Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
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Spotting paintwork, however, would seem to be a requisite skill in used car sales. It doesn't really matter, though, if the customer knows cars or takes somebody with him who does or if, it sounds like, he can get the used car manager's ear.
I just have a serious issue with you blasting everyone around, telling us all the dealers are full of hooey, how you can't trust a car salesman, but you have no problem at all condoning someone lying about a wrecked trade.
So, I asked about the history. I was told the car's title was clean. I looked a little more...more similarities...So, I went back to my current ride, and pulled out some documents I had...old ins card that had the SAAB's VIN)...same car. I then asked the salesman, if the car had ever been in an accident, and he responed that the title was clean. I asked if the VIN was correct. He said of course it was.
I had already told him about by accident, and why I have respect for SAAB's...then I told him that I think the car was my former car. He goes inside...then the manager comes out, and tells me to leave the lot and never come back.
I forwarded all of the info to the local DA's office.
The person who buys it would probably be buying thier first SAAB.
Nicole
Question, though: if the car was totaled by your insurance company, wouldn't it then have a "salvaged" title?? I've seen this type of title referred to before and assumed this is exactly the situation it exists for. Anyone know more about this?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Example:
Selling Price $ 17,000 - Trade $ 7,000
"trade difference" = 10,000
Tax is calculated on the $10,000.
Hope that helps !!
So, a title washer would simply register the car in a non-branding state and the title's then clean?
I can see an insurance company doing that - yuck!
The title had to have been washed to sell for anything close to the cost of the repairs - drive train was wrecked and 3 of the 4 corners on both the bed and the cab were crunched.
So let me see if I understand this correctly...positive trade equity reduces the taxable amount and negative trade equity does NOT increase the taxable amount. In your above example, if the $7000 was negative equity, the taxable amount would just be the purchase price of the car, ie $17,000.
($17000 * 1.055%) + $7000 neg equity = tot vehicle cost
How'd I do?
Thanks.
A DMV will pull it up, even if you hafta back track, you can find the history. The sad thing is, there is still some Stupid dealers that think they can hide it .. especially the ones that run them at large auctions, once they are caught, it hit's Arb, that takes 3 minutes, then that amount of money is instantly taken from the sellers account and placed back into the buyers account .. the info is then dropped into the national computer - and 2 strikes, your OUT .. it's a quick and easy way to lose your license, and that doesn't even touch on what the manufacturer is going to do, or the lenders .. like Enron, it's like a bad dream.
Terry.
So:
purchase price of car = $17,000
trade-in value = $5,000
actual buyout of trade-in =$12,000
Negative equity = $7,000
[($17,000-$5,000)*tax]+$12,000 = out-the-door cost
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The Internet is filled with stories about people experiencing this problem with their cars, and there are examples of what CAN be done, if the owner is willing. However, there isn't much out there about honest-to-goodness success stories about getting this fixed at the manufacturers' expense.
Seems like their tactic is to just wear the owner down til they shut up and go away. Of course, the owner goes away--and buys another make of car, but that is another discussion altogether.
I'm asking because most of the paint on the roof of my 1996 Buick Regal just self destructed in the car wash. The car's in-service date is December 1996, so it is now six years and five months, just outside of GM's previous six year coverage for paint problems. This car is in excellent condition--not a beater, no rust, and never in an accident. If I hadn't seen the paint come off myself, I never would have believed it. The water just caught it, and BAM! the paint was all over the wall of the carwash.
If anyone can cite court cases, including the name of the court, date, and case number, that would be EXTREMELY helpful.
As you may have guessed, I don't intend to shut up and go away.....
Joe Wiggins
joewiggins55@yahoo.com
I will then explain to the shopper that since I haven't been with the car since it was built, I have no idea.
I'll then open the hood, look for VIN stickers and signs of previous damage. I'll open the doors, trunk etc.
I might say that the car *appears* to show no signs of collision damage. I will clearly state, again, that I really don't know. I don't!
Now, if the car is a trade I took in myself and the owner assured me there had been no accidents, I'll tell the what I was told.
And, there is a BIG difference between a car that has been **wrecked** and a car that has been involved in a minor fender bender.
Mionor or moderate damage that has been properly repaired does not make for a bad car!
If I get a picky customer who finds fault with a used car or who is cynical about it, I'll usually tell them..." Well, it looks like it's probably not the car for you...let's look at some others".
I actually tried to clean up the paint pieces in the car wash. As soon as it happened, I knew what it was because I have seen it on so many other cars. However, until it happened to me, I just thought "hey, that guy sure doesn't know how to take care of a car!"
Now I know that keeping your car clean and waxed, and not having an accident is NOT enough to prevent this from happening. The irony is that the paint still on the car looks like brand new! You could literally hold a newspaper up to the finish and read the story in the reflection. Of course, you have to read the story before THAT paint goes away, too!
I always say, "There is no way to ensure that this vehicle has never been in an accident. There is a way to ensure that it has never been in a SERIOUS car accident-totalled or "police reported" accident. We can look on the Car Fax".
I never guarantee anything. Accidents mean different things to different people. Most customers are talking about serious accidents, not small fender benders.
I'm glad I could be of assistance. Let me know if you have any other questions. Good luck with your new 6! I know you'll love it!
I have several questions on different issues that I think are relevant.
The first relates to the disclosure of accident damage on a used car. Someone mentioned a disclosure form from the dealr regarding previous damage. I would consider a certified car with this sort of form. Without one (if the dealer doesnt give you one), is it reasonable to request that the sales document state that the frame is not bent, and that the dealers mechanics have inspected the car and no damage is apparent, the vin stickers on the panels match etc? Or am I overdoing it?
Second question: I know there is a seperate Cars Direct forum, but a dealer opinion is relevent. I know dealers must cringe when a customer pulls out one of their pricing sheets. I also know its legit as my local Toyota dealer was upfront in telling me that they do the Cars Direct program. How do you counter the natural response from a dealer that CD is a piece of @#$%^?? Right now they are selling a premium line of cars at $5k below invoice, and I know no dealer will do it. Am I missing something?
Last question: If a dealer has a couple of slow selling cars on the lot (Crown Vic Sports) on their lot that have been sitting for 9 months or so, is it reasonable to try and get a lower price for one? (ie below invoice plus rebate). My perspective is that they have depreciated in value due to wear in a very tough winter..acid rain, tires that could be out of round, and a weak battery etc. I would think the dealer would want to get rid of them. Any ideas?
Sorry for the long winded questions. Thanks!
What brand are we talking about, Saab? And how do you know "no dealer will do it"? If no dealer really will do it, how can Cars Direct? Are they a dealer too?
Personally I don't see a problem with a CD price. If a customer prints out the web page, brings it to their dealer and says, "if you can meet this price on this exact car, I'll buy one right now" then I see little room for hassle. A dealer will say YES or NO. Simple.
The problems being when a shopper looks at Cars Direct and want to negotiate a lower price from there. Or they get a low price on a cheapo model (e.g. Accord DX) and want the same deal on the loaded top of the line model (e.g. Accord EX V6 w/Navi).
But there are a few caveats with using carsdirect. First remember that CD invoice price is not the true invoice price. They usually tack on a few hundred extra bucks for what they call regional ad fees. Next watch out for what they call “other local fees”. I have gotten 3 different answers to this question when I called to ask about it. One time I was told that included SET fee on Toyota’s, another time I was told it was related to some local tax issues, and another time I was told that it included the dealer doc fee (which can be upwards of $500).
I do not think that there is a problem with trying to beat a CD price. Go to the dealer and say “This is what I can get it for on CD, can you beat it?” If they say no, then move on. I was able to get a dealer to meet a CD price and then another to meet the CD including their doc fee. This saved me $400. There is no problem with asking, all the dealer can say is no.
In December, I was able to beat the Cars Direct quote for my zip code by $1.5-$2K simply by requesting net quotes from a bunch of dealer websites. No hassle, no haggle. Net quotes clustered high, middle, low with the high quotes being close to CD; and some quotes seemed to invite bargaining while others were pretty clearly the dealer's best price.
If it's a slow seller like a Civic SI, that's another story.
i leased a 2003 honda accord v6 coupe last october. now i am having a financial crisis and need to get rid of the debt. I owe $29,000 on the lease which I'm sure is more than the car is worth.
Help me !!!
Thanks
I don't agree that Cars Direct pricing is at, or even near, the low end of the market.
Example: Honda CR-V EX, 4WD, auto
Cars Direct: $23,060
MSRP (from Edmunds): $22,860
TMV: $21,897
net quote: $21,251
The very cool thing about net shopping is that the buyer can participate in a competitive market competitively - with minimal hassle and haggle.
SO yes, CD is not the low price leader by any means, but in many instances I have found that they are by far.
I think your net quote is without the automatic. The CRV is very popular and that price is around $1600 below sticker. Id be surprised if a dealer would need to sell it that cheap.
Now try this one....2003 camry XLE 4 cyl, remove the toyoguard and the rebate. The price I get is $900 below CD invoice price and about $300 below edmunds invoice price. That is about the rock bottom price. I had several dealers that could not even get close. One I worked with for a while finally met that price but wanted to charge a $399 doc fee on top of that. Finally one dealer, which ironically like you said, I dealt with completely on the net, met the CD price with their doc fee included. I also had contacted a Fl dealer. He was very aggressive, but was still not much lower than the dealer that had the lowest price.
I totally agree that market drives the price. Also I am not saying that CD has the lowest prices for every car. I am just stating what my experience has been. I also had a CD experience last year where there was a $2000 factory to dealer incentive that CD was only giving $1000 of. Local dealers had the car advertised $1000 less than CD. In that case the CD price looked very good because it was $1000 below invoice. But the true local market was $2000 below invoice. Any buyer should use CD as just one avenue to get and compare prices. It is just one tool of many. A buyer should use local ads, CD, net quotes, net boards, etc. to get an idea what the market is and go from there.
I went through this same thing just a few weeks ago when shopping for a trailblazer. I brought the CD price to a dealer and he insisted that I would NOT get the customer cash off of that price, that it was already included in the CD price and the deal he was offering was way better. Of course, I couldn't disprove him without going through the purchasing process with CD. Bought a Pilot instead, so I never did find out the real deal.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Buyers have to use some common sense. If you see ads for a car at $20,000 and you know the invoice price is $21,000, you better start looking on the net for some info on a rebate or dealer incentive. The dealer is not going to be giving cars away at a loss. And if you do find a $1000 factory to dealer incentive on that car, you can be assured that it is already included in the advertised price of $20,000. Come on people, this is not rocket science.
I do have to tell you...you are responsible for the terms of that lease.
I see CD as simply one more source on pricing data, another very good one being net quotes from dealers via dealers' websites.
Mass' point about ads is especially right on, I think - ads can tell you about incentives sooner than other sources sometimes.
Getting a read on the market for a particular car is the goal - so look at TMV, CD, ads, etc. With my shopping (I know others have had different experiences, this is simply mine), shopping via the net is a good way to find out what you can really buy the car for.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I agree, it's a good research tool to let you know "I shouldn't pay any MORE than this for this vehicle" but obviously it may not represent the best price under all circumstances.
CD was also able to locate the vehicle optioned the way I wanted and in the color I wanted within my timeframe, through their local dealer affiliate. Basically that's how CD works - they work with a dealer in your area and you pick up the car there. They may add on certain fees that the dealer has - doc fees and the like, but you can usually find that out if you start the purchase process. In my case, much to my delight, there were NO doc fees or other add-ons when going through CD and their local dealer affiliate, and that led to it being an equivalent deal to the other best price I got. Just vehicle price and tax. (Registration is handled completely separately here).
As much information that I read about cars either on the net or in my car mags, I have not read that. Am I missing something here?
Personally, I think the T-bird is a nice looking car. In my area, when they first were introduced, the dealers here had them marked up $10,000 over MSRP. Has the demand faded that much where they are going to stop production?
Thanks, Mark