. I mean, Odys, as we know, go at MSRP. However I dont think you should pay over that.
Ideally, you should, as a buyer, shoot to pay less, but I dont think that's likely in the current market. But we're both aware. Right now, only 2 cars that I know of command over MSRP as a rule. The 2003 SL500 and the New Mini. I think the new Marauder will be close too.
So, shop to find a dealer who will treat you the way you should be treated!
If I were you, why not just call your friend if you can't get what you want locally? I just had (2 months ago) to buy a Vehicle for my "Civilian: company.
No dealer in the NY City area had it that was easy to deal with. So I called a friend of mine at a store in Philadelphia, told him what I wanted, and had it shipped in.
Simple and easy
Bill
Who HATES aggravation
And no one ever actually answered the nitty-gritty details in my original post: for those of us who buy new cars infrequently, it helps to know how dealer cost actually works, and what a reasonable profit is. Yes, I know it works differently for different makes and models, and different regions, but surely we can get a general idea. What's average - 5% over cost? 1%? 10%? All I want to know is what is insulting to offer to the dealer, and what is taking advantage of the buyer? I can negotiate in the middle range in good faith if I know where to start. (I don't think offering MSRP on the Ody is an unreasonable starting point to open negotiations.)
All I want is a fair deal all the way around - the dealer and salesman can make a good living, and I can get a good car at a reasonable price. And we all get treated respectfully.
We are, by the way, working with our out-of-state friend. It's worth a two-hour drive to save $4,000 (plus interest, when you finance). I suspect the salesmen and dealers would do the same if they were in my shoes.
Additionally, firecapt, if the car you want is not a hot seller, then invoice should be a fair price, nobody says that it isn't. However, if you think that you're going to get a high demand car for invoice, then you're fighting the laws of price vs. supply and demand, and you will most likely lose that battle.
I get people in here every day that want a Sequoia or a Highlander at invoice. They use the same argument that "you're already making holdback, etc" that you bring up, but my reply is simply that there is someone else who will be here tomorrow that will be willing to pay $1500 more than you will, so why should I lose the opportunity to make the dealership that additional revenue? We literally give a lot of cars away under cost, and people refuse to believe that. Sure, its made up in other areas most of the time, but the books for the new car dept *should* show a profit somehow, don't you agree?
Ed
Keep in mind, dealers always spend their monies first, for everything. Holdback is nothing more or less, than an amount to "help defer" that cost of holding these inventories. Which the dealer, depending on his financial structure, waits anywhere from 30 to 300 days to even receive .. -- Holdback is not profit, and never has meant to be a profit source. By the time a dealer receives his $900 .. he has spent well over that figure, and the potential income will help defer his cost .. which at that time, could be an easy $1/$1,2/$1,400.
The days of the 25/30% mark-up in vehicles have looooong been over with. Most dealers now, are trying to keep 2/3%, that's a small profit for such a huge endeavor.
Now, if you owned a few Furniture stores .. and make 200% on your inventory, that's a whole different ball game.... l.o.l....
I hope this makes sense ...
Terry.
Rich
You do display a bit of sarcasm with your "conutry Club" comments...perhaps that turned off your Pathfinder salesperson?
I do hope you find what you are looking for, and I hope you don't try to buy a Pilot for invoice.
I challenge Edmunds and the other car sites to quit trying to prove that they can publish the lowest possible invoice prices for a car that you could "possibly" create. Be realistic for a change, quit hiding the "reality" in the fine print.
Ed
And I agree with Isell and Ed, your attitude probably killed the sale, right from "jump street" ...
Do you think you are doing the dealer a favor by him/her loosing money ..?
Gheeez, why do you think dealers have so much money ..? Especially now, with 19yr old kids, making bundles on the internet selling door knobs. Perhaps you can save up, and get that chip on your shoulder surgically removed .....
Good luck ...
Terry.
Ed
And...please...spare us the "future" business stuff...
Figure the car you want. Figure out what you're willing to pay for the silly thing, then buy it if you can. All this stuff, invoice, holdback, sticker, ad nauseam... who cares?
Get value for your transportation dollars, that's the only thing that matters. Not how the dollar figure breaks down.
Of course, it helps to know the figures, but in the end, you make an offer and get a car. Or not.
You should never get your panties in a bunch over all this stuff... the Ody is a prime example; we were ready to swallow hard and plunk down $27k on one of those babies... until we tried to back it down our 1929 vintage driveway. NO WAY! Got a Sienna now; another good van. But the Ody at sticker is a screaming bargain, if it fits someone's needs.
I remember "stealing" a Prizm late in the year... got behind holdback on that puppy, simply because they had to get rid of it... but no animosity in the process... I remember the salesperson telling me "but you're only $250 apart...", and when I replied "yeah, but the way he's talking, they're all MY $250!", she started laughing... I even agreed to buy the car for a figure, "just let me go and sell my car on the street, I'll be back in a week or so"... then they run after me in the parking lot and offer me a ridiculous figure for my old car, so they can get the no-sale-blue lot queen off their hands. This supply/demand thing cuts both ways. Nobody'll run after you for an Ody/Pilot/Highlander/...
Bad weather on a Sat afternoon, can you tell?
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
Advertising fees, though, are a different story. Isn't that part of the cost of being in any business? Could someone explain why advertising fees are necessary in the car selling business, as opposed to any other business?