Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

rroyce10 · March 2004

........ Straighten out a crease in the fender, yeah .. maybe a fender repaint, yeah maybe .. but as a rule, a dealer isn't going to get into the rebuild business, it's not worth their time or the money, some of the BHPH lots might get into that because of their particular market, but perhaps in this case it might have been traded ..

But like one of the other posters recommended, I would be shopping it around and getting a second opinion or three ...

Terry.

turboshadow · March 2004

What's that mean?

kyfdx · March 2004

michaellno · March 2004

...the real problem would be getting rid of my '03 Saturn L300 with 25K on the odometer. I bet that would take the price of that SVT back up to $20K again!

vikd · March 2004

...In what way are you dissatisfied with the L300? Not a big Saturn fan myself but just curious as they seem like decent vehicles...

Regards... Vikd

michaellno · March 2004

Not dissatisfied; just was thinking of a smaller payment.

My L300 is loaded - basically, everything but the 6CD changer and the DVD system (which I couldn't get because I wanted the sunroof). I figured I saved anywhere between $2500 to $3500 over a similarly equipped Camry, Altima, Accord or Passat.

The only complaints I get is that the back seat is pretty small for such a large car -- the back seat of our Focus ZX5 seems larger by comparison -- and that it sits pretty low to the ground, which my wife doesn't like as she feels she has to climb "up" to get out (I guess our SUV history is showing!).

When I bought the Saturn, it was with the understanding that I would be keeping it for a good, long time. I've had it 15 months now and am pretty content -- I get about 25 MPG in mostly highway driving; the heated seats and traction control are nice in the winter; the sunroof equally welcome in the summer; the V6 power and torque are nice when merging or passing; the trunk is decent sized; to top it off, the service at my local dealer is outstanding!

I've just been missing the joy of a stick shift, is all. Fortunately, we've got the Focus to address that. Right now I'm driving the Ford on a daily basis as our daughter is learning to drive and the Saturn, being an automatic, is easier for her to learn in.

odd1 · March 2004

Nope I told them. Like as if they wouldn't have known in about two seconds it had been painted multiple times. I also gave them the mechanic's report showing it needed a $1K brake job.

Or did you mean I should have gotten more than fair for it?

kyfdx · March 2004

Or do the loaded up Saturn L300s look a lot like the new Saab 9-3? I seem to be doing double takes when I see the Saturns, and I am traditionally not a fan of domestics.

regards,
kyfdx

michaellno · March 2004

When I first got my L300, a parking lot attendant thought it was a Cadillac (the Catera, I think).

Yeah, I kinda like the looks of my car, especially with the pewter color, the bronze tinted windows and the 16" chrome wheels -- of course, it's filthy at the moment, what with the rain and snow we've been getting lately

steine13 · March 2004

They're all related.... the Saturn L series is spawned of the Opel Vectra platform; one class up is (or was, anyway) the Opel Omega, which shares its platform with the Cadillac Catera (RIP), the Holden Monaro in Australia, and now the Pontiac GTO.
The new Vectra (just came out within the last year) shares its platform with some Saab...

-Mathias
who definitely needs to get a life...

vikd · March 2004

...the L and the 9-3 are pretty similar in profile if nothing else.

Exterior wise, the L is attractive. It's when I've looked/sat in them that I sorta felt the interior didnt match the exterior in terms of feel, fit and finish. Too bad the rear seats are not as roomy as the overall size of the car would suggest. I think the L would be a good buy for a loaded up family sedan if not for the lack of passenger space...

Regards... Vikd

turboshadow · March 2004

Opel Omega, which shares its platform with the Cadillac Catera (RIP), the Holden Monaro in Australia, and now the Pontiac GTO.

-------------------------------------------
Really?!? With all the cheap Catera's out there now, I wonder if anyone has done an LS-1/6-spd swap yet. Talk about a sleeper!

I can hear the ads now:

"Catera v-8; The Caddy that rules!"

kyfdx · March 2004

My co-worker bought the first one in town here. Red with black leather. He is a Pontiac guy from way back, and just had to have it. Paid MSRP, which is somewhere around $32K, I think.

I keep wanting to like it, but it just puts me to sleep. The only redeeming feature is the engine and six-speed, but I guess that was the point behind the original GTO as well.. Nothing special outside, just a big honking motor.

I foresee T-bird like resale values, though.. Hope he plans on keeping it a long time.

regards,
kyfdx

thel · March 2004

I think Terry was questioning the amount you say you received for the car, not whether or not you told the dealer about the damage. Read the previous 20 or so posts for some of the context of the thread at the time.

michaellno · March 2004

It's funny, when I was shopping for my car, the one thing I really liked about the L was the interior. It's the exterior that has grown on me over time.

I did an extensive test drive of an Altima, and I just couldn't like the interior. Even though the Altima looked best from the outside (IMO), my thinking was that I was going to spend far more time inside the car, and that I had better like the interior. The orange lighting of the instruments just didn't sit well with me.

I did like the Accord interior as well, but for some reason, the wife has a thing against Hondas. Same with the Camry. We both liked the Passat (inside and out), but the lack of useful storage space, coupled with the price, made us cross it off our list.

chrisjericho · March 2004

I have a question: How do car dealers handle cars that sit on their lot for a long time? I was looking at a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP last August but could not agree on a price with the dealer. The same car is still on the dealer's lot now. Does the dealer need to charge more for the car since the holdback is gone and they are paying interest on the car?

chorton · March 2004

Normally the longer a dealer has a car, the lower the price will get. After the holdback has been used, normally after 90 days, the car is costing money every day it is kept in inventory. in time they might even take a loss on it just to get it out of the floor plan. sometimes supply and demand might throw a kink in this.

odd1 · March 2004

Thanks. I thought it was a very fair deal. I was afraid I had been taken on the trade after Terry's comment.

I guess I could give the details and let Terry decide. '97 318i 4dr, BLK, fake hides and a hole, row it yourself, 3 month old rubber on two, 78,000, spanked twice and hail, all records, Houston. Got $5K needed a $1K brake job. Kbb fair- $6K. I'd say the brakes make it full Kbb fair. Told them I'd looked at Edmund's and Kbb and would take Mannheim for it.

Other factors Honda Pilot EX-L, three days left in the month, $800($900 minus $100 off internet coupon) over invoice, AHF. I counted around 90 Pilots on the approx 10 Honda dealer lots in the Houston area w/i one hour's drive. Internet sale.

vikd · March 2004

...needed some serious work and got it for '05. I agree with your sentiment that you better like the interior as you certainly don't drive the vehicle sitting on the hood (though that would be kinda cool). I too test drove the Altima and while I was satisfied with the drive, performance factor and exterior design, I was not surprised by the well documented interior deficiencies. To me, it is just the opposite of something like the Infiniti I35; overly gussied up previous gen Max on the outside, but very nice, high quality on the inside...

Regards... Vikd

michaellno · March 2004

Yeah, I'd heard that Nissan put some attention to the Altima interior for '05. Shame; I really liked that car otherwise. I didn't get a chance to drive the V6; if I had, I might have blown the budget to acquire one (they were running about $28K sticker at the time).

Oh well. No sense dwelling on the past. Going to the auto show this weekend here in Denver. This year, the wife is coming (not her most favorite activity), but since she is getting a new car/SUV later this summer, I explained to her that this would be an opportunity to sit in all the potential contenders and size them up.

She can then decide what goes on the short list to test drive later this year, closer to buying time. The list of cars to evaluate on Saturday include:

Subaru - Forester, Outback, WRX
Mitsubishi - Outlander
Pontiac - Vibe
Toyota - Matrix, RAV4
Saturn - VUE
Chevy - Equinox
Hyundai - Santa Fe
Ford - Escape
Mazda - Tribute

Plus, I'm sure, others that I can't remember.

adam1 · March 2004

i just looked at a 04 nissan titan xe crew cab 4x4 with P/W, PD/L, no off road package or tow package sticker was 29,000 if i offered the dealer to pay that price as an out the door price would i be getting a good/decent deal. or could i do better. i figure that the sale price would be in the high 26,000 for it .

bowke28 · March 2004

i get LOTS of people asking to make the sticker price the OTD price. if that is a comfortable price, and its for the truck you really want, then i think it would be a fair deal for both parties. here in KY, we would have to sell it for ~$27300~ to get to thae $29k OTD price. this leaves about $1000 over invoice, and although you might get more off, it depends if you want to grind your teeth for a couple hunskys. so far, we've only discounted 1 titan to the owner's friend, so they can still command a premium depending on the dealer.

mfullmer · March 2004

I have a question about delivery.

I ordered an RX330 (AWD, Nav/MLevinson Pkg) on 2/28/04. The dealer had these little square sticky notes for each car they could order. Mine is coming from Canada and had a build date of 3/8/04.

Does anyone know what I can expect as far as how long it takes it to 1. Go from production to shipping and 2. Get shipped from Canada to the Southeast (Atlanta).

My salesperson has been so great over nearly two months and has really helped out. I hate to bug her (although I know thats her job, she'd be happy to, etc.) about this as I'm getting anxious.

Thanks in advance.

visualpurple · March 2004

I was checking out a '02 Toyota Corolla (Certified Pre-Owned) at a licensed dealership this weekend.

When I ran a carfax report on the car I found that there was no date recorded for when the dealership took ownership of the car.

There are dates for when the car was first purchased, registered etc. and then 2 reports when it went in for inspection but nothing else.

I'm wondering how a dealership can sell a car that when there is no record of the title changing hands?

Can anybody clear this up for me?

Thank you.

stickguy · March 2004

there is some lag time with carfax, so it is possible that the records just havent caught up to it. There may be some issues about not getting a new title at the dealer (I think they do things a little differently with used inventory), especially if it was a trade, and not bought at auction.

Then again, I'm not in the biz, so I'm just guessing about the last part.

bowke28 · March 2004

also keep in mind that carfax is a privately owned company. they ARE NOT the DMV. it amazes me how people consider carfax to be gospel. they are a privately owned company, and although they provide a good service, it is impossible for their records to keep pace with any state's government transactions.

robr2 · March 2004

It was funny - last time I was linked to them on a used car, they had a link that read something like:

"Know anything about this vehicle? Let us know."

Hooboy - talk about the potential for problems.

stevestein · March 2004

Back when Parsons was running the DMV in NJ they made a mistake entering my mileage, reading 8151.4 as 81K. Starting immediately at the inspection station and over the next several months I tried to get them to fix it. You can probably guess how far I got. Now it is almost 2 1/2 years later and the car mileage is in the 30K's. I'm pretty sure this glitch will show up in the carfax report, so my question is how will this affect things. I suppose since it's been dealer serviced there is a GM record somewhere, as well as subsequent inspection data.

driftracer · March 2004

up as an odometer discrepancy and tank the value of the vehicle - make sure you have the guilty party, not you, fix it ASAP.

rroyce10 · March 2004

..... ** Mine is coming from Canada and had a build date of 3/8/04 ..** .. should be in built status by this week, transport holding next week, you should be seeing it around the 2nd week or so of April, depending on the dealer and the yankee weather ....

Terry.

mfullmer · March 2004

I called my salesperson today and this is what I was told:

The RX330 is built in one day. It was built on 3/8/04. She was able to get the VIN number today. It was tested on 3/12/04 and put on the train 3/15/04 (today). The trip here (Atlanta) should take about a week (frequent stops?) and the car will be here next Monday. They should get it at the dealership next Wednesday.

Where did you get your info? Am I just being fed a line by her?

raybear · March 2004

Give it a break! It takes a while for reports to get filed and updated. If anything I'd take it as a good sign that the car hasn't been festering on the lot for very long.

rroyce10 · March 2004

........ For starters .. go to the service dept and pull all the service records, they will show dates and miles, that's a big help for future possible problems ...

Second, you need to take them down to DMV with the "original title" and get it changed and before you leave, have them run the *title status* for the last 3 years and take the copy to avert future brain damage .....

DMV's, it's like watching grass grow..

Terry.

rroyce10 · March 2004

........ Don't panic .. depending on the situation, pay-offs, auction bought, etc most states have 5 weeks before the title has to surface .. also, "some" dealers don't double flip the titles until sale time because of floorplan, thats probably the reason why it's not showing ....

Terry.

rroyce10 · March 2004

....... If it was "built" on 3/8 and tested on 3/12 .. then it's already been thru assembly and finished, then it's dropped in the Canada staging area and if they say 3/15, then it's pretty darn close .. then it will hit the Atlanta staging area, then truck transported to the dealer(s) and that "might" take the longest time, then a little PDI, a super detail and a glorious delivery ~ and enjoy it.! - very nice vehicles.!

I must have read your post incorrectly, I thought it said assembly build, which would mean the middle of April, believe me, Lexus knows where ALL their stuff is at .l.o.l.....

Terry.

stevestein · March 2004

Only mileage reported is 85 miles at initial registration. All report sectors are green, so I guess they never got info from NJ. Thanks for the feedback driftracer and Terry.

akangl · March 2004

I really like Carfax, but have found descrepencies in vehicles. I was looking at a Chevy truck last summer and the frame had been welded.......carfax was clean though, strange.

On another note, if it hadn't been for carfax I would have thought our Dodge was a rollback (hmmm, been hanging at Walmart too much lately), 11,300 miles on a then 4 year old truck. We still have people ask, its now 5 years old (1999) and just turned 16k yesterday. I also checked dealer records to verify the mileage, very low and very odd for an Alaskan truck.

My Explorer will pass the Dodge's mileage within the next 3 months......will turn 7500 this week.

isellhondas · March 2004

There was nothing strange about that at all. a frame get's welded? Maybe not even a big deal.

A Carfax can be a help or a hindrence when selling a car. The idiot at the emission testing shop reads the odometer wrong? This happens all of the time and it's usually readilly apparant.

Still, it can cause a nervous buyer to walk away.

Someone I know got rear ended at a light a couple of years ago. Very minor damage was done. I think something like 300.00 to the bumper cover.

As the parties were exchanging information, a cop happened by and he filled out an accident report.

Not a big deal until three years later, my friend advertised his spotless Camry in the paper. The first person to look at it gave him a deposit and made arrangements to pick it up the next day.

Then he gets a phone call..." Ah, I decided not to buy your car...I ran a Carfax and I see it's been in an accident"

At first, my friend had NO IDEA what this guy was talking about since his car had never been in "an accident".

Then, his wife reminded him of the bumper damage so he ran his own Carfax. Sure enough...ACCIDENT REPORTED..4/22/99.

He told his "buyer" what had happened but it didn't matter.

As it turns out, he had no shortage of phone calls and it quickly sold. The first guy missed out on one hell of a nice Camry.

qbrozen · March 2004

I was in an accident in my Dodge Dakota for about $1800 in damage. Accident report. Insurance report. The whole deal.

It never showed up on Carfax.

isellhondas · March 2004

Carfax isn't foolproof. Just a "filter", something to look at.

But, actually, 1800.00 is pretty minor damage with today's high repair costs.

akangl · March 2004

I'm going to pull a carfax on my dad's Ram in a few months, he had an accident in January....$3500 damage to his truck, all suspension, no paintwork, but front bumper was replaced. Then last month (14 days after getting it out of the body shop) he rolled it, $9000 in damage, the entire driver's side will be replaced and painted. Plus the truck sat upside down for 2 hours, so who knows what kind of damage was done to the engine (it wasn't running but fluid everywhere).

Will be interesting to see if that shows up. He's thinking he will be able to trade it this fall and not mention the accidents, I say a savvy UCM will pick up on that in a heartbeat.

isellhondas · March 2004

Any used car manager worth his salt will be able to spot that much damage in a big hurry.

akangl · March 2004

I tried to tell him that, but he is certain he can just not say anything and they won't notice. I don't know any UCM in their RIGHT mind that would want a 2001 Ram Cummins that was rolled. I bet I can spot that work from a mile away.

qbrozen · March 2004

$1800 may be minor, but, of course, its not like carfax looked at the repair bill and said "eh, nobody will care about that."

it still involved a new bumper, metal work on the fender, and a repaint of the fender and hood, so I'm sure someone buying would care.

Like you said, carfax is not foolproof. its nice when it shows you something on a car you're buying, but just because it says its clean ....

well, we all get the point by now.

isellhondas · March 2004

How one accident can show up and another one won't. A good reason to have a prospective used car checked out.

qbrozen · March 2004

volvomax · March 2004

Speaking as someone who does appraise cars on occasion nothing pisses me off more than a customer who won't disclose accident damage. We even ask up front when we're filling out the appraisal form "Has the car been in an accident?"

Tell your dad to be upfront w/ his dealer, it will go easier if he is.

fredvh · March 2004

Honesty is the best policy. As a Christian I feel that it is the only way to live one's life. You will feel better about yourself afterwards if you are honest with the used-car salesman. We do not expect them to lie to us so why would we do any different.

stubborn1 · March 2004

The previous posts got me thinking about the carfax thing. Last year when I was in for emissions testing, the tech accidentally entered 406k miles instead of 106k miles. I didn't notice until a week later when I was filing my paperwork.

Does all state required emission testing show up on Carfax? I'm not overly concerned about it because i'm going to drive my vehicle into the grave - just curious.

raybear · March 2004

Carfax will give your car an odometer alert now.

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