are BMW dealers really THAT desperate to move the new 7 series ;-)
A guy I know works for BMW Bank, and one of the perks is that they get a free or subvented lease on a Bimmer. At this guy's pay scale he gets to drive a 325 for free, or he can use that as credit for something nicer. He's told me that as soon as his current 3 lease is up he's getting a 745iL because they're offering a deal to employees that's too good for him to pass up. He also said they've been offered some great deals on Z4's.
Needless to say, he's a little worried, since usually they offer the best deals on older models they're having trouble moving. Not a good sign when they're giving employees brand new models.
In Northern Virginia where we live, I see a lot more BMWs than I used to.
If they are having trouble selling the high-end ones, maybe it is because those cars are mainly wanted by people who are enthisiasts for high-performance European cars, and there are only so many people like that.
Other people are happier to have a nice Lexus or a Mercedes, which I think has more of an image of prestige rather than pure performance.
We actually looked at a BMW lst year, but we thought the design of the dash, which is very important to me, was truly hideous. In fact, we looked at a lot of European cars at the Washington Auto Show last month, and I thought they all had terrible dash designs.
My ideal dash design? My old TR250. While you all are searching the internet for pictures of Janet Jackson, I look at websites that have pictures of beautiful TR250s and TR6s.
Here is my dilema. I have been waiting for my '04 LS430 for a while. I'm not too happy with any of the colors but we decided that the Moonlight Pearl looked ok (We were not able to see any other colors before hand and the Moonlight Pearl we did see was next to a White car so it looked quite a bit different.)
In any case, they found a Moonlight Pearl/Ecru, Ultra Lux, that is supposed to be here on the 28th of February (US) and to the dealership sometime the first week in March. Because I had to turn in my Cadillac STS (off lease) my salesperson told me that she would give me a car to drive since she felt bad it was taking so long.
When I got to the dealership last Saturday, she said that her Sales Manager wanted her to work up the deal and we could just do it all that day and trade cars when it came in. I had offered earlier to give her a $1,000 check for a deposit.
We were going to make the date the 28th of February (to get it in February, my Salesperson said.). I was a little leery but she told me not to worry because if there was a problem with the car it would not be a problem.
Then they told me they could get me a better rate than the 4.2% I had arranged through Capital One. Here is the problem though, they were going through a local credit union and they would not accept a date other than that date, February 14th. So we did all the paperwork and I gave them a check for $30,000 and financed the rest.
Fast foreward to Thursday. We saw an actual Moonlight Pearl on the street (not by any white cars) and we hated it. It looked like that ugly pearlescent white of those 90's Cadillacs. So I called my salesperson on Friday and told her I wanted to unwind the deal (I did not realize they had already deposited my deposit check because it had just cleared that morning.) and then we needed to actually take a look at all of the colors and figure out where to go from there. She said "No problem" and we went in this morning.
When I got there she took me in the office with the Finance guy and he told that since it had already funded the car was mine and we would just put in a substitution when we found the one we wanted. Essentially he was putting the finance company at risk because they were using that car as colateral but that car will have been traded/sold to someone else and who knows how long it will take to get the car we want. He was NOT accomodating and NOT acting like anyone who works for Lexus.
My salesperson though, since it was her Sales Manager and her that did the deal talked to the Sales Manager. He said that he is going to call the Bank on Monday and tell them they need to unwind the deal because the car is unacceptable.
First off: Do I have any rights since I never have seen or taken possession of the car?
Second: Is this a matter of good-will that they are unwinding it or just the way it should be.
I am going to get an LS430 because we love the car. Right now I just don't know what color as none of them do much for me.
The finance manager had no reason to be happy - he just had commission money taken out of his wallet by cancelling a deal that was already paid by the credit union who bought the loan. That's his problem, though; he shouldn't have finalized a contract without a car and a delivery - he actually "pre-spotted" the sale.
As for your 2 questions...
1 - What rights are you looking for? Seems as though they are unwinding the contract for the Moonlight car, but they still have your money (30 big bills!!), so until they return that, you are still "locked in" so to speak.
2 - It sounds like they have no intention of returning your money and just want to get you in an LS that they deliver to you. A full unwind means they have to return the 30K and have otherwise invested a lot of time and effort with nothing to show for it. In other words, they want their revenue on this deal.
Since you have no idea which color you really want now, you've got yourself and the dealer in a bad spot. You are driving their loaner and have no car of your own, plus they have your money. They had a funded deal on the table that they now have to partially unwind, and have to wait until you decide on a color - THEN they have to try to find it.
I realize you said you are "going to get an LS430 because we love the car", but if none of the colors appeal to you, you'll never be happy. Strongly consider another car.
Tread lightly. In a legal sense, unless you drive the car off the lot, there's no deal. This is definitely true in MI, and probably where you live, too. But they've been awfully nice to you, up to this point anyway, providing you a loaner and all that, so I think you'd do well to play nice with them.
The whole scheme sounds pretty harebrained; doing a spot delivery is ok, but without the car??? Reminds me of an old Yiddish joke on how telegraphy works: It's just like a really long Dachshund; you pinch it's tail in New York, and the snout barks in Chicago. How does wireless telegraphy work? Exactly the same, but without the dachshund. I'd rather not be in the finance guy's shoes at this point.
May I suggest an LS430 in silver? Nice, inoffensive color... Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.. this one should be interesting.
A few years ago, I almost bought a new BMW that was coming in. They really wanted to get it counted in the current months sales, so they booked it early. I didn't pay for it, but I guess they told BMW it was sold.
Well, I ended up not taking the car, but I did for a while get nice mail from BMW about my car (service reminders, owners magazine, etc). Took them a while to figure out that I never really bought it.
....... Some good points are being made here and Mathias has a pretty good grip on the situation (he's pretty smart for an Irish guy) ...
*You haven't taken physical delivery* or signed a contract with an in place Vin# .. but with that being said, you "have" put yourself in a not so good situation with the dealer .l.o.l. .. they do have your $$, you are in "their" driver and they can show expenses, time and potential lost sales, but they can't keep your money, or not at least all of it ...
Just like Mathias said, Tread lightly, this could turn oh so ugly .. me personally, I would have them find a color you like and I don't mean a white pearl with chavas blue interior .. this could get sticky, so watch where you step because the throat you step on could be your own.
Mathias and Terry have put it very well ( as they usually do:-).
It's sort of like when you cross the street and you have the walk sign. A truck goes the red light runs you over and kills you. I tell that to one of my "clients" at least once a week. I tell them you are right but you are dead right.
Continue to try and work with the dealership as you have been and hopefully something there will strike your fancy.
We DO have a signed contract with VIN number. I do not have their loaner car.
On Saturday, when the Sales Manager said he would call the bank on Monday and try to unwind the deal, I left the loaner with them.
I'm hoping that since this is Lexus, they will fully unwind it for me. Everyone except the F&I guy told me they would try to get it done. Interestingly, my salesperson even laid the responsibility in the Sales Managers lap since he was the one who wanted us to work the deal on the 14th. Originally he wanted to date it the 28th but because I went with the credit union it could not be post dated.
I have to say, I felt weird about the whole thing (working the deal with no car) from the start. We went there just expecting to put a deposit down and pick up the loaner (which she insisted I take although I had an offer from a friend to use a spare of theirs.). But she did assure me at the time that it would be a problem if I didn't like the car.
The F&I guy was disgusted at me in the first place because when we were working the deal I got a little short with him when he wouldn't take "no" for an answer during "extras" pitch.
sounds to me like you all have worked yourselves into quite a messy situation. Why not just let them find you a car in a color you dislike the least and call it a done deal? Your salesperson sounds a bit pushy, but it also sounds like she is going the extra mile to please you...that should be worth something.
I don't get that either, you say you want to buy an LS430, you just need to find the least repulsive colour, so why not buy from the store that has your deposit. There's more to this story than we have been told.
Thel, listen to what you are saying - "Find the car in a color I dislike the least..."?????? That is EXACTLY what my salesperson DOESN'T wamt because it's not the "Lexus way". No, my salesperson isn't being pushy. In fact the only reason why we worked up the deal that day is because she assured us (and thought so herself as she told me Saturday) that it wouldn't be a problem if the car came in and we didn't like the color. Would you seriously pay $70k for a car that the color was what you "least disliked"???? Give me a break.
We have been dealing with the color issue for a while and when we do find a color we like it will most likely take another 6 weeks to get. My salesperson agrees with my being uncomfortable having a loan for two months and have them hold $30k of my money for that long
The color dilema seems a little confusing at this point. There aren't that many color options, so with all the time at the dealer, haven't you been able to see the few that you haven't completely discounted already?
If there isn't one you like, doesn't seem like any reason to prolong the deal. Get your money back and move on. Or just get silver like everyone else.
After Lexus' "December to Remember" no Dealer in Atlanta has LS430s. Each one had maybe one but no more than that.
The 2004 colors are mostly new and so you can't even check with the used car to see the colors.
Yes, I made the mistake of letting the deal be worked up without seeing the car. I'll take responsibility for that. However the dealer assured me that if I didn't like the color then it wouldn't be a problem and that they wouldn't deposit my check (although the loan had to be funded right away) until the car came in.
I'm NOT saying the dealer is being unreasonable. I'm asking for advice. My issue is letting the dealership hold my $30k and having a loan on a car that I don't/won't own. It took nearly two months to even get an "arrival date" on this one.
Not EVERY customer out there is trying to stick it to the dealers. My family was in the business for a long time and I'm sympathetic. That was my first problem, I was so cocky about knowing the business that I let their zeal get the best of me.
Don't see it very often. I've got a student in class who just asked me if $1800 was expensive for neato blue xenon (?) lights for his MB C-class....argghh.
Sounds like you don't like any of the current LS colors and it's a big enough deal for you that you wouldn't want the car at all in a bad color. I'd unwind the deal completely. However, since it's not the dealer's fault that you ordered a color that you later decided you didn't like, I think it'd be reasonable for them to keep your $1000 deposit, or at least some of it. After all, they had to go through the usual rigamarole of securing the financing, now have car coming that they have to sell, and they did give you a loaner for a time. Now, maybe they'll waive the whole deposit thing because they think they can sell the car fast and are willing to eat the cost of the loaner mileage. I'm just saying that they did a fair amount of work for you and it's not their fault you decided you didn't want the car.
I don't disagree with what you are saying, in general terms, but it really doesn't sound like you have all of the facts.
1. I didn't order the car. The dealers never have LS430 with the Ultra Luxury package as they are usually sold before they get them.
Maybe I wasn't as specific as I should have been and I'll elaborate:
I had been working with this salesperson for about a week. We went to the dealership to drive the car but they had none so I drove a 2003 Demo. We agreed on a price ($xx under MSRP) and then we tried to look for examples of colors. No one had any of the colors that we would like (there were about three that were maybees). She looked on her allocation and saw that the only one coming that was one of those was the Moonlight Pearl (There were only 6 other Ultra Lux's coming to the SE on that shipment and they were Black, White, and Burgundy.). She said she would reserve that car for us.
We had to turn in our leased Cadillac STS so she offered to let us use a loaner until the car came in. Fast forward to last Saturday. The car is scheduled to come in the 28th of February. Our STS had to be in by the 15th, so she said to come in and they would give us the loaner since "it's our fault we don't have a car for you to buy.". I told her I would be happy to bring a check for a $1k deposit, she said "That's fine, if you'd like.".
When we got there, the Sales Manager had told her he wanted to write up the deal, dated the 28th of February. She commented that he probably wanted to write it up because of the loaner and wanted to do it the 28th so it would count for February. She also said that if we weren't happy with the color when it got there, it "would not be a problem". (She agrees that she said this.)As we were writing the deal up she asked about my financing, which I had secured for 4.2%. They said they could get me 3.99% from Lexus and I said, "OK". Then the Sales Manager said that he could get me 3.75% through a local credit union. I said, "OK".
Now we are off to the F&I guy. When he shows us the paperwork, he explains that the credit union will not accept a post-dated contract so it is dated that day - 2/14/04. I gave him a check for $30k and filled out the CU application. The rest is what happened after we saw the Moonlight Pearl in person.
Please note: (I am emphasizing this but not capitalizing it!) I Am Not Saying They Are Trying To Be Dishonest or That I Was Misled. My salesperson and the Sales Manager are working on it today (although I haven't heard anything yet.).
My position is that we both put the cart before the horse for whatever reasons. To unwind it and get the finaned money back to the CU seems only right. They should NOT have deposited my check until the car was delivered.
I would have to imagine the CU will be lessed than pleased that the dealer "sold" and financed a car that doesn't actually exist (and wasn't delivered). I don't pretend to know the relevant statutes, but it seems like someons derriere could be hanging in the breeze if this gets ugly, and that someone belongs to the dealership.
I'm sure that dealer did a retail delivery report (RDR) on the car just in time to get some sales level bonus, or they wouldn't have been in such a hurry. Now, they have to back out the sale, and that looks awfully hinky to their regional Lexus sales rep..
Depending on Lexus' internal rules for this type of RDR shell game (I won't pretend to know), there could be some allocation issues in the future that may cost them dearly.
then sue them for grand theft (they took your money and didn't deliver the product).
considering the dealer is the one that created this mess (remember, the car still hasn't shown up), I doubt they would try to keep anything if the buyer raises a fuss.
i agree to unwind and get your money back. To be fair, keep the deposit on the next unit that you think has a color you might like, and decide when it comes in.
This will get even sticker soon when the 1st payment is due and you still don't have the car. What do you do then?
The more I think about it, if it was me, I would undo this deal completely and get my money back and the finance contract squashed.
undo. if nothing else, you are paying interest between 2/14 and whenever you get the car. Why don't you ask the dealer if they are planning to cover that nut too?
Right now, we have an as-yet not unwound deal, a sales contract for a Moonlight Pearl LS430 that has not been received by the dealer yet, 30 big bills of your money in their hands, and you returned the loaner. You're not sure what colors you might like because you haven't seen them as LS430s are in short supply in your area, but from what you've researched to date, none of the colors really appeal to you.
First things first, let's separate "Lexus" tha manufacturer from "Lexus" your dealer. You have mentioned several times about "the Lexus way", but you can't always match how the manufacturer wants to do business and how a dealer will do business. If they indeed tried to pre-spot the sale to get the sale in before a manufacturer deadline to meet a quota, that certainly wouldn't be "the Lexus way", correct?
Whether or not there's a color you will actually like, I doubt you or they will find it before the end of this month. This means it has to come off their February sales. That is THEIR problem, not yours. Until you find an LS color that you can accept, get the 30-large back in your hands and your bank account. Regardless of how polite they have been about the deal, you should have said no to the Feb 14 contract - and if no was unacceptable to them, you should have walked away clean and found another dealer.
What you can do at this point is ask all the area dealers what colors they have in stock and what colors will arrive in the next month. You should be able to get a good cross section that way. Look all of them over before you commit again, even if the car you actually see is pre-sold.
I'd say you're a good month away from a new LS430.
Here's a question that I'd be interested in knowing the answer to --
Does a dealership make money on an employee purchase, and if so, how? For example, Chrysler has an set employee price of 4 to 5 percent below invoice. I understand that a dealer can make a profit selling at invoice, but this much below would seem to make it difficult unless there's a different factory subsidy.
An additional question, which might be answered by the above, is just how unwelcome is a buyer going to be once it's disclosed that he/she is eligible for the employee price?
Thanks for any input.
Disclaimer: No, I don't have the magic number yet to get the discount, but it's a pretty good sized carrot.
I don't know how Chrysler works but I believe the GM employee program gives the dealer a flat five percent of the MSRP. I suspect the Chrysler program is similar. Except on really hot(hard-to-get in short supply) models, I have found that most GM dealers would jump on an employee sale.
Mfullmer -
Why don't you buy a red Ferrari and keep it at my house. Don't worry I'll let you come over and drive it whenever you want.
Rroyce - Yes, I offered to pay $1k when I picked up the loaner as a deposit (On the phone before I went). When I got there, they wanted me to work the deal right then.
Kcram - I'm going to call them today as they did not get back with me yesterday. I'm not sure what to say though if they claim they can't return the funding (loan) and my down payment. Maybe I should talk to someone, consumerwise, but I just don't know.
I definitely just should have said "no". This mess all started in the F&I dept. If I would have just gone with my own financing that I already had worked out, we would have gotten all the paperwork done but signed and paid when I picked up the car.
Now the F&I guy is already mad at me because I shot him down with all of his "Buy this $1 bill for $20" "Add-Ons" when we were finalizing the deal. He certainly doesn't want it to unwind because I'm sure there is some incentive for them pushing the credit union that they use. Of course, I have no problem with that if it gets me a lower rate but supposedly that is why we had to date it then. I'm so over this.
Whatever the dealer actually sells the car to you for is taxed, so this includes the dest. charge. Taxes and MV fees (the legit charges) are normally not taxed.
It sopunds like you are one of those people who COLOR is the most important thing. I never understand this but, it's your money and you need to be happy.
Make sure you look over the colors in bright sunlight. I would find a different Lexus dealer and start with a fresh sheet of paper.
I think lots of people are like that, I dunno, when I worked in car sales that was one question we were told to ask.
When we were car shopping for a new SUV I think every salesman asked me what colors I liked, my answer was usually, I don't care what color it is as long as its reliable and has a freakin' warranty.
Of course then when it came down to it I wanted red and got red, didn't even see the truck before the whole deal was done. Signed the papers and then drove the truck.......lol, my salesman just laughed, said he sells one here and there without a test drive.
BTW, just a little update on the Chevy (1994 Chevy K3500 6.5L TD PITA) deal that I posted about a few months ago.......he is now 2 payments into it and has been very good about it. The truck is running better than ever and he truely likes it.
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A guy I know works for BMW Bank, and one of the perks is that they get a free or subvented lease on a Bimmer. At this guy's pay scale he gets to drive a 325 for free, or he can use that as credit for something nicer. He's told me that as soon as his current 3 lease is up he's getting a 745iL because they're offering a deal to employees that's too good for him to pass up. He also said they've been offered some great deals on Z4's.
Needless to say, he's a little worried, since usually they offer the best deals on older models they're having trouble moving. Not a good sign when they're giving employees brand new models.
-Jason
http://wcbs880.com/njnews/NJ--Teen-BMWScam-jn/resources_news_html
kcram
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If they are having trouble selling the high-end ones, maybe it is because those cars are mainly wanted by people who are enthisiasts for high-performance European cars, and there are only so many people like that.
Other people are happier to have a nice Lexus or a Mercedes, which I think has more of an image of prestige rather than pure performance.
We actually looked at a BMW lst year, but we thought the design of the dash, which is very important to me, was truly hideous. In fact, we looked at a lot of European cars at the Washington Auto Show last month, and I thought they all had terrible dash designs.
My ideal dash design? My old TR250. While you all are searching the internet for pictures of Janet Jackson, I look at websites that have pictures of beautiful TR250s and TR6s.
In any case, they found a Moonlight Pearl/Ecru, Ultra Lux, that is supposed to be here on the 28th of February (US) and to the dealership sometime the first week in March. Because I had to turn in my Cadillac STS (off lease) my salesperson told me that she would give me a car to drive since she felt bad it was taking so long.
When I got to the dealership last Saturday, she said that her Sales Manager wanted her to work up the deal and we could just do it all that day and trade cars when it came in. I had offered earlier to give her a $1,000 check for a deposit.
We were going to make the date the 28th of February (to get it in February, my Salesperson said.). I was a little leery but she told me not to worry because if there was a problem with the car it would not be a problem.
Then they told me they could get me a better rate than the 4.2% I had arranged through Capital One. Here is the problem though, they were going through a local credit union and they would not accept a date other than that date, February 14th. So we did all the paperwork and I gave them a check for $30,000 and financed the rest.
Fast foreward to Thursday. We saw an actual Moonlight Pearl on the street (not by any white cars) and we hated it. It looked like that ugly pearlescent white of those 90's Cadillacs. So I called my salesperson on Friday and told her I wanted to unwind the deal (I did not realize they had already deposited my deposit check because it had just cleared that morning.) and then we needed to actually take a look at all of the colors and figure out where to go from there. She said "No problem" and we went in this morning.
When I got there she took me in the office with the Finance guy and he told that since it had already funded the car was mine and we would just put in a substitution when we found the one we wanted. Essentially he was putting the finance company at risk because they were using that car as colateral but that car will have been traded/sold to someone else and who knows how long it will take to get the car we want. He was NOT accomodating and NOT acting like anyone who works for Lexus.
My salesperson though, since it was her Sales Manager and her that did the deal talked to the Sales Manager. He said that he is going to call the Bank on Monday and tell them they need to unwind the deal because the car is unacceptable.
First off: Do I have any rights since I never have seen or taken possession of the car?
Second: Is this a matter of good-will that they are unwinding it or just the way it should be.
I am going to get an LS430 because we love the car. Right now I just don't know what color as none of them do much for me.
As for your 2 questions...
1 - What rights are you looking for? Seems as though they are unwinding the contract for the Moonlight car, but they still have your money (30 big bills!!), so until they return that, you are still "locked in" so to speak.
2 - It sounds like they have no intention of returning your money and just want to get you in an LS that they deliver to you. A full unwind means they have to return the 30K and have otherwise invested a lot of time and effort with nothing to show for it. In other words, they want their revenue on this deal.
Since you have no idea which color you really want now, you've got yourself and the dealer in a bad spot. You are driving their loaner and have no car of your own, plus they have your money. They had a funded deal on the table that they now have to partially unwind, and have to wait until you decide on a color - THEN they have to try to find it.
I realize you said you are "going to get an LS430 because we love the car", but if none of the colors appeal to you, you'll never be happy. Strongly consider another car.
kcram
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The whole scheme sounds pretty harebrained; doing a spot delivery is ok, but without the car??? Reminds me of an old Yiddish joke on how telegraphy works: It's just like a really long Dachshund; you pinch it's tail in New York, and the snout barks in Chicago.
How does wireless telegraphy work? Exactly the same, but without the dachshund. I'd rather not be in the finance guy's shoes at this point.
May I suggest an LS430 in silver? Nice, inoffensive color... Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.. this one should be interesting.
Mathias
Well, I ended up not taking the car, but I did for a while get nice mail from BMW about my car (service reminders, owners magazine, etc). Took them a while to figure out that I never really bought it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
*You haven't taken physical delivery* or signed a contract with an in place Vin# .. but with that being said, you "have" put yourself in a not so good situation with the dealer .l.o.l. .. they do have your $$, you are in "their" driver and they can show expenses, time and potential lost sales, but they can't keep your money, or not at least all of it ...
Just like Mathias said, Tread lightly, this could turn oh so ugly .. me personally, I would have them find a color you like and I don't mean a white pearl with chavas blue interior .. this could get sticky, so watch where you step because the throat you step on could be your own.
Terry
It's sort of like when you cross the street and you have the walk sign. A truck goes the red light runs you over and kills you. I tell that to one of my "clients" at least once a week. I tell them you are right but you are dead right.
Continue to try and work with the dealership as you have been and hopefully something there will strike your fancy.
Duncan
On Saturday, when the Sales Manager said he would call the bank on Monday and try to unwind the deal, I left the loaner with them.
I'm hoping that since this is Lexus, they will fully unwind it for me. Everyone except the F&I guy told me they would try to get it done. Interestingly, my salesperson even laid the responsibility in the Sales Managers lap since he was the one who wanted us to work the deal on the 14th. Originally he wanted to date it the 28th but because I went with the credit union it could not be post dated.
I have to say, I felt weird about the whole thing (working the deal with no car) from the start. We went there just expecting to put a deposit down and pick up the loaner (which she insisted I take although I had an offer from a friend to use a spare of theirs.). But she did assure me at the time that it would be a problem if I didn't like the car.
The F&I guy was disgusted at me in the first place because when we were working the deal I got a little short with him when he wouldn't take "no" for an answer during "extras" pitch.
Thel, listen to what you are saying - "Find the car in a color I dislike the least..."?????? That is EXACTLY what my salesperson DOESN'T wamt because it's not the "Lexus way". No, my salesperson isn't being pushy. In fact the only reason why we worked up the deal that day is because she assured us (and thought so herself as she told me Saturday) that it wouldn't be a problem if the car came in and we didn't like the color. Would you seriously pay $70k for a car that the color was what you "least disliked"???? Give me a break.
We have been dealing with the color issue for a while and when we do find a color we like it will most likely take another 6 weeks to get. My salesperson agrees with my being uncomfortable having a loan for two months and have them hold $30k of my money for that long
The color dilema seems a little confusing at this point. There aren't that many color options, so with all the time at the dealer, haven't you been able to see the few that you haven't completely discounted already?
If there isn't one you like, doesn't seem like any reason to prolong the deal. Get your money back and move on. Or just get silver like everyone else.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The 2004 colors are mostly new and so you can't even check with the used car to see the colors.
Yes, I made the mistake of letting the deal be worked up without seeing the car. I'll take responsibility for that. However the dealer assured me that if I didn't like the color then it wouldn't be a problem and that they wouldn't deposit my check (although the loan had to be funded right away) until the car came in.
I'm NOT saying the dealer is being unreasonable. I'm asking for advice. My issue is letting the dealership hold my $30k and having a loan on a car that I don't/won't own. It took nearly two months to even get an "arrival date" on this one.
Not EVERY customer out there is trying to stick it to the dealers. My family was in the business for a long time and I'm sympathetic. That was my first problem, I was so cocky about knowing the business that I let their zeal get the best of me.
2. Take a deep breath.
3. If you find a color in which you want the LS430, go to the dealership, make the deal, pay for the car, etc.
4. If something else catches your eye, buy it.
I'm in no situation to yell at anyone. Notice I didn't dispute your "worked yourselves into quite a messy situation" comment. I agree.
Sorry that you took it that way, I wasn't yelling.
Sounds like you don't like any of the current LS colors and it's a big enough deal for you that you wouldn't want the car at all in a bad color. I'd unwind the deal completely. However, since it's not the dealer's fault that you ordered a color that you later decided you didn't like, I think it'd be reasonable for them to keep your $1000 deposit, or at least some of it. After all, they had to go through the usual rigamarole of securing the financing, now have car coming that they have to sell, and they did give you a loaner for a time. Now, maybe they'll waive the whole deposit thing because they think they can sell the car fast and are willing to eat the cost of the loaner mileage. I'm just saying that they did a fair amount of work for you and it's not their fault you decided you didn't want the car.
1. I didn't order the car. The dealers never have LS430 with the Ultra Luxury package as they are usually sold before they get them.
Maybe I wasn't as specific as I should have been and I'll elaborate:
I had been working with this salesperson for about a week. We went to the dealership to drive the car but they had none so I drove a 2003 Demo. We agreed on a price ($xx under MSRP) and then we tried to look for examples of colors. No one had any of the colors that we would like (there were about three that were maybees). She looked on her allocation and saw that the only one coming that was one of those was the Moonlight Pearl (There were only 6 other Ultra Lux's coming to the SE on that shipment and they were Black, White, and Burgundy.). She said she would reserve that car for us.
We had to turn in our leased Cadillac STS so she offered to let us use a loaner until the car came in. Fast forward to last Saturday. The car is scheduled to come in the 28th of February. Our STS had to be in by the 15th, so she said to come in and they would give us the loaner since "it's our fault we don't have a car for you to buy.". I told her I would be happy to bring a check for a $1k deposit, she said "That's fine, if you'd like.".
When we got there, the Sales Manager had told her he wanted to write up the deal, dated the 28th of February. She commented that he probably wanted to write it up because of the loaner and wanted to do it the 28th so it would count for February. She also said that if we weren't happy with the color when it got there, it "would not be a problem". (She agrees that she said this.)As we were writing the deal up she asked about my financing, which I had secured for 4.2%. They said they could get me 3.99% from Lexus and I said, "OK". Then the Sales Manager said that he could get me 3.75% through a local credit union. I said, "OK".
Now we are off to the F&I guy. When he shows us the paperwork, he explains that the credit union will not accept a post-dated contract so it is dated that day - 2/14/04. I gave him a check for $30k and filled out the CU application. The rest is what happened after we saw the Moonlight Pearl in person.
Please note: (I am emphasizing this but not capitalizing it!) I Am Not Saying They Are Trying To Be Dishonest or That I Was Misled. My salesperson and the Sales Manager are working on it today (although I haven't heard anything yet.).
My position is that we both put the cart before the horse for whatever reasons. To unwind it and get the finaned money back to the CU seems only right. They should NOT have deposited my check until the car was delivered.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Depending on Lexus' internal rules for this type of RDR shell game (I won't pretend to know), there could be some allocation issues in the future that may cost them dearly.
That was the original reason for dating the paperwork the 28th only for the CU sake, they had to date it for the 14th.
1. Your $1k down,
2. Your $30k check,
3. Funding of ~$40k from the CU, and
4. The Lexus in question?
Are your checks cashed?
considering the dealer is the one that created this mess (remember, the car still hasn't shown up), I doubt they would try to keep anything if the buyer raises a fuss.
i agree to unwind and get your money back. To be fair, keep the deposit on the next unit that you think has a color you might like, and decide when it comes in.
This will get even sticker soon when the 1st payment is due and you still don't have the car. What do you do then?
The more I think about it, if it was me, I would undo this deal completely and get my money back and the finance contract squashed.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The first payment is due 3/30/04. Hopefully we have this taken care of before then.
Should I contact the Credit Union if the dealership doesn't help me?
(It's now 4:05pm and I've heard nothing.)
>>I told her I would be happy to bring a check for a $1k deposit, she said "That's fine, if you'd like."<<...
Who's on first ..?
I'm so confused, and it ain't even my car ... no deposit, right.?
Terry.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Right now, we have an as-yet not unwound deal, a sales contract for a Moonlight Pearl LS430 that has not been received by the dealer yet, 30 big bills of your money in their hands, and you returned the loaner. You're not sure what colors you might like because you haven't seen them as LS430s are in short supply in your area, but from what you've researched to date, none of the colors really appeal to you.
First things first, let's separate "Lexus" tha manufacturer from "Lexus" your dealer. You have mentioned several times about "the Lexus way", but you can't always match how the manufacturer wants to do business and how a dealer will do business. If they indeed tried to pre-spot the sale to get the sale in before a manufacturer deadline to meet a quota, that certainly wouldn't be "the Lexus way", correct?
Whether or not there's a color you will actually like, I doubt you or they will find it before the end of this month. This means it has to come off their February sales. That is THEIR problem, not yours. Until you find an LS color that you can accept, get the 30-large back in your hands and your bank account. Regardless of how polite they have been about the deal, you should have said no to the Feb 14 contract - and if no was unacceptable to them, you should have walked away clean and found another dealer.
What you can do at this point is ask all the area dealers what colors they have in stock and what colors will arrive in the next month. You should be able to get a good cross section that way. Look all of them over before you commit again, even if the car you actually see is pre-sold.
I'd say you're a good month away from a new LS430.
kcram
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Does a dealership make money on an employee purchase, and if so, how? For example, Chrysler has an set employee price of 4 to 5 percent below invoice. I understand that a dealer can make a profit selling at invoice, but this much below would seem to make it difficult unless there's a different factory subsidy.
An additional question, which might be answered by the above, is just how unwelcome is a buyer going to be once it's disclosed that he/she is eligible for the employee price?
Thanks for any input.
Disclaimer: No, I don't have the magic number yet to get the discount, but it's a pretty good sized carrot.
I don't know how Chrysler works but I believe the GM employee program gives the dealer a flat five percent of the MSRP. I suspect the Chrysler program is similar. Except on really hot(hard-to-get in short supply) models, I have found that most GM dealers would jump on an employee sale.
Mfullmer -
Why don't you buy a red Ferrari and keep it at my house. Don't worry I'll let you come over and drive it whenever you want.
Kcram - I'm going to call them today as they did not get back with me yesterday. I'm not sure what to say though if they claim they can't return the funding (loan) and my down payment. Maybe I should talk to someone, consumerwise, but I just don't know.
Now the F&I guy is already mad at me because I shot him down with all of his "Buy this $1 bill for $20" "Add-Ons" when we were finalizing the deal. He certainly doesn't want it to unwind because I'm sure there is some incentive for them pushing the credit union that they use. Of course, I have no problem with that if it gets me a lower rate but supposedly that is why we had to date it then. I'm so over this.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It sopunds like you are one of those people who COLOR is the most important thing. I never understand this but, it's your money and you need to be happy.
Make sure you look over the colors in bright sunlight. I would find a different Lexus dealer and start with a fresh sheet of paper.
Good Luck!
When we were car shopping for a new SUV I think every salesman asked me what colors I liked, my answer was usually, I don't care what color it is as long as its reliable and has a freakin' warranty.
Of course then when it came down to it I wanted red and got red, didn't even see the truck before the whole deal was done. Signed the papers and then drove the truck.......lol, my salesman just laughed, said he sells one here and there without a test drive.
BTW, just a little update on the Chevy (1994 Chevy K3500 6.5L TD PITA) deal that I posted about a few months ago.......he is now 2 payments into it and has been very good about it. The truck is running better than ever and he truely likes it.