Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

jocko9 · June 2003

add Mass to that list as he must be a government employee of some kind (local, state or federal) as he seems to think that government is the answer to everything.

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

Requiring background checks by banks for consumers who lease vehicles is a ridiculous idea and certainly does not do anything to eliminate the risk that lending institutions assume because of vicarious liability laws. Just because someone has a "clean background" without any past problems that appear in their check does not mean that they will not get into an accident in a leased vehicle, exposing their bank to a potential lawsuit. Next someone will say that banks should check everyone's reflexes and reaction times before leasing them a vehicle because people who have slow reactions are more likely to hurt someone in an accident. The only reason why lawyers and the people who they represent go after banks through vicarious liability lawsuits is because banks have deep pockets and they are allowed to.

Leases are actually just being replaced by balloon notes in NY, CT, and RI. Balloon notes are almost identical to leases in that they provide consumers with low monthly payments. With balloon notes the vehicle's owner's name is on the title, rather than the bank's. However, balloon notes do have disadvantages. They are taxed much more heavily than leases are in some states. Also, many consumers have taken the time to educate themselves on how leasing works and are comfortable negotiating leases. These consumers now have to learn how balloon notes work to prevent themselves from being taken advantage of.

Allowing banks to be sued because a consumer who is leasing a vehicle through them is in an accident is absurd and does nothing but waste taxpayers money by tying up the courts and line the pockets of the plaintiffs. The industry would be better off if the vicarious liability laws were altered to allow leasing to continue.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2003

By the way, please try to debate issues without personally attacking other members. Doing so is a violation of the Edmunds.com Town Hall Member Agreement. As much as you may disagree with another community member's opinion on a particular matter, it is entirely possible to have an intelligent debate on a subject without commenting on others' personality traits or fields of employment. Thanks.

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terria2880 · June 2003

I need to get as much money out of my car (my husband lost his job) the quickest way possible. I want to know if I should trade down with a dealer? I have a 99 Toyota Solara SLE, V6, 76k miles, loaded, new tires, exec cond. Zip is 80015.

jocko9 · June 2003

And quite frankly someone's field of employment certainly colors the way they see the world.

I simply speculated that the individual in question worked for a partcular entity. I have no first hand knowledge or insight as to his/her actual occupation.

How's that for covering myself in case of a lawsuit?

masspector · June 2003

Thank you car_man.

And jocko, just to throw a monkey wrench into your stereotyping, I work for both a govt entity and a private company.

perna-Won't it be kinda boring if everyone here all had the same opinion? Sounds kinda dull to me. How do you debate someone that agrees with everything that you say?

Other than this thread, have any posters on Edmunds thought of the idea that maybe, just maybe a poster was asking a question or seeking advice from another consumer poster? In "camry owners-What did you pay?" I would not expect mackabee to post his rock bottom cost on camrys for the world to see. Buying a car by its nature is advesarial. Unfortunately that spills over on these boards some. The dealers want to make the most profit, the buyers want to spend the least amount and not get taken by any games.

landru2 · June 2003

Congratulations on the new job. I seem to remember you saying that you didn't work for the gov't before. Maybe I'm mistaken.

dbgindy · June 2003

Jocko. Just as an FYI I worked in private industry for almost 15 years before going to work for the government 8 years ago. So watch judging a book by it's cover.:-)
As to folks like Mass,BO & river I may not agree with their opinions but they do have as much right to post as anyone. I just hate to see them swim upstream so much.:-0
Back on topic (see Car Man I'm working it back in:-). It goes back to my earlier post on personal responsibility and how much checking into a background is enough. As we've all seen the opinions vary wildly on that. That is why it goes back for most of us not to the deeper pockets of the leasing company but the actual person who was at fault, the driver.

rroyce10 · June 2003

... Well said .. this whole "liability" deal is based on one thing -- Money. Your money, my money, everyones money .. we need too start looking up the word "Responsibility" before any more psychotic laws are dropped.

Terry.

steine13 · June 2003

Steiner's Rule of the Internet:
"When Free Speech is cited to defend a Posting, It's Probably Worth Ignoring".
It's true almost every time, and it's yours to use for free!

This is not a slam on dbgindy; who wasn't talking about his own posts.

BTW, none of us have a RIGHT to post here; Edmunds' is private.
And if I stay this far off-topic, i may lose my posting privileges, so nite-nite!
-Mathias

dbgindy · June 2003

Great rule. :-) I was just trying to do what I thought was fair. Now if I leased that rule from you and used it irresponsibly would you be liable? :-)

rivertown · June 2003

Thanks for the shot at fairness.

mackabee · June 2003

I would be violating the Town Hall agreement if I did that. It would be considered as soliciting business.
: )
Mackabee

masspector · June 2003

I would look at it as information. if you just said "Well our store can sell a camryle for $15,000." You are not implying buying it from you. Edmunds may view it different. Did you see my post in internet buying? Thanks for all of your help.

landru-do not remember ever saying that I did not work for the govt, but I could be wrong. I have changed and added jobs since starting to post here. Over my employment lifetime I have worked for govt and private industry as well as time in the ARNG, if that is considered govt.

masspector · June 2003

Who's job is it to take care of the new cars when they arrive off of the car carrier? I assume that there is some process to verify vin numbers and order paperwork and options. And of course the work of physically moving them around and getting them ready to put on the lot. Just curious if this was more of an accounting function, a sales function, or a car porter job.

rroyce10 · June 2003

.... Question: whats an ARNG .. ?

      Isn't that something you drink at Christmas .?

       Usually, the dealers have a full time lot Mgr that knows were everything goes .. the paperwork comes in "about" 3/15 days before the transport truck, the transport drops the vehicles off and the lot Mgr checks the Vin #'s, checks for any scratches, dent's, dings, production blemishes, books/keys before the driver leaves .. then they go to the back lot, get scheduled for service PDI, then off to detail and then the lot Mgr changes and/or re - arranges the lot for the newer vehicles based on color, style, options, duplicates, stuff like that ..

                    Terry.

masspector · June 2003

thanks for the info, top notch as usual. So that is a full time job that only does what you said above? Is that person considered in the sales dept, or accounting?

ARNG stands for Army National Guard

rroyce10 · June 2003

..... I have Great regard for our military ..!

     ARNG .. eggnog, get it .. anyway it was funny at the time.

             Depending on the size of dealer .. usually the gentleman that does all the lot chores (which can be immense) has a detail crew, chases lot problems, brings the vehicles up - knows where it all is at and falls into the Sales Dept, but it can depend on the facility.

                    Terry.

raybear · June 2003

What program or service do you guys use for your used cars? I want to make some decent labels in addition to the buying guide.

Thanks in advance...

scottdude · June 2003

Hey car dealers... is the upcoming July 4th holiday your "end of month" for June sales? Just wondering if I might get a better deal that weekend, or on June 30th.

raybear · June 2003

Try this weekend, the 30th may be too late.

rroyce10 · June 2003

.... Most dealers are having their "Super duper, bigger than life, larger than large ~ Huuuge" tent sale, dealership picnic, Bouncy BoBo's larger than the Statue of Liberty sale right now .. most of the programs and incentives on most vehicles end on the 30th ...

So go eat some pancakes, some 3 day old hot dogs, drink some warm Cokes, get some balloons and go find yourself a great deal ...!

Terry :-)

audia8q · June 2003

Our current and largest incentives end on june 30th.

sonjaab · June 2003

One dealer near me prints out labels on their used cars from Edmunds with price, options, etc.
They then dicker from them.......

But try to get that price on your trade......

They have to make money too.....

(NOTE: NO flames intended to anyone here)

sonjaab · June 2003

You sell GM vehicles right ?

Have you seen any of those "Put a GM in your driveway" program coupons yet? They were to expire June 30th. They have been extended to Sept. 3. Maybe the other rebates too ?

GM just sent me 2 more of them by request.
I have given away 5 so far.
A few happy folks driving a Saab, TB, and 3 new pickups.

audia8q · June 2003

nah, no GM brands in our stable....

raybear · June 2003

I'm an intenet manager at a dealership, I know all about it. I was looking for advice on who's window stickers look best. I've used Kelly's in the past.

mackabee · June 2003

We print our own stickers for used cars. We have an outside source that comes in twice a week and takes photos of the car and prints a widow sticker with all the relative info on them. The pictures go up on our website.
: )
Mackabee

raybear · June 2003

I'm in the process of firing a similar outfit. I can take my own pictures, we have fairly light inventory.

jocko9 · June 2003

Where exactly did I suggest that anyone not have the right to post? I never stated that.

My point is that the area in which people work colors and influences their points of view regarding the workings of our economy. You disagree with that? If so, please explain why?

dbgindy · June 2003

You never did suggest anyone not have the right to post. I was just trying to make sure in what had looked liked a heated discussion that I may not agree with them but I think they have the right to voice their opinion. This was not directed at you at all. :-)
The only thing I was responding to you was painting with a wide brush (i. e. anyone who works for the Government is a liberal,anyone who is rich is a conservative). I feel that people total experiences inside & outside work over a lifetime color their experiences. Where they are currently working may or may not have anything to do with their opinions now.
Just my .02 worth.:-)

virgiesmom · June 2003

Purchased a new 2003 Merc Mountaineer end of April. Vehicle located across state and arrived with 400 miles. During walk-around, prior to paper signing, noticed 2 areas of paint imperfections on driver side rear quarter panel bumper wrap-around. dealership agreed they would get fixed. I said fine, will do next time I bring back. About 1 week later the wifey noticed 3 faint indentations in hood area above where the hood latch is located. This is hard to see unless angle and light just right and day of pick-up was cloudy and drizzle. Next trip to dealership discussed bumper fix and now the repair on the hood was shown to them and they agreed that this was "theirs" also. They scheduled the repair for about 4 weeks later. Now in process of being repaired at paint and body. Found out that they have pull the wrap-around rear bumper for painting and removed hood for repair and complete repaint.
What have I gotten myself into? I now have a new vehicle with 1650 miles with a rear bumper and hood re painted. The paint is a ceramic white "metallic". What should I look for upon return and what guarantees need to be written down?
Has the value been diminished? What about 5 years down the road on trade-in or private sell?
Please throw your comments and suggestions my way.
Thanks

isellhondas · June 2003

Well, some of these tiny little imperfections aren't worth fixing. If you have to tilt your head a certain way in just the right light or something, who cares?

Sometimes the touch up jobs will show up as the car ages.

Me...unless it's pretty noticable I woldn't mess with it.

robr2 · June 2003

To properly repaint something like a bumper cover, it should be pulled off the vehicle. This eliminates having to mask the vehicle or clean overspray and the possibility of the paint failing on the tape line of the painted part.

andrewsi · June 2003

In general, how close are the dealer trade in values to the estimates given by edmunds? I am curious which of the guides tends to be the most accurate.... It can't be the NADA, the estimates seem really high for trade in values.

virgiesmom · June 2003

Thanks Isell & Robr2....good inputs. They had to do something for the hood repair but on the rear bumper I would just assume they left alone now that I know what they have done. Haven't gotten vehicle back, but I need to insure all okay. Still concerned that my new Mountaineer has been drastically diminished. 6 months with 1600 miles!
What guarantee do I need to look for or demand?

stebu · June 2003

I've heard several of the pro's talk about the end-of-month car deals that can be had, given the right set of circumstances. I've always assumed this phenomenon only extends to the new car fleet. Am I correct, in assuming that a new dealer would have no particular incentive, other then the everyday norm, to push used car sales based on some end-of-whatever time period? What about a purely used dealer?

dsattler · June 2003

You ask "What have I gotten myself into?" It sounds like you've gotten yourself into a dealer who stands by his/her word and is doing things the right way, not the fastest, cheapest way. The imperfections you're talking about sound relatively small and, assuming the repaint is done correctly (sounds like it is) shouldn't diminish the value of your car in any way.

jeffmust2 · June 2003

in Rhode Island in October:

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030630/1142000718_1.html

Article indicates that Ford Leasing is pulling out of NY as of July 10th because of liabilities even though they lease about 45k vehicles a year; Rhode Island accounts for about 22-23k vehicles a year in Ford leases. And CT is next.

mirth · June 2003

Yeah, but are they really pulling out or just switching to balloon loans? I'm guessing the latter.

raybear · July 2003

Nothing came in to me yet, we've lost leasing in Connecticut as well.

kyfdx · July 2003

A question about Lexus CPO. I had a dealer last year tell me he could extend the CPO warranty from 3 years to 5 years by just paying extra ($500..if i recall). This wasn't an aftermarket add-on or a Lexus Gold warranty according to him. Just an option on the Lexus CPO program. The mileage stayed the same (100K total), but 5 years from CPO purchase date, instead of 3 years. Does this sound right?

Thanks,
kyfdx

mark156 · July 2003

Guys/Gals,

I just can't understand why a dealership will add "market adjustment" on every car they have. Every car can't be that desirable. I stopped at my local Honda, Toyota, Acura dealer and they had market adjustment on every car. I looked at the Pilot but the the MDX really would fit me better because I like a sunroof and both front seats to be completely electrically adjustable (the Pilot doesn't offer that). I was thinking I might trade my '02 ML500 in at the end of the year for an '04 model. I might consider the E500 wagon when they come in.

I told the Acura salesman that I can buy these cars in another state without a Market adjustment and he said if that made them lose a sale they would remove it for me. Does that make sense? Nothing is more of a turn off to see the dealer trying to overcharge a customer. If a car sells for list, that's OK, but to raise it beyond MSRP just bothers me. The place where I bought both of my Mercedes have never added to MSRP. Even the new SL500 is MSRP with no additions if you can get one from that dealer. The profit from paying MSRP is reasonable for a dealer in my opinion, but I'm the type of guy who likes things priced reasonablely for the buyer and seller ( I guess I wouldn't be good as a salesman, huh?)

When I had bought my new '99 Jeep in Dec. '98, the dealer in my city had a Market adjustment of $1,400 on every Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD..... I bought it in another town $3,500 off of MSRP and this out of town dealer also never puts "market adjustment" stickers on their vehicles.

Do you, as a dealer, find this a "good" way to increase profit. Do you get a lot of complaints about this practice?

Just curious.

As always, your information is very interesting to me. Mark156

crkeehn · July 2003

I regard Market Adjustment as a tactic that bottom feeders use to increase profits.

A year or so ago, when I was in the car market, I visited two dealerships that used market adjustment. The first was a Chrysler dealer that had the sticker on the PT Cruiser Classics only. I don't know that they were such desirable vehicles on their own right (although they come extremely well equipped for a base model) but I suspect that there was less of a profit margin built in to the price than with the upper trim levels. The Other dealer was a Hyundai dealership which not only had ADP but tarted the cars up with pin stripes and alloy wheels. Somehow I felt the dealership lost the spirit of what Hyundai was for.

Needless to say, My PT Cruisers came from a different dealership.

butchbr73 · July 2003

hey, you can always ask what you want... what you get is a different story.

jocko9 · July 2003

However, the fact that this particular dealership had "market adjustments" on all the new vehicles on the lot (at least according to the poster) was pretty telling. Demonstrates to me that they are fairly sleazy and do indeed prey upon the "bottom feeders" as crkeehn stated.

afk_x · July 2003

In todays world this does seem rather stupid to have on every car. Still these stickers actually are useful, and there have been deals we have lost because we didn't have them on our cars.

There are some cases where to bury the negative equity you actually would have to sell the car for more than sticker which in California is illegal unless you have a market adjustment sticker. Its illegal because the window lable constitutes an advertisement, and it is illegal to sell a vehicle for more than your advertised price.

In summery, why would you care about a stupid sticker on a car. You're an educated consumer, you know what a good price is already right? Just ignor the sticker and make an offer...

landru2 · July 2003

You consider the price on the required-by-law MSRP sticker to be laughable. Why would you care about a number on another sticker?

rivertown · July 2003

I take the ADM sticker as a nice bit of truth in advertising. Tells me on the front end the dealer and I aren't gonna get together on price.

I never before thought of the ADM sticker as a service, allowing the dealer to highball my trade. I've got good deal on a bridge for anybody who's caught on to the ADM-sticker-as-a-service thing.

mackabee · July 2003

Why wouldn't you get together on price? I remember back in the mid-80's when I was in the market for a mini van, I stopped at a Dodge dealer to check out the Caravan. It had a $3000.00 ADM sticker on it which when we got back from the test drive the salesperson says "Ignore that, we'll work from the factory sticker." before I left the sales manager came out and discounted another $2000.00 of the MSRP. This guys were desperate. I ended up buying another Toyota anyway, but it was a good learning experience.
: )
Mackabee

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