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Chevrolet Cavalier



  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Guys, guys...the Cavalier is a 20 year old platform and a seriously dated design. Any new Opel Corsa/Astra blows the J-cars out of the water and then some.

    Its time to move on.
  • joe3891joe3891 Posts: 759
    Yes but i will miss the cheap parts.$20 for a new water pump.
  • dweezildweezil Posts: 271
    Griped about the Beetle and it's ancient design going on for years. In fact that element was a selling point.
    No one is denying that the current Cavalier design [ extensively updated in 94 ],is behind the times. Personally I don't find the benefit of chasing technology for technology's sake or newness for newness sake so you can be "up to date" is worth the cost in complexity and aggravation when the time comes to make repairs or replacement." Much like "kitchen needs updating" on the home shows.The cupboards still hold things the same way, the appliances still cook the same way, or cool the same way. After awhile you have to wonder: "Who will be the beneficiary of the "update"[me or the neighbors?] and at what cost for that benefit over what works right now?" In other words:who is the gourmet kitchen for if you never bother to cook?
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    Back then, cars weren't as technically sophisticated and solidly built as they are today. Maybe that's a reason why. Also, the Beetle was an American icon. I hardly think of the Cavalier as equivalent in that respect.
  • joe3891joe3891 Posts: 759
    have the Cavalier like it is than just another German car.
  • dweezildweezil Posts: 271
    That wasn't really the point. The point was about the alleged "improvements" made in the name of "sophistication" that add complexity and cost.
    People don't much have the opportunity to be like the people in the ads with wide open spaces and wind in the hair good weather.Most driving is the daily shuttle to and from work, the supermarket, the mall, stuck in commuter traffic or surface street battles, or sitting in drive through.Then the "refinement" and "sophistication" really are just water cooler bragging points in an office pissing contest.:-}The Cavalier while not an "icon" certainly is as simple as you will find these days.
    Just an aside, the current Cavalier owes itself more to the last generation Grand Am/Achieva/Skylark than it does the original; itself having spawned the 85 and on Somerset[Skylark], Grand Am,and Calais and later 88 and up Corsica/Beretta "N" cars. The 95 and up Cavaliers were then based on the more up to date "N" platform though still called "J". The only thing left from the original are some stampings for the cowl and a few other pieces.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    The Cavalier needs to be updated, so that it can sell without $2500 rebates. To most small car buyers, the car is a joke.

    Best to buy two J cars, so there is a spare when one of those "cheap" parts goes out.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I think they meant cheaper to replace parts are better. If the parts in the Cavalier were better, it would sell without heavy rebates and it would also have a better reliability record.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    for GM, I feel the Cavalier is just an embarrassment. GM is capable of so much, but yet they continue to stretch the live of the J-cars. The market is really passing by GM in this segment. I think the Vauxhall/Opel replacement would be a great advancement over the current Cavalier. And if parts cost are a concern, just get a used car. You obviously not concerned about a warranty if you're paying for parts.
  • It sounds like a few of you are looking to the future Cavalier to be something they're not and were never intended to be. The Cavaier was always intended to be a simple, reliable form of transportation... nothing more. Most people purchasing a Cav don't buy it because it's the car of their dreams. They buy it as a starter car, a good reliable means of transportation, something to evenually move up from. The Cav is excellent in those areas. Those are looking to make it something more than that have probably reached the point where it's time for them to step up into a different auto.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    While the Cavalier is getting real old, it was the second best selling car in Canada after the Civic last year. Cavalier was the best selling car for 6 or 7 years here but GM has let the car stagnate and hence Honda took over top spot 2 years ago. Cavalier replacement should be a top priority for Lutz and the boys. That said, the Saturn ION looks to be where GM is concentrating efforts now for the fall release.
  • dweezildweezil Posts: 271
    It's really a philosophical attitude about the purpose of a vehicle.It's not going to make you sexy if you are not, give you a life if you don't have one, make people believe you have money when you don't.
    I guess "most" small car buyers aren't taking advantage of the 2500 dollar rebates, are uninterested in the standard air conditioning,CD player,ABS,superior rust proofing [galvanized on both sides to the roof],and other features. So many consider the Cavalier a 'joke' that Chevrolet STILL sells 200-300,000 of them a year.
    Oh yeah.....and all 4 million of them that have been sold were all junk.
    The assumption that because the next design may [or may not according to an earlier post re: Rob Lutz] come from GM/Germany will be "superior" is questionable.Not only does "new" not necessarily equal 'better', Opel does not have that hot a rep. for 'reliabilty' in Europe or [as witness the Catera and Saturn "L'] in the US. And unless they've driven the Catera [and in which case you would be comparing apples to oranges], most of the posters making this claim of "superiority" [simply because everyone assumes anything European is 'better'],have never driven an Opel of ANY kind unless it was a CHEVETTE,PONTIAC LEMANS or an ISUZU I-MARK from the early 80s.Not exactly sterling examples of fine European design.
    And I have still not read a plausible explanation of how "new" equals "better".
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    The PONTIAC LEMANS and the ISUZU I-MARK were built in Korea and Japan.

    Cavaliers have to sell with $2500 rebates to high risk buyers, how long can they do this? With the low resale, I am sure most of the buyers will be upside-down in their 60-72 month loans. Also, most of the "4 million sold" are recycled steel now.

    A friend has a 1999 that he can't wait to get rid of and it drives like a 1982 Chevette.

    People looking for "simple, reliable transportation" are turning to imports such as Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, and Kia faster then water over Niagra Falls. And, they are breaking sales records without $2500 rebates!
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Kia and Hyundia are offering lots of deals to sell. Maybe not $2500, but those cars are already cheaper anyway. Corolla has had high incentives also, but I think that's because they are clearing them out to make room for the new 03 Corolla.

    BTW.. Have had a 99 Cavalier on lease and it's been fine. Only problem was a bad shock fixed under warranty.
  • adc100adc100 Posts: 1,521
    But as someone on this board, But the face is that it is good economical solid transportation. I don't own one but my son does. Its a '97 and it took him through his last couple of years of college-many road trips to and from Akron Ohio to Harrisburg Pa. With no problems. And although he can well aford to get rid of it now, he is attached to it. It has 65K miles with not a lick of trouble. I get to drive it once in a while and is actually fun to drive (5 speed). GM has laughed all the way to the bank on this car line for years.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    Well, I am betting that the car will not be the same in 5 years or so. They so got some changes up their sleeve, I just want to know when and what will happen.

    One good change is the EcoTec engine!
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    The Ecotec is a fine motor.
  • homerkchomerkc Posts: 113
    The issue isn't that the next Cavalier must be developed in Germany to be good. It's just that small cars in Europe are common, and big sellers. Thus, GM has already committed a LOT of money to develop those cars for the European markets. That done, why not use that investment to produce a small car here? If a well designed, thoroughly modern platform is available from Germany or anywhere else in the GM empire, why not use it? If GM can avoid more development cost, they can keep the price down on the car they sell here.
  • dweezildweezil Posts: 271
    BTW, there are STILL hundreds of thousands of old Cavaliers on the road. "Most" people and "most" Cavaliers and "most" buyers.......makes you wonder where these statistics are coming from..................
  • dweezildweezil Posts: 271
    Pontiac Lemans as well as the Chevette were all OPEL designs and probably as close to having driven an Opel as you'll ever get, regardless of where they were made.Hardly world class designs.So to assume improvements is a little premature. The Focus was to be an improvement over the Escort and it's been recalled how many times??? 5,6 or 7/
    The Eco-Tech is already available in the current Alero and Grand Am as well as the Saturn L Series and will be soon in the Cavalier.
    I do not disagree that the design is long in the tooth, and GM should be brought up on charges for only adding content instead of constantly improving the design. It is after all, according to the car rags I've read,GMs biggest passenger car seller and for many of them the first GM vehicle they've owned. Not a good idea to spend ridiculous amounts of development money on overlapping and duplicated truck product, while letting a popular first time buyer choice languish, especially when they might even be convinced to MOVE UP to one of those vehicles.
    And what in H*** is wrong with getting a discount off the selling price??? Only in re: to the Cavalier could someone see that as a "fault"!!! Outrageous. Sort of like the high school kids making fun of the kid with the K-mart sweater.As if paying too much for an item gave you taste and sophistication! Really screwed up priorities. Paying MORE is NOT good.Why else would a book like "Paying Retail Is Stupid" be so popular?
  • homerkchomerkc Posts: 113
    Dweezil, I am expecting the next Cavalier to be as big a bargain as the current one. I expect it to be less expensive to buy than Civic and Corolla, and to be just as roomy, fuel efficient, fun to drive, etc. I expect this because it is the car Chevrolet sells as a price leader to attract new car buyers. The rest of us (those who have bought a lot of cars and have choices) just benefit from the deal. I also expect it to be roomy, well equipped, reliable, quiet, and cheap to own. If Chevrolet hits that mark, they can compete with Civic and Corolla in the minds of many customers, not just those shopping price. And if they do that, they are a world class player. I think that's what they want to be.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    The Cavalier is an unsafe tin can. If you want to drive around in a 20+ year old design, go ahead be my guest.

    For the rest of us, we are looking forward to the 2004 Chevrolet Astra that should help GM re-ignite the samll car segment that they abandoned long ago...around 1981.

    Roger Smith, the GM CEO known as the bean counter of the first degree, is responsible for much of the maladies that still affect GM to this day. This individual is the craftsman behind the embarrasing J-Body cars and all its brilliant derivatives such as the Cadillac Cimarron, which was the LOWEST point GM and Cadillac could ever get to in the industry.

    I don't want a 20 year old unsafe and dubious piece of junk. I want a WORLD CLASS safe, reliable, modern, high quality and reliability and enjoyable to drive Opel Astra in my driveway.

    Some of you seem not to have been to Europe in recent years. I have seen/driven the current Euro Astra and it is 1 million light years away and then some from the Crapalier.

    Enjoy your Crapaliers because GM is shelving this antique relic very, very, very soon.
  • joe3891joe3891 Posts: 759
    more money and buy a good car,don't be cheap.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    Unfortunately, I have read some information from auto insiders on other forums that suggests that the Cavalier won't be replaced until 2005 or 2006.

    Following is an article I read describing GM's small car plans for the next few years, based upon a GM presentation to financial analysts on 1/10/2002:

  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Cavalier replacement is likely 2+ years away. Saturn ION is your best bet coming this fall.
  • dweezildweezil Posts: 271
    also appeared as and had input from Opel/GM Europe and were [and have been] built all over the world including Germany. See "The Rise and Fall Of The American Automobile Industry" by Brock Yates, which details the development story of the J car.
    There is nothing posted here that has not been untrue in most cases. It also does not make the idea that simply because it comes from Europe, it's automatically a world beater, and the examples I have given prove that. And itr also doesn't change the truth of what I have said.
    I am sure it is true that the Next Gen. Cavalier will be be vastly "improved". My point is that the current example does what it is supposed to do inexpensively and efficiently.There are those out there though, who cannot have an objective discussion about this car without making unsubstantiated claims such as:"it's a 20 year old design which it is NOT [and which was explained in some detail several posts back, do these things not get absorbed?] or "my friend has one and it's a POS".Perhaps I'll go onto the VW Jetta or New Beetle forums and post the same statement about my friend's Rabbit.There's no credibility in that.
    There is a definite element of snobbery in reference to the Cavalier [or any inexpensive car]and that seems to hold true for any item made available to the masses. The socio- anthropologists have been sneering at the suburbs for years. People made fun of the Model T, the Beetle as well [which was out of date the minute it started production]and any other item so called "commoners" embraced.Regardless of the fact that IT WORKS!!!!
    I have gone onto the maintenance forum and read the posts for the New Beetle and Jetta. Fine German engineering, but I've never seen the kind of problems referenced THERE, or the arrogance of the dealerships shown to those with problems. Haven't heard of any 2.2s burning oil and needing rings at 15,000 miles and on and on.I thought if you paid more you got better quality???? I thought Eurodesign was superior.......I guess all those "cheap parts" on Cavaliers are less worthy than the expensive ones that so many seem to be replacing on the VW sites.
    I am matching absurdity for absurdity. Homerkc has summed up the reasons for a new and "improved " Cavalier very well.
    BTW: The Cimarron may have been a really lousy Cadillac.....but it was a GREAT Cavalier! :-}
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    "Pontiac Lemans as well as the Chevette were all OPEL designs" They were based on them, but watered down and built much cheaper.

    The LeMans was based on the 80's Kadette, which in Europe was considered a good car, but Deawoo made the LaMans cheaply and we know the rest of the story.

    The Chevette was a RWD Kadette and wasn't so bad until it was outclassed by competitors by 1980.

    My opinion is that the Cavalier needs up dating, if they keep the J platform, then it should have new chassis components and other parts to make it more solid.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The focus has now been recalled a total of EIGHT times since its introduction in 2000.
    If quality is "Job. #1" at Ford, I cringe at the thought of what Jobs #2 and #3 are.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    VW just announced a recall campaign, but I don't see any lynch mobs as the Focus has gotten. The recalls fixed problems and by now should be done.

    Back to topic..
  • dweezildweezil Posts: 271
    just keep in mind that it doesn't necessarily mean the design is good and to replace with something troublesome is not exactly "improvement".
    There is a market for cars that simply get the job done. I hope the next generation Astra/Cavalier is a good one, but I have my suspicions that no matter HOW good the next one is; it STILL will not satisfy many of the posters who have an irrational hatred for them.
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