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Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
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That's an interesting thought. Could criminal charges be brought against them at Lithia Ford? I know in the state of Florida if someone who is out right mentally incompetent, mentally retarded for example, they could be charged with robbery if their mental compacities were so obvious.
"A spokesman for Lithia said the company has tried to settle the dispute. 'Lithia has been willing to resolve this issue from the beginning, and we are still willing to unwind this transaction; all we have asked is that Mr. Baxter or a legal representative sign the necessary paperwork,' said spokesman Dan Retzlaff in a prepared statement."
What the dealership did to make it right I don't know but it does state that the dealership has tried to do something.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Read/reread both of the links posted earlier. The dealership was going to give him TRADE-IN-VALUE for the Focus. And not return his RAV-4. Do you think this is equitable?
How in the world--and why are you taking sides with this dealership? I frankly cannot understand this. But, please read/reread the links to get your facts straight. Here you are defending the dealership, and you don't have the facts!
How in the world--and why are you taking sides with this dealership?
I am not taking sides with the dealership. Someone said that they could not understand how any jury could side with the dealership. I reply to that was that if it came out that the dealership tried to rectify the error and the jury starts to think that the family is just gold digging the jury could very well surprise you.
Now I do not know what the dealership offered the family, just that they did and the family turned it down.
I am not trying to defend anyone just trying to be objective, if you have bothered to read my other posts on this subject you would know that I am not a friend of this dealership.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A155271
1.) this isn't the first vehicle that the gentleman has bought from the store, it's his third ... and there was never a problem or a question on the Explorer or the Rav .. there was no hint of family members, no questions or calls .. as a matter of fact, he was smart and savvy enough negotiate a $600 over cost deal on the Rav, thats the reason for the overallowance.
2.) when the son got involved (-on the phone-) they had no idea who they were talking with, so they pulled the deal and went over all the figures with him and told him he was right ... so they asked him to come to the store (*with the proper paperwork*) bring Dad, the Focus and ~ "if" everything is what "he says" it is, they will swap the cars and the $$ and call it a day.
3.) in the meantime, no Focus, no Dad, no papers, no son and no conversation with the original buyer (being the Dad).
4.) a few hours later they get a fax from another stranger (the daughter) that states "she's" the guardian of the estate and the dad doesn't have the mental ability to purchase a vehicle --- fine, no problem .. so they asked "her" to come to the store (*with the proper paperwork*) bring Dad, the Focus and ~ "if" it's everything she says it is, they will swap the cars, the money and she can sign all of the proper paperwork and call it a day.
5.) when she calls back, she doesn't want the Rav or the Focus anymore .. she wants to bring the Focus back and get a check for $32,000 --- in the meantime, no Focus, no Dad, no papers, no son, no daughter and no conversation with the original buyer (being the Dad).
6.) all the paperwork, all of the recorded conversations were sent to the home office and things sit as they do.
After all this time, no Focus, no Dad, no papers, no son, no daughter and no conversation with the original buyer (being the Dad).
Maybe it's the kids that need to have a guardian ..l.o.l...
Terry.
PS: the Rav was worth $17,0 .....
Even so, I am still wondering why the Ford dealership did the swap deal in the first place. Even if the buyer had paid just $400 over invoice for the RAV-4, and not the $32,000 as sometimes reported, it still wouldn't have been a fair trade for the Focus.
or DL away from a elderly grandmother" routine.....
Heartache and hassle...She fought us from every turn!
Nothing anyone could do with DMV etc. because of NO
accidents and she passed the eye tests.
Disable the car and she called AAA.
She continued to drive until she had a severe accident.
Spent her last 9 years in a nursing home............
SAD....................
I'm not sure exactly what happened here but I do know that Yellow Journalism is alive and well!
What the dealership did after the sale won't get them into trouble. What they did before the sale will. They got caught trying to pull a "fast one"... so of course they are going to try to make amends.
The big question is how much the Rav4 was worth at time the old man bought it. You stated the Rav was worth $17,000...is that the trade in value? That's a brand new Rav4 with 34 miles. Edmunds list invoice price on a base Rav4 as around $20,000. So, he probably paid at least around $23k with taxes. That he would be losing 9k, on the deal, instead of 19k is still pretty bad. The old man was so smart to negotiate $600 over cost for the Rav4 ? Dementia/Alzhiemers doesn't work like that...sometimes the porch light is on and sometimes it is off. In the beginning to middle stages that is. So, to joke about his kids needing the guardian may be offbase.
I know that there are two sides to every story (thanks for checking Terry). I've been in that situation before and I only believe 30% of what the newspaper says. They seem to always slant a story or get their facts mixed up.
A few years ago, my neighbors house caught on fire from a malfunction with their new Range Rover. The RR was in the garage and the fire spread to the house before anyone realized what was going on (the kids were inside).
Long story short, the newspaper reported damage costs, etc, the next day in the paper. It wasn't even close to what the "real" costs were or what was damaged.
The RR was a "Crispy Critter" after the fire.
Mark
That's the dirty part of this. Even if Terry's post is accurate from the dealers standpoint,(which I doubt) why did they do the deal? TERRY PLEASE CALL THEM BACK AND ANSWER THAT QUESTION? Don't they still have a $17,000.00 car they took from the gentleman for a $13,000.00 Focus? Further more, if there is pending litigation, why did they talk to Terry? Usually, it's "don't talk to anybody, this is going to court and we can't comment". Their motivation for talking to Terry is trying to "clean up" their image because they know it's being "blasted away" on this board. Again Terry, please call them back and ask them- WHY DID THEY DO THE DEAL? AND IS THE SALESMAN WHO DID IT-GOING TO BE THEIR SALESPERSON OF THE YEAR??
I'm sure the newspaper articles slanted the facts. And I'd bet the facts Terry posted were pretty one sided too.
Oh well, this sure was an interesting thread to read.
I'm sure the newspaper articles slanted the facts. And I'd bet the facts Terry posted were pretty one sided too."
Yes, I agree with you and what you said. The thing that bothers me is that there are some real "slime balls" in the car business. Yet, you have those who are "good guys" in it for a career trying to defend those slime balls. There is no defense for what happen to this old guy. AT the very least the dealer took advantage of him and made at a minimum $4,000.00. Maybe a lot more. Terry called him, but yet there is no mentioned of how they took advantage of this guy, only their so called attempts to make it good. WHY DID THEY DO THE DEAL IN THE FIRST PLACE AND TAKE THIS KIND OF ADVANTAGE?
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I'm obviously being facetious. This whole situation only serves to perpetuate the stereotypes of car salesmen as crooks. In this case, that's obvious. I'd think anyone would be able to tell this man has serious medical/psychological issues. And taking a Toyota with a few hundred miles as a trade in??? There's no way they can explain that away.
I wonder what has happened to their sales since this story was reported? I'd imagine between Ford's poor sales and this situation, it's a ghost town.
I match this plea on the part of the dealers that they can't be trained in mental health evaluation with the clearly visible warning in the 5/3 Bank lobby about if you're sending a large sum of money asking if it might be a scam. There are 3 paragraphs. I assume the TELLERS have been TRAINED to ask people who request a cash item out of their account if they may fit one of the 3 criteria.
I assume salesmen might also be trained to check for reasonableness of the transaction. A person, elderly, trading in a car with 1100 miles (And it has 6-700 dollars in damage that has to be repaired, if true and not just another markdown on the trade value, that would indicate impairment in driving from minor scrapes, bumps)does not pass the reasonable test. The salesman should have called in the store management to help evaluate since we don't want to train salespeople in mental health, grin.
Could it also have been apparent to the salesman he thought he was at the Toyota store initailly? Another sign of impairment.
It doesn't pass the smell test.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You've made it a point to call dealers everything from thieves to slime balls, and you've done this on various boards ..... personally, I don't care .. cuz' in 21 years I've heard every excuse from customers from "I didn't know I had a foreclosure" to "oh, was that my repo on the credit bureau.?" ... but I digress, so lets get back to the issue at hand.
The elderly gentleman didn't act incoherent, he wasn't incapable and he certainly wasn't unstable .. as a matter of fact, the reason why he got turned around was he had bought the Explorer from the Ford store less than 2 years before and he had been there a few times before for service and because some of his church members work there - and it's common for a coffee and a conversation in a small town ...... the funny part is, except for a stiff knee and some arthritis, nobody inside (or outside) of the church knew anything about any impairments.
Was the price too high...? .. first of all the "base" Rav had 45 miles on it - at purchase time .. and at the point of sale it had 1,100 and the reason for the sale was, it was too hard to get in and out for his passengers - just like the Explorer .... in the meantime, the Focus was $15 and some change and the dealer dropped $17 into the Rav with it needing $600/$700 of paint and body work on the passenger side ... sounds like nobody got a trip to Cancun on this one.
The most important thing .. the dealer only wanted someone, anyone -somebody- anybody to bring the vehicle, the proper paperwork, with the proper legal person and sign the proper paperwork and it would have all been done and "over with" in about 32 minutes, but not $32,000 .... I guess the son and the "guardian" feel they have a better plan with Dad's money ...
If it makes you feel any better Chuck, no matter how "right" the dealer might be - they will be found "wrong' .... no matter how right they are ....
Terry
If this incident puts some "safeguards in place" either here or elsewhere, then so be it. There were "red flags" in place in regards to this gentlemens behavior and they should have been noticed. As a previous poster said, "This doesn't pass the smell test!"
I guess the son and the "guardian" feel they have a better plan with Dad's money ...
IMO, this is one of the worst things you hear about out there.... Greedy adult kids that want their old-and-ready-to-die parents to keep all their money so they will get more inheritance. You'd really hope that isn't the case in this situation, but you bring up a good point....
Edmunds may not be perfect, but they are right on when it comes to BMW's holdback. Go check it out for yourself.... Give BMWNA a call.... Call some dealers.... Call some of your old associates from when you were selling... Do some research and get back to us....
If that is what you think, then you are mistaken. Sometimes in this life, we have to pay a severe penalty for mistakes we made.
For example, if I rob a bank and get caught, I can't just give the money back and hope all will be forgotten. Don't work that way, Terry.
The dealer took advantage of the old guy. Because of the publicity now and in the future, they are going to suffer a lot. The public will not forget about this story and it will definitely hurt their reputation and, of course, their sales.
Is it fair for the whole dealership and all the staff to suffer because one customer was treated poorly? Well, it doesn't matter what is fair. I'm simple telling it like it is.
Did the elderly guy go in with battery trouble or not? The dealership is stating something entirely different. I too thank Terry for calling the dealer. But after all the press, does anybody think it's beyond the dealer to "back peddle?" I can see it now, old sick guy mistakenly pulls in to Ford dealership with some sort of electrical issue on his Toyota. Some (fill in the blank)sales person says, "We can fix you right up! Let's face it, this guy was sick enough where he had to be in a "assisted living" type of arrangement. The dealer is stating "oh he was fine... he was normal. He was a savvy negotiator". And now the dealer is trying to cover his tracks talking with Terry.
The media wants to sell stories, papers and air time... they will slant anything for a buck!
Again, thanks Terry for "enlightening" us on more of the facts.
Mark
....the facts according to whom????
It seems that the old guy did pull into Ford dealer by mistake because he was confused, and he did business there before.
The salesman probably knew the guy and struck up a conversation. The old guy complained about the RAV4 and the salesman offered to trade it in for the Focus. Wholesale value of RAV4 was 17K and they swapped it for 13K Focus. Did the salesman take advantage of the old guy? You bet!
Now that the situation has blown up in dealer’s face, they are willing to unwind the deal. However, the daughter knows that she’s got the dealer in a compromising position and is trying to squeeze the dealer for 32K.
There is enough blame to go around. However, the dealer deserves the negative publicity that they are getting for taking advantage of the old, confused guy.
One thing is for sure, I would believe Terry before I would believe a newspaper article.
In the end, we'll see which facts were true, which ones were missing, and which ones that were made up.
Mark :surprise:
See, the one thing everyone kinda looses site of ...
All the son, daughter, guardian, the "whatever" had to do was to take the car back, bring the proper paperwork, sign off and get the keys and go home -- and you and I wouldn't be having this conversation .l.o.l.. thats also the part that really doesn't pass the smell test ..
So maybe next week they'll try dumping some hot coffee on dear ol' Dad and they can sue Mcdonalds ..... I hear Rio is nice this time of the year.
Terry
No doubt it could hurt in the short run...but we all know that many consumer don't care about a bad reputation if they can save $50 over the quality dealer up the road.
How many times have we all read stories about the crooked dealer who cheated a customer only to be rewarded with a sale??? We read these stories every day on Edmunds. I suspect 3 months from now the dealer is doing whatever they want to do and consumers have long forgotten the news story.
We have a dealer in our market that manages to get on the legal page of automotive news a few times a year and they are usually featured on the local news during slow news times to show how bad dealers can be.....meanwhile they maintain the status of being the highest volume single point in the state. Year after year. Their bad reputations seems to attract sales.
Don't be so sure about that. Any settlements like this are usually sealed.
We had a dealer near the city here that used a Superman outfit to do his ads. He was a tired old sports player; that impressed some buyers around the city.
He kept getting into the legal and news sections for his treatment of customers. He didn't last long-about a year. One day all the cars were gone off the front lot.
He had another store near Cincinnati where he had someone else do the Superman ads. Too funny.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is what they told you...after the Fact!!
The link says mine; the last paragraph says Chuck
>If it makes you feel any better Chuck, no matter how "right" the dealer
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'LL BE THE FIRST IN LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!
The dealer says the RAV4 is now sold.
What did he turn it for?
Sit around the fire, have some egg nog with family and friends, and forget about any potential tricks for awhile. I've got a lovely concoction of Crown and Butterscotch if you want to drop by
Merry, Merry, one and all!
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