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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

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  • roninjoutenroninjouten Member Posts: 201
    ...talk about fitting a stereotype.

    Most salesguys have been respectful regardless of my dress. I can come from work in business casual or weekend clothes - shorts and a hole-laden T-shirt - and generally get fine service. Off-hand I can only think of two times I was ignored...both times at Toyota dealerships. Odd, their Lexus buddies bend over backward.

    I've found that going into Nordstrom AFTER purchasing something at a mall will get me excellent service. If I stop at Nordstrom first, I tend to get ignored while wearing weekend clothes (something comfortable, ie, jeans/shorts).
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    You're right. There are soooo many fake Rolex watches these days coming out of China....who would be able to tell at a glance. AND I wouldn't put it past a car salesperson to be wearing one bought off of ebay......
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    What's with the contempt?

    Have you ever stopped to consider the possibility that a lot of car salespeople may have a net worth or an education that puts yours to shame?

    BTW...I wear a Citizen. It cost a whopping 200.00 and I wouldn't own a Rolex if I won the lottery tomorrow.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    What contempt?

    I asked a question, I received an answer from isellpotiac. I replied. Now if there was any contempt, it wasn't from me. I returned the comment. Now as for your second question, well, let's just say that if I was a betting person, I wouldn't bet on the odds on that as there are exceptions and odds wise wouldn't be a good bet.

    Lastly, what's wrong with a Rolex? The answer is not for me but for isellpotiac.

    Rock on.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    You’d like to think as salespeople you don’t prejudge as sometimes you can be in for a big surprise. Even knowing this, how often do you do it?

    Back to my question, does anyone know what Clive Christian for men's fragrance is if someone dressed like a slob walked in with it? Similarly, would he be treated any better cause of it? or ignored cause the fragrance wasn't recognized?
  • isellpotiacisellpotiac Member Posts: 122
    I know car people that pay more in taxes than 80% of america makes. As far as a fake Rolex I have seen them but if you are in the market for a watch the best bet is to contact the fleet manager so you get the best deal with no hassles. I know a guy that sells Harley Davidson cycles. In high demand and hard to get. He had this customer who ordered a bike. When it came in he called the customer to tell him the bike was in but it would take a week to prep it for delivery. Customer started whining like some will and the salesman said "no problem, be here in an hour!" Customer shows up and the salesman gives him back the $1000 deposit and tells him to get lost. I am thinking of selling motorcycles so I can return the nonsense I have to put up with selling cars. Not a dig at anyone, just thought it was a funny story.
  • rbrenton88rbrenton88 Member Posts: 186
    I wouldn't know Clive Christian from Eu de Kmart, but I don't wear cologne so...

    I also wouldn't know a fake Rolex from a real one. Never could remember if the second hand on a real one is supposed to sweep or tick.

    I admit I have bought wine with a screwtop..but not lately.

    Just so we are clear on this.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    a polyester suit from Sears be treated?
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    Carefully. Polyester's pretty flammable.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    ...one thing I wanna know.
    Would Jesus wear a Rolex
    on a television show?

    Sorry, for some reason it just popped into my head ;-) I remember hearing the catchy little jingle on a radio station in Florida around the time of the Jim and Tammy Faye Baker scandal back in '87...

    -Andre
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Clive Christian?

    Yeah, they have a store in West Palm, over on PGA boulevard I think. They're really known for their cabinetry, kitchen cabinets..etc.. They had done the kitchen in the condo I used to have in NY actually. Amazing work and one of the reasons why I bought the place. Although, quite a bit of an overimprovement if you ask me. Although it helped when I sold the place.

    I'm not familiar with their frangrances other than, if I remember, doesn't it come in a Crystal bottle with a hand-cut Crystal stopper in the shape of a Crown? I've seen their ads in a magazine I get. I personally very rarely wear cologne.

    Bill
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    "Hey, Bob. You know, this cologne isn't exactly moving the way we thought it would."

    "Well, we're charging $1,800 a bottle-- not too many people can afford that."

    "Hmm. I guess you're right. We'll have to diversify. What do you suggest?"

    "Hmm...How about kitchen cabinetry?"

    "Brilliant."
  • hingramhingram Member Posts: 24
    Must have been a while back. They quit distributing grands a long time ago.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    buy a bottle of cologne and get a kitchen cabinet knob for free. This could work...lol

    Rich
  • cgaydoscgaydos Member Posts: 116
    Good point. This was the CEO's story and he loved to tell it. There were many details he told that I left out. I'm sure many of them were exaggerated, but it still made a good story.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's a bottle of Crown Royal you're thinking of.

    Lousy cologne but oh, so smooooooth!
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    LOL
  • stevecanuckstevecanuck Member Posts: 33
    What would the new car salesmen say is their "value add" in the whole car buying experience?

    I am really not trying to be offensive here. My personal experience with my last three cars has been that I've done the legwork on research about features, quality, availaility and I've arranged my financing, taken responsibility for selling off the used car, and I'm looking just for someone to OK a testdrive or name a price.

    Is this where most buyers are at, or is there a lot more handholding to get people to buy?
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    As an Internet Sales Manager & the Apostle Manager I certainly do more
    than my fair share of handholding...It is old school, but a good number of
    features do not benefits make. and if they are not benefits to you then they
    add no value, and that is what you are going to pay for...the value that you
    perceive. Now, it is certainly true that you do not find this concept in
    practice very often, but when you do; I am sure that you appreciate it...
  • spellboundspellbound Member Posts: 77
    While I do my own research on vehicles and features I recently went through a new Passat wagon purchase where my salesman did a lot of handholding through the availability, allocation and tracking process. It was hard to find and allocate the color and option configuration I wanted especially as the new Passat wagons were just coming ashore. They were able to get VWAO to allocate and ship a car from another port in order to get me what I wanted and for a while there we were talking on a daily basis finding the car and keeping me informed as to where it was and when it would get here. I really appreciated the effort. (George Johnson & Bill Pansky at Boardwalk VW)

    In addition if you find a good salesman that is starightforward to work with, with whom you can get a good price and who provides superior customer service then you'd prefer to continue to deal with them on future vehicle purchases. It's just too bad they are tied to specific manufacturers. My next car will probably be an Audi so I'd have to go somewhere else but I'd still talk to George first and see if he's tied into an Audi dealer or has a contact to refer me to.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Truth is, few people are that well-prepared, and oftentimes, those that think they are really arent.

    I can remember basically telling someone that they were not going to buy a Volvo S80 from me until they test drove it. I flipped them the keys to a 2.9 and a T6 and told them to have fun.

    Turns out, the 2.9 that they didnt want had plenty enough power for them and that the seats in the T6 that they DID originally plan on buying weren't comfortable to them.

    Also, turns out that Venetian Red didnt look all that good in person to them either :)

    People who know EXACTLY what they want are, in reality, quite rare. Generally they are people, in my experience, who are replacing a destroyed car.

    Bill
  • spellboundspellbound Member Posts: 77
    Although I did my initial research on the internet it wasn't until I'd test driven a number of cars that I made my choice. Even then without visiting the dealership, looking at color combinations, trying the different options in person such as seating (cloth vs leather, you may like the looks of one or the other but until you sit in them you don't know what suits you) and trying the different engines etc. that I knew what I really wanted. The salesman can be helpful in this process or depending on the salesperson can be a hinderence if they're trying to steer you towards something they want to get off the lot vs what you want or suits you and your budget.
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    Maybe I should drive an 8-series. That might get the prospect of owning one someday out of my system. I still semi-lust after them, even after hearing Shifty's very good advice about old, complex technology. (And by the time I can afford one, it'll be VERY old, complex technology...lol.)
  • majorthomechomajorthomecho Member Posts: 1,331
    I knew more about the Echo than the salesman or the Internet Manager.
  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    Just because you might know alot about something...does not make you an expert. I deal with people ALL the time that come in with, prices, interset rates and trade in figures. It's a RARE day that they all come out right.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    oh, you got that right...

    in my field, i run into it all the time... some clown decides just because he reads every "internet" weekly known to man thinks that he now understands data processing...

    -Chris
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    Including the financial services business ...... they read everything that Consumers' Reports, Consumers' Digest, Kiplinger's, etal. said. Not to mention their neighbor's "wet-behind-the-ears" financial planner of six months who echoes what his "two-years-of-experience" supervisor preaches. A little knowledge is often more dangerous than none at all.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Remember them? They sure had all of the answers!
  • jakeg64jakeg64 Member Posts: 23
    Just wanted some opinions as to the best technique. Scenario: You arrive at a selling price which includes holdback, destination fee, and adv. charge and you're confident that there is not much profit in the deal (let's asssume end of month and slow sales) You know you have excellent credit and will be approved at the manufacturer's incentive rate. Should you ask to see the contract to avoid getting hit at the end with pre-printed inflated fees? In other words, will a dealer ever show a customer the contract prior to printing one out?
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    Yeah, I remember "the Coach." He preached the "evils" of "over-priced" whole life insurance while peddling the highest-priced and worst term insurance plans in the industry, especially for women (they were charged the same as men, even though they have a longer life expectancy of six years). I once replaced their term policy with my lower-premium universal life plan. The organization is still around under a different name, although Williams has been shoved aside and no is no longer connected with the business.

    To put it in perspective, it was like criticizing a Mercedes 560SL as an "over-priced" vehicle, then selling a Yugo at a Lexus LS400 tariff. It would be less expensive than the M-B, but hardly a "bargain" for the "savings."
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Member Posts: 647
    Hey with many of ladies wanting equal rights, I have no problem with charging them the same life insurance, or even car insurance rates as men.

    Or, better yet, charge the men the same as women. :GRIN:

    OBTW, good points.

    Cheers,

    TB
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Member Posts: 1,284
    Do you know why men die before women?

    Because after 40+ years of marriage, they want to. :-)
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Member Posts: 298
    There is no need to see the contract before hand. Once the salesman and yourself agree on a price,ask what the total is including tax, tags, and fees. If the contract is printed and does not match the total you were given don't sign it. You do not own the vehicle untill you sign the contract.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    you accept delivery?
  • bravocharlie1bravocharlie1 Member Posts: 14
    I made what I felt was a fair offer on a vehicle but the dealer and I couldn't quite agree on the trade-in aspect of the deal so I walked due to his ridiculous trade-in amount. The dealer still has the vehicle on his lot 2 weeks after we spoke. Does a dealer keep records of offers on specific vehicles? I'm looking at a different vehicle now but really liked the first vehicle. I'm just wondering about being patient and getting called by the dealer toward the end of the month. The prices I was offering were supported by KBB and other sources and even another vehicle on the dealers lot of same make/model. I felt I was getting a good deal on the new car but scammed on the trade-in to make up for it.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    What was the trade?

    I've found that Kelly can often hit cars over their actual market values. I.E. KBB.com says a car is worth $14K trade.. but they're crossing the auction block by the dozens at $12K or so.

    I see it a lot.

    What was the deal that you had? Post your trade over in "Real-World Trade-In Values" We'll see if you're getting hosed here.

    Also, did you try shopping around?

    Bill
  • raybearraybear Member Posts: 1,795
    I've seen KBB off by several thousand dollars. I've seen Edmunds off too.

    Be careful when assessing "book" value for your car. Are you looking at it objectively? How are the tires? Any dents/dings/scratches? These all impact the trade value.

    If you're not happy with what you get in trade why not sell it yourself?
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    Good one! :>) :>) :>)

    Now, I have to make sure my better half doesn't see it! Maybe, she won't care as the new Odyssey I got her two months ago is still eminating residual benefits. That "new car" smell continues to permeate the air .............
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Chances are, if you thought they made you a ridiculous offer for your trade, they were probably thinking you wanted a ridiculous amount of money for it.

    I too would like to know what it is.

    Like Bill said, if cars like yours are selling at auction for 2500 below book (as many do) a dealer can't pay you more than that for it, especially if the deal on the new car was a skinny deal to begin with.

    Try selling it yourself and see what happens.
  • bravocharlie1bravocharlie1 Member Posts: 14
    The trade is a 97, Jeep GC,I just asked for bottom blue book (wholesale)on the trade, even though its in excellent condition, low miles and I detailed it out just prior to taking it in. I really don't want to hassle with the "sell it yourself thing". Trying to get it all done at one time. Prior to making the offer, I checked around at other used GC of the same year with higher mileage etc at other dealers and found them selling for middle book.

    The dealers initial offer on the trade was half of low book, then he started to come up on it. I got a call from a different sales manager the next day and lowered my asking price and so was told he would call me back but never heard from him again. I kind of thought they were expecting me to keep coming down on it because they perceive I really want the new one.

    I understand that this is business and to ask a ridiculous price for my car doesn't make sense in trying to make a deal. However, I did my research and looked around at the same veh of this type selling on the same and other dealer lots in area and took into consideration the dealer wants to make a profit on the used car sale also. I have no problem with that, but to have them tell me my car is worth half of what they have one selling for on their lot is a little tough to swallow.

    I'll try the real world trade-in values to just to cover all the bases...
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I responded over there. If they hit the car at $5K or so...

    I'd flat-out walk.

    Unless its' been previously hitor something...

    Bill
  • shogun1313shogun1313 Member Posts: 17
    What is your vehicle selling for locally, in you local classifieds? Whatever the average asking price is remember the dealershp is coming off it by at least a couple of grand becauee they can't afford to buy it from you at a retail price and then sell it for zero profit.

    Also, unless the vehicle you are trading in is in good demand and offset by low market supply then the dealership will have to seemingly low-ball you because they are looking to break-even on the trade-in at the auto auction--and those cars are sold pretty low for quick disposition.

    Not trying to defend the dealership of auto sales practices at all, but if you firmly feel you vehicle is worth getting a certain amount of money for there is nothing keeping you from selling it on your own. Heck, if the car is in great shape, highly desirable, and worth every penny, you should not have any trouble posting it in the local paper, traderonline.com, etc. and be done with it.

    No dealership is 'reaquired' to take a trade, and they are not going to give you what you want unless either your expectations come down or they change the color of money and increase the price of the car you are buying. This of course being aside from trade-ins that are in high demand with low supplies.

    So, go sell the car yourself and see what you can get. If you acknowledge that the dealreship 'must' buy a trade-in for below retail to break-even or for profit then they can only do this by buying it below retail.

    So, you play the sales person and advertise and sell. Good luck! BTW, I believe the 'online' version of autotrader.com (part of traderonline) allows free postings. Have you tried to seel your current car yourself?
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Member Posts: 298
    I heard somewhere that Chrysler has about 10,000 Cherokees and Grand Cherokees coming off lease every month. The things are everywhere and the new body style has made the previous model much less desireable.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    JGC's are currently VERY soft in the marketplace but half of book isn't right either.

    Around here they are getting hit at 2000-2500 below low book. They go begging at the auctions...sorry.

    As mvargo said there are currently a bunch of these coming off lease and the market is flooded.

    They are also gas guzzlers. Not a good thing right now.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    judging from the 2 my golf partner has had, they ain't exactly the most reliable machine that rolled off the assembly line...

    -Chris
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    ....which is why I traded in my '99 Expedition with 5 months left on the lease (residual 22k, probably worth 18-19K wholesale) on an '02 Explorer.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    He mentioned its a 2WD. These are completely SALEPROOF in many parts of the country and not very popular in the rest of the states.

    That explains it.

    And, Chris, you are correct, as these JGC's age they usually become a money pit.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Down here in FL a 2WD is weak.

    A 4WD is saleproof.

    Bill
  • hiwaysanityhiwaysanity Member Posts: 216
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    We had a salesperson from a Jeep dealership in today helping his daughter purchase her first new car. He told me that returning jeep owners can add up incentives on new jeep GC to $6000. This type of incentive does nothing but destroy resale values...mix that with the huge numbers coming off lease, $2.00 per gallon gas and resale values plummet..IMHO, A $6000 incentive isnt a rebate its bribery.

    Rich
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