Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

akangl · November 2003

We whined and moaned about lack of snow.....I guess Mother Nature decided to shut us up. Figured she'd give us some -35 degree weather and then warm up and dump 2 feet of snow on us. Oh well, wouldn't be fun if they could actually *predict* the winters in Alaska.

One other annoying thing about having 3 vehicles in the yard, I will have to move the Chevy if we ever find someone to come plow our driveway. Its in the way.....heck, its always in the way, lol.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving too!! My mom went and bought all the food, sure way to get me to cook......sneaky, sneaky, lol.

metmdx · November 2003

Could you do all the readers of this board a favor and post this (insert your own adjective here) dealers name, so we know where NOT to shop for an MDX or any other Acura?
Thanks,
metmdx

metmdx · November 2003

Question for any Toyota affiliated people on the board. West coast (Carson Toyota) is advertising $1,500 rebate on leftover 4Runnerws (all styles).
Edmunds says only $750 mfg to dealer support avail. East coast (NY) Edmunds says only $400 mfg-dealer support avail. "Who's on first?"
Given that, what would be a reasonable price to offer for a leftover '03 LTD with MSRP of 38K in NY metro area?
tia,
metmdx

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi metmdx. As you have noticed, Toyota's incentives vary depending upon which one of its 12 regions you purchase your vehicle in. It definitely is providing $1,500 customer cash on the 2003 4Runner in its Los Angeles region. It appears however that you are in its New York region. If that is the case, in your area Toyota is providing $750 customer cash on 2003 Toyota 4Runner SR5 and Sport models that are equipped with the appearance package and on all Limited models. Interestingly enough, Toyota is even offering hidden incentives on the 2004 4Runners already in your area. In its New York region, Toyota has $500 Dealer Cash on the '04 4Runner. If you have any other questions about automakers' current incentives programs, stop by the "Rebates and Special APR's" discussion that appears here on the Smart Shoppers Message Board and I would be more than happy to help you out.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards

mackabee · November 2003

The vehicle comes with a 5 year/unlimited mileage Corrosion perforation warranty which covers repair or replacement of all sheet metal components of the vehicle that are perforated as a result of corrosion due to defects in materials or workmanship. This comes straight out of your warranty booklet. The description you gave of these "scratches" and what was done to correct them "applied solvent and buffed" sounds more like residue (dirt, grime, tar, etc.) that collects on the edge of the white plastic sheeting that's applied to the vehicle at the port of distribution prior to loading them on the car carriers. A good prep department will clean the vehicle throroughly and these "scratches' will disappear. I've seen many a vehicle with these so called scratches that when solvent in applied and rubbed on them they disappear. A real scratch will show the Excellite II which cause the "primer" to turn white and helps protect the metal from rusting until it can be fully repaired. It seems to me from your description of the problem these weren't scratches at all. I may be mistaken but in my experience they are not scratches if they came out by applying solvent on them. Hope this helps.
: )
Mackabee

vgvg · November 2003

My question concerns the X Plan. I have purchased 2 Tauras' and 1 Expedition over the last several years using this plan. The dealers will not negotiate on anything once the X Plan is brought up. They tell me what the purchase price is and that is it. I will be shopping for another new vehicle in the next few months and wonder if I am shorting myself in some way with this plan. Thank you.

landru2 · November 2003

X-Plan pricing is not negotiable. In order to be compensated by Ford, a dealer must show Ford's X-Plan price on all paperwork. To give an X-plan customer a better price would mean giving them something "under the table" and this is can get a dealer in serious trouble with Ford Motor Co.

While it may be possible to do better than X-plan it may turn out to be less than it seems because X-Plan does not allow the dealer to charge any kind of administration or documentation fee. So you may find a price $200 less than X-plan but the doc fee may be $299.

If it is very important to you to get that last $20 then don't mention X-Plan at all and grind away. If the ease of transaction is worth more than a few dollars, then use X-plan and enjoy the car knowing you still paid less than the vast majority of buyers.

jwm271 · November 2003

When my wife tried to buy a Mazda van thru their S-Plan, about same as X-Plan, Paul Miller Mazda in Lexington, Ky agreed to S-Plan pricing. When we went to dealer to complete the purchase there was a doc fee of $379.00. We told them they could not do that & they said "take it or leave it". We left it & went to Kings Mazda in Cin. Oh & paid $6.00 for the title fee.

bobst · November 2003

When they said "take it or leave it", you left it, and now you are happier. That is how car shopping should be.

Besides, you have the pride of owning a car that was purchased in the wonderful Buckeye State.

landru2 · November 2003

A dealer doing an X-Plan deal will not get reimbursed by Ford if a doc fee shows up anywhere on the paperwork (I assume Mazda's S-Plan would be the same). If you would've gotten to the point of completing all the paperwork you would've found that there wasn't an S-Plan document in sight. You did the right thing by moving on. Somebody that was really upset would probably send a note to Mazda informing them of what this dealer was doing.

jwm271 · November 2003

I was very upset & called the Ford Partner Program & also emailed them. They were sympathetic, but did nothing. I had printed the S-Plan rules & showed them to the sales manager. Besides the "take it or leave it" comment he also said, it's not negotiable, I charged my mother the same fee on her purchase". I know participation in the S-Plan is not required, but if they participate they should play by the rules.

landru2 · November 2003

How do you know?

What this dealer was doing was calling the deal S-Plan when it wasn't an S-Plan deal. This dealer is not participating in the S-Plan program. Unless they wrote down or printed something labelling your deal as S-Plan it becomes your word against theirs. Mazda can't force a dealer to give you a legit S-Plan deal so it's good that you left that store.

graphicguy · December 2003

I bought my last car from King's Mazda....good people to work with.

dtwleungnyc · December 2003

Do you by any chance know what the torque split is for the AWD Sienna? Is it 100% to the front wheels until slippage occurs, or 90 - 10 split, 80 - 20, or whatever? Thanks in advance.

deciding3 · December 2003

I bought a used car from a dealer sometime back. They told me they would change the title and send me necessary documents. However, according to them, before they could file it with the DPS/DMV, there was a fire at the dealership and the title got destroyed. Now, the dealer claims to be in court (as the car title was'nt apparently changed from the earlier party he bought it from) to get a new title issued.
Now, my registration sticker is expired and I want to get it renewed and get my title as its been several months since I paid the dealer for the car. I would appreciate it if you could advise me on what can I do. I paid the dealer by check, so I can prove I've paid him the money.
Thanks.

rroyce10 · December 2003

....... It's a free country, you can file anything you want .. but I'm sure the dealer has filed for a "lost" title record and will have yours as soon as the state tracks the history ..

In the meantime, they can give you another 30 day tag and that should give you both time, getting involved in a court case doesn't get anyone anywhere ..

Terry.

steine13 · December 2003

Lost, stolen, burned, my dog ate my title... it's all the same, and here in MI it's $28, don't ask me how I know, and if you go to the DMV with the previous owner, you get a tag right then and a new title in the mail a week later. No...Big...Deal.

"Now, my registration sticker is expired and I want to get it renewed and get my title as its been
several months since I paid the dealer for the car."

What??? MONTHS? Where can you get temp stickers that last months? First and foremost, have the dealer get you another temp tag so you can drive and have time to sort this mess out... but something is out of whack here. Months? No way...

And Terry's right, courts are the last resort; when would you like your case heard -- is April good for you? I don't think that's gonna work for you here.

-Mathias

mackabee · December 2003

I'll look it up for you tomorrow morning. I recall a number but don't remember right off the top of my head. I did the training modules back when the Sienna first came out.
: )
Mackabee

Kirstie_H · December 2003

A magazine reporter is hoping to interview folks who negotiated to buy a vehicle at the end of its lease. Please respond with your daytime contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com by Monday, December 15.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

thel · December 2003

For one of the stores he used to work for.....but I haven't seen him around for awhile. Anyone know what happened to Zues? Last I'd heard, it was sounding like he was having a rough year.

landru2 · December 2003

Hope all is well with him.

As one who has done countless newspaper ads, perhaps I can fill in the gaps for you. First of all there are three types of ads.

National ads - paid for by manufacturers and produced by ad agencies. These are the prettiest ads and never mention dealers, just the cars.

Regional ads - These ads are placed by regional associations of dealers, e.g. Northwest Ford dealers, etc. These are typically also produced by ad agencies and are partially funded by the dreaded ad fees that dealers pay on their invoices. These ads may list area dealerships or just refer to the area dealers in general.

Dealership ads are paid for by individual dealerships and typically do not involve any kind of ad agency. They are usually produced by the art department of the local paper in conjunction with input from the dealership managers. Ad fees do not contribute anything to individual dealership advertising. Once an ad layout has been designed by the newspaper I usually just phone or fax the information on vehicles, prices, programs, etc. that I want to advertise.

People usually have no clue how expensive local advertising is. To give you an idea, the store I work at sells 100-120 new and used vehicles per month (tiny compared to some of the U.S. mega-dealers). Our ad budget is approximately $50,000 per month. You can do the math to see how much that costs per vehicle sold.

thel · December 2003

I think that sufficiently answers that question.

How many papers do you run ads in? How many days a week do you run the ads? You're right $50,000 sounds like a huge amount ot sell only 100-120 units....

suvshopper4 · December 2003

I am shocked to learn your dealership spends, on average, $400 - $500 in ad dollars for each new or used unit sold. Shocked.

prodigalsun · December 2003

Landru's canadian, so that works out to about 25 cents per unit US.

Just kiddin', Landru!

jims63139 · December 2003

Waht do you think of Carmax. New one here in Mmephis, prices look kinda high, especially since they won't haggle....or will they??
Opinions, please.
Jim

rroyce10 · December 2003

......... Sorry, gotta ask ... $50,0 large ...? .. American money ..?

I spend $45, but thats on 5 stores, 7 flags and about 1,3 unit's a month ..

Terry :-}

landru2 · December 2003

American money? Why would we use American money? ;^)

Thank your lucky stars that you don't operate in markets that demand that kind of advertising exposure. Our store ranks 5th or 6th in advertising costs out of ten competing Ford stores.

akangl · December 2003

Wonder if you can help me out here, I have a really strange question.......

Ok, this customer of ours (firewood business) wants to buy our Chevy (remember its the problem child). He knows all about the truck, we've been 100% honest and the guy is a mechanic too. Ok, now the question.....

He wants to make payments on it, now I don't have a problem with it since I believe everyone can use a little extra help sometimes. However, what I don't know is how to go about wording a contract, I mean should I get a lawyer or is one I write up and notorized ok? What we are looking at is $1000/dn and $500/mo for 9 months....total price $5500 ($500 extra for carrying the note).

Also, since we are obviously not a bank, can we let him register the truck in his name with us as a leinholder, yet we retain the title? Oi, what have I gotten myself into???

Any suggestions welcome, I would like to help this guy out and rid ourselves of the Chevy. Thanks guys.

isellhondas · December 2003

Personally, I think you are asking for trouble.

Deals like this cause a lot of trouble and lost friendships.

No matter how honest you are about the truck's condition, if it breaks down, he is liable to stop making payments to you.

If you leave it in your name (big mistake)you could be held liable. It needs to be registered to him. Once this happens, if he decides to quit paying you it could be very difficult to collect.

All of this said....if you insist on going through with this plan, I would write a contract in clear terms. I would state several times that the truck is being sold strictly AS-IS with no warranties expressed or implied. I would also add late charges for late payments.

And, yes, I would have it notarized not that makes a big difference.

And, make a good natured pact...if it breaks, he is not to tell you about it nor are you ever to ask..." How's the Chevy truck doing?"

I'm also guessing the guy has bad credit and no way to finance it without you carrying the loan.

I don't mean to rain on your parade and I could be dead wrong. It could work well for both parties.

jeffmust2 · December 2003

You are asking for 10% simple finance fee for a 9-month loan. The buyer should be able to get that money elsewhere at 10% (or less) and make your deal clean so you can walk away and not worry for 9 months about payments coming your way on time.

No agreement, lawyer-aided or not, will make the payments come in.

I know you want to sell the truck but try to find another buyer - outlook is not good with this guy.

Been there, done that...never again.

akangl · December 2003

In some ways, but I know how it is to be down on your luck and need a vehicle but not be able to buy one.

I highly doubt I'll be able to get more than $3500 tops for the truck if I try to sell it cash outright, its just not a high demand truck.

So, thinking that way, the risk is almost worth it to get an extra $2k out of the thing. However, I am worried about being burned.

People have taken payments from us before. Heck the guy who we bought the truck from held it for a month on just our word that we would buy it, took it off the market and everything.

I'm pretty trusting, I really would like to give this guy a chance as long as we can protect ourselves and be able to repo the truck if need be. The guy is a mechanic, so I'm not too worried about the truck breaking down and him stopping payments, he can fix it. Judging from his other truck, a 1980's Dodge 2WD, he takes good care of his stuff. You guys do have good points though.

I'm going to check with a guy I know at a Buy here, pay here lot and see what he says, he's a millionare, so must be doing something right, lol.

driftracer · December 2003

it's easy enough to do. Go to whatever you Alaskans call DMV and transfer the title - there'll likely be a leinholder fee. That's also your ability to reposess the truck if need be, plus account for the ability for claims against the buyer.

Nothing ruins a good friendship like money, though. Considering your options on the truck, and the lack of interest, this may be your only route. Plus, you'll get the kind of money you were asking for the truck. If the guy doesn't pay, you pop the truck (legally) and you have whatever money he's put into the deal, plus a half-broken truck (just like what you have now!).

steine13 · December 2003

If you'd only get $3,5 otherwise, then the truck is only worth $3,5. Sell it to the guy for that, or for $4, and have him worry about coming up with the cash. There hasn't been a 3-month period, let alone 9 months, where you haven't told us about spending money to fix the silly thing.
I wouldn't give you $1k for it, personally, but that's a different story.
If you go through with your plan, I got $50 says you'll have the truck back, you'll have "gained" $1,500, you'll have lost a friend, and it'll take 4 months or less to get there.

Anybody wanna take me up on this, even money?

-Mathias

akangl · December 2003

Just a customer of ours, so far he's proved himself very trustworthy. We deliver his firewood, he pays us the following Saturday, has been real good about it. Granted its not a truck payment, but its showing that he can keep his word.

We have officially gone 5 weeks without spending any money on the truck. We have owned it for 6 months. The truck books for $8150, we want to get $5k out of it, a car lot offered $3200. The reason I say $3500 is because its a very low demand vehicle, reg cab, stick shift, diesel, very small market for it. In all the ads I've had out there, I've gotten one phone call which turned into nothing and then of course this guy asked if it was for sale.

I guess the way I'm seeing it is its worth a shot, I can always play repo man and get it back (thus the extra set of keys stays with me).

thel · December 2003

It sounds as if your mind may already be made up. I say go with your gut....then again, I'm a little less cynical than many people in the Smart Shopper board. If you trust the guy, go for it.

akangl · December 2003

Thanks, I try to trust people and I figure what goes around comes around.

Heck, I've bought 2 horses on payment plans, one was a $1500 horse, no problems, everything went great. The other was a $6000 show horse......I got $1500 into the payments and did a *voluntary surrender* and returned him to his owner. I figure a car is a lot less risky than a horse.

I think I'll probably give the guy a chance, he seems like he will keep his word.

steine13 · December 2003

it's the darned truck. If he doesn't have the money to plunk down $4k for it now, how the heck's he gonna make payments to you AND fix everything that will go wrong with it? If he can't fix it and you know it sits there, will you even WANT the payments?
If you take it back, will you feel OK taking his $1,500 when he's had the truck for 4 weeks, and it ran for maybe two?
That's where I see the problem, not so much the gentleman trying to stiff you.

I sold a car to a friend of mine in January, 93 hi-mile Corolla w/ cracked exh manifold...held my breath for two months on that thing, then I figured he'd gotten his $800 worth. Of course, now he's driven 30k and he's pretty happy...

Best thing that can happen, the truck miraculously makes it one year without major trouble. By then, you'll have enough of the money to be ok.

-m

akangl · December 2003

Well, there's my little ace in the hole......the guy is a diesel mechanic, he knows what the truck is. Heck, he's heard hubby complain about it enough over the past 6 months. He can fix whatever goes wrong with it, I'm not worried about that. I think we have gotten most everything fixed on it that's going to go wrong, that's his impression too.

However, I do agree that truck tends to be a booger when it wants to be, like when he got here today to look at it. It doesn't like the cold and didn't want to start, so he saw it at its worst and still wasn't afraid.

But yeah, I'm gonna be holding my breath that it makes it through the next year. At least he doesn't work his trucks like we do, so it won't be stressed.

driftracer · December 2003

or hiding facts - the guy knows the truck's history, and being a diesel mechanic, isn't scared of it.

Worse case is you take a down payment and the guy defaults because the truck doesn't run right (can't see that happening, though).

There's not many ways you'd be worse off considering the going rate would be $2500-3000.

Sell it for what you can and get paid however you can. If you can make an extra $2k, fantastic.

"The truck is only worth $3500"??

It books much stronger than that ans it's WORTH whatever someone wants to pay for it. Period.

stickguy · December 2003

plus, you gotta love a truck in Alaska that "doesn't like the cold".

jeffmust2 · December 2003

...what the new buyer will use the firewood for!

akangl · December 2003

Are too funny. The truck wasn't originally from Alaska, its an Idaho truck. Can't really blame it for not liking the cold. I hate cold weather.

Can't even have the woodstove going tonight because the stack is clogged, hubby needs to clean it. Why is it that firefighters are the worst at keeping chiminey and woodstove stacks clean???

Had the smoke detector go off at 4:45 am, not a welcome sound, woodstove was smoking in the house. Not sure what's worse, the Chevy or this 27 year old mobile home. Just a few more months until we can buy a new house.

dbgindy · December 2003

After reading all the posts about your situation. My .02 is to sell him the truck.
1) He knows it's problems and still wants to buy it.
2) You'll get far more from him ( if he makes all payments) then apparently anyone else.
3) If you have to repo it you just might get it back in better shape with him being a mechanic. :-)

Just make sure to get a good strong sales contract with everything spelled out to the nth degree and as drift says become the lienholder.

Good luck ( you deserve some).

Duncan

rroyce10 · December 2003

......... This is basically a "buy here ~ pay here" deal ..

          I know a few dealers that have these lot's and some do fine, some do less than fine .. what saves their butts is they get most of the $$ upfront and 1/2 months down the road is all profit, or not.!

          Your getting a ghee whiz down and payments of $500 a month for 9 months and your going to back this up with a "Surety agreement" ... it's winter up there, vehicles have a tendency to get a little hinky when it's 25/30 degree's outside, have you seen the video's from Boston, their jump starting 1 year old Mercedes up there .l.o.l..

            I dunno kid, if you were getting $2,5/$3,0 upfront than I might agree with you .. but getting a ghee whiz and holding my breath for the 1st of the month sounds a little crazy, especially for $500 a month ..

           What makes these type of deals go sideways, is that the "buy here" types have $*^@ for credit and once the vehicle starts breaking down, they lose ALL responsibility and they can just go down the street and buy something else, then your stuck "trying" to hook this dude ... I know your friends, but $$ makes Horrible enemies out of friends and relatives.

            If your "Hell bent" to do it .. then you need to construct the deal where he is giving you $125 a week or $250 every 2 weeks ....



                 The devils advocate,

                       Terry.

akangl · December 2003

Yeah, I agree, its a scary deal, but he's proved trust worthy thus far with any business dealings. However, I'm thinking about advertising the truck one last time to see if I can get any cold hard cash bites on it. If not, well, I'll give this guy a chance, heck, everybody deserves a chance.

I will probably structure it for $250/every 2 weeks. I know he wants the truck bad, he's so funny to be around, almost sheepish about it, I know he's a proud man and he hated to ask if we'd take payments.

I feel for the guy, he's been up here a year, drives a 1980's Dodge 2WD truck (that's the only vehicle they have) that the heater doesn't want to work in. I dunno, gonna take some more thought. Not sure I want to set myself up to have to play repo man.

isellhondas · December 2003

You are a kind person with a big heart and that's a good thing.

It sounds like this guy has no other resourses to call on such as a short term loan from a family member?

Can he get a loan from a secondary lender like a Beneficial Finance or something?

Probably not.

I suppose you will have to trust your judgement and hope for the best.

You certainly deserve some good luck.

mark156 · December 2003

Jolie, if he doesn't make the payments, then you will have a nice credit line of mechanic work for your Explorer and your hubby's new truck. It's like money in the bank!

Mark156

isellhondas · December 2003

I guess it bothers me that this guy is new to Alaska. I know from experience that a lot of people move to AK...The Last Frontier, and quickly discover it can be a tough, brutal place to live.

Jolie will just have to weigh all of this information and trust her instincts.

rroyce10 · December 2003

... **It's like money in the bank!** ..

I'm kinda slow, your going to have to explain that one too me ...

Terry.

akangl · December 2003

He's been here a year, but he's been up here before working.

The only thing that's bugging me is I know he's had a repo before, although he claims it wasn't his fault, he was in Alaska working sending his checks home to his wifey.....wifey wants a divorce and doesn't make the truck payments. Bingo......repo man is chasing him down.

My husband is a pretty good judge of character and he knows this guy better than me, he says no problem.

It'll be in the contract that the truck doesn't leave the state until its paid for, I don't want to have to chase that thing to Florida or something. Thankfully the guy only lives aboug 30 miles from us and I know where he works too. I'm not the person to piss off, I always get even.

Isell.....I try to give everyone a chance. I tried to help a guy I knew get a job, what'd he do, basically just blew it off. I was not too happy since I had told the "employer" that this guy was dependable. Was a good job too, good pay. Oh well, can't save them all.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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