Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

bolivar · January 2004

The Ford XPlan is Employee Price (APlan) + 4% +$150.

The $150 was added early this year. The Ford site below says the XPlan price 'is usually less than invoice'.

You need to find your 'Partner Code', which for me is a 2digit alpha and 3digit number, like XX999.

Go to Ford online 'Partner' site. Plug your Partner Code in there, then go to their 'Search Inventory' site where you select the car model you are interested in. You should get to a place asking for your zip code. You will then get a screen where you can move between several dealerships for your zip code (if there are several dealerships there). And you will be able to see every car for your model in the dealers inventory, with both MSRP and 'XPlan' price.

This process will leave a 'cookie' on your computer so you can just go to the Search Inventory site, give zip code, and it will know you are an XPlan buyer, and continue to list the Xplan prices. The cookie will last for several months and expire, and Xplan prices will no longer show, only MSRP.

bowke28 · January 2004

the difference is that the other makes (volvo, land rover, jag, etc...) are not required to honor it on any vehicle. they can if they want to, but when there is generally only 1 volvo, jag, and land rover store per city, its tough to get it done.

jwm271 · January 2004

Same thing with Ford or Mercury or Mazda. Dealer participation is voluntary for all brands. The program itself does not have any exclusions,at least I could not find any, but dealers can choose to participate or not. It's also up to the dealer to exclude some vehicles.

rroyce10 · January 2004

...... All Ford plans are strictly up to each and every dealer .. it's their call.

Terry.

bowke28 · January 2004

but volvo, jag, and land rover can afford to say "no". they have only 1 dealer per city, except the largest cities. ford, mazda, and L/M cant afford to say no.

landru2 · January 2004

on Mustang Mach1's, T-birds, Lightnings, Cobras, and lately on '04 F-150's.

masspector · January 2004

So you two are agreeing with my previous post that dealers do not have to participate in x plan and can even limit to which models they will and won't do the x plan for? That is what I thought. Thanks

bowke28 · January 2004

i guess its because we have 90% a/x/z plan business that we cant afford to turn it down. we have 2 ford plants here, and almost everyone "knows someone". we also have 15 ford dealers for a metro area of about 750k people. HIGHLY competitive.

rroyce10 · January 2004

..... That's how it works, a dealer can refuse any plan at anytime .. some dealers up north will weed through them and some deals they make and some they don't ..

Mostly the problem is that the "AXZ" planners read through the different info books (Nada, Kbb, Edmunds, Better Homes and Garden) then pick the highest number for their trade and they Can't get together in price .. it's awful hard to put $14grand into a 01 25k Mercury Grand Marquis LS when the dealer can buy them at the auctions for $12 or less, especially when they are only making a few hundred anyway ...

Terry.

jeffmust2 · January 2004

...where will the Old Pros go? Wal-Mart?

http://www.fandimag.com/t_inside.cfm?action=news_pick&storyID- =5521

Now this could be a revoltin' development...

sadhan · January 2004

Hi All,
When I bought a Honda Odyssey recently, the dealer did a strange thing just after we settled on price and before I paid - he switched to another car (same model and options) - the reason he gave was that he wanted to give me a good battery (the one I test drove had a dead battery that they had to jump before the test drive) and lower miles (the switched car had 19 miles Vs. 47 on the one I test drove). I couldn't tell any difference so I ended up buying the new one. The new car seems ok so far, but I'm just a little worried about what the dealer's real motivation might have been.

Does anyone have an insider's opinion on what, if anything, might really have been going on?

brianw220 · January 2004

I think perhaps he wanted you to have a vehicle with a good, fresh battery and fewer miles.

driftracer · January 2004

had a good battery and a longer warranty, by a few miles.

isellhondas · January 2004

Try to do the right thing and people suspect something is amiss.

Hard to win sometimes...

stickguy · January 2004

Is it possible that they switched to an older unit (for floorplan/holdback reasons)? I seem to recall having heard that dealers preferred to move units that have been sitting around if they have a choice.

Either that, or they wanted the buyer to have a fresh battery. Regardless, it seems to be in the buyers favor.

bobst · January 2004

They went to buy a Volvo. Drove one and decided to buy it. After they signed the papers, they were told they had actually purchased one on the back lot, not the one they drove. So they took the car from the back lot and drove it home.

Soon the car developed a bad noise in the engine, but Volvo would not do anything about it. They said it was normal.

Does anyone understand why we don't trust car dealers?

thel · January 2004

That does sound fishy. Usually the dealers want you to buy the one you test drove if for no other reason that to avoud miling up the other cars on test drives.

isellhondas · January 2004

A lot of dealers keep a string of "demos". These are the most common cars. These get taken on the demo drives usually.

A lot of buyers want a "fresh" car unless they are buying a known former demo.

Even so, who's to say that any other volvo couldn't have developed a noise after a few miles.

What sounds fishy is this...The Volvo developed a "bad" noise in the engine and the dealer said it was normal? Doesn't sound right.

driftracer · January 2004

and this is very common, that the person noted an engine noise on a car they'd never owned before, and had nothing to compare it to.

I can't count the number of times people have brought back cars at 300 miles and they complain of this and that - usually because they haven't owned that particular model or haven't read their manual.

Also, last time I checked, there's a whole lot more than one Volvo dealer should you have a problem.

bobst · January 2004

It happened in north Florida in the late 60's to a young couple we knew. I never saw the car, but he said the noise sounded to him like piston slap. He said the Volve representative looked at the car and said there was nothing they were willing to do about it.

So why have I remembered the story after all these years? Because we always rebember the bad things. As Shakespeare said,

"The evil that men do lives after them. The good is often interred with their bones."

Except for that quote, I don't know much Shakespeare.

jeffmust2 · January 2004

I understand he sold MG-TDs.

bobst · January 2004

I used to own a 1968 Triumph 250. Horrible car. So why does my heart ache when I look at the web sites showing restored ones?

Is there a Shakespeare quote that covers irrational love?

brianw220 · January 2004

Shakespeare also wrote "me thinkst thou protest too much."

The fact that you even mentioned "why I remembered this for so long" could lead one to believe you may not remember the details the way you've recounted them.

However, if indeed you are able to remember details of a car transaction you heard about second hand to include the minute details of the nature of the mysterious noise that occured 35 years ago, then more power to you.

bobst · January 2004

Oh yeah, I can remember all kinds of details from 35 years ago, but I have a hard time remembering which day the garbage is picked up.

The more useful a piece of information is, the harder time I have remembering it. Did Shakespeare ever address this trait?

peeete · January 2004

Since the subject of English cars has come up, this is a good opening for my question.

I have a G35 that I bought in the good 'ol days before I got laid off. In my current career as a real estate broker it really doesnt work well for taking out customers. I need something larger but not huge.

I recently learned about the section 179 deduction. Im sure you are all familiar with it, so I wont bore you. Problem of course is the qualifying vehicles..expeditions, durangos etc are just too big for me. The Volvo is too much $$

So this leaves the Land Rover Discovery. I know from posts ive read elsewhere the isellhondas is probably snickering right about now

(no offense).

I know they are wierd and have service issues, but Ive driven one and I was surprised how nice it drove. Plus I can get my big fat [non-permissible content removed] in and out with relative ease..no ladders needed

My local dealers has several 2003 service loaners with about 4000 miles for sale at about $27K (S model). Since new they were around $34.5 it seems like a good deal. Is it btw?

So here's the question...I know service loaners can get beaten up in use, but with only 4K miles...is this an acceptable risk. LR covers everything for four years, and Ill probably sell it when the warranty ends. So is this really a stupid thing to do?

I think you guys perform a great service, and I keep up with reading this board almost every day. Despite the bickering that sometimes occurs, Ive learned a great deal.

A happy new year to all.

jeffmust2 · January 2004

still good in 2004? I thought that puppy got plugged by Congress.

peeete · January 2004

They tried to get rid of it last year and failed, but my accountant says its still a go.

manamal · January 2004

Happened to me the first time I went to buy a popular car. The car was a 1984 Honda Civic.

We drove the car, and liked it. But, at purchase time, we were sold a different car.
The thing is, we never testdrove that particular car, and did not realize that it had a stalling problem that they were unable to fix. If we had driven it, we would have bought a different civic.

The lesson is always drive the particular car you are going to buy. If they change cars on you, take the new one out (even if only around the block).

qbrozen · January 2004

I'm just going to make one suggestion. Ask the service manager to provide you with a service schedule with prices for the Disco. When shopping for the wife's vehicle, one look at that sent me running away very fast. Oh, and also look at prices for extended warranties on it. Yikes!!

I believe the Touareg also qualifies for the deduction.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2004

The Touareg definitely does qualify for the tax deduction. It just makes the weight limit. If I was in the market for a heavy vehicle that I could deduct, I personally would probably go with the Touareg. VW did a great job with it. Excellent suggestion, qbrozen. Interestingly enough, Porsche ended up selling a number of Cayenne Turbos to corporations and executives late last year because it qualifies for the deduction as well.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards

driftracer · January 2004

vehicle weight or GVWR, because the GVWR is what counts...

stevestein · January 2004

jlawrence01 · January 2004

The Porsche dealerships were advertising the Cayenne Turbos in the Cincinnati market throughout the end of December. I was somewhat surprised as you never hear much about them here in Chicago.

peeete · January 2004

It is GVWR. The minimum to qualify is 6,000 pounds. The X5 I believe is 6,001. How convenient

Briefly, the deduction applies to self employed people who use the vehicle for business purposes. You can dedduct up to 100% of the cost in ONE LUMP SUM. If you use the vehicle 50% of the time (the minimum requirement) you can deduct 50% at one time.

Ive seen Hummer ads that advertise the after tax cost, as they know the only way many people will buy one is for the deduction.

I havent seen the Land Rover service schedules, but I know they are VERY expensive to fix. THe labor rate is $95 an hour! I do have to check on the LR factory extended warranty cost before I buy, as I know many firms will not warrant them. I have to check the cost of insurance as well.

The Toureg and XC90 are great alternate choices which I would prefer. However, even demos cost $35K and up, which is more then I can afford. So if I can buy a Disco loaner with 4-5000 miles for $27 and still have 3.5 years of warranty, it might be worth the risk. Another 2K for an extended warranty would still bring me 6K under the cost of the others.

isellhondas · January 2004

The long established company we use for aftermarket warranties refuses to sell a policy on Land Rovers for ANY price!

That alone, should speak volumes.

jeffmust2 · January 2004

My nephew has purchased several, all used.

His first question is always "How much of the original warranty is left?"

If the answer isn't at least a year and 10k miles, he moves on to the next classified ad.

joatmon · January 2004

driftracer · January 2004

according to BMW's website, neither the 4.4i or 3.0i is over the magic 6,000 lb GVWR limit. Max allowable figures shown in kg:

BMW X5 3.0i - 2595kg (5,709 lbs)

BMW X5 4.4i - 2700kg (5,940 lbs)

Somehow, the government has done some neat homework into what it allows for a "commerical vehicle".

mackabee · January 2004

I wear a Kenneth Cole my son gave me for Christmas 3 years ago. I also have a Gucci my wife gave me for our 10th anniversary 15 years ago. Only wear that one on Sundays. I've owned a few Citizens and Seikos and a couple of Timex in my lifetime. No Rolex, I'd be afraid I get mugged for it.

: )
Mackabee

buster6 · January 2004

The deduction in on the "curb" weight (was told that is the weight when the car is loaded up--not sure if that is corect though), not the gross vehicle weight I believe. Peete, have you considered the Lexus Gx470, 7 agents in my office bought them in late December after they added more weight to them to make the vehicle qualify.

qbrozen · January 2004

If the Touareg is too expensive for him, the Lexus is downright unacceptable.

joatmon · January 2004

The door jamb on my '03 X5 shows GVWR 6005. The BMW web site gives the '04's GVWR as 2,725kg (6,008lbs). BTW, the deduction, actually Section 179 accelerated depreciation, is not based on curb weight, but on GVWR.

I don't think this is a loophole because Congress knew what they were doing and could have a different law if they wanted. It's having the intended consequence of creating more demand for vehicles, i.e. stimulating the economy.

Also, Section 179 allows for no more depreciation, just the ability to do it faster. You must also have enough profit to cover all the Section 179 deduction you elect to take.

This is NOT TAX ADVICE as I am not a CPA. I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Jack

driftracer · January 2004

"after they added more weight to them to make the vehicle qualify."

People are admitting on a national website that they fraudulently represented information to the IRS in order to cheat on their taxes.

That's great.

jlawrence01 · January 2004

>>Peete, have you considered the Lexus Gx470, 7 agents in my office bought them in late December after they added more weight to them to make the vehicle qualify. <<

Not if THEY was Lexus. Smart marketing ploy.

peeete · January 2004

True the Lexus is way out of my range. I wish you could add weight, then I could buy an Explorer and put concrete blocks in the rear to qualify

bowke28 · January 2004

a happy medium would be a crew cab pickup...i think (although i may be wrong) they qualify.

the nissan armada also is over the 6k #'s

tornado25 · January 2004

"a happy medium would be a crew cab pickup...i think (although i may be wrong) they qualify."

They do, AFAIK. In fact, I've checked into this as I may be soon given the responsibility of selecting the vehicle that would be my company vehicle. Most 1/2 trucks in general qaulify. (With curb weights of 4500-5000 or more, it's not hard to get the GVWR to 6000).

On a somewhat related note (w/ the understanding I am not soliciting tax advice) I've been discusssing with my future boss which way to go is better in terms of lease vs finance. Setting aside the accelerated depreciation issue for the moment, he claims leasing is better from a pure deduction standpoint than financing or straight purchase.

I'm confused here. Assuming the vehicle is 100% business use, isn't 100% of the payment deductible whether it's a lease or finance payment? So what more can I deduct than this (again, aside from the depreciation and the operation expenses)? None, that I can see. So, the difference must be in the depreciation deduction. Again, a leased or financed veh still depreciate the same (in the eyes of the IRS, anyway) and since the the lease payment IS the depreciation (more or less) wouldn't you actually be able to secure a larger total deduction (payments, op expenses, depreciation) if you finance than if you lease? Or would they be the same? (Assume for the argument, the payments for lease and finance are the same).

kyfdx · January 2004

Setting aside the special rules... If you lease, the whole payment is an expense and entirely deductible.. If you buy, your payment means nothing.. You have to depreciate the vehicle according to the IRS rules, and their are limits to how much you can deduct each year for a vehicle.

hope this helps,
kyfdx

bowke28 · January 2004

that is corect. the entire lease payment is deductible, including the usage/sales tax portion of it AND the money factor. if you finance or buy, then the depreciated amount is deductible only.

the lease deal deducts more for longer.

porknbeans · January 2004

My employer just took advantage of the tax deduction by replacing my company vehicle with a new Tahoe. Peete, If you have your heart set on the vehicle, good luck. But, I think you have also read about several other suggestions/alternatives that you may want to explore.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles