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Comments
The Japanese, especially Toyota don't like to leak spy photos like the Europeans do. I doubt if you'll ever see the next LS like we all did the S during its development. I suspect it will be shown either this month at the Tokyo auto show or in Jan at Detroit. Then again the Japanese like to wait until the last minute so if it doesn't make either one of those shows it might not show up until the New York show in April, since the car will be a 2007 model.
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I guess, but by the slimmest of margins...I don't like either. A car has to have some style to it for me to be interested.
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They had every Lexus model there for people to drive. I drove the LS430, IS350 and GS430. Surprisingly (or not surprisingly in the day of $3 gasoline) no one drove the LX470 for a while during the 3 1/2 hours I spent there.
First the not-so-good stuff. Looking around at all of Lexus' there is nothing there with any sizzle to it. No rare models, no styling, much less anything exotic looking. There is nothing special about the brand, no racing history to read about, no vintage cars, nothing in the way of oooh ahh..type things you get at similar events from Lexus' competitors. Lexus is too synthetic. They didn't even have their usual trophy wall stacked with JDP awards. Uh...hello Lexus this is your claim to fame. As usual they go out of their way to make it nice, meaning a lot of fufu food and other non-automotive things for folks who feel the must be pampered at a ride-n-drive event. Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac are guilty of having all this irrelevant stuff going on also. I would spend that budget on getting more competitor cars there and longer
Now......about the IS350. Holy (expletive) this car is fast. I was lucky enough to be there when they had some professional drivers (they should have asked me!) race the IS350 and the 330i. People boo'd because the IS350 got a head start on the 330i, but after driving the IS350 myself there is no contest in the way of straight-line speed. The IS350 is a rocket. I was shocked in seeing the IS350 and 330i side by side. In pictures I was almost convinced that Lexus had a winner on their hands in the styling department, but in real life a 330i with the sport package (18 inch wheels) looks better than the IS350 to my eye. The IS350 looks like something Scion would come up with imo. It almost looks like a 4-door Scion TC Coupe. Mind you it isn't ugly by any means, but the BMW looks better imo. There is no imagination to the IS, all flat, broad expanses of unadorned sheet metal with nothing to break up the monotony. The BMW at least in sport guise looks more aggressive and cutting edge. Enough about styling, the driving is where the real fun is. I was told to floor the IS350 so naturally I did. In a few eye blinks its time to get on the brakes...like now! I'm at the end of the straightaway part of the course. The only other 6-cylinder sedan I remember with this much pull was the C32 AMG. Where the IS and 330i are clear opposites is in their interiors. The IS350 is a mini GS, snug and comfortable and luxurious. The 330i is actually much roomier, even in the front. The 330i has a more spartan interior, but the test car did have the wood trim and idrive which helps a lot. A non idrive 3-Series is really plain on the inside like BMW of the early 90's. The 330i shines on the handling course. It has a tighter, more buttoned down feeling to its handling and steering, where the IS350 is lighter and not as precise, but could be deemed as more "fun" to some, while the 330i is more serious. My take is the IS350 will suit Lexus buyers perfectly, those looking for something a little sportier than the normal Lexus, but those used to BMWs will likely stick with BMWs. That firm, almost heavy feel of the BMW just isn't there in the IS350. The IS350 is a worthy competitor, but the look is plain and sterile imo. I do wonder why they didn't make it a tad bigger though, its really a tight fit for some folks. Funny how things change, BMWs used to have that same cockpit feeling that the IS350 now has, a feeling that the 330i doesn't give off as vividly as it did in the past. The BMW was also quieter. :confuse:
Next, up I drove the GS430. They had an E500 there for comparison. The GS430 actually has better steering than the E500, but their handling is about the same. Neither car is a 5-Series, which wasn't there for comparison. I would have really liked to have seen a M45 there also, but I think Lexus knows better than to have a 550i and M45 there, especially on such a tight course, the GS430 would be embarrassed quite easily. Naturally they had the softer of the two premier German competitors there, the E500. The E and GS are the same in acceleration too, with the E500 reaching for extra gears when it was time to hit the brakes I would like to have had some extra room to see what these cars would really do. I haven't driven the new GS without a sales person present, nor have I driven the E500 since it got the new 7-speed tranny. Pretty much comes down to style and whatever other personal criteria a person has here as both cars were equally impressive.
I didn't drive the SC430 because the line was too long and in 50 degree weather I was not about the stand in line that long to drive a convertible. The SC and IS350 were the most popular vehicles there by far. The LX470 just the opposite. After the IS and SC came the RX400h, everyone wanted to drive it. I can't stand SUVs so I passed.
Finally I drove the LS430. Other than the quality and reliability I don't see anything else appealing about this car. The design is aged, upright and just about as non-aesthetically pleasing as possible. There is nothing special here in the way of design over anything at Toyota dealership. Sure everything is of the highest quality and what not, but the look of it, yuck. Why Lexus had a handling course for car like the LS430 is beyond me. They used to have a bumpy section and an evasive maneuver for you to go through, which would make more sense than a slalom/handling course. The LS430 keeled over like an old battle ship on the handling course. The steering is completely lifeless and felt like something in an old-school Cadillac. It is church quiet though. I mean nothing. No suspension noise, no nothing, but I did make the tire protest about my driving.
They also had the IS250 and GS300 there, both cars in either rwd of awd. They didn't have a 325i to compare with the IS250, but they did have a 530i there for competitive drives against the GS300. I couldn't stand the cold (wind) any longer to drive all of them. Just like I suggested to Mercedes last year around this same time, these events need to be held in the summer or spring for Chicago, Oct. weather is too dicey for outdoor stuff.
In summary, I was most impressed by the IS350 and pleasantly surprised by the GS430. Slowly, but surely Lexus is discovering that people might actually want to drive instead of just commute. The IS and GS are more entertaining to drive than any Lexus of the past. The LS430 was about what I expected, having driven one back in 2002. The IS250 and GS300 will have to wait until another time.
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As for the SC430, you didnt miss much. Its basically a 2 door LS. Quite a disappointment, as the old SC400 coupe was actually pretty fun. Hopefully when it gets replaced, probably around 2008, the new one will be more IS350 and less LS430.
I really wanted to drive it though, but the wind whipping through the tent area was no joke.
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I didn't make it to the NY area event myself, unfortunately. But then, the IS isn't really my cup of tea. Now, when Lexus or MB has an event with the new-generation LS and S, I'll make more of an effort to go.
I am curious, now that you've been to the event, if you had the money to buy a new 2006 model in the 3/IS/C/A4/G class, but not enough for a M or AMG type, what would you pick? Same question for the 5/GS/E/A6/M. From your report it sounds like the 3 or IS, and the 5?
Well in the entry-level class I would have to seriously look at the IS350, 330i and C350, which I have yet to drive. The A4 is a distant choice and G35 doesn't cut it for me. My reality in this class is that I'll be looking at the new V6 C230, IS250 and 325i, not their pricier versions. In the next segment up it would either be an E, A6 or M35/45, the 5-Series' interior turns me off and the GS I just couldn't stand to look at. The E and A6 are just so much more elegant looking than anything else in this class imo. The M45 is pure Japanese aggression, very boy-racer imo. Its kinda unusual for this class of car, but I like it for some reason. Since we're dealing in "what if"s I'd stretch things and get what I really want, a CLS500. No contest if the CLS500 is an option.
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You should have gone straight to an MB dealer to sample an SLK with air scarf.
time to send a resume to Car & Driver!
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Actually last year at this very same time I went to a Mercedes event (I think I posted about it here) at which I drove the SLK350 with Airscarf. It makes a difference, but still not enough to make a windy 50 degree day in Chicagoland a proper convertible day, imo.
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I love this thing for some reason.
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It won’t be so low to the ground and I hope it has a little less curvature. The final version will bear a resemblance to this but I expect it change considerably. Love the way the wheels and brakes make the mission statement. Four years to go and it feels like it has already been 30 years in the making. Yeah, that was a bummer not having a full concept at Frankfurt. Kudos to the artist who executed the photorealism, right down to the landscape reflection on the top version.
I appreciate your Lexus drive reports, Merc1 - thanks.
The LS I have been hoping to see for years is the long-rumored LWB version with 5-6" longer wheelbase. Anyone heard more about this version lately?
I love the LS but rear seat room for 6'0"-6'4" passengers (my sons) is way too tight - only 37.6".
Excellent report. I agree with your opinions on most everything. Here is a good question for you: Out of the upcoming releases of the High end sedans, which one are you most excited about? (S-Class, 07 LS, etc)
I was at the Lexus dealer the other day and they didn't volunteer anything about the upcoming LS series. They only showed me pictures of the IS..Not my sort of thing. I still think the new Lexus cars look like something drawn by those Pokemon cartoon artists..They really need to do a better job on styling.
I wonder if Jaguar has anything in works. I had a look at the new XJ and was very disappointed. It didn't look like a "Jaguar." I still prefer the older model and hope to pick one up one of these days.
I'm content at the moment with my 92 LS and new LS430. The 92 back from repair drives whisperquiet...And can you believe all the car's troubles were due to missing brake shims?! I'm still disappointed with the performance of Lexus through all of this. I'm hoping Mercedes sorts out the quality issues and brings their prices back into reality.
I saw an older Mercedes SL (90-03?) the other day. Talk about a timeless design. I wonder if I can convince my wife to let me get one of those. I'm assuming since it was one of the last to be redone, it doesn't have any of those electrical issues that have been plaguing the new model. I have a strange range of cars at the moment: a 92 LS400 that hibernates during the week, a 05 LS430 that my wife doesn't let me drive, and a 06 Corolla that I use to putter around town..Can't argue with the 38 MPG. Excellent fit and finish too.
Happy motoring everyone,
SV
The most beautiful car I have ever seen.
I wasn't sure if I liked it at first, but it has really grown on me.">link title
Like tinted rear glass from Presidential Cadillac limos, while the front windows are clear. Maybe you could glue on the 'mountain profile' GPS receiver antennae from BMW, use the wheels from JCWhitney, rear lights from 1992 Honda Accord, rear quarter panels from Acme Rip and Strip Car Recycling, upper tail gate wing from 1999 Lexus RX300, front grill from Parallelogram, headlights from Wandering-eye, Inc. and black-out trim from the Toyota Camry school of Art and Design.
Plus, if you have the battery option, you can turn the model on and the electronics explode sometime overnight. If you have the wind-up option instead, you can just wind it up and nothing happens.
Of course, the incredible leather interior in your kit is orderable in 72 non-reproducible colors at delivery, other options include a model stereo that still uses vacuum tubes for fidelity and a miniature compass/map backup kit for the the $4000 nav option.
Try the model first. It's a good indicator of end user experience.
Of course the S-Class is what I'm most excited about, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't waiting to see what the new LS is going to be like also. Its the only car that will competing wheel to wheel with the S-Class for a while. The A8, 7-Series and XJ all have at least 3+ more years to go before they get redesigned and the European press is already calling the new S the best car in the world. I can't wait to see what our press here will say once the roadtests start showing up next 2 months or so.
I saw an older Mercedes SL (90-03?) the other day. Talk about a timeless design.
Ah yes....you are speaking of the R129 SL, produced from 1990-2002. That is my second favorite Benz of days gone by. There are 2 older Mercedes' that I'm going to have before my time is up. A R129 SL500 is one of them and the W124 E500 is the other. These two Mercedes' are like my favorites of all time. Out of their current models on the CLS and CL are as "special" to me.
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Those wheel arches cry out for larger wheels, which is fine on most models, but some of the lesser European models are going to look undertired for sure. I don't like that.
They all won't look this good.
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I suspect flushing out the 997 lineup is more important in the near term than showing concepts. The GTS, RS, and Turbo have yet to make their debuts so I guess we'll be seeing those before any Panamera concepts.
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If the driving experience is intact you can ink another home run in the Porsche box score.
One caveat: Porsche needs to remember that each additional inch of wheelbase adds to ground clearance problems. The car as pictured is a real 'concrete muncher'.
I like the look of those bolt-studded wheels on the S but these low profile tires are getting out of hand as fashion. Jeez, they’re for racing on smooth race tracks I can’t imagine anyone wanting a luxury barge with them. I don’t even like them on the sports cars unless, as I said, they’re for track. For driving, I like the 17s on the Boxster and 911. You can’t even get 17s anymore on a 911 and Boxster S. Even some track rats seem to prefer the 18s.
By the way, I think I could like those fender flares on the MB S if only they blended them into the fenders with a nice wide-radius filet. It’s those hard edges that are really out of whack and jarring IMO. I think you will notice that the shots of the S that are most attractive are the ones where the lighting de-emphasizes the hard edges on the flares.
Yes, I can’t wait for the new LS. I am also very curious to see how the IS will sell, especially since they are really marketing the power of the 350 in their advertising. And I think we could see next 7 a year before the 7-year life cycle. Ditto with the 5 unless there is a considerable face lift.
Scott we can ignore that ground clearance on the Panamera concepts it looks in the league of the super cars such as Ferraris, Lambos and CGT it just ain’t happening. As a matter of fact, I believe the final design will look considerably different. I think they released the sketch just to create some visual interest to accompany the announcement that they are officially proceeding with it.
I’m just rambling from one thought to another now, but another example of what subtle changes in proportion and angles mean can be seen in the Infiniti G coupe vs sedan. It never ceases to amaze me how similar yet incredibly different those two versions look to me.
I think those flaired wheel wells are just plain UGLY...I think the 04 Mercedes S is far more beautiful.
Ditto, mattox
I was gonna say the exact same thing! At first glance, I thought it was a BMW 7-Series.....
Oh well.... Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/chrysler/ptcruiser/100466987/photogallery.html?pg_type=Wag- - on&imgsrc=%2Fpictures%2FVEHICLE%2F2005%2FChrysler%2F100466989%2F032161-T.jpg
As Wale_bate said in another thread, all manufacturers are searching for the next big thing. He calls it "searching" but I think it's more like groping.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/handleHomeFlash.action?vehicleCode=RX8&modelYear=2005
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