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What's the reason for this?
Is it listed in some other, special location?
Thanks,
Eric
Is that correct?
Thanks,
Eric
You can find a 2005 M5 Future Vehicle section at this link: http://www.edmunds.com/future/2005/bmw/m5/100286738/preview.html?- - tid=edmunds.f.mmindex.content.num5.0.bmw*
A friend of his is not having the same good fortune with a 2002 E55 which he has been trying to sell for a month in advance of his 2004 E55 arriving. He's dropped his price from $55k to $46.5k and, as of yesterday, still no takers. By comparison, a local Porsche dealer offered $53k for the M5 outright, whether or not he bought a Porsche. He thinks $57.5k is possible in a private party sale.
P.S. Both cars are mint with 35k+/- miles.
And, as for "blow away" performance, at what point does this become a bit ridiculous, especially for a 5 passenger sedan. The 2002 M5 gets from 0-60 in under 5 seconds and has lateral grip that compares to my S2000. I'm not sure how much better the E60 M5 will be, but I'd be more inclined to keep a 2002 E39 M5 than trade up in performance and down in style. Subjective, for sure, but a lot of others appear to share this opinion.
I do agree with your assessment as it would apply to the E55. As best I can tell, the new 2004 is a substantial improvement over the old in all categories. However, wonder how long it will be before it becomes usurped by an E65?
I was thinking it would be around $75-80K (E55,RS6).
I'm #1 on a waiting list, but the dealer said the MSRP might be around $120K!
If it is at that price, I think BMW will have a difficult time selling them.
If it is at that price, I think BMW will have a difficult time selling them.
But the 6 Series is $80K to start . . .
I have never owned a luxo vehicle but I sat in many being an auto nut. I was very impressed with the XLR
There was this little place we stoped where they make woodfire Salmon Pizza.
I believe a lady from New Zealand was baking. I envy you. Coming from one of the most beautiful places on the planet (Kenya) I must say California and the US in general is a very beautiful country.
Anyway, I am damn sure this was the M5 concept that's been shown at car shows around the world (not THE car, but one like it of course). I can only assume this car had just come back from desert testing in Arizona or something, and now was heading to the BMW North America HQ which I believe is in Irvine?
Unfortunately I didn't have a camera handy, nor was my car parked close enough for me to give chase. And I didn't hear the exhausts so I couldn't hear the V-10, if that's what it was.
The car comes prewired...antenna is on the trunk lid but looks ok.
The E55 will become the "E63" for 2007 most likely with a 600hp 6.3L V8. The next RS6 is supposed to have a 500+hp V10 from the Lambo Gallardo. What next?
M
However, I was equally dissapointed to read that, perhaps, a manual transmission will be dropped in favor of a 7-speed SMG unit. If true, that just about wipes my interest out. Please, no technical analysis as to why an SMG will produce better performance than this old man's ability to shift. No matter how much slower I am at shifting than BMW's computers, I want to DRIVE my sports sedan, not play some virtual reality game boy version with my thumbs. Period.
Unfortunately, SMGs and their ilk appear to be here to stay. Ferrari is projecting that their SMG system will be ordered in over 90 of some of their models. A Ferrari without a true manual is sacrilege. [Even the F1 manufacturers and drivers fought the recent rule change proposal to go back to true manual transmissions. Sad.]
In other words you don't give a darn, I enjoyed reading that.
M
But I don't think manual trannies are going away just yet or ever. Too many of today's kids are weaned on them and they are often the "low" option budget for many real-world cars.
What with a NEW TECHED-UP 10-CYLINDER ENGINE and NEW TECHED-UP TRANSMISSION, this car is going to be well over $100K. $120 sounds right. It's a freak car, sedan on steroids. It’s the rich kid in school who just has to have it all.
E39 M5s never looked so good now. This car will have staying power for quite some time and for many reasons.
Curious how the mere-mortal 5s and 3's will still offer 3 pedals. Also, when Porsche drops the manual transmission, then it's time to worry.
To all of you stick elite, get yourselves a real sports car and back it up with a low-priced, practical sedan for utility. Sport sedans just don't measure up when it comes to pure driving pleasure and all out fun. The sports car is the real prize for the sport driving enthusiast. And there's lots of stick out there that isn't going away just yet.
MR2
Miata
S2000
Boxster
911
Vette
Viper
NSX
SLK
Elise
The pickins are good. They all look better too. A Bangle-shrouded M5 with a super duper flakomatic automatic transmission? No thanks. I don't care if it could fly to the moon.
Hopefully Cadillac has learnt from CTS V wheel hop
M
If they made the Northstar a 6.0 up from the 4.6 it is now for V applications, or drop in the V12 they are building for the escalade V, they might have a chance. Alternatively, they can chop off two cylinders from the V12 to a V10, but with their current CTS,SRX,STS Sigma platform, I doubt there is enough space in the Engine bay for a V10.
So for now, the M5 rules the Horses party
M
If I wanted a fast shifting automatic to maximize drag racing performance, I can get a current AMG E55 with 516 ft lbs to go along with close to 500 horsepower. I seriously doubt the M5 will better the E55 in 0-60, 0-100, 0-150, 1/4 mile or any other measure any idiot with a heavy right foot (and $80,000) can achieve. However, if I want to "drive" the "ultimiate DRIVING machine", then for god's sake, let me do it, BMW! The M5 only has nominal more torque than a 545i 6-speed (another 15% +/-, I believe for around 370 ft lbs). If ever a sport sedan called for a 6-speed, it's one that has high horsepower, low torque and an 8,250 rpm redline. And that's been BMW's Motorsports past forte in the face of AMG's alternative to increase torque to supersonic levels.
For me, the new M5 could have been a spectacularly fun car to drive with a true 6-speed. Now I might need to buy another Honda S2000, as long as they don't do something stupid like swap it's 6-speed for a thumb controlled SMG.
Stupid move BMW. There are still some of us that have a left foot and want to "drive" your cars, you know. The previous M5 did just fine with ONLY offering a true 6-speed, as evidenced by considerably higher resale value than the automatic only E55. You are snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory with respect to this prospective buyer.
W210,
Do you still have your E55? If so how has the experience been?
M
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
I doubt if Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi or Jaguar will ever offer a true manual in their mid-level performance cars like the STS-V, E55, RS6 or S-Type R. I just don't see it, and they probably wouldn't sell here anyway. BMW on the other hand wears performance like a badge and their customers have been groomed to accept and now crave manuals.
bhill2,
Well most of that is true, but you still don't have the lever and the computer still decides and executes the "shift" for the most part.
M
The performance is nice of course, but I find myself also appreciating the various luxurious gadgets in the vehicle.
Things like ventilated dynamic seats, very useful telematics, navigation, upgraded stereo, and even the auto trunk closer. I hardwired an iPod to the auxiliary input to supply myself with a large music collection. The best part about the car is that you can drive it at 30% yet you still enjoy yourself very much.
After taking a 545i for an overnight test drive, I no longer take the upscale interior of an expensive sedan for granted. To me, the E-class AMG interior is really a step above the competition, much nicer than the 5 and the new A6, yet not tacky like the Lexus (with all the red or yellow shiny wood.)
And don't get me started about ergonomics. While I can really get my work done in the E55 as an mobile office, the same cannot be said of the iDrive in the new 5.
M
2. very faint squeak over bumps, dealer traced back to sunroof clip, replaced.
3. center front speaker buzzing when playing certain cello pieces, replaced.
4. aux port was not active (dealer forgot to turn it on during PDI).
5. auto trunk closer (truly great option) button occasionally not working, fixed.
The bottom line is, yes there were minor problems but they fixed them all.
I can't wait to see the comparos either and that all important first drive/roadtest from the U.S. mags.
w210,
A bunch of relatively minor things with your E55 huh. That is Mercedes biggest problem because I'm sure if you get a survey it won't be good for Mercedes.
M
The current E55 and future M5 are able to compete with the 911 Turbo in stoplight drag racing, and both are capable of sustaining speeds of 100+ mph over any legal limit in the United States. Personally, I think further escalation of the power war is not productive. I'd like to see the handling and "fun to drive" side of the equation further improved. I recently had the opportunity to drive the 545i 6-speed sport and, although it is very good by sedan standards, it did not match the handling and steering precision of my former $32k Honda S2000. Nor did the BMW 6-speed transmission shift as precisely and effortlessly as the little Honda's. I realize that this is a tall order for a 4,000 lb 5 passenger sedan. But I'd rather see some effort on the part of BMW's Motorsports and Mercedes AMG engineers redirected to that objective, rather than seeing who will be the first to break the 600, 700 and 800 hp barriers. Hell a Honda Formula 1 car "only" has 700+/- horspeower. But it's capable of pulling 3g's vs the 0.65 to 1.05 g's representing the range of an Isuzu Trooper to an Enzo. And the E55 and M5 are only in the upper middle of that rather unimpressive range. I believe there is room for handling improvement that would make my daily 35-40 mph drive through D.C.'s Rock Creek Park more enjoyable. I'd prefer this improvement over having to go to the Bonneville Salt Flats just to see the difference between the last M5 and the next one.
And, as I said before, the fact that the V10 M5 "only" has 380 ft-lbs of torque to go along with its 500+ horsepower is a potentially very good thing in my book. Made even better by the 8,250 rpm redline. But completely pissed away on me, if they only offer an SMG transmission. For the infititesimal increase in 0-60 performance the Game Boy inspired SMG might offer against my amateur old-fashioned hand and foot shifting, they have taken away 75%+ of the fun to drive factor for me. I would have never bought the former E55 against the former M5 for that very reason. Now I've got two lousy choices compared to the former M5 6-speed on the fun to drive front. And for what - to have me act like a stupid, immature high school kid at a stop light just to tell the difference between the old and new M5? I don't think so.
Sure BMW and Mercedes could build a sedan to match a S2000 in handling if they truly wanted, but it would ride like it had no suspension at all and wouldn't appeal to anyone but dedicated track folk and lets face it most of the people that buy these cars still are luxury car buyers for the most part or at least expect some luxury (reasonable ride comfort) in these cars.
M
I agree that the "supersedans" are indeed sedans and, as such, they have a broader duty than a dedicated sports car. But I'll somewhat stick to my position that 500 horsepower is enough, already. Perhaps an adjustable suspension system, like the ones popping up on Porsche and VW SUV's could be further engineered to provide both luxury and a more serious sport setting. I know Mercedes utilizes an airmatic suspension, but it could probably be developed further if the AMG guys got their heads out of the engine compartment.
Speaking of harsh, the S2000 wasn't. Sitting on 16" wheels with 55 and 50 series rubber, I didn't find the ride harsh except over serious potholes. No more so than our new Acura TL sitting on 17" wheels and 45 series tires. And probably less so than the "luxury" oriented E55 sitting on 18" and 40 and 35 series tires. Which gets back to my point, that, for the relative harshness of the former E55, I was not at all impressed with it's handling. The less harsh M5 handles much better, IMO. I have not yet had the opportunity to drive the new E55.
IMO, the S2000's "harshness" wasn't the ride, but the noise. My wife never got used to the sound of the engine and interior even when cruising on the highway. I didn't find it too objectionable, but it certainly wasn't as easy on the ears as an Acura TL or Mercedes E-class. Still, I wouldn't trade the 9,000 rpm 2002 model we had for the new 8,000 rpm de-tuned version. Earplugs are cheap. 9,000 rpm was unique. It still hurts a little to be driving down the road in our insulated cabin, listening to a digital music DVD, checking the 8" voice activated navigation system for directions, calling a restaurant on the Bluetooth phone and then seeing a Spa Yellow S2000 cruise by with it's top down. Oh well, at least our TL has a "real" 6-speed!
When I was talking about the S2000 I meant they made it more driveable/livable for everyday use, not just better riding. I didn't mean to imply that it had a rough ride.
I agree about the old E55 vs the old M5, they old M5 did handle better without the ride penalty according to most, though Road and Track did say the E55 handled better - a curious decision.
M
And to go a little further out on that limb, I am going to bet that fewer than one tenth of 1% of those that paid $6.50 to see the Fast and Furious will ever actually be able to afford an AMG or M car.
The Motorsport and AMG divisions clearly have performance as a priority, as they should. I would submit, however, that prospective buyers that can actually afford their cars have a different and broader definition of "performance" than those that can't. And if I were in charge of AMG or BMW, I'd make damn sure I focused my attention on the former.
As far as an S2000 matching up against a Z4, both are very good cars that achieve similar results using very different methods. The S2000 essentially has a half size Formula 1 engine. Low torque, 9,000 rpm redline (pre-2004) and perhaps the best 6-speed transmission money can buy. The Z4 uses a torquier ubiquitous engine that you can find in every vehicle they sell from the X5 to the 330i to the 530i. It gets the job done with power, but not as much sophistication, intensity or excitement. Similar comparison could be made between the chassis.
Was this a Super-Stock (your use of "SS") modified Buick? ;-)
I am quite certain he showed me time slips in the high 10's / low 11's from the local drag strip. Just for the fun of it, I'll try contacting him and, if successful, report back on the actual times. My memory may be a little rusty, that was going on 30 years ago.
My point was that you don't have to buy an AMG or "Motorsport" sedan if drag racing is your sole measurement of "performance". It's not mine. Wasn't back then, and I certainly didn't regress over the years since.
My Submariner doesn't keep better time than my Seiko sports watch, but I certainly don't confuse them or their mission ;-) Although my 2003 530 SP does not offer the highest acceleration attribute of the performance equation, it does everything else to my sheer delight.
Someone in an E55 ain't gonna get to work any faster than I can! This is why my dream garage would look something like Jay Leno's... something for every occasion and every mood! From the Subie WRX STi to the E55/M5... "it's all good".
I dig the older American performance cars as well... 65-67 GTO, any pre-'68 Corvette, SS396 Chevelles, Boss Mustangs (302, 351, 429), and of course... HEMI Cuda's!
Rode in a friend's 2004 E55 recently, and that acceleration in a compact car is out of sight.
Since my ride was short and I was busy talking business, let me ask those here with experience with both S500 and E55. Is the E55 better in terms of the annoying interios noise? I remember the 99 E55 was very quiet over even cobblestone roads and the side roads around Scarsdale NY.
I had driven a E500 for about 10 miles and it was pretty rattle free, although that dealer demo had a loose part in the trunk.
Any help is appreciated.
Paul