if its true about the $4500 rebate, they've probably got another $3/4k play back of invoice.
I think if you read it with the post I responded to, I think its a little more clear... the poster was asking the dealer is at invoice, which is supposedly $18,500, and asked how much more play they have. My comment was they probably have another $3/4k to play with in back of invoice... which implies invoice price - $3/4k. If you read it another way, I apologize I wasn't clear enough.
invoice, minus $4500, minus another $3-4K, and thought what, are we back in the '50-60s with these kind of dealer markups?
Back then, and I worked for an old dude who'd owned a dealership since 1936, it was common to make double what cost was - invoice was $750, they sold it for $1500.
I'd really like to have been in the car business then, or transfered the profit margins to today's market - can you imagine a $20,000 dealer profit on an Explorer and the salesman making 30% of that? Yeehaa!
I just purchased my third (3rd) that's right Mitsubishi on November 27th. Got a fair deal based on heavy research and smart shopping. I took advantage of the year end rebate and customer loyalty cash. After being told by the dealer that this was the absolute best time to by this car I was comfortable and drove off.
Now. The dealer calls me on 12/4/03 and tells me that I need to open an account at the credit union that they established my finance with today! or the deal will void. So I leave work and run to the CU and when I get back I go to the mitsucars rebates and see that as of 12/3/03 they have increased the Customer Loyalty cash to customer rebate by two thousand dollars.
I feel like I was cheated out of this money.
Did the Dealer keep this cash as they didn't close my deal until 12/4/03?
What Can I do?
I am a loyal Mitsu owner, and I don't know that they will keep me any longer. I have placed calls with Mitsubishi, The dealer and anyone else that will listen. And I haven't heard anything.
I don't understand the credit union thing...can you explain why the dealer wanted you to open an account?? Was the financing approval based on you having a checking account with direct withdrawl?
I am not a Mitsu dealer so I can't tell you the specifics of the program, but if they came out with the incentive AFTER you took delivery, then your usually out of luck. Also, the MFG's never tell us ahead of time what upcoming incentives will be...
Of course, if the loyalty incentive was available in November when you took delivery and your dealer hid it from you...it's a different story.
My mind isn't even close to made up yet. I like the both the Z and the G. I go back and forth between the two, usually depending on which one I saw last.
I'm actually considering leasing, since it worked out very well for me last time. Can you fill me in on how a lease works with the VPP program?
The credit union thing is that I got outside funding from a credi union that the dealer worked with. In order to close the deal the dealer needed me to open a Savings account with the credit union. I understand that, and was more then happy to do it. I just thought it was funny that after a week had passed they just then brought this detail to my attention. Also it was funny that the day they closed was a day after the addtional cash was available. I had signed a peice of paper that turned my rebates over to the dealer, and I don't have a copy of it. But I think they closed that loan that day and took my addtional rebate. Do you think Mitsubishi will help me?
Well my civic is a LX, 2001, Silver, 19000 miles, 4 Door, automatic, with no scratches. Its really in great condition. Sails down the highway just fine. I am not exaggerating either. Car is in really good shape from top to bottom. I hope that was your question . I will probably sell it private party. I am active duty Air Force and we have a lemon lot on base. Let me tell you with the attention this lot recieves you would think one of the big names owned it from down town. So I don't think I'll have a problem selling it.
As for driftracer,
You say you don't understand my question. Sorry I am long winded usually when I try to make a point. But anyways my question was is Edmunds trade in values usually acurate when trying to figure out what a dealer will give in actual cash value for any used car. I am not talking about mark up value I am talking about if I simply wanted to sell it to you off the street.
From what I understand dealers usually pay current auction market prices depending on the condition of the trade, dealer inventory, time of year ect..ect..
Am I correct? How I am reading into your answer is trade in value whether your using Edmunds, NADA, or Kelly really isn't a acurate figure rather a wholesale price would be more of an acurate figure. Am I way off here or am I beating around the bush? Thanks for your help guys!
be it Edmunds, NADA, Kelley, etc are ever going to be exactly spot on compared to what Joe Schmoe, the used car manager at XYZ Honda, Inc, will give you for your trade.
These are GUIDES, and should be used accordingly.
These are just like when banks use these same GUIDES when deciding how much money to loan you - a certain car may have a certain value - right there in black and white - your credit history and job situation add or subtract to that amount. If there's more risk, they'll loan you less than what the books say, the opposite is true if you credit is great - you could easily get more than the books call for.
The same situation happens with cars at trade-in. Edmunds might say that your white Ford Taurus is worth $6,000. Of course, Edmunds can't see that you have scratched up paint and stained carpeting, and of course, you neglected to mention that when filling out the form...
Also, the fact that the Ford dealership currently has 4 white used Tauruses in stock plays heavily into what they'll put into yours.
....... I usually do this over at "Real World trade-in values", but heh, it's Christmas ...
Ok let's see, 4dr LX, auto, 19k with the silver paint, sounds nice .. it's worth in and around the low $9's on the trade side ... down Retail Rd, you can "ask" $11,5 and see what pans out, $10,9 "might" be a better asking figure if you don't hear that funny ringing sound from your phone, then take $10,5 and keep the ego parked ..
These are nice vehicles, but right now there is oodles of them, plus the "books" show prices that aren't even close to the Real World .. see it's a two edged sword, live by the books~die by the books, and since the books don't buy vehicles then they can flat kill ya, so you need a real deal buyer ..
>>I understand dealers usually pay current auction market prices depending on the condition of the trade, dealer inventory, time of year ect..ect..<< .....
I appreciate the help! It makes perfect sense now why I am getting these numbers from area dealers. I always heard not to believe trade in values were set in stone. Now I have the education thanks to you guys now I know why this happens.
If you don't mind I have somemore questions. And If its ok with you I will post as I think of them.
But for now I have a question about extended warranties.
--I have read from mulitiple websites that warranties are a high mark up item for a dealer. Can warranties be negotiated successfully or would I be wasting my time? And if you was going to buy what would you offer to the dealer for a full bumper to bumper warranty on a Honda? I am being told this type of warranty will sell for anywhere inbetween 1800 - 2200 but if negotiated right I could bring this number down to 1400 - 1200 is this true? Thanks for all the great advice this website is truely awesome!
just like the car. If you buy one, stick to Honda Care - aftermarket warranties are way too risky - dealers will try to push you that way because they make more on aftermarket warranties because their cost factor is less (compared to same time/miles on a factory warranty).
I was the F&I guy for a 4 line import store a few years back. On VW, I sold warranties on over 60% of my deals; on Isuzu and Suzuki, I was at about 30%. On Honda, I never broke 10%.
Why? Because Hondas don't break. It's very hard to convince someone who just gave their 175,000 mile, never had a problem with it, Accord to their daughter for college that they need to buy an extended warranty on their new car.
Thanks for the info but do you think 1200-1400 would be a low offer for Honda Care? Or maybe is these numbers high? I need some advice on what to offer for this product.
-- Another thing you always here that if you knew what factory to dealer incentives the dealer was getting from the factory then that could help you negotiate a better price sometimes below invoice. Now I know I won't get below invoice on no Honda probably won't even get invoice but still I would like to know what is the best way to find factory to dealer cash? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Edmunds claims to post this info but I only see it every now then on some makes and models. Is there a publication for the public or maybe a website I can view? Thanks!
...... Warranties are a whole different gig .. depending on the state, "some" may be negotiable, in Florida they are considered insurance and there is no discounting .. Oklahoma, I have no idea.
You probably read by now that I saw the Dateline show sometime back. I know not all dealers pull these kind of tactics. I am not here to attack anyone either. My question is how do I spot a arbitration agreement? Does the paperwork say arbitration agreement in big letters? If I ask by law do they have to show me which form it is? How can I spot it so I DON'T sign one on accident?
there are about 25 different Honda Care plans for each model, depending on the mileage and time you're looking for.
Also, I haven't been a Honda F&I guy for three years and didn't sell many then - I certainly don't have a current dealer cost book to tell you if that's a good deal. Understand? That's like having me tell you I want a blue car.
Blue? How many shades of blue can you think of?
Your best bet, if the F&I guy will do it (I did in this case), is to offer $300 over the cost of the warranty, and ask to see his book showing the cost of the plan. If not, don't do it.
Stand firm, and press on from there.
Honda dealer cash? Forget it - the only cars that need dealer cash are the ones that are hard to sell - it doesn't exist on Hondas - they practically sell themselves.
it'll say that on the form. You said "How can I spot it so I DON'T sign one on accident?"
You haven't been reading here much, I don't think.
If the dealer requires an arbitration agreement and you don't sign one, you don't buy a car. That's the way it is at my store and every other one with an arb agreement.
....... Contrary to Dateline, I'm a firm believer in arbitration agreements and have had them for almost 2 years .. the funny part is, NBC has it for all their employees and contractors .. I guess whats good for the Gander is Not good for the goose ..?
Thanks for the great info about the warranties. As for Honda factory to dealer I highly doubt there is some to. My question was on any car is there a publication or website that exposes this kind of cash? Edmunds only shows it every now and then.
As for an arbitration agreement according to the show there is no law that requires you to sign one in order to buy a new car. Also the guy upfront and asked the dealer when he was helping that girl if they required the customer to sign one. He told them the deal was off if this was the case. The dealer didn't make him sign one. So what your telling me is if I insisted on not signing yours you would cut the deal and so thank you but no thanks?
Question for you. If you wasn't a dealer and you was going to buy a new car would you sign one giving up your rights in case the car or the deal flew south for the winter?
Are you having a hard time getting consumers to sign one now? Also, if you quit your job as a dealer and you was just a guy like me wanting to buy a new car would you sign one knowing what you know today?
I didn't see the show, nor do I read the National Enquirer - the same, in my book.
Terry summed it up - even NBC has an arb agreement with its employees - why would the show slam another business or businesses for doing exactly as it does?
And yes, I'd sign one - in fact, I'm buying a new Dodge Dakota R/T on Friday and I know the Dodge dealer uses an arb agreement.
I simply don't see what the fuss and debate is about - the consumer doesn't set aside a single right by signing the agreement. You simply agree to arbitrate a disagreement, if there is one.
In no way does a dealer have the upper hand here - it just levels the playing field.
The people who are really bothered by all this must, in my opinion, be the ones who bring up frivilous lawsuits against car dealers.
.... I sign Arb agreements everyday and so do millions of others .. Lasik surgery, boat dealers, Marinas, golf courses, lessons on a golf course, football games in the loge and the list goes on and on .. I was a little surprised that even became an issue, especially when we have folks suing Mcdonalds, gun manufacturers after suicides, etc, etc.com
Your rights arent being taken away, there just there so when you do 14 hours of research on a vehicle, 5 demo's, negotiate your best price, agree on that price and the trade numbers, then you go home for a nice Christmas visit and your fat Uncle that hasn't bought a car in 10 years says: "hey, you got ripped off and you could have saved $5,000 and I know a guy, who knows a guy" .. thats what I'm talking about ......
I will read it before I sign it. But for any reason I feel I am giving up any of my rights I won't sign it and I will close the deal. I am not out to attack a dealership with a frivilous lawsuit. The last time I bought a car the dealer tried to pack the interest rate on me. I had a credit score over 700 and hardly no bills. So I knew I could a great interest rate at my local credit union. Well to make long story shorter my credit union offered me 4.9% the dealer tried to offer me 8.5% if I didn't know any better I might of took the dealers offer. But I did my homework and pulled a credit report on myself so I knew I could get a great rate. My point is if this happens again I don't care if a judge throws my case out I will take the dealer to court for trying to steal my money! I wasn't a happy camper when I found out they was trying to pad the interest rate. I even closed the deal and bought from their competitor.
You can buy a Honda Care warranty from any Honda dealer (assuming your car is still under the original factory warranty), including out of state dealers. A bit of research on the Odyssey owners board here at Edmunds can help you find info on several dealers (you may have to go to a 3rd party Ody owners' board to find names, email me if you want to shortcut the hunt) that sell these warranties for ~$100 over cost. For a benchmark, $900 for a 7yr/100k (total, so 4yr/64k in addition to the factory warranty) $0 deductible warranty for the Ody.
Note that Terry's right, they can't sell into Florida, some bizarre state regulation thing. The other 49 are fair game.
Thanks for the info. Driftracer made a good point though. Honda's do last forever and now I am questioning myself on whether I really need one or not. I'm off to bed thanks for all the great advice everyone. Goodnight!
"I will take the dealer to court for trying to steal my money"
This is the point where I'm done having a friendly conversation with you.
I guess it never crossed your mind that CUs are nearly always lower than the regular banks that dealers use - the only way most lenders (dealer's lenders) can beat a CU rate is through manufacturer-incentivized rates, like where you get a rebate or a 1.9% rate.
There were many times as recent as 3 years ago, where a 3-4 point spread between the normal bank rate and normal CU rate was common.
I don't think anyone is trying to steal your money, and I'm no longer participating in a conversation with you, giving up my time, as long as you have this uneducated attitude.
Do you see what I mean, though?
You're not wanting to sign an arb agreement, but your ready to sue a dealer over a point of rate (that you don't even understand).
That's exactly what the arb agreement's in place for.
I don't have any problem with an arbitration agreement AS LONG AS the arbitrator comes from a legitimate service like the American Arbitration Association as opposed to some in-house place the local dealer uses
How can the dealer steal your money? Did they swipe your wallet? It sounds like you didn't go through with the deal, that's good. You were smart and thought about it. But I wouldn't go so far as to claim they were stealing your money.
I didn't like the Dateline story. If a person is so naive that they don't know that a 10.49% interest rate is high, what can we do about it? It's not the dealers fault she didn't spend 10 minutes checking current interest rates.
If a person is also focused on the monthly payment (as the Dateline examples showed), and not the total cost, why is that the dealers fault? 48 months, 60 months, 72 months, we Americans can't think forward 5 minutes let alone 6 years.
People need to learn how to question everything, but questioning gets in the way of our impulsive purchase. We want things NOW NOW NOW. Questioning or researching doesn't get us into the car any quicker. With attitudes like that, we are buying with our emotions and not our heads. No wonder millions of people pay more than they need to.
Airone don’t sweat the interest rates. Go to your CU and get pre-approved. Next, go online and calculate your monthly payments for the purchase price plus TTL. When you get into the F&I office, tell them upfront that you are pre-approved at this rate and ask them to match it. If they do it, fine, if they don’t, just go to your CU and get a check. You generally have five business days after the delivery to bring them a check.
I bought an Acura last week and they financed me with Honda at 3.69%. They matched my CU and gave me some on top of that. I don’t know if this is a common practice, but some Toyota stores also match. A year ago, a friend of mine purchased a Siena from cliffy’s store, and they matched Ft. Belvour’s CU rate. If you are an active duty military, you can get 3.99% from the Pentagon CU.
BTW, don’t mention CU or interest rates until after you agree on the purchase price. If they ask you how are you going to pay for the car, just tell them that you are going to finance it and don’t get into the details.
When I bought in April I got pre approved at my CU for a specific amount at a set rate. The dealership was able to beat my CU by a quarter point so I used their financing. I got a better rate and they probably got a little something for it. A true win-win.
Of course, the dealer usually has a special finance rate that I have qualified for. My wife's 04 Civic EX came with 1.9% financing and my Matrix came with 2.9%. I don't think any CU could've beaten that.
With used, it's another story but in general, I can tell a good rate from a bad one without going through hoops to get it. So far, merely mentioning that I'll finance through the dealer unless I think I can do better elsewhere, has gotten me a good rate.
As a base point for comparison, I usually see what PeopleFirst.com is advertising for its rates. I have yet to have a dealer not beat them on a purchase.
I have a real question: How does Carmax compare to trade-in values from a traditional dealer?
The reason I ask is that I've got to unload one of my cars. Either my baby (02 Miata LS) has to go, or my new yawn-mobile (04 Matrix XRS) has to be replaced by an old beater pickup or SUV / wagon. I'm waaay upside down on the Matrix so it would make sense to keep it from a financial stand point but really really love my Miata. But I digress, to unload quick and painless, I was considering selling to CArmax (150 miles away) or a local dealer since the Miata has been on the market for about 6 weeks with zero bites, phone calls or emails.
My Miata has a 6 speed, ABS, leather, etc., its Crystal Blue (sort of rare) with tan top / interior, quite striking I think. It has 24,000 miles or so and new tires. I've got it on Autotrader.com for $14,700 but no inquiries.
BTW, there's no way I'm leaving my car sitting around somewhere with a for sale sign in it waiting for the top to be slashed, windshield smashed, or other disasters from the worst parts of the Bible to happen to my car.
Not a car dealer, but I have sold two cars to CARMAX.
My experience is that they were about 20% higher than the trade values. On my desireable car (2000 Accord EX V6 w/ 30K miles in Jan 2002), dealer offered me 14K. Carmax bought it for 16800. (They then advertised it for 19995).
I was offered about $13,500 on trade for my Miata at the Toyota store. I couldn't part with it at the time so I declined at the last minute.
I guess that would be the opposite of the vile "spring the trade at the last minute" tactic. I instead opted for the keep the trade at the last minute.
Comments
Terry.
I think if you read it with the post I responded to, I think its a little more clear... the poster was asking the dealer is at invoice, which is supposedly $18,500, and asked how much more play they have. My comment was they probably have another $3/4k to play with in back of invoice... which implies invoice price - $3/4k. If you read it another way, I apologize I wasn't clear enough.
Back then, and I worked for an old dude who'd owned a dealership since 1936, it was common to make double what cost was - invoice was $750, they sold it for $1500.
I'd really like to have been in the car business then, or transfered the profit margins to today's market - can you imagine a $20,000 dealer profit on an Explorer and the salesman making 30% of that? Yeehaa!
Now. The dealer calls me on 12/4/03 and tells me that I need to open an account at the credit union that they established my finance with today! or the deal will void. So I leave work and run to the CU and when I get back I go to the mitsucars rebates and see that as of 12/3/03 they have increased the Customer Loyalty cash to customer rebate by two thousand dollars.
I feel like I was cheated out of this money.
Did the Dealer keep this cash as they didn't close my deal until 12/4/03?
What Can I do?
I am a loyal Mitsu owner, and I don't know that they will keep me any longer. I have placed calls with Mitsubishi, The dealer and anyone else that will listen. And I haven't heard anything.
I am not a Mitsu dealer so I can't tell you the specifics of the program, but if they came out with the incentive AFTER you took delivery, then your usually out of luck. Also, the MFG's never tell us ahead of time what upcoming incentives will be...
Of course, if the loyalty incentive was available in November when you took delivery and your dealer hid it from you...it's a different story.
I'm actually considering leasing, since it worked out very well for me last time. Can you fill me in on how a lease works with the VPP program?
But I think they closed that loan that day and took my addtional rebate.
Do you think Mitsubishi will help me?
nissan's lease also includes GAP insurance, and some dealers offer scheduled maintenance for free, but not very many.
As for driftracer,
You say you don't understand my question. Sorry I am long winded usually when I try to make a point. But anyways my question was is Edmunds trade in values usually acurate when trying to figure out what a dealer will give in actual cash value for any used car. I am not talking about mark up value I am talking about if I simply wanted to sell it to you off the street.
From what I understand dealers usually pay current auction market prices depending on the condition of the trade, dealer inventory, time of year ect..ect..
Am I correct? How I am reading into your answer is trade in value whether your using Edmunds, NADA, or Kelly really isn't a acurate figure rather a wholesale price would be more of an acurate figure. Am I way off here or am I beating around the bush? Thanks for your help guys!
These are GUIDES, and should be used accordingly.
These are just like when banks use these same GUIDES when deciding how much money to loan you - a certain car may have a certain value - right there in black and white - your credit history and job situation add or subtract to that amount. If there's more risk, they'll loan you less than what the books say, the opposite is true if you credit is great - you could easily get more than the books call for.
The same situation happens with cars at trade-in. Edmunds might say that your white Ford Taurus is worth $6,000. Of course, Edmunds can't see that you have scratched up paint and stained carpeting, and of course, you neglected to mention that when filling out the form...
Also, the fact that the Ford dealership currently has 4 white used Tauruses in stock plays heavily into what they'll put into yours.
Ok let's see, 4dr LX, auto, 19k with the silver paint, sounds nice .. it's worth in and around the low $9's on the trade side ... down Retail Rd, you can "ask" $11,5 and see what pans out, $10,9 "might" be a better asking figure if you don't hear that funny ringing sound from your phone, then take $10,5 and keep the ego parked ..
These are nice vehicles, but right now there is oodles of them, plus the "books" show prices that aren't even close to the Real World .. see it's a two edged sword, live by the books~die by the books, and since the books don't buy vehicles then they can flat kill ya, so you need a real deal buyer ..
>>I understand dealers usually pay current auction market prices depending on the condition of the trade, dealer inventory, time of year ect..ect..<< .....
*You understand right.!
Terry.
If you don't mind I have somemore questions. And If its ok with you I will post as I think of them.
But for now I have a question about extended warranties.
--I have read from mulitiple websites that warranties are a high mark up item for a dealer. Can warranties be negotiated successfully or would I be wasting my time? And if you was going to buy what would you offer to the dealer for a full bumper to bumper warranty on a Honda? I am being told this type of warranty will sell for anywhere inbetween 1800 - 2200 but if negotiated right I could bring this number down to 1400 - 1200 is this true? Thanks for all the great advice this website is truely awesome!
I was the F&I guy for a 4 line import store a few years back. On VW, I sold warranties on over 60% of my deals; on Isuzu and Suzuki, I was at about 30%. On Honda, I never broke 10%.
Why? Because Hondas don't break. It's very hard to convince someone who just gave their 175,000 mile, never had a problem with it, Accord to their daughter for college that they need to buy an extended warranty on their new car.
-- Another thing you always here that if you knew what factory to dealer incentives the dealer was getting from the factory then that could help you negotiate a better price sometimes below invoice. Now I know I won't get below invoice on no Honda probably won't even get invoice but still I would like to know what is the best way to find factory to dealer cash? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Edmunds claims to post this info but I only see it every now then on some makes and models. Is there a publication for the public or maybe a website I can view? Thanks!
Terry.
Also, I haven't been a Honda F&I guy for three years and didn't sell many then - I certainly don't have a current dealer cost book to tell you if that's a good deal. Understand? That's like having me tell you I want a blue car.
Blue? How many shades of blue can you think of?
Your best bet, if the F&I guy will do it (I did in this case), is to offer $300 over the cost of the warranty, and ask to see his book showing the cost of the plan. If not, don't do it.
Stand firm, and press on from there.
Honda dealer cash? Forget it - the only cars that need dealer cash are the ones that are hard to sell - it doesn't exist on Hondas - they practically sell themselves.
You haven't been reading here much, I don't think.
If the dealer requires an arbitration agreement and you don't sign one, you don't buy a car. That's the way it is at my store and every other one with an arb agreement.
Terry ;-)
As for an arbitration agreement according to the show there is no law that requires you to sign one in order to buy a new car. Also the guy upfront and asked the dealer when he was helping that girl if they required the customer to sign one. He told them the deal was off if this was the case. The dealer didn't make him sign one. So what your telling me is if I insisted on not signing yours you would cut the deal and so thank you but no thanks?
My dealer group policy, and I believe a VERY good one, is that an arb agreement gets signed on every car deal. Period.
I've only been asked about it once, and then, after the consumer read the agreement, they understood the language and signed it.
It isn't like you give up your rights, because you don't. I simply protects the dealer from stupid, made up lawsuits.
Terry summed it up - even NBC has an arb agreement with its employees - why would the show slam another business or businesses for doing exactly as it does?
And yes, I'd sign one - in fact, I'm buying a new Dodge Dakota R/T on Friday and I know the Dodge dealer uses an arb agreement.
I simply don't see what the fuss and debate is about - the consumer doesn't set aside a single right by signing the agreement. You simply agree to arbitrate a disagreement, if there is one.
In no way does a dealer have the upper hand here - it just levels the playing field.
The people who are really bothered by all this must, in my opinion, be the ones who bring up frivilous lawsuits against car dealers.
Your rights arent being taken away, there just there so when you do 14 hours of research on a vehicle, 5 demo's, negotiate your best price, agree on that price and the trade numbers, then you go home for a nice Christmas visit and your fat Uncle that hasn't bought a car in 10 years says: "hey, you got ripped off and you could have saved $5,000 and I know a guy, who knows a guy" .. thats what I'm talking about ......
Terry.
Note that Terry's right, they can't sell into Florida, some bizarre state regulation thing. The other 49 are fair game.
: )
Mack Attack
Oh, by the way .. Welcome back.!
Terry.
This is the point where I'm done having a friendly conversation with you.
I guess it never crossed your mind that CUs are nearly always lower than the regular banks that dealers use - the only way most lenders (dealer's lenders) can beat a CU rate is through manufacturer-incentivized rates, like where you get a rebate or a 1.9% rate.
There were many times as recent as 3 years ago, where a 3-4 point spread between the normal bank rate and normal CU rate was common.
I don't think anyone is trying to steal your money, and I'm no longer participating in a conversation with you, giving up my time, as long as you have this uneducated attitude.
Do you see what I mean, though?
You're not wanting to sign an arb agreement, but your ready to sue a dealer over a point of rate (that you don't even understand).
That's exactly what the arb agreement's in place for.
I didn't like the Dateline story. If a person is so naive that they don't know that a 10.49% interest rate is high, what can we do about it? It's not the dealers fault she didn't spend 10 minutes checking current interest rates.
If a person is also focused on the monthly payment (as the Dateline examples showed), and not the total cost, why is that the dealers fault? 48 months, 60 months, 72 months, we Americans can't think forward 5 minutes let alone 6 years.
People need to learn how to question everything, but questioning gets in the way of our impulsive purchase. We want things NOW NOW NOW. Questioning or researching doesn't get us into the car any quicker. With attitudes like that, we are buying with our emotions and not our heads. No wonder millions of people pay more than they need to.
I bought an Acura last week and they financed me with Honda at 3.69%. They matched my CU and gave me some on top of that. I don’t know if this is a common practice, but some Toyota stores also match. A year ago, a friend of mine purchased a Siena from cliffy’s store, and they matched Ft. Belvour’s CU rate. If you are an active duty military, you can get 3.99% from the Pentagon CU.
BTW, don’t mention CU or interest rates until after you agree on the purchase price. If they ask you how are you going to pay for the car, just tell them that you are going to finance it and don’t get into the details.
Duncan
With used, it's another story but in general, I can tell a good rate from a bad one without going through hoops to get it. So far, merely mentioning that I'll finance through the dealer unless I think I can do better elsewhere, has gotten me a good rate.
As a base point for comparison, I usually see what PeopleFirst.com is advertising for its rates. I have yet to have a dealer not beat them on a purchase.
; )
Mackabee
2) To stomp out flaming ducks
I have a real question: How does Carmax compare to trade-in values from a traditional dealer?
The reason I ask is that I've got to unload one of my cars. Either my baby (02 Miata LS) has to go, or my new yawn-mobile (04 Matrix XRS) has to be replaced by an old beater pickup or SUV / wagon. I'm waaay upside down on the Matrix so it would make sense to keep it from a financial stand point but really really love my Miata. But I digress, to unload quick and painless, I was considering selling to CArmax (150 miles away) or a local dealer since the Miata has been on the market for about 6 weeks with zero bites, phone calls or emails.
My Miata has a 6 speed, ABS, leather, etc., its Crystal Blue (sort of rare) with tan top / interior, quite striking I think. It has 24,000 miles or so and new tires. I've got it on Autotrader.com for $14,700 but no inquiries.
BTW, there's no way I'm leaving my car sitting around somewhere with a for sale sign in it waiting for the top to be slashed, windshield smashed, or other disasters from the worst parts of the Bible to happen to my car.
My experience is that they were about 20% higher than the trade values. On my desireable car
(2000 Accord EX V6 w/ 30K miles in Jan 2002), dealer offered me 14K. Carmax bought it for 16800. (They then advertised it for 19995).
I guess that would be the opposite of the vile "spring the trade at the last minute" tactic. I instead opted for the keep the trade at the last minute.