Its called the "bird dog fee". Most Around Syracuse NY area do it ! Most pay 50 bucks a pop ! If they sell a car to someone YOU guided to a certain salesman......I got 10 bird dogs last year ! 2 so far this year ! (Big family...Both sides get that killer GM employee discount ! )
BTW: I have yet to get one into Iselpotiacs dealer yet ! I am trying dude!........geo
One thing I've learned and it's copied in the one thing I know for sure - these same folks who scream at the thought of a car dealer making a dollar on them have never owned a business - not one that's still in business, anyway.
it always a good agrument to bring up other indrustries...we all know how micrsoft is hurting by the way VW posted something like a 4 billion profit..it tells you somthing about how much the manufacturer makes off a car........the poor salesman might make a 100.00 bucks but the manu. probably makes 5,000.00 and my other argument is "how the heck does one get the money to buy a car?"
perhaps only two K in the usa I think they get more for them overin europe there more like 32k retail and that is their major market...... ford makes a ton on the explorer..
to your question "why would anyone be silly enought to buy a new car" the same reason they put full length mirrors on the glass at the dealship, make sure you take a test drive, etc.....EGO! certainly not to save money!
Oh NO! Bill is back. Hide the Vauxhalls and the Beer!!
Hey Bubba, we've been busy while you were gone.. we've got a whole topic devoted to this question.
My answer is: Because there are 3-series bimmers, Toyota Tundras, Odysseys, and a bunch of other cars that are so dear in the used market that new warrants a close look.
The last six months have probably done a lot to tilt things back into he used direction. And note I'm not talking about Taurus and Buick Century.
I bought an '03 Sienna a few weeks back, and consider it a deal no worse that what I could have gotten a used one for. Incentives, 0%, changed option packages etc. can make a lot of difference.
said "I continue to be amazed though at the people whose big thing is how much profit a store is making rather than concentrating on the overall value to them."
I do not care how much profit the store makes. I, as the buyer, am trying to figure out how much wiggle room the dealer has, just like rivertown alluded to.
Lets say the "actual" cost to the dealer was $10,000. Dealer A has the car for $14,000, Dealer B has the car for $13,000. I know from these advertised prices that there is at least $1,000 wiggle room somewhere. But without being in the dealers accounting office and knowing the actual cost, I am just shooting in the dark if I walk in and tell you I want to pay $9,000. Will the dealer sell me the car for $10,200? Maybe, maybe not. A lot of factors go into that. But I need to at least have some idea before I make an idiot of myself at the dealership. Thats where doing exhaustive research comes into play.
As far as value goes, let me give you an example from another product. I recently purchased a computer game that I had been interested in. It cost $39 at most retailers. I wasn't particuularly looking for it, but I was in a store that had it on promo for $9 as a loss leader, so I bought it. So is the better "value" getting the exact same product for $9 or $39? Which is a better use of my resources (money)? I knew the market (ie it cost $39 most places and maybe $35 online) and I knew a good deal when I saw it. Paying more than you have to for something does not increase its "value".
Still, I suppose we are all different. Personally, I've got much better things to worry about than worrying about if I could have saved a few bucks by shopping myself to death.
"That is strange. Why, if the Suburban is a good seller would there be such a large rebate? That makes no sense to me. Any GM guys with any input?"
Not a GM guy but here's my input anyway.
Bottom line is that GM needs to maintain sales in order to maintain cashflow and profitability.
The Suburban is popular and generates great profit per unit for GM. But if they didn't offer an incentive on it, then consumers will go look at Excursions, Expeditions, Sequoias, Land Cruisers, Range Rovers et al.
Selling a Sububan at a lower profit is better than not selling a Suburban at all. Not selling that Suburban can also mean reducing work force which is costly. GM, Ford, and DC's current UAW contracts require that furloughed workers still get paid IIRC 90% of their wages and benefits. Contracts with suppliers still need to be honored. Equipment has to be maintained whether it is producing 1 unit or 10 units. And so on...
Thanks. This snow was certainly enough to overwhelm just about anything. I was seeing 4X4's that were having problems.
My non-turbo did just fine, once I dug the driveway out. The roads were passable but not clear, however the car took them in its stride. Now if I could just keep the car blue for more than a couple days. ;-D
sorry boys 85 and sunny everyday...except when it's not.........then again a box of cherios will run you 6 bucks....... and a gallon of reg will be 2.20 (or more)
I really enjoy all of this conversation. My only problem is, I'm right in the middle of the road on it.
As some of you know, my family was in the car business (ergo: so was I) for many years. For the past few years I've been strictly a consumer. Because I get two new cars every two years, it seems I'm always researching so I do still know quite a bit about the business.
Maybe it's my moderateness/passiveness but I look at the whole "negotiations" issue as a "Do unto others..." scenario. I have no idea whether the dealership people I am dealing with are honest or dishonest. I do know who I feel comfortable with and I'm not afraid to go elsewhere if I'm not comfortable.
Back to negotiations. I think the largest factor in the "tone" of negotiations is putting yourself in the other guys shoes. Funny, it seems when the other person realizes that you are doing this, they seem to also do the same thing. To a large extent, I think the buyers are largly responsible for the tension. Very few salesmen are going to say from the start "this is what I'm going to offer [to sell it to you for] and thats my final offer or you can walk". Yet, we, as consumers, are going in there saying just that. Should they get defensive and tense? Who knows. Would the average person get defensive and tense? Yes.
Personally, I've never gone into any negotiations with my demands. I let them know my background and how much I've researched. I then let them make the offer. In the last three car deals I've made, two of those offers were within $200 of where I wanted to be. One was a bit above and I calmly talked him down. The other was lower than I expected. I knew, from research, that I was getting a good deal and we were both happy.
Do cupholders and other accessories make or break vehicle sales? A reporter with a daily newspaper is wondering if shoppers are testing these components for utility, durability, aesthetics, etc before deciding whether the attached vehicle is right for their needs. If this is one of your shopping criteria, please by respond with your comments to jfallon@edmunds.com by February 25. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon PR Director Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I'm not sure, I would doubt it, but the IRS wouldn't suprise me... its hard to claim a gain on something that severely depreciates in value within the first 5-7 years, especially the first few. If its a business, different story b/c you depreciate the asset over time, and you would have a difference between asset value and depreciation. Personal vehicle, I doubt it b/c most people would be claiming the loss on the vehicle.
If you sign the rebate over to the dealer, sometimes you can duck paying taxes on it.
Coach Lou:
Only if you sold the car for a profit, then you owe Capital Gains Tax. I.E. You bought a Hemi Cuda in 1997 for $50K, just sold it for $125K, you made a big profit.
You'll only pay sales tax if there is a capital gain, i.e. if you get a car cheap then sell it for more than you paid. Even then you could deduct what you spent fixing it up or preparing it for the sale.
You do pay sales tax for rebates, but not on dealer incentives (assuming the dealer gives that to you). So a car with a $500 dealer incentive will cost you less than one with a $500 rebate, since you don't pay sales tax on that $500 (5% or $25 in MD).
It may not seem like a big deal, but consider the Lincoln Blackwood has a $10,000 rebate, that's an extra $500 in sales tax in MD.
I think it's baloney. Auto manufacturers can inflate their sales figures, because the pre-rebate amount is counted for total sales. Rebates are hidden in the spread sheet so stock holders don't notice and think that sales went up, when in fact they didn't.
The goverment allows it because they sit back and collect more taxes! The consumer/stockholder gets screwed twice.
no states in the northeast allow a consumer rebate to be non-taxable....even if its assigned to the dealer....of course if it's dealer cash then there is no tax....
hey ive been spending some time in fla over the past few months...of course you were MIA..haha
Just wanted to say HI!! Glad to have you back!! Ya know you have to keep Terry in line, you know how those old folks are. BTW, what's this I hear about a lot full of old people cars??
Due to huge amounts of the use of the word, Houey, Trolling Trolls, and Car Salesman Angst, you're all in for a new Parody! As usual, the names have been changed to add to the humor quotient
Riverrunsthroughmyears: Car salesman are so dishonest, they would probably lie to you about sleeping with your wife. Then if they had a baby, you would have to name it Baby Hooey.
PlutoLouis: Actually, it's the customer who would sleep with the dealer's wife, happens all the time. The dealer has more to loose. 'cause of the holdback, and the CSI.
LordoftheRiverDance: You're lying. I can tell, because my carefully calibrated hooey meeter just goosed me. Ooh, post that again.
PlutoLouis: That's it, I'm Done, finished, No TALKY, That's the last you'll ever hear from me. Ever. No FoOLIN'!
Rivlet: That's too bad, because I really think the content of our discourse was adding to the cosmic edmunds conciousness. I'll still respond to you, Hooey Lover!
PlutoLouis: You can't respond to me, because I won't respond to you first! I'm still not talking to you.
Mackinaw: Had a lady come in, said, "Mack, how would you..." To be continued
Kramit__HOST: I would remind everyone here that the topic is "The New Beetle, and the women who love the men that actually love them" Let's stay on topic here, or you will be banned, with no possibility of parole. Also, I'd recommend reading the 223 part edmunds article on Customer/Dealer infidelities titled "Undercoating Under the Sheets". Chapter 72 "Mop 'n Glo to go" is especially instructive.
Brentsylvannia240DL: I'm Back, and I'm Mad as Heck! Had a customer sleep with my wife just yesterday. A buddy got pictures of the whole thing!
ISMellHondaTrollsHereSomewhere: "Brent, glad your back, but....THE TROLLS HAVE US, IT'S TOO LATE FOR US, SAVE YOURSELF!!! AAAAAARRRRRGGGHHH!!!!!
LargeCitrus: Doesn't anyone understand that everyone car salesman lies, but noone else in the rest of the world does?
PlutoLouis: Did I mention I'm not talking. Again!
Mackinaw: Then right before the second half... (To be finished at an undisclosed time in the not so distant future.)
very good and hilarious....good to break the sales versus customer tension!
now another question: how do auto auctions come into play for a car dealer, do they buy NEW cars at auctions or USED cars there and also do they sell some of their new/used cars there ?
perhaps cars they can't get rid of or hard to get cars they want.....do they go to the auctions?
Either stuff I can "steal" at one auction and re-sell elsewhere for more money, trade-ins, etc...
New cars? Only if they are "New and HOT". Anything that has a market value well in excess of MSRP will pop up at auctions.. H2s, T-Birds, SC430s, Beetle Convertibles, SL500s, SL55 AMGs, etc.. but it is the exception to the rule.
If I can find a good financial reason to live there it might be real soon....I've hit the weather wall...I can't take the winters anymore...I get tired of trying to run my boat on the frozen ct river.
Comments
2 so far this year ! (Big family...Both sides get
that killer GM employee discount ! )
BTW: I have yet to get one into Iselpotiacs
dealer yet ! I am trying dude!........geo
I watched as some guys "discounted" themselves right out of business.
by the way VW posted something like a 4 billion profit..it tells you somthing about how much the manufacturer makes off a car........the poor salesman might make a 100.00 bucks but the manu. probably makes 5,000.00
and my other argument is "how the heck does one get the money to buy a car?"
My question is.. "Why would one be Silly enough to buy a new car?"
ford makes a ton on the explorer..
to your question "why would anyone be silly enought to buy a new car" the same reason they put full length mirrors on the glass at the dealship, make sure you take a test drive, etc.....EGO!
certainly not to save money!
Hey Bubba, we've been busy while you were gone.. we've got a whole topic devoted to this question.
My answer is: Because there are 3-series bimmers, Toyota Tundras, Odysseys, and a bunch of other cars that are so dear in the used market that new warrants a close look.
The last six months have probably done a lot to tilt things back into he used direction. And note I'm not talking about Taurus and Buick Century.
I bought an '03 Sienna a few weeks back, and consider it a deal no worse that what I could have gotten a used one for. Incentives, 0%, changed option packages etc. can make a lot of difference.
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
That is strange. Why, if the Suburban is a good seller would there be such a large rebate? That makes no sense to me. Any GM guys with any input?
I do not care how much profit the store makes. I, as the buyer, am trying to figure out how much wiggle room the dealer has, just like rivertown alluded to.
Lets say the "actual" cost to the dealer was $10,000. Dealer A has the car for $14,000, Dealer B has the car for $13,000. I know from these advertised prices that there is at least $1,000 wiggle room somewhere. But without being in the dealers accounting office and knowing the actual cost, I am just shooting in the dark if I walk in and tell you I want to pay $9,000. Will the dealer sell me the car for $10,200? Maybe, maybe not. A lot of factors go into that. But I need to at least have some idea before I make an idiot of myself at the dealership. Thats where doing exhaustive research comes into play.
As far as value goes, let me give you an example from another product. I recently purchased a computer game that I had been interested in. It cost $39 at most retailers. I wasn't particuularly looking for it, but I was in a store that had it on promo for $9 as a loss leader, so I bought it. So is the better "value" getting the exact same product for $9 or $39? Which is a better use of my resources (money)? I knew the market (ie it cost $39 most places and maybe $35 online) and I knew a good deal when I saw it. Paying more than you have to for something does not increase its "value".
But...that's me.
Bill, welcome back !
Not a GM guy but here's my input anyway.
Bottom line is that GM needs to maintain sales in order to maintain cashflow and profitability.
The Suburban is popular and generates great profit per unit for GM. But if they didn't offer an incentive on it, then consumers will go look at Excursions, Expeditions, Sequoias, Land Cruisers, Range Rovers et al.
Selling a Sububan at a lower profit is better than not selling a Suburban at all. Not selling that Suburban can also mean reducing work force which is costly. GM, Ford, and DC's current UAW contracts require that furloughed workers still get paid IIRC 90% of their wages and benefits. Contracts with suppliers still need to be honored. Equipment has to be maintained whether it is producing 1 unit or 10 units. And so on...
My non-turbo did just fine, once I dug the driveway out. The roads were passable but not clear, however the car took them in its stride. Now if I could just keep the car blue for more than a couple days. ;-D
You like Nissans? :P
Love the Xterra and Frontier, too.
As some of you know, my family was in the car business (ergo: so was I) for many years. For the past few years I've been strictly a consumer. Because I get two new cars every two years, it seems I'm always researching so I do still know quite a bit about the business.
Maybe it's my moderateness/passiveness but I look at the whole "negotiations" issue as a "Do unto others..." scenario. I have no idea whether the dealership people I am dealing with are honest or dishonest. I do know who I feel comfortable with and I'm not afraid to go elsewhere if I'm not comfortable.
Back to negotiations. I think the largest factor in the "tone" of negotiations is putting yourself in the other guys shoes. Funny, it seems when the other person realizes that you are doing this, they seem to also do the same thing. To a large extent, I think the buyers are largly responsible for the tension. Very few salesmen are going to say from the start "this is what I'm going to offer [to sell it to you for] and thats my final offer or you can walk". Yet, we, as consumers, are going in there saying just that. Should they get defensive and tense? Who knows. Would the average person get defensive and tense? Yes.
Personally, I've never gone into any negotiations with my demands. I let them know my background and how much I've researched. I then let them make the offer. In the last three car deals I've made, two of those offers were within $200 of where I wanted to be. One was a bit above and I calmly talked him down. The other was lower than I expected. I knew, from research, that I was getting a good deal and we were both happy.
Enough for my ramblings. Just a point of view.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Do I pay taxes on $25,000 or $22,000?
I have been surfing the IRS site but couldn't figure it out. Essentially, is there tax due on the income resulting from the sale of the car?
- Lou
If you sign the rebate over to the dealer, sometimes you can duck paying taxes on it.
Coach Lou:
Only if you sold the car for a profit, then you owe Capital Gains Tax. I.E. You bought a Hemi Cuda in 1997 for $50K, just sold it for $125K, you made a big profit.
Selling an Asset that has depreciated? No.
Bill
sales tax on in New York ! Then deduct rebate,
etc...............
Bill: Welcome Back ! My parents are sittin' their
butts at our condo in Daytona Beach as I freeze and run the businesses and snowplow !.....geo
You do pay sales tax for rebates, but not on dealer incentives (assuming the dealer gives that to you). So a car with a $500 dealer incentive will cost you less than one with a $500 rebate, since you don't pay sales tax on that $500 (5% or $25 in MD).
It may not seem like a big deal, but consider the Lincoln Blackwood has a $10,000 rebate, that's an extra $500 in sales tax in MD.
I think it's baloney. Auto manufacturers can inflate their sales figures, because the pre-rebate amount is counted for total sales. Rebates are hidden in the spread sheet so stock holders don't notice and think that sales went up, when in fact they didn't.
The goverment allows it because they sit back and collect more taxes! The consumer/stockholder gets screwed twice.
-juice
Bill
hey ive been spending some time in fla over the past few months...of course you were MIA..haha
You coming back anytime soon??????
Riverrunsthroughmyears: Car salesman are so dishonest, they would probably lie to you about sleeping with your wife. Then if they had a baby, you would have to name it Baby Hooey.
PlutoLouis: Actually, it's the customer who would sleep with the dealer's wife, happens all the time. The dealer has more to loose. 'cause of the holdback, and the CSI.
LordoftheRiverDance: You're lying. I can tell, because my carefully calibrated hooey meeter just goosed me. Ooh, post that again.
PlutoLouis: That's it, I'm Done, finished, No TALKY, That's the last you'll ever hear from me. Ever. No FoOLIN'!
Rivlet: That's too bad, because I really think the content of our discourse was adding to the cosmic edmunds conciousness. I'll still respond to you, Hooey Lover!
PlutoLouis: You can't respond to me, because I won't respond to you first! I'm still not talking to you.
Mackinaw: Had a lady come in, said, "Mack, how would you..." To be continued
Kramit__HOST: I would remind everyone here that the topic is "The New Beetle, and the women who love the men that actually love them" Let's stay on topic here, or you will be banned, with no possibility of parole. Also, I'd recommend reading the 223 part edmunds article on Customer/Dealer infidelities titled "Undercoating Under the Sheets". Chapter 72 "Mop 'n Glo to go" is especially instructive.
Brentsylvannia240DL: I'm Back, and I'm Mad as Heck! Had a customer sleep with my wife just yesterday. A buddy got pictures of the whole thing!
ISMellHondaTrollsHereSomewhere: "Brent, glad your back, but....THE TROLLS HAVE US, IT'S TOO LATE FOR US, SAVE YOURSELF!!! AAAAAARRRRRGGGHHH!!!!!
LargeCitrus: Doesn't anyone understand that everyone car salesman lies, but noone else in the rest of the world does?
PlutoLouis: Did I mention I'm not talking. Again!
Mackinaw: Then right before the second half... (To be finished at an undisclosed time in the not so distant future.)
RRROOYYCCCEEEFANS: You all can go to your room!
Ah, that felt good!
now another question: how do auto auctions come into play for a car dealer, do they buy NEW cars at auctions or USED cars there and also do they sell some of their new/used cars there ?
perhaps cars they can't get rid of or hard to get cars they want.....do they go to the auctions?
Either stuff I can "steal" at one auction and re-sell elsewhere for more money, trade-ins, etc...
New cars? Only if they are "New and HOT". Anything that has a market value well in excess of MSRP will pop up at auctions.. H2s, T-Birds, SC430s, Beetle Convertibles, SL500s, SL55 AMGs, etc.. but it is the exception to the rule.
Bill
-juice