Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

qbrozen · May 2003

any idea where i can get new pricing info? its gone from edmunds and gone from the isuzu site. how can i look this stuff up?

qbrozen · May 2003

In order to avoid such a big hit right now, I'd probably pick up an efficient beater car to run around in and keep the truck. Better to spend $1000 to $1500 and get another car altogether than take a multi-thousand dollar hit trying to dump a truck you just bought.

just a thought.

timadams · May 2003

Gasoline is nowhere near as expensive as the hit you will take trying to trade or sell a one month old vehicle. You've lost a bundle on depreciation, even with a Toyota. Selling it now would cost you thousands. How much fuel do you burn? Gasoline is cheap.

grandtotal · May 2003

Reading between the lines the problem is not only the cost of gas, it may also be the payments. I may be wrong but I doubt it because gas is typically only 10-20% of the cost of running a vehicle.

butchbr73 · May 2003

what were you expecting? How long of a highway drive did you go to measure the mpg's? full tank? You can't count city driving, 5 minutes on highway/5 minutes in city.... highway driving. sounds like you got yourself into a truck you can't afford. I don't think 1-2mpg's is going to make that much of a difference. 16mpg to 19mpg, you won't notice too much of a difference, a few bucks each tank... maybe $100-200 a year difference. thats nothing.

rivertown · May 2003

Even at $.15 a mile in fuel savings, that $1500 beater is gonna take over 10K to pay for itself.

I'd drive the truck, perhaps learning some lightfoot techniques, pay on it, and then trade when you're rightside up. With the Yoda, that's not all that far into future.

Get the gap ins, though, through your auto ins agent. You could get (un)lucky and have the thing totaled.

ateixeira · May 2003

Busy topic, I'm gone for a day and missed 55 posts.

Rob - yeah, no problem selling the 626. Had multiple callers, fortunately. Funny thing was I only advertised on my work's free bulletin board.

It was a 5 speed, too, you'd think it would be easier to sell an automatic. The Forester is also a 5 speed.

Anyway, don't matter, I'm not selling it any time soon. Our 2 kids are spill specialists, so what's the point of getting a shiny new car, only to beat it up?

-juice

qbrozen · May 2003

I do 10K miles in about 4-5 months, so that looks like a great way to save to me. But there is no way you'd save 15 cents a mile anyway. Even if you managed 10 more miles to the gallon, you're looking at saving about 2 1/2 cents per mile.

but, others are right, just buying the extra gas is way better than taking that hit on trade-in. I'm just all about owning more cars.

ateixeira · May 2003

Having two cars allows you to spread the mileage between them. If you have an older "beater", it's no longer really depreciating (cause it ain't worth much). That allows you to maintain the value of the newer truck. And you do have access to the new truck when you really need the space.

Plus they can serve different purposes, i.e. a 4WD/AWD and a roadster (my combo). They complement each other. Having a spare car means you can lend it to visitors, family, plus you always have a "loaner", LOL.

But in the big picture, gas is cheap, less than half your depreciation. Air up the tires to 33psi, drive smoothly while maintaining as much momentum as possible.

-juice

akangl · May 2003

Believe me, a Tundra can't be near as bad on gas as our truck. I think ours is averaging 10 mpg IF the planets all align perfectly. We actually thought about trading our 94 Chevy K2500, x-cab, 4x4, 7.4L V-8 for a Tundra, but are buying a 94 Chevy K3500 reg cab, 4x4, 6.5L TD instead and keeping the K2500 too. Plus we have our 01 Corolla.

I think in the month we didn't have a second car and were using the truck only we spent over $500 in gas, add that to the $300 payment on the truck and the $200 insurance payment......YEOWCH!!!

afty · May 2003

My dad averages ~17 mpg in his 2000 Tundra V8 in 90% highway driving. Those things really do suck down gas.

zueslewis · May 2003

averages 19-20, rated at 19-25 - don't get too down on yourself!!

And it's a 2.4 ltr engine!

bigorange30 · May 2003

Do the math an compare what you expect to save in mpg vs. what you expect to lose on the trade in. I promise you it will be much better to keep the truck. It will take 200K miles to make up the difference for the bath you take at the dealer on trade-in. Even if you sell to a private party, it will take at least 100K to make up the difference.

saber86 · May 2003

MPG? Since when v-8 provides high MPG?

saber86 · May 2003

thanks for the explanation. The colleague of mine at work actually signed the actual sales contract and not one of those pre pay/order kind of deal.

After a nice chat with the GM, they let him off for $300 for time and trouble. I guess i should have posted this on inconsiderate buyer forum instead.

akangl · May 2003

17 mpg is pretty darn good for a V-8. Like I said our 7.4L V8 Chevy averages 10 mpg, we get excited when, at rare times, it gets 12.5 mpg.

rivertown · May 2003

You were right, the fuel savings is on the order of 2.5 cents per mile.
Math freeze on my part.

Had a 5.0 'Stang I got 25 mpg with on the X-way. . . and considerably less playing on street, LOL.

qbrozen · May 2003

it would help us all if we knew how many miles a year you actually will be driving in this truck.

afty · May 2003

Hmm, I guess it's really not that bad. The Tundra's V8 is only 4.7L, so it's no wonder the 7.4L Chevy engine uses so much more gas. I'm used to 4-bangers and V6s, so that's why 17 mpg highway seems poor to me.

bretfraz · May 2003

Note the 4 words he used in caps: WAY OVER MY HEAD

The gas mileage think is called a smoke screen objection. We all know that's not really why he wants to dump it. He admits he's in over his head and a gallon of gas didn't create this problem for him.

Its now a used vehicle, one of over 45 million that will get sold in 2003. Manheim pegs the 2WD SR5's at about $17,500 and the 2WD Limiteds at $21,500 roughly. Call the finance company, get your payoff, and subtract from these numbers. You now have a rough idea of what it will take to get out of the truck.

Assume your truck gets 15mpg and a little beater will get 30mpg. Do some math based on how many miles per month you drive and how much gas costs in your area. I think you will find that financially you are better off keeping the truck for a year or two.

Of course, if you cannot afford the truck at all (I think this is what is really happening) you are in a world of hurt. I hope you find a financial solution soon. Good luck.

rroyce10 · May 2003

.... Whats the specs on this pup ..? 2Wd .. 4wd ..? ecab .. ya know, all the stuff.

Terry.

bigorange30 · May 2003

are also hard to reduce from where he is. $22K is not a high priced vehicle. If he trades it in, the $5K he will lose will have to be tacked on to the next car. So if he buys a $17K car, his payment is exactly the same as it was. He would have to go to an $11K car just to get a $100 reduction on the payment. I am assuming a 5 year loan. One option may be to get a loan for a longer term. My CU will give 84 months on a new car and it is new up to 10K miles within 1 MY. If he trades it in and buys used, the situation is even worse because backs won't give such a good rate or term on a used car. I think the key here is financing and he should try to hit that aspect of it on this truck.

bretfraz · May 2003

I dunno the rest. I was just going by what little he posted and threw out some rough numbers to make the point that he's better off keeping the truck.

akangl · May 2003

We have the 7.4L Chevy 3/4 ton and we have a 2001 Toyota Corolla that averages 38 mpg. We are also buying a 6.5L diesel Chevy truck that should get around 18 to 20 mpg. The 7.4L Chevy is basically for me to pull my horse trailer with a few times a year.

townha11 · May 2003

Thanks, Car_Man, for enlightening me on the question of discontinued models. I hope they keep it up until I return to the U.S. in the summer.

GBrozen, I found some of the 2002 Troopers listed at http://www.isuzudealers.com/ Hope it helps.

Cheers.

qbrozen · May 2003

yeah, found that in a search yesterday. Only a couple in Jersey, both "S" models, and both advertised only $3K off MSRP.

guess this is a job for actually visiting a dealer. My sister says she doesn't really like my mom's trooper, but for the right deal...

as a question for a dealer, what would you like to hear from a customer who is coming in to look at a vehicle that has $6K in dealer cash on it? I usually don't mention such things unless I get the story "that's the best we can do" and they still aren't even at invoice. Is that the right way to go? Or do you actually like a customer who tells you up front all that they know? I didn't know if that would be considered rude or not. Thanks.

zueslewis · May 2003

"I got the info on those killer incentives on these Troopers and I'm seriously considering one".

Not confrontational, allows them to deal with you fairly, not an uninformed consumer, either. I'd give away the store to someone who came in with an attitude like that.

lagitane · May 2003

Whew! Lots of feedback. Thanks to you all. First of all, Specs someone asked for: V-8 SR5 Tundra Access Cab TRD 4x2. Current miles: 950. MPG: communting 15; mpg on Hwy-16.6-highest so far on a 200 miles trip; mpg on grades/mountains 13-14 (not pulling or hauling anything) going EASY. This seems ridiculous to me. Gas prices in my part of AZ are 1.72 per gal. Should be dropping a little, but no more than a 10-12 cents likely from what the experts are saying. They gouge you out here due to the snowbirds and tourists.
Now, 'grandtotal' & 'bretfraz' were accurrate. The monthly payments are killing me also. I'm a counselor, a busy one. Now, I have to start running around on week-ends doing crisis calls @$115 a pop just to afford this thing. I did not do an impulse buy. Did my research. Never had anyone tell me gas mileage would be that poor. Never had a V-8 before, so no experience. Other trucks, always trucks, have been 4 bangers, mostly 4x4's. Wanted a bigger truck so that I could hall a small 5th wheel for traveling/camping. I love road trips. Now, I know this thing would suck gas like crazy towing, so that is out. Know there are lightweight fiberglass cab-over fully-equiped campers out there. Talked to this dude with one on a V-6 Taco a few weeks ago, but it knocked his mpg in the dirt.
The major idiotic thing I did (chalk it up to being under some heavy stress lately), was to make a major mistake on my budget before I did this. I miscalculated by about $235, so that means 'no vacations', no savings for retirement, no accessories for the truck, not alot of road trips, obviously, etc. Sucks. Tired of kicking myself, so just trying to get feedback on the most economical and sensible (for a change) thing to do. Just made a crazy, human error. I can manage the payments ($380 pr mo) if I'm careful, but with the gas and expected upkeep over 72 years of payments, I'm gonna be hurting status. Counselors don't make great money. I do better than most, but I am at the top of my salary grade. No place else to go except supervisory. Hate doing that, but it is an option down the road, not available now.
So, even buying a cheap beater is not feasible financially. I don't own a house; just rent one. Kids all grown. Single. No tax deductions. Could try to finance for 84 months, but then the interst rate would go higher. I had excellent credit, or I'd never have gotten this deal. Don't want to ruin it. (Oh, and by the way, I am not a He, but a She. If anyone says, "Figures", I'll kill you

bigorange30 · May 2003

you thought you had $235/month more than you really have. It will be worse if you trade this thing in now. I would either 1) stick it out with the payment you have for at least 2 years and then change or 2) refinance over 84 months but if you do you have to keep it for 84 months because you would probably be upside down if you go to trade before it is paid for. If you just have to get out now, sell it privately. It would be the only option but even that wouldn't be economical.

rivertown · May 2003

I went back and read your original post, and I come out where I did and where BO does. Gas savings just isn't gonna help you much, compared to the depreciation hit that you just can't get around.

If you just can't handle the costs of what you're doing now -
check your loan to see what your pay-off is.
compare that to what the truck's worth now.
if you have put a chunk of money down, you may not owe more than the truck's worth.
If that's the case, you can trade into smaller vehicle (gas savings, but small) with a smaller note (like a Suzuki sedan).
Overall, you're gonna have to go much smaller and cheaper to recoup the depreciation hit. Example - a good deal on a new Civic is gonna see you paying $300+/mo if you don't have a chunk to put down.

Were it me, I'd make do with the current Tundra, use the depreciation you've got to pay for in any case, take good care of the truck, and plan to trade in a year or two.

P.S. Your mpg should improve some as the truck gets broken in.

dbgindy · May 2003

I agree with river & BO (see it happens:-). What it looks like you are saying is that including gas, maintence & payments you are overpaying by $235 a month what you are comfortable with/can afford?
I understand your problem but unless you have a large chunk of money to pay down the loan with (which I'm assuming you don't) it seems like your best course of action is to hang on to it for at least 2 years and see what you can do at that point.

rivertown · May 2003

if does for you -

PU's retain value better than most other new vehicles and imports do best of all.

If you were in a domestic sedan with a 72 mo note, you might never be right side up.

squirreljam · May 2003

Hey gang - a couple days ago (currently #4398) I asked about how insider or supplier purchase programs work? I'd guess only the dealers out there can answer that. Any of you guys mind chiming in on this?

Thanks - Squirrel

steine13 · May 2003

Due to the miracle of user profiles, I just read what you posted today over on the Tundra group.

"Bought a V-6 Tundra last December. Didn't like it. [...] I was getting about 17 around town and a whopping 20-21 on the Fwy [...] Recently traded the V-6 on a V-8 TRD."

You may be female, but you certainly got some brass ones... You bought new twice in 6 months, and you want to trade AGAIN???

I agree with the idea of sitting tight. It's only gonna get worse if you trade again. Unless you REALLY think you could handle a '99 Prizm for the next 5 years and not even look at another vehicle...

If a $235/month error is making your budget tough, you got a problem that's three times larger... I know that whenever I *think* I should have $600 left at the end of every month, I'm just about squeaking by...

Repeat after me: "Gas is free in America". Compared to everywhere else in the world (Europe is ~$5/gal), and compared to all the other costs of driving, gas money isn't gonna make much difference. It just seems that way because it comes "on top" of everything else, so to speak.

But cheer up. If you're gonna play musical trucks, there is probably not a better vehicle out there than the Tundra... these things bring stupid money used.

I have a buddy with a new 2003 V8 SR5, and he gets 18.5 on the freeway... when he drives like a little old lady. So you should be able to squeeze another 1-2mpg out of your rig as it breaks in. May it age gracefully in your tender hands....

Opinionatedly yours,
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI

landru2 · May 2003

Manufacturers do indeed reimburse dealers at a fixed rate for doing supplier/employee deals. Speaking from a Ford point of view, on a Focus we will usually make more on one of these deals than on an average sale. We make a little more, the customer gets a great fixed price. So it's easy to see why we would be happy to see this deal happen. On the other hand, on a Mustang Mach 1 we would make considerably less on an employee deal. And we wouldn't even offer it on a supplier deal (which dealers have the option of doing).

The only trouble on these kinds of deals occurs when a real chiseler wants a cut of the money that Ford gives us for doing the deal. Ford does not look kindly on dealers that undercut their employee deals and will penalize dealers they find doing it. Of course, they don't like employees/suppliers who try to abuse the system either.

lagitane · May 2003

Yup, "musical trucks" is a good way to put it. Kind of what I did. Now, the V-6 was an impulse buy. Drove it a couple of times at a local dealer, but they deal from MSRP, not invoice. So, on on the night before New Years eve and feeling frisky, I went into a dealership in Tucson with in a sort holiday frame of mind, drove several trucks and signed for the V-6 Turd. I loved that smooth, Lexus-like ride. Had a '94, I4, 4x4 Toyo PU for 8 years (just sick of having my fillings fall out every time I drove it over bumps or washboard. Really stiff sucker to drive). I didn't think, just fell in love with the ride and power of that V-6. Then got it home, drove it up in the hills New Years day and hated it. The dash rattled, the windows rattled when open a bit. It was squirrely on those forest service roads, just not solid or stable at all. Knew I wouldn't be happy with it. I like to do some hiking & exploring & and I camp off of some pretty rough roads close to trail heads.//So I did my research and the V-8 just sounded more like what I needed. Knew I couldn't afford a V-8 4x4, so decided on Limited slip differential instead. I did my homework, talked to guys with the same truck; went out on Edmunds and Tundra solutions. Everything looked like only about 2 mpg difference. I figured that was no big deal. So just shopped around AZ for prices. Went to three dealers. Tempe Toyota gave me an excellent price for this beautiful, fully loaded truck (I mean power everything, TRD, Buckets, the works). Drove it around an empty, undeveloped dirt/gravel parking lot and over some speed bumps. Drove it on the fwy. Loved it. Put another down payment to cover the "upside down" money on the V-6 on a 0% credit card and drove away happy as Hell. The mileage didn't hit me until I hit Tucson for a pit stop (110 miles) and squirmed. Only 110 miles on a 1/4 tank. The V-6 got 130 on a 1/4 tank when it was brand spanking new. I was getting nervous at this point, but still OK. The big shocker came when I was doing my budget over 'cause it was messy; had so many arrows, cross throughs, sketchy revisions, etc. That is when I discovered that monumental (to me) $235 dollar error (plus a few other things I'd left out). That was my "savings" and fun/travel money for the month. Then when I took this puppy in the mountains, steep forest road grades, that was shock number 2. Sucked about 1/8 tank of gas in about 30 mins of driving, and in Low gear. I felt like driving it off the side of that mountain and saying "Chow baby".

So there you have it.

BTW, finally got a response from Tempe Toyota after I went over the dealer's head and talked to Customer Relations and his Mgr. I have an appt to go in on 5/27. Dealer says they can get me into a cheaper truck witn NO more money down and will try to get my payments down a bit. So, we'll see what they are up to. Know that I'm gonna loose money on this, but over 6 more years, it should balance out in gas and upkeep, I hope.

NO, I couldn't live with a Prizm, or a Civic, or any other roller skate car. (Yuk!) I love trucks. Won't drive anything else. If I can get a V-6 Pre-Runner, Auto, Extra cab, (TRD would be ideal, but that's really pushing my luck)with a little less payment and no more money, that will have to do. It will be a shock after driving this Tundra; big shock. I like the power and that big truck ride. But if they are willing to do such a deal, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'll keep what I got and find a way to survive.

Don't know much about V-6 Pre-Runners. Thoughts, experiences, from anyone are appreated???
Thanks to you all. Really been a big help. At least I know what some of my options are.

bigorange30 · May 2003

If you want the power, your gonna have to live with the low gas mileage unless you invent some new science we don't know about. Even these hybrids we have heard about will likely be less powerful. Anyone heard of a 300+ hp electric or fuel cell car coming out?

I am looking forward to seeing how this one comes out. I wish I had $10K/year to blow on musical cars. I would drive a different sports car every 6 months. You must make alot of money. Got any job openings there?

isellhondas · May 2003

Well, I run into people like you and I can never understand them either.

Personally, I think getting rid of that truck would be a very foolish thing to do. I could be wrong but I think you will quickly find fault with it's replacement.

I also think you are making a much bigger deal out of the gas mileage than it really is.

This post isn't meant to be a slam or to belittle you...not at all.

I just think that finding the **perfect** truck may end up being a very painful and expensive proposition.

akangl · May 2003

Musical cars/trucks/suvs/minivans, been there done that and can probably write a book on it. We always had an excuse as to why a certain vehicle wasn't good enough, bad gas mileage, no enough leg room, need 4wd, dont need 4wd, the list goes on. After 28 cars in 10 years I will never play that game again. We ended up filing bankruptcy, granted a lot of it was medical bills, but the musical cars didn't help. The amount of money lost, sigh, I don't even want to think about it. I think we could have paid cash for a fully loaded Cummins diesel and a mercedes suv with just the money lost and down payments we made.

Bottom line, unless you stop now you will keep finding fault with every vehicle and trading and trading, pretty soon you'll be $15k in the hole and getting a visit from repo man.

We now own a 94 Chevy K2500, a 94 Chevy K3500, a 85 Jeep Cherokee (hopefully leaving soon) and a 01 Toyota Corolla. We have equity in everything too.

squirreljam · May 2003

...I appreciate the insight on "special" purchases.

Sounds like Ford's pay to dealer for doing those gets thin in a higher line vehicle. Nissan/Inf.'s must be pretty good up through mid-level, since I've got a guy chasing me pretty good on a VPP purchase of a G35 sedan w/ handshaker...

Squirrel

masspector · May 2003

"Sounds like Ford's pay to dealer for doing those gets thin in a higher line vehicle."

You missed the point. That is not what landru is saying at all. I am not trying to put words in his mouth, but the point of his post is that on a bread and butter focus that they normally sell for $100 over invoice, he will gladly do the supplier deal and he will actually make a little more money due to the factory manoey involved. Now when you change the car to a Mach 1 that he normally sells for MSRP or more, he is not willing to take the pricing hit because the factory money will not be as much as the profit from selling the car so much above invoice. The amount he gets paid from the factory is a constant, it is how much profit on the normal sell he is willing to give up to make the deal.

landru2 · May 2003

Boiled down: Why would a dealer want to accept a 3% (or whatever) mark-up on a supplier deal when they have a line-up of people offering 7%?

lagitane · May 2003

Well, first of all, in response to 'bigorange 30' I didn't pay $10K in down payments over 2 trucks. The first one V-6, I traded my old 94 Toyo I4, 4x4 in on. The second one, the V-8 only cost me 2K more down cause I had only 4000 miles of the V-6 to trade. I got good deals on both trucks thanks to bad ecomomy and dealers not being able to move these big trucks fast enough. When I bought that V-8 in late April, it had been setting on the lot since early Dec. 2002. This is the greater Phoenix metro area I'm talkin' boys and girls.

I would have kept the V-6, but it didn't have the stability I needed on rough mountain roads I drive. Thing bounced and rattled all over the road. Otherwise, I loved the truck. On the city streets it was great, but I don't live in the city; only work in it. Week-ends, I'm up in the hills. I guess I was spoiled by my old 22RE,4x4. That little sucker was tough and it would go anywhere. See, the thing I was trying to do also in getting the V-8 was to get a big truck that offered some of the driving ability of my old 4x4 w/o actually getting a 4x4. Could not afford a Tundra V-8 4x4, or that would have been my first choice. Would have bought the V-6 4x4, but Toyota doesn't have an automatic in that particular truck, and I have a bad Rt shoulder that hurts me all the time so a stick is out. That is it in a nutshell. I'm not crazy, or frivolous. I don't make oodels of money. I just wasn't happy with the V-6. I am happy with the V-8, but got in over my head price wise. I could find a way to do the payments if the mpg were less, but I can't do those payments and that high mpg both, understand?? I commute to and from work (small rural town) 22 miles per day. On week-ends, I put on hard mountain miles (steep grades, hilly areas and rocks), or I do a 200 mile round trip to the nearest city (Tucson). The hilly mileage on this truck is what kills me, and the commuting. I used to use 1/4 tank in my old 4-banger in a week (got 400 miles on an 15.8 gal tank), so this 1/2 tank per week (26.4 gal tank) is a shock. The V-6 was a shock enough; this V-8 is a killer.

I had friends tell me their F150 Fords got 19 mpg. I even had a few dudes who drive 4x4, V-8 Tundras tell me they got 17-18 mpg on avg. The only really honest man I found, after I bought this thing, admitted he loved the Tundra V-8, but was only getting 14-15 mpg. That is about what I am averaging too; 14-15 mpg. On the Hwy, I can get 16. Ain't seen 17 mpg yet. Don't be so glib about this. The gas mileage sucks, period. No, it isn't the only problem, but it is one I can't do much about

And no, I wouldn't be happy with a Pre-Runner after owning this big beauty. Of course I wouldn't. But I would have a lifestyle more like the one I was used to before all of this happened when I had a little kick around money. Got none of that now. I'm not a hopeless malcontent. I just didn't really like the V-6, and didn't understand what I was getting into with the V-8.
It's as simple as that.

zueslewis · May 2003

getting out of hurts your wallet no matter what..

A real idea is to consign it if you want to sell it - selling it through the paper and telling someone the gas mileage sucks won't get you very far.

I know what you mean, though - I'm pretty happy with the performance of my PT Cruiser GT, but the mileage is awful - I thought a 4 cylinder turbo would do much better than averaging 19-20 mpg.

bigorange30 · May 2003

was ~$5K that you lost in depreciation on the trade in April and the ~$5K you will lose on the depreciation for this next trade in. If you trade-in with a dealer with that few miles, there is no way around it. They will only give you wholesale. Some here claim that it will not even be as much as KBB, NADA or Edmunds TMV will say. Look back at post #2539 where it was stated that some lose 50% of their value in the first year. Yikes!!! Your only going to get $11K for your trade-in? That would mean you will spend more than $20K on musical cars this year.

Don't dig yourself a bankruptcy hole you can't get out of. That is probably what Dr. Phil would say.

timadams · May 2003

No matter how you slice it, the gas mileage isn't that big a problem. If you drive 44 miles round-trip a day that amounts to 220 miles a week commuting. Even if you could get 10 miles per gallon more that would amount to only six gallons of gasoline a week for work. That adds up to, what, $40 a month or $480 per year.

I know, this doesn't address all of your other driving. But $480 a year doesn't come close to the depreciation hit you're taking by trading in vehicles so frequently. Go ahead and talk to your dealer, but I can't see what they will do for you. How about getting a second job for a few hours a week? You'd make a little money and have less time to burn up gasoline driving up and down mountains.

zueslewis · May 2003

they'd have to commute to the second job, negating some of the earnings......

butchbr73 · May 2003

let's say gas prices are expected to decrease.... you would then have to work less hours per week at the second job to cover the expense.

ah forget it. either way, the gas isn't the problem, the problem is they got in waaaaaaaayyyyyy over their head in a vehicle and are looking for excuses to get out. One would expect in the high teens when you purchase a V-8, especially a pickup. A mile-per-gallon here or there isn't going to break anyone, they just want to hide the real reason why they want to get rid of the vehicle.... its a dead issue here, if you can afford it, keep it. if it puts you too far in the hole on a monthly basis, you'll need to get a MUCH cheaper vehicle. Its nice to be able to afford nice vehicles, but we all have to live within our means.

phollie · May 2003

If you have a car that is upside down...should you still discuss trade after the purchase is negotiated? I'd think that if the trade is not reasonable, there's no reason to talk about buying a vehicle. I'd appreciate your expert opinions.

butchbr73 · May 2003

i wouldn't think it matters.... they are really 2 different transactions. your trade is worth a price, it is what it is... and the new car is worth a price. The prices of either car is virtually independent of each other. Now how good of a deal you get on the new vehicle, or how much the dealer wants to step up to the plate on the trade-in is a different ballgame.

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