You need to post your question over in real world trade in values forum.
azldw---I would ask them if they have any at the port or if any are on the way. Try a buying service like priceline, raybear can help you there. Not sure about carsdirect or autobytel, but you may want to try them also.
If you're having a hard time buying an Elantra, why not just get a Mazda Protege. I know Protege's are a bit more expensive but they are a lot more car and I just can't imagine going to a lot of trouble buying a car and ending up with a Hyundai.
Go to the Protege5 board in the "Hatchbacks" section. There are comparisons to the Elantra GT ad nauseum. If you want a 3-door hatchback I would still go with a Focus ZX3 (or SVT), or even a Volkswagen Golf (if they still make them).
VW just churned out the x (I forget the exact number, but it's truly huge and surpasses the Beetle) Golf. They're much more popular in Europe than they are here, but they're a good bit more expensive than an Elantra or Protege5. To the poster who needs a hatchback, this might sound like an off-the-wall suggestion, but have you thought about an off-lease Saab 9-3? A '99 or even '00 can be had for Elantra GT prices.
If the books/web-sites are correct in saying that dealers often pick up trade-ins for less than TMV, an obvious question is where and how can a customer check that inventory? At the local Toyota and Honda dealerships in my area, the Used car section seems to only carry 98, 99, and newer models. Do cheapskate customers looking for a teenage beater have a chance at bidding on last week's trade-ins before the dealer invests a lot of $$ in "Dealer Prep"? Is this a feasible way to buy a used car "cheap" since the dealer has locked in a profit by beating the TMV trade-in value?
Find the used car manager and ask to see what he has parked back by the dumpster. If you see one you like, make an offer. Be prepared to see "as is, no warranty given or implied" on the buyers contract. My question to you, Why would you want a member of your family driving something that may not pass a simple safety inspection?
that reputable dealers do not want to retail beaters. Even with an "as-is" disclaimer, the dealers don't want to take the hit to their reputation when the junk breaks down. They also don't want the expense of making it roadworthy (if that's even possible). These cars will go to the auction and end up on the little corner car lot.
I was using the cool Edmunds tools to tell me what my car was worth (a Acura Integra LS, 115k, great cond.) It says that "others are getting" $5,200 on a trade in for the car. Yet, the Lexus dealership here offers me $3,100--a total deal breaker.
I had a friend of mine who was also undercut on a trade-in offer. But the San Diego Lexus dealer in my area really won't negotiate much on trade-ins from what I saw. So--are the Edmunds values *seriously* inflated?
speaking as a dealer, I have found the Edmunds values to be most realistic with newer low mileage trades. Keep in mind edmunds is just a "guesstimate" albeit a very good one. As they say your mileage may vary. As for our dealership we would not re-sell a car with 115,000 miles on it. We would wholesale it, which means getting bids from wholesalers. Obviously they want to make something on the transaction as well. Finally, the common sense approach. If your car should trade for $5200, ask yourself if you would buy the same car for $7-8000, on a lot knowing nothing about that car? Probably not. Without knowing more about your car, year, transmission, body etc I can't give you my opinion of your cars worth. Max
Good Morning all! I have a friend who's father is interested in purchasing a 2002 Nissan Pathfinder. He really only needs and SE, but went to the dealer to look around and the salesman showed him this "fully loaded Pathfinder LE the the owner of the dealership has been driving and has only 5,000 miles." The truck is an almost loaded to the gills Pathfinder LE (no Navigation system) that has an MSRP of $36,601 and an Invoice (according to Edmunds) of $33,055. They've offered to sell him the truck for $30,750 (first offer) plus TTLR. Is this a fair price to pay for a Pathfinder like this with 5000 miles? Thanks for your help!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
A individual with any ethics at all wouldn't even consider buying, selling, or even walking near a vehicle that was suspicious of a rollback. It simply is against everything a dealer is supposed to stand for.
Why would a dealer sell a car with a rolledback odometer? Dealers deal with millions of dollars each month. You don't risk reputaion with public and the wholesalers you need over a couple of dollars.
Small or independant wholesalers wouldn't last long if they associated themselves with activities like that.
It equates to "Why don't you mug a guy on the street for his wallet"?
My wife and I will be in the market for a two-seat sports car in the near future, most likely a new Porsche Boxster or Corvette. Do any of you sell these types of cars? And if so, do you allow folks to take them for a test drive without a salesman present? We want to test drive one together, which makes it impossible for a salesman to accompany us. I imagine it depends on dealership policy--with other non two-seat cars, some accompany us, and others toss me keys and say "go out and enjoy the ride." Maybe it doesn't hurt that we pull up into the dealership in a luxury vehicle?
BTW, Jocko in Texas doesn't appreciate what you said.....he runs an honest business and you are just trying to bring him down........ he will be calling on you shortly.
When I sold BMW's the car always had to be accompanied by a representative of the store. Some places have more lax policies, but I don't think it would be wise to allow someone out in a high-end car without supervision.
If I were in the market for a two seater and wanted to test drive the car with my wife, I'd expect to be allowed to do so. If I wanted a more extensive experience with the car prior to purchase, then I'd find one to rent for the weekend.
But as a customer I should not have to compromise my buying decision because a dealer is worried about his demo fleet. That's what insurance is for. Cars are wrecked and stolen from dealerships every day, many times by dealership employees including new car salesmen. I don't believe dealers have restricted their employees from driving cars so why should customers be restricted?
Our store just renewed our insurance policy. In order to keep premiums similar to what we had been paying, our collision deductible is now $10,000 (It was $5000)! Someone on an unaccompanied demo drive is fully responsible for this. It's unfortunate, but thats the way it is.
We will allow short test drives unaccompanied if the customer signs a form that they will cover the vehicle with their insurance. Unfortunately we have had to use the form to get a damaged or wrecked car paid for. Like everything else in the car business I don't think consumers really understand the true cost and scale of the business. By the way bret most dealers do not allow the employees to drive the cars without a specific reason, ie test drive.
Curious--if I, as the customer, wrecked or damaged a new car during a test drive, would MY insurance policy not be responsible for and cover the repair/replacement bill?
That's a good question. If I were in the market for a new car I guess I'd want to know if I'm covered in some way.
I like VOLVOMAX's idea of having customers accept responsibility for insuring themselves on a test drive. While on one hand I think this is an area that business should make invisible to customers (asking for proof of insurance suggests irresponsibility) it may be one of those things whose time has come. I'm sure a smart dealer can find a way to mask rising insurance costs and still give shoppers a feeling of confidence.
My local Mini dealer today let me take both a base Mini and a Mini S on unaccompanied test drives.
I just went to the dealer to sit in one (was curious to see how much interior room they had), and when I got out the salesman was staring at me. He asked if I had driven one yet, and when I said no, he asked which one I wanted to drive. I hesitated and he said to drive them both. Made a copy of my license and tossed me the keys. I drove up in a Focus and am 23 but look a few years younger, so I was a bit surprised. I wasn't asked to sign any insurance waivers or anything, either.
Actually, my Focus has two odometers, the digital one in the dash and another in the ECU. If the numbers don't match, the Ford dealership would know the next time they hooked it up to their computer system.
Tiredofmanual, how did the Mini drive? I looked at them the other day at the BMW dealership and thought they looked really nice for a small car. Most of them had add-ons to the original sticker. One had a long list that added about $1000 to MSRP and it also had a T-shirt listed for $25..... I wonder if they would make me take the T-shirt?
M.
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
The Mini is a lot of fun to drive. It would be tough to beat one in an autoX. It feels glued to the road, and the handling is outstanding. The base doesn't feel underpowered, but the S model is noticeably quicker. Both have heavy clutches, and I liked the base transmission better than the 6-speed in the S. The seats look a little strange, but are very adjustable and comfortable. I was surprised to discover that I (being about 6'1") didn't need the seat all the way back or all the way down, even with the sunroof (which is huge). All in all, I would take the base model over the S, especially since the salesman told me that in a few months there would be performance parts available that would be warranted through Mini (much like Dinan and BMW).
The dealership had many cars with add-ons, but they don't require them. They are also selling at straight MSRP. The combination of those two is probably why the salesman said it would take 3 months for an order - because they've already used up their allocation for July.
The only stat about rollbacks that recently caught my attention was 10-20% of all leased vehicles have been rolled back by the consumer to avoid excess mileage charges.
When I got in the biz 20 years ago a few of the sleazy used car dealers were still "clocking cars" but I have not heard or seen proof of a dealers clocking in many years....We have way to much to lose....consumers on the otherhand have little risk and big gains in clocking cars!!
Of course, many mfg. can still pull the actual mileage off a non-working odometer via the cars internal computers. Most clocking consumers dont realize this. Eventually somebody will get screwed and it all will hit the fan. Dealers will be blamed. haha
I suspect that the majority of odometer rollbacks are done by "sleazy" used car lots (ie, not reputable dealers).
The modern way of rolling back and odometer (especially the digital ones) is to install a switch that actually deactivates the entire instrument cluster. So in esscense the miles are not being rolled back, but are not even being put on the car. The actual reading is like 5 miles for every 100 put on or something like that.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
Are being done everyday ! Even on the new digital speedos. Laptops with a homemade program can even reset the computer itself.......and fool the dealer computer !
I just got a cold call from a dealership that I bought a used car from back in 95! He asked if I was looking for a new car. When I told him I had just bought one he pressed on to see if I had any relatives looking. I couldn't hang up him fast enough.
I'm real surprised this dealership would call me since I a major problem w/ their service dept. and had it out w/ the manager over the incident.
I hope now I'm off their list. Then again I keep getting letters to refinance a mortgage we closed in 96.
Who can tell me what each of the numbers in the 17-digit vin number signify? I know the 10th indicates model year. I'm interested to know which reveals the most recently produced. Thanks!
and I can't find the perfect forum to ask the question so here goes (I'm hoping a dealer can answer my question).
With about a week left on the auction, my car is already very close to the reserve price (set at what I owe), so I think it's going to sell. The thing is, Ford Credit holds the title. As soon as the buyer gives me the money, I'm going to pay off the loan and Ford will send me the title (right?). In the meantime, will the buyer be able to register the car in his name and drive it around? How? I've never sold a car before so I'm a little worried about how the whole thing will go through.
In my state, a clear title signed over to the buyer is needed to register a vehicle.
So if I buy your vehicle, I must wait for your lein holder to release the title to you and for you to sign it over to me. Then I can present it to the RMV along with their forms and various checks in order to get a new title and registration in my name. Technically, the car could sit in the driveway for a couple of weeks.
What some people have done is arrange for multiple checks. One check is made out to the lein holder for the payoff amount and one check made out to the seller for the balance which would be handed over in exchange for the title. Of course there has to be a little trust in this as the buyer is paying off the seller's car.
Do you have any free cash to pay off the lein so you have a clear title to hand over?
Make sure you state that payoff is $X, and that that portion of the sales price must go to Ford Credit. You can have Ford Credit send the title straight to the buyer...
Easy! Or call your local Ford Credit office, sometimes they have the titles there and will give it to ya right then and there with certified funds.
I'll call up Ford Credit tomorrow or Friday and find out where the title is being held. Unfortunately, the down payment on my new car puts me just below what I need to pay the car off right now. Well, I guess it's a good thing that I mentioned in the auction description that I'll be handing over the title as soon as it is released to me. At least the winning bidder can't complain about the delay.
well maybe the winning bidder hasn't focused on those words.Would you give a perfect stranger your money and he gives you nothing in return but a promise?
Every time I've purchased something, I've sent money off and everytime I received a package in the mail with the goods I bid on. I've sold things on eBay before and it worked the same way. If the buyer doesn't trust me, then the buyer is going to have to come to me and give me the money. I'll write up a bill of sale, give him the receipt, and let him haul my car away. When the title comes, I'll sign it and overnight it to him, proving once again that I am worthy of trust.
Maybe this question has been answered before but I don't want to look thru 1500 posts to find it. I live in Maryland and if I negotiate a price between MSRP and Invoice of say $20,000 and there is a Rebate of $3,000 that I choose to apply to the purchase price and I choose to put $5,000 of my own cash on the price, what amount am I paying sales tax on? $20,000 - $17,000 - $12,000? I know that the difference isn't a whole lot but a couple of hundred buck less out of my pocket is a lot to me. Thanks.
is usually paid on the selling price before any rebates or downpayment is made. Don't let downpayments and rebates confuse the issue. You pay sales tax (usually, I can't speak for every jurisdiction) on the item's selling price, not on how much of it you finance or pay after a downpayment.
If a car's price is $20,000 and there is a customer rebate of $3,000 available then you could choose to receive a cheque for the rebate and then go pay $20,000 + tax for the car. Or you can use the rebate as a downpayment and pay $20,000 + tax - $3,000.
Similarly, your own downpayment doesn't enter into the sales tax equation (except on leases, but that's another issue). After all, if you were to put $19,500 down you would not expect to get away with only being taxed on the remaining $500.
Comments
azldw---I would ask them if they have any at the port or if any are on the way. Try a buying service like priceline, raybear can help you there. Not sure about carsdirect or autobytel, but you may want to try them also.
I am not a dealer, just some suggestions.
I had a friend of mine who was also undercut on a trade-in offer. But the San Diego Lexus dealer in my area really won't negotiate much on trade-ins from what I saw. So--are the Edmunds values *seriously* inflated?
Scott
Keep in mind edmunds is just a "guesstimate" albeit a very good one. As they say your mileage may vary.
As for our dealership we would not re-sell a car with 115,000 miles on it. We would wholesale it, which means getting bids from wholesalers.
Obviously they want to make something on the transaction as well.
Finally, the common sense approach. If your car should trade for $5200, ask yourself if you would buy the same car for $7-8000, on a lot knowing nothing about that car? Probably not.
Without knowing more about your car, year, transmission, body etc I can't give you my opinion of your cars worth.
Max
Try visiting a used car dealer to see what he'll pay for it-cash. That's one way to find the car's wholesale value.
Also, see "Real World Trade In Values" here in Smart Shopper.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
Your Integra has high miles. It may also be a bad color, be a bit rough, reek of cigeratte smoke...I don't know...all used cars are different.
You can always run an ad and try to sell it yourself.
But I read an article somewhere recently that still claims a good 40% of used cars on the market today have been rolled.
Anyone care to comment?
A individual with any ethics at all wouldn't even consider buying, selling, or even walking near a vehicle that was suspicious of a rollback. It simply is against everything a dealer is supposed to stand for.
Why would a dealer sell a car with a rolledback odometer? Dealers deal with millions of dollars each month. You don't risk reputaion with public and the wholesalers you need over a couple of dollars.
Small or independant wholesalers wouldn't last long if they associated themselves with activities like that.
It equates to "Why don't you mug a guy on the street for his wallet"?
BTW, Jocko in Texas doesn't appreciate what you said.....he runs an honest business and you are just trying to bring him down........ he will be calling on you shortly.
But as a customer I should not have to compromise my buying decision because a dealer is worried about his demo fleet. That's what insurance is for. Cars are wrecked and stolen from dealerships every day, many times by dealership employees including new car salesmen. I don't believe dealers have restricted their employees from driving cars so why should customers be restricted?
Unfortunately we have had to use the form to get a damaged or wrecked car paid for.
Like everything else in the car business I don't think consumers really understand the true cost and scale of the business.
By the way bret most dealers do not allow the employees to drive the cars without a specific reason, ie test drive.
I like VOLVOMAX's idea of having customers accept responsibility for insuring themselves on a test drive. While on one hand I think this is an area that business should make invisible to customers (asking for proof of insurance suggests irresponsibility) it may be one of those things whose time has come. I'm sure a smart dealer can find a way to mask rising insurance costs and still give shoppers a feeling of confidence.
I just went to the dealer to sit in one (was curious to see how much interior room they had), and when I got out the salesman was staring at me. He asked if I had driven one yet, and when I said no, he asked which one I wanted to drive. I hesitated and he said to drive them both. Made a copy of my license and tossed me the keys. I drove up in a Focus and am 23 but look a few years younger, so I was a bit surprised. I wasn't asked to sign any insurance waivers or anything, either.
The penalities are SO severe that only an idiot would do this. Also, the modern digital odometers I have heard are near impossible to roll back.
Still...I guess anything is possible...?
M.
The dealership had many cars with add-ons, but they don't require them. They are also selling at straight MSRP. The combination of those two is probably why the salesman said it would take 3 months for an order - because they've already used up their allocation for July.
When I got in the biz 20 years ago a few of the sleazy used car dealers were still "clocking cars" but I have not heard or seen proof of a dealers clocking in many years....We have way to much to lose....consumers on the otherhand have little risk and big gains in clocking cars!!
Of course, many mfg. can still pull the actual mileage off a non-working odometer via the cars internal computers. Most clocking consumers dont realize this. Eventually somebody will get screwed and it all will hit the fan. Dealers will be blamed. haha
Rich
The modern way of rolling back and odometer (especially the digital ones) is to install a switch that actually deactivates the entire instrument cluster. So in esscense the miles are not being rolled back, but are not even being put on the car. The actual reading is like 5 miles for every 100 put on or something like that.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD, 2025 Toyota Camry SE AWD
speedos. Laptops with a homemade program can even
reset the computer itself.......and fool the dealer computer !
I'm real surprised this dealership would call me since I a major problem w/ their service dept. and had it out w/ the manager over the incident.
I hope now I'm off their list. Then again I keep getting letters to refinance a mortgage we closed in 96.
Peeter
With about a week left on the auction, my car is already very close to the reserve price (set at what I owe), so I think it's going to sell. The thing is, Ford Credit holds the title. As soon as the buyer gives me the money, I'm going to pay off the loan and Ford will send me the title (right?). In the meantime, will the buyer be able to register the car in his name and drive it around? How? I've never sold a car before so I'm a little worried about how the whole thing will go through.
So if I buy your vehicle, I must wait for your lein holder to release the title to you and for you to sign it over to me. Then I can present it to the RMV along with their forms and various checks in order to get a new title and registration in my name. Technically, the car could sit in the driveway for a couple of weeks.
What some people have done is arrange for multiple checks. One check is made out to the lein holder for the payoff amount and one check made out to the seller for the balance which would be handed over in exchange for the title. Of course there has to be a little trust in this as the buyer is paying off the seller's car.
Do you have any free cash to pay off the lein so you have a clear title to hand over?
Easy!
Bill
If a car's price is $20,000 and there is a customer rebate of $3,000 available then you could choose to receive a cheque for the rebate and then go pay $20,000 + tax for the car. Or you can use the rebate as a downpayment and pay $20,000 + tax - $3,000.
Similarly, your own downpayment doesn't enter into the sales tax equation (except on leases, but that's another issue). After all, if you were to put $19,500 down you would not expect to get away with only being taxed on the remaining $500.