Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
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Terry.
I think if you read it with the post I responded to, I think its a little more clear... the poster was asking the dealer is at invoice, which is supposedly $18,500, and asked how much more play they have. My comment was they probably have another $3/4k to play with in back of invoice... which implies invoice price - $3/4k. If you read it another way, I apologize I wasn't clear enough.
Back then, and I worked for an old dude who'd owned a dealership since 1936, it was common to make double what cost was - invoice was $750, they sold it for $1500.
I'd really like to have been in the car business then, or transfered the profit margins to today's market - can you imagine a $20,000 dealer profit on an Explorer and the salesman making 30% of that? Yeehaa!
Now. The dealer calls me on 12/4/03 and tells me that I need to open an account at the credit union that they established my finance with today! or the deal will void. So I leave work and run to the CU and when I get back I go to the mitsucars rebates and see that as of 12/3/03 they have increased the Customer Loyalty cash to customer rebate by two thousand dollars.
I feel like I was cheated out of this money.
Did the Dealer keep this cash as they didn't close my deal until 12/4/03?
What Can I do?
I am a loyal Mitsu owner, and I don't know that they will keep me any longer. I have placed calls with Mitsubishi, The dealer and anyone else that will listen. And I haven't heard anything.
I am not a Mitsu dealer so I can't tell you the specifics of the program, but if they came out with the incentive AFTER you took delivery, then your usually out of luck. Also, the MFG's never tell us ahead of time what upcoming incentives will be...
Of course, if the loyalty incentive was available in November when you took delivery and your dealer hid it from you...it's a different story.
I'm actually considering leasing, since it worked out very well for me last time. Can you fill me in on how a lease works with the VPP program?
But I think they closed that loan that day and took my addtional rebate.
Do you think Mitsubishi will help me?
nissan's lease also includes GAP insurance, and some dealers offer scheduled maintenance for free, but not very many.
As for driftracer,
You say you don't understand my question. Sorry I am long winded usually when I try to make a point. But anyways my question was is Edmunds trade in values usually acurate when trying to figure out what a dealer will give in actual cash value for any used car. I am not talking about mark up value I am talking about if I simply wanted to sell it to you off the street.
From what I understand dealers usually pay current auction market prices depending on the condition of the trade, dealer inventory, time of year ect..ect..
Am I correct? How I am reading into your answer is trade in value whether your using Edmunds, NADA, or Kelly really isn't a acurate figure rather a wholesale price would be more of an acurate figure. Am I way off here or am I beating around the bush? Thanks for your help guys!
These are GUIDES, and should be used accordingly.
These are just like when banks use these same GUIDES when deciding how much money to loan you - a certain car may have a certain value - right there in black and white - your credit history and job situation add or subtract to that amount. If there's more risk, they'll loan you less than what the books say, the opposite is true if you credit is great - you could easily get more than the books call for.
The same situation happens with cars at trade-in. Edmunds might say that your white Ford Taurus is worth $6,000. Of course, Edmunds can't see that you have scratched up paint and stained carpeting, and of course, you neglected to mention that when filling out the form...
Also, the fact that the Ford dealership currently has 4 white used Tauruses in stock plays heavily into what they'll put into yours.
Ok let's see, 4dr LX, auto, 19k with the silver paint, sounds nice .. it's worth in and around the low $9's on the trade side ... down Retail Rd, you can "ask" $11,5 and see what pans out, $10,9 "might" be a better asking figure if you don't hear that funny ringing sound from your phone, then take $10,5 and keep the ego parked ..
These are nice vehicles, but right now there is oodles of them, plus the "books" show prices that aren't even close to the Real World .. see it's a two edged sword, live by the books~die by the books, and since the books don't buy vehicles then they can flat kill ya, so you need a real deal buyer ..
>>I understand dealers usually pay current auction market prices depending on the condition of the trade, dealer inventory, time of year ect..ect..<< .....
*You understand right.!
Terry.
If you don't mind I have somemore questions. And If its ok with you I will post as I think of them.
But for now I have a question about extended warranties.
--I have read from mulitiple websites that warranties are a high mark up item for a dealer. Can warranties be negotiated successfully or would I be wasting my time? And if you was going to buy what would you offer to the dealer for a full bumper to bumper warranty on a Honda? I am being told this type of warranty will sell for anywhere inbetween 1800 - 2200 but if negotiated right I could bring this number down to 1400 - 1200 is this true? Thanks for all the great advice this website is truely awesome!
I was the F&I guy for a 4 line import store a few years back. On VW, I sold warranties on over 60% of my deals; on Isuzu and Suzuki, I was at about 30%. On Honda, I never broke 10%.
Why? Because Hondas don't break. It's very hard to convince someone who just gave their 175,000 mile, never had a problem with it, Accord to their daughter for college that they need to buy an extended warranty on their new car.
-- Another thing you always here that if you knew what factory to dealer incentives the dealer was getting from the factory then that could help you negotiate a better price sometimes below invoice. Now I know I won't get below invoice on no Honda probably won't even get invoice but still I would like to know what is the best way to find factory to dealer cash? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Edmunds claims to post this info but I only see it every now then on some makes and models. Is there a publication for the public or maybe a website I can view? Thanks!
Terry.
Also, I haven't been a Honda F&I guy for three years and didn't sell many then - I certainly don't have a current dealer cost book to tell you if that's a good deal. Understand? That's like having me tell you I want a blue car.
Blue? How many shades of blue can you think of?
Your best bet, if the F&I guy will do it (I did in this case), is to offer $300 over the cost of the warranty, and ask to see his book showing the cost of the plan. If not, don't do it.
Stand firm, and press on from there.
Honda dealer cash? Forget it - the only cars that need dealer cash are the ones that are hard to sell - it doesn't exist on Hondas - they practically sell themselves.
You haven't been reading here much, I don't think.
If the dealer requires an arbitration agreement and you don't sign one, you don't buy a car. That's the way it is at my store and every other one with an arb agreement.
Terry ;-)
As for an arbitration agreement according to the show there is no law that requires you to sign one in order to buy a new car. Also the guy upfront and asked the dealer when he was helping that girl if they required the customer to sign one. He told them the deal was off if this was the case. The dealer didn't make him sign one. So what your telling me is if I insisted on not signing yours you would cut the deal and so thank you but no thanks?
My dealer group policy, and I believe a VERY good one, is that an arb agreement gets signed on every car deal. Period.
I've only been asked about it once, and then, after the consumer read the agreement, they understood the language and signed it.
It isn't like you give up your rights, because you don't. I simply protects the dealer from stupid, made up lawsuits.
Terry summed it up - even NBC has an arb agreement with its employees - why would the show slam another business or businesses for doing exactly as it does?
And yes, I'd sign one - in fact, I'm buying a new Dodge Dakota R/T on Friday and I know the Dodge dealer uses an arb agreement.
I simply don't see what the fuss and debate is about - the consumer doesn't set aside a single right by signing the agreement. You simply agree to arbitrate a disagreement, if there is one.
In no way does a dealer have the upper hand here - it just levels the playing field.
The people who are really bothered by all this must, in my opinion, be the ones who bring up frivilous lawsuits against car dealers.
Your rights arent being taken away, there just there so when you do 14 hours of research on a vehicle, 5 demo's, negotiate your best price, agree on that price and the trade numbers, then you go home for a nice Christmas visit and your fat Uncle that hasn't bought a car in 10 years says: "hey, you got ripped off and you could have saved $5,000 and I know a guy, who knows a guy" .. thats what I'm talking about ......
Terry.
Note that Terry's right, they can't sell into Florida, some bizarre state regulation thing. The other 49 are fair game.
: )
Mack Attack
Oh, by the way .. Welcome back.!
Terry.
This is the point where I'm done having a friendly conversation with you.
I guess it never crossed your mind that CUs are nearly always lower than the regular banks that dealers use - the only way most lenders (dealer's lenders) can beat a CU rate is through manufacturer-incentivized rates, like where you get a rebate or a 1.9% rate.
There were many times as recent as 3 years ago, where a 3-4 point spread between the normal bank rate and normal CU rate was common.
I don't think anyone is trying to steal your money, and I'm no longer participating in a conversation with you, giving up my time, as long as you have this uneducated attitude.
Do you see what I mean, though?
You're not wanting to sign an arb agreement, but your ready to sue a dealer over a point of rate (that you don't even understand).
That's exactly what the arb agreement's in place for.
I didn't like the Dateline story. If a person is so naive that they don't know that a 10.49% interest rate is high, what can we do about it? It's not the dealers fault she didn't spend 10 minutes checking current interest rates.
If a person is also focused on the monthly payment (as the Dateline examples showed), and not the total cost, why is that the dealers fault? 48 months, 60 months, 72 months, we Americans can't think forward 5 minutes let alone 6 years.
People need to learn how to question everything, but questioning gets in the way of our impulsive purchase. We want things NOW NOW NOW. Questioning or researching doesn't get us into the car any quicker. With attitudes like that, we are buying with our emotions and not our heads. No wonder millions of people pay more than they need to.
I bought an Acura last week and they financed me with Honda at 3.69%. They matched my CU and gave me some on top of that. I don’t know if this is a common practice, but some Toyota stores also match. A year ago, a friend of mine purchased a Siena from cliffy’s store, and they matched Ft. Belvour’s CU rate. If you are an active duty military, you can get 3.99% from the Pentagon CU.
BTW, don’t mention CU or interest rates until after you agree on the purchase price. If they ask you how are you going to pay for the car, just tell them that you are going to finance it and don’t get into the details.
Duncan
With used, it's another story but in general, I can tell a good rate from a bad one without going through hoops to get it. So far, merely mentioning that I'll finance through the dealer unless I think I can do better elsewhere, has gotten me a good rate.
As a base point for comparison, I usually see what PeopleFirst.com is advertising for its rates. I have yet to have a dealer not beat them on a purchase.
; )
Mackabee
2) To stomp out flaming ducks
I have a real question: How does Carmax compare to trade-in values from a traditional dealer?
The reason I ask is that I've got to unload one of my cars. Either my baby (02 Miata LS) has to go, or my new yawn-mobile (04 Matrix XRS) has to be replaced by an old beater pickup or SUV / wagon. I'm waaay upside down on the Matrix so it would make sense to keep it from a financial stand point but really really love my Miata. But I digress, to unload quick and painless, I was considering selling to CArmax (150 miles away) or a local dealer since the Miata has been on the market for about 6 weeks with zero bites, phone calls or emails.
My Miata has a 6 speed, ABS, leather, etc., its Crystal Blue (sort of rare) with tan top / interior, quite striking I think. It has 24,000 miles or so and new tires. I've got it on Autotrader.com for $14,700 but no inquiries.
BTW, there's no way I'm leaving my car sitting around somewhere with a for sale sign in it waiting for the top to be slashed, windshield smashed, or other disasters from the worst parts of the Bible to happen to my car.
My experience is that they were about 20% higher than the trade values. On my desireable car
(2000 Accord EX V6 w/ 30K miles in Jan 2002), dealer offered me 14K. Carmax bought it for 16800. (They then advertised it for 19995).
I guess that would be the opposite of the vile "spring the trade at the last minute" tactic. I instead opted for the keep the trade at the last minute.