High Performance Luxury Sedans

pablo_l · May 2003

Well, the Cayenne is something else entirely. I have no driving experience whatsoever in one, nor do I know anyone that has or is about to have one (the $70k+ car acquisition curve has slowed down a lot among people I know). It seems a wonderfully irrational proposition, even though I can imagine Porsche purists would like to gag... heck, don't forget that building Panzers in WW2 is prt of the Porsche legacy, pure sporting background it's not! Porsche should offer the cayenne in Afrika Korps sand yellow to appease those purists. :-)

paulchiu · May 2003

That's a great point; as Porsche is only offering conservative 'saloon' colors currently. No hot yellow or racing reds. I would have order a yellow Turbo; but brilliant silver?

merc1 · May 2003

More on the CLE:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6041&sid=17- 8&n=158

M

msiseng · May 2003

Read your link, Chavis10. The V-8 pushing 400 hp on the Mercedes..whoa! Now that will be a car to drive if Chrysler does not manage to ruin it!

It will be nice to see what Jaguar offers to compete.

kkops · May 2003

Is anyone aware of a production or timing for an E55 4 matic model?

Thanks

merc1 · June 2003

With that kind of power I seriously doubt, even before the E55 4Matic was only sold in Germany.

M

kkops · June 2003

Merc1,

Thanks for the input. It's a shame, but living in central NJ, it is difficult to purchase a vehicle that works for 3 seasons and is then garaged. the e430 4matic I have works like a charm but really want some more power like the E55. Do you believe that Renttech could be a viable alternative. They claim increases in BHP from 285 to 400.

thanks.

merc1 · June 2003

Yes...Renntech will build whatever you want as long as you bring the $$. I'm sure they have an upgrade packaged for the E430 4Matic....because AMG did sell a 4Matic version of the previous E55. The parts for such an upgrade should be readily available.

M

kkops · June 2003

Merc1

I was wondering if you or anyone has had any experience with Renntech or Brabus or any other upgrade shop and any comments other than location (West Coast vs East Coast) that you could share with me regarding the experience you had.

Thanks

Kevin

merc1 · June 2003

I haven't had any firsthand experience with the tuner shops. You might want to present that question on the News and Views side of the house. Specifically ask the host over there, Mr Shiftright. There are some MB guys on here that might know, v12power, mbnut, mbdriver, and some others. They usually are on the E-Class board or in various News and Views topics.

The only Brabus shops I know of are in just those places (Cali & Florida) What about a 2004 E500 4Matic?

M

jwilberding · June 2003

I am looking at the low to mid 40k range and need an automatic so the M5 (my first choice)is not an option. I also like the xjr and can get really good deals on them due to high depreciation, but my wife (who will also be driving it) feels it's too cramped feeling. The 740 would have to have the M sport package and could either be short or long wheelbase from what I understand in '01. Of the various cars I found, the s8 seems like the best deal AND a little more unique.

Here in So Cal, Bimmers and MBZ's are everywhere.
I have owned all 3 makes, but sold my '00 s4 shortly after buying it for a 911. I know what I am getting...a big sedan that won't see any track time. It will however make trips to Lake Arrowhead and Big Bear (in the Mtns for those out of So Cal)

I searched the threads and rather than starting a new one this seemed the most appropriate place to post. Would love to hear any and all opinions and experiences.
thanks.

merc1 · June 2003

You can get a S8 for the mid-forties??? I'd like to know the details on that one. IF that is possible and the car is correct (low miles, been checked, certified etc) then by all means go the S8.

M

kkops · June 2003

Merc1

Thanks for the info. A 2004 E500 4matic just wouldn't be powerful enough. I have an E430 4matic already which drives very nicely. The jump would be marginal. I really want the effect of an E55 in a 4matic version.

merc1 · June 2003

Point taken and fully understood. Good luck. Since Mercedes has been a little more open to bringing all their models here, writing MBUSA about bring over an E55 4Matic (if they do one) wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just a thought.

M

zaxxon1982 · June 2003

I never got on a waiting list for an E55 AMG and now want one. Are they available at or near MSRP? Or am I looking at paying a premium if I want one now? If so, how much?

rollie · June 2003

I'm getting calls (about once a week) about available e55s (2003s) here in California (Northern and Southern). I haven't negotiated a price yet (because what I think I want is a navigation system which means 2004 model - and that's assuming I decide to spend that much $ in this economy) but when I asked if they were charging over MSRP I was told no. As great as the e55 is I just don't the market is brisk for kilobuck cars these days...

Thanks.

-rollie
rdollie@att.net

merc1 · June 2003

Oh my god...rollie (my favorite Volvo person) where have you been?? You're looking at Mercedes' now, no more Volvos?

M

paulchiu · June 2003

My NY dealer wanted 5K over MSRP. I said Goodbye. With the iritations I endured for 3 years with the 2001 S500, I am not paying over MSRP for (even) an E55.

Going for something close to invoice like a Jag, BMW, or Lexus instead.

vetteaholic · June 2003

I'm considering buying a '98 XJR and I'm looking for comments from current owners. Pros? Cons? After a test drive, I'm sold! I'm replacing a Vette (need more space), so XJR owners speak up!

paulchiu · June 2003

They are selling 2003 XJR near or even below invoice; what's left in the 2003's, that is.

rollie · June 2003

Hi merc1. I don't know what I'm doing anymore! I've got a couple of high pressure turbo Volvos now and really like the S60R I tried out. However, the idea of the e55 really appeals to me after trying out the e500 (I still haven't tested the e55 yet.)

More to the point, I'm not sure that I can afford a bike let alone an e55 anymore! My wife just entered the real estate and notary businesses and all my money is flowing rapidly in the wrong direction!(And I need to buy her a SUV - almost certainly a XC90 T6 or Executive.) I hadn't anticipated this at all. I guess the good thing is that since we live in South Orange County, CA the Mrs. is almost assured of making good compensation eventually (it just takes awhile to build referral business I'm learning.) Actually since I work in the semi-conductor industry now I'm thinking about getting a broker's license as a backup - semicon is not a kind place to be these days!

Meanwhile I'll continue driving the Volvos we have...for now

Thanks.

-rollie
rdollie@att.net

merc1 · June 2003

Well it's good hearing from you. Don't drive the E55 if you're not sure you can swing it, the car is addictive. Hope everything works out, good luck.

M

aki86 · June 2003

I was at a local dealership yesterday and saw a guy who got an excellent deal on an E55. I don't know how much he paid, but he bought one that was 'used' with only 140 miles on it. He flew in in the morning to buy it from the dealership in San Jose. You should've seen the smile on his face.

rgl70 · August 2003

Does anyone own one? What are your likes and dislikes about the car....i'm looking to buy one and need some educated advice from an owner. Thanks in advance.

fenn · August 2003

I drove an 04 XJR yesterday for an extended test drive. I was very impressed by the power, handling, and responsivenes....And the car still maintained the smooth quiet ride of a luxury sedan. Jaguar seems to have hit a home run. The only negative is that you really need to do a close look to distinguish the new '04 from the older version........

pablo_l · August 2003

I actually think the 04 looks nothing like the much svelter previous model. The old shape came with a price in (lack of) interior roominess, but some thought it worth it.

fenn · August 2003

...."I actually think the 04 looks nothing like the much svelter previous model"

Pablo is a very discerning Jaguar observer, but to the unabashed folks, I do not believe that it is so obvious....Virtually every review of the new car has noted the similar look of the new car to the Jags of old. Jaguar did a great job of making the totally new car look quite like an XJ from a casual glance.

shoes · August 2003

I just picked up a 2003 E-55. This is my fifth AMG product and it is the best. I also drive an SL55. The added stiffness of the sedan body makes the car more enjoyable to drive. This is the most impressive MB product I have yet owned. Build quality is outstanding and even the electronic brakes aren't as weird as in the SL55.

By the way, I mentioned that I did not like the brakes on my SL55 and my dealer insisted I bring the car in and have the pads and rotors replaced. I wonder what they know that I don't?

joyrider147 · August 2003

1991 BMW M5: What is the difference between the
American version and European version? Does the
american version have a speed limiter than the
European version? Or is it a different version
engine?

merc1 · August 2003

How has the SL55 been? Do you still have the C32 and CLK500, if so how have they been holding up? Did changing the rotors/pad change the brakes for you? I cannot grasp the concept of having so many AMG cars, lucky you!

M

jagboyxtype · August 2003

I totally agree with you on the new XJ's looks - it really looks quite different from the older model and it is noticeable when the two cars are not near each other. It's new size and different stance alone make it look totally different to me. When I first saw one, its added height reminded me of the tall shape found in those old British taxis.

If the media cannot pay enough attention to the cars it's covering to be able to easily tell apart two completely different cars, I think it just goes to show how much effort they don't put into their work at times. It's not like we're trying to pick-out every different body tweak between an X300 and X308 XJ, and even those aren't difficult at all. My question is how can someone not see the difference between the new and old XJ, even with a casual glance, as their proportions are even completely different?

fenn · August 2003

Sure, most of us who are car enthusiasts can spot the differences, but the general population does not easily discern the new car from the old. Despite the different contours and dimensions, the car conveys a similar look from a casual glance.

I saw this evidenced the other evening when a new 2004 XJ pulled up at the valet parking outside of a popular L.A. restaurant, and I was the only one in our group of three couples that noticed that it was a new 2004 XJ.

The fact is that Jaguar sought to maintain the XJ essence in the new car......And, they succeeded.

merc1 · August 2003

Well I'd have to say it's pretty much what Don is saying...you and I can tell the difference as we spent way too much time dealing with cars, but the average person might have trouble. I hear the same thing about different Mercedes models nowadays. It's only apparent that a C is not a S once you get to see the car up close and can gauge it's actual size. Oh well, prospective buyers will put the effort into telling the difference I suspect. Sometimes car mags come up with stuff like that when there really isn't much else to complain about, thats a good thing if that all they can come up with negative about the new XJ. I say if the design works keep it. Porsche's 911 is iconic for the same reasons. BMW is the one who changed for the hell of it and messed up, imo.

M

westcoast323 · August 2003

shoes, what did you pay for the E55--out-the-door?

pablo_l · August 2003

To me, the new XJ has just as many design similarities with the X-type and it does with the old XJ, and I don't say that necessarily as a negative.

From an elegance point of view, nothing in the current sedan landscape could touch the old XJ, even to the ignorant layman's eyes, because it was low, long and simply perfectly proportioned. of course, it did cheat: the price was an interior that was more GT than the exectuive sedan category it supposedly competed in.

The new XJ of course still has a distinctive design, but the interior room has come at the price of more mainstream and less elegant overall proportions. It is geometrically unavoidable that it looks a bit more bloated.

That said, when compared with the extremely clumsy shape of the new BMW 745, or the more sterile design approach of the Merc and especially Audi, the Jag still triumphs when it comes to elegance. Tradition is nice in luxury automobiles, and the Jaguar's visible hommage to its roots clearly makes the point.

But, personally, the old XJ is the only sedan I'd own. Well, I *did* own the XJR as my "techno-bubble-mobile" of choice, and it was a great grand tourer - I'd still very highly recommend it to those who don't feel they *must* ensure spacious accommodation for 4 at *all* times.

Interestingly, when the XK came out, I actually preferred the XJS. Which is interesting considering that the XK now is wiedly regarded as one of the micest designs on the road - I till felt the XJS was more distinctive, and that a more evolutionary approach -as they have done now with the XJ- would have been nicer. But that's just very personal opinion.

fenn · August 2003

As elegant as it may have been, I am tall, and the old XJ was never a car that I could consider due to it's cramped interior and low slung passenger compartment. This tight interior inside of a large heavy car never worked for me.

Jaguar needed to fix this, and they did a good job in keeping a Jaguar look, while improving space and ergonomics. I agree that the old car is more crisp and elegant, but they needed to create more space.

They did such a good job that that it looks like I may have to bite the bullet, and get myself a 2004 XJR. Damn.

pablo_l · August 2003

I am 6'1, and I found the XJR beautifully cozy, and not claustrophobic. But of course you couldn't seat anyone behind me unless they were willing to amputate their legs previous to entering their car. :-)

Can't go wrong with the XJR, old or new. Phenomenal car.

carging · August 2003

I am considering the purchase of a 2002 Mercedes E320. The manufacturer recommends premium gas, but I was able to use regular gas in my 6 cylinder 2000 Lexus ES300 on the advice of the mechanic) even though premium was recommended, with no problem. I would appreciate hearing from any 2002 E320 owners who use regular gas successfully, or anyone with any advice on this issue. Thank you.

pat · August 2003

Hi carging - I think your question will get more responses if you hop over to our ongoing Mercedes-Benz E-Class discussion and ask there. Just click on that link.

Welcome!

shoes · August 2003

I paid MSRP for my E55 which was around $83K plus taxes and licence of course.

westcoast323 · August 2003

thanks 4 the info, i might try to get an out-of-the-door price that under $90k.

commofficer · August 2003

Bought a new Chrysler Pacifica for the wife and kids. Love it but I want a "new" car. I can buy a used 1995-96 XJR for less than 15K. This seems like a great deal for a car that will take me to work and back and sit in the hot Oklahoma sun all day during the work week. Does anyone have any bad stories about the early XJR and why I should not buy one?
I love the new one but unfortunately, the funds needed to buy one go to more important, read kids, things. Any input from previous owners would be greatly appreciated.
Anything specific to look for when shopping? What fails on this car?

I could lease the new X-Type for the $279/mo as advertised but the used XJR is so tempting and much bigger inside.

Thanks for the help
Phil

pablo_l · August 2003

The XJR is a great car, you'll enjoy it. I'd cautio against thinking it is more spacious inside than the X-Type, because it truly isn't. It is big outside, surprisingly cozy inside.

And truly take into consideration that the XJR is very expensive in maintenance. If kids are the priority, justifying $2k on new tries every 10k miles ("normal", Jaguar told me) can be hard to justify.

It's a great car, though, just not as utilitarian as its appearance might lead many people to conclude (and the car magazines never mention the "other side" in their big HP sedan articles).

shoes · August 2003

I don't have the CLK 500 or the C 32 anymore, just the E55 and the SL55. Once you have this engine everything else seems slow.

The CLK 500 seemed very soft after I got the other two AMG cars. I have to say that AMG works magic on Mercedes. Everything is sharper- brakes, suspension, throttle response, transmission. Driving the C 32 killed my affair with the CLK.

The C32 is more of a boy racer experience, it never relaxes. The suspension is firm, the steering is firm, you always hear the whine from the supercharger. This is usually great fun, but I wanted something more mature.

Someone in my office asked me the other day how I decide which AMG to drive. The E55 is very laid back and can pass for just another E class if you want it to. I also love how AMG dresses up the interiors with better leathers. The SL55 can be driven mildly as well, but the agressive sounding exhaust always eggs you on. Believe it or not, I think the E55 handles better than the SL55, crisper turn in and feels lighter on its feet. The dealer changed my pads on the SL55 and the brakes are quiet now.

I could live with either car as a full time ride.

merc1 · August 2003

Thanks for the reply. I can only imagine what it must be like coming "down" from a SL55 or E55 to a C32 or a "mere" CLK500. Such a wonderful to dilema to be in. I can see why you'd feel the E55 handles better than the SL55, the E55 does have a slight weight advantage and the same torque as the SL55. I have to ask you whats next as a far as Benzes go, a CL65 or S55 or something along those lines?

Also, I'm glad to hear you're seemingly satisfied with your Benz products, I thought MB was going to loose you at one time.

M

shoes · August 2003

I am very devoted to AMG products at this point. The marque I have given up on at this time is BMW. I will wait until the Bangle line is replaced with something more traditional.

I think that between the E55 and the SL55, I am pretty well set for a while.

pablo_l · August 2003

Just curious - why 2 sedans? Why not the more usual sedan+sportscar combo? Personal preference? Granted neither of the 2 cars give anything away to sportscars performance-wise, but typically people with more cars go for less functional similarity. But then again, for all we know you have an SLR on order... :-)

jtatma · August 2003

Can anyone be so kind as to give me an honest opinion on a potential purchase? I have found a 1998 XJR with 17,000 miles. The asking price is $30k. Clearly the manufacturer's warranty has expired, except for rust of course.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

pat · August 2003

Two thoughts - check the Edmunds TMV by following the Used blue tab at the top of this page. Also, go ask the guys in Real-World Trade-In Values over in Smart Shopper. Read some of the messages there before you post so that you'll see the type of information they need from you to help.

Good luck!

shoes · August 2003

I don't have two sedans, the SL55 is a 2 seat convertible, and the E55 is the 4 door sedan. Performance on either is electrifying.

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