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What I don't like about design nowadays is the trend towards taller cars with slab sides. Why someone wants a SUV like view out of a car is beyond me. A car like the Ford 500 is simply too tall. I actually like the little Scion TC, but its way too tall and slab sided for a coupe. This new IS350 suffers from the same thing as does the Bentley Continental GT. Cars like the Aston Martin DB9 stand in direct contrast to this unattractive trend. The new S-Class is really tall looking also. These new European pedestrian safety regs are slowly going to kill all the low and sleek looking cars.
M
Curse my luck. My 1992 LS400 fresh from all of its trips to the body shop/dealer got hit Once again...Some fool must have hit it in the shopping mall. Ahhh!!!! I just spent $3500 having every little nagging cosmetic and mechanical thing done. I can't believe it!! It was perfect, absolutely perfect!!!
Well looks like I have to hire a private army to guard it. What is it about inconsiderate people these days? My last LS430 was rammed in the parking lot too. I think I've heard similar stories on this board too. Another reason for the grocery getting Corolla. Let 'em hit that.
The Corolla was just a fuel saving measure. It is a neat little car, though the lack of side impact and head protection really does bother me. My wife has taken an interest in it, and I'm hoping she'll steal that so I can get my 05 LS back.
She already is staking her claim to the refurbished LS400. It was HER who took it to that mall on Saturday where it got hit!!! Needless to say I won't be talking to her for the rest of today!
The E320 CDI is a great car. I can't wait until they sell it in MA. Pricing isn't too bad either. Why they discriminate against diesel in a time of a oil crisis, I'll never know. I think the vastly improved gas mileage outweighs any emissions related issues. Besides SUV aren't even subjected to the same standards!!! Aren't they updating the E Class soon? I'm thinking of getting one of those or just picking up a S350 which seems to be a great value for the money. I'm with Gary on wanting to pick one up in 3 yrs. MB sure knows style, I'll definitely give them that.
SV
M
The XJ looks almost exactly like the old one. Jaguar took very few chances, and even if it does have a styling advantage over the Lexus, people are not so in love with the Jag's styling as to actually buy it over a Lexus or Mercedes. The A8 is an attractive car, but it still has the "Audi" shape, just in large size, compared to medium (A6) and small (A4). Lexus will also have no trouble selling 10 LS460s for every 1 A8.
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No I'm not bashing them for having a family resemblance, I'm just wondering if all the MB/Audi detractors that bashed Audi and especially Mercedes for doing the same thing are going to say anything about Lexus doing it. Of course they aren't because just like I said when people here were knocking the A4 and C-Class for looking like scaled down A8s and S-Classes, when Lexus does this it will be seen as some great styling home run. Fast foward, and that is what happened just as I and Lexus said it would do. But just a few years ago right here in this very board the S-Class was devauled because it had a C-Class clone running around, now since Lexus has done the same thing with the LS and IS, its a smart practice. The A8 and A4 are no different from the IS and LS, now. Both sets of cars are nothing more than a scale up/down of the same theme for both brands.
Of course since Lexus has managed to make a LS that doesn't look like poor copy of a Benz the raves are pouring in on the other board with the S being dated and what not. Benz had better knock off 20K from the price or tweak the S before it goes on sale here, nevermind the fact that it is already on sale in Europe so it would be impossible to "tweak" it for the U.S. market as far as styling goes. Such hype I haven't read a quite a while. It's 1989 all over again and yet even in 1989 Benz and everyone else went on doing what they're going to do in 2006, sell cars. This end of the world talk is really beyond silly at this point, imo.
M
M
The last area for discussion here will center on the driving dynamics of this new car... over-nannied like the GS? Would also guess this car will impact MB/Audi/Jag more than BMW if the driving experience tilts heavily toward insulated luxury. Have heard, however, that the new S-Class is more in the realm of the 750i, so maybe MB will play up drivability with their new V8's.
In this segment I cant think of any vehicle that does not tilt towards insulated luxury, including the BMW 7 series. If you want performance buy the BMW M5 instead of the 7 series!! If you want a better driving experience than a BMW M5 then buy a Audi RS4!
So what is my point? Size and weight in my opinion is a drivability-killer. Once you buy cars like the Lexus LS or the MB S , LUXURY and not drivability becomes the priority!
This is true, but a car doesn't have to be lifeless to drive like the LS430 in order to provide luxury. The S-Class rides just as well, and handles better, but isn't as quiet. Hardly a penalty box.
M
Accoring to world of ctsang, the MB chauffeurs are the lucky ones
While I certainly don't agree with everything that is being said here, I have to agree that the difference in handling between a 7, an S, and an LS under "normal everyday" driving conditions is really not great. As someone else said, if you are looking for a true "driver's" car, you really need to go AT LEAST one step down in size to an E or a 5 (and even then a modified version). All the sedans in this class - including the 7 - are too big, heavy and high off the ground to throw around curves, etc.
In fact, what is missing from this discussion is that the choice of tires put on any of these cars will have a bigger effect on extreme driving abilities than the choice of cars itself. Believe it or not, I can throw my LS with 18" low profile high performance tires around corners faster than I can my E320 with 16" regular Michelins! That's the "real" world. BTW, the trade off for putting the high performance tires on the LS is more road noise, rougher ride, even a bit more vibration through the steering wheel than with the "regular" tires. Many LS owners wouldn't want to make that trade off; for me (with most of my driving in town), I like being able to corner, change lanes, even accelerate faster rather than cruise a bit smoother and quieter. If most of my driving was at 70 mph on the highway, I'd probably go for the "regular" tires.
Experience has taught me that all of life is trade offs, and all generalizations are wrong.
M
Designman... I've been so much away from here its been ages... looks like it ! Reading through, I came across this post from you.
Yes, I have a couple of young uns' - 11 & 13 to be exact. In a couple of years I fully expect that my car needs would change. I already have a deal with my wife. She gets an LX470 this year, and I get an LS460 next year... Originally, I had wanted the IS350, but seeing that I gotta satisfy the wife with the LX, and the new LS is just so stunning, I gotta pass on the IS. But that 5.3s 0-60 on the IS350 is sure tempting....
My driveability argument that smaller is better still holds. BUT to say that all big lux mobiles have indistinguishable driveablity goes a bit too far!
If a driver cannot tell the difference between the upcoming Audi S8 and and the Lexus LS, then that driver must suffer some form of sensory deprivation.
Despite the Audi S8's upcoming engine, I must humbly say that I would be a far happier driving its smaller sibling: The RS4.
1) The enthusiast who hates the coercive nannies on the IS and its lack of a manual transmission. BMW3 and Infinti G35 enthusiasts are not going to storm the doors of a Lexus dealership for this kind of car
2) The comfortable luxury seeker who finds the lack of rear seating space as a turn-off!. These type of buyers will remain devoted to the more spacious Lexus ES/LS vehicles.
1) The enthusiast who hates the coercive nannies on the IS and its lack of a manual transmission...
There is a 6MT in the IS250, there is no electronic nanny either.
2) The comfortable luxury seeker who finds the lack of rear seating space as a turn-off!.
This is a compact sport-lux class. The key word being compact ! If you need to carry 4 people in a sedan, get a mid-sized t full-size car. A compact car, by definition should be small and nimble. That is what the IS sedans are.
If I own an IS350, it will be for me and the missus mostly, blasting down the freeway. When I need to transport the kids, either the full-size LS or the full-size SUV will do plenty well. But an IS350 will just be my fun/toy car...
Of course it's compact.... But the fact that it has 4"-6" less rear legroom than anything in its class is crazy! A Honda Civic or Toyota Echo have 4" more rear legroom... A 2-door VW Golf has 3" more... A Mazda RX-8 coupe has 2" more.... A freakin' Mini Cooper has 1" more rear legroom than an IS350!!!
It's one thing to just chalk it up to being a "compact".... It's another to be even smaller in the back than a Mini!
2)You yourself are living proof about my point that the IS does not provide space and comfort for the luxury seeker!
Kudos for your choice in buying a Lexus LS. It is a gem of a car that caters to the needs of the luxury segment. The IS250 and IS350 are the kind of cars that frustrates the needs of both the luxury and performance segment!
Bimmer enthusiasts have been driving puny-HP 3-series for years....Those 323, 325, 328, 525, 528, etc.. all have HP much less than 204HP in the IS250, eh ?
2)You yourself are living proof about my point that the IS does not provide space and comfort for the luxury seeker!
True. But I am a realist. A compact sedan is a compact sedan.... same as a full size sedan is, well, a full size sedan. I have a family of 4 and would rather put them in a car that is comfy.... A compact car ain't a family sedan...
'nuff said...
Mercedes-Benz and BMW have competing visions for the future of the car. Inside Line asks both manufacturers to state their case.
Perhaps so, but electronics and their integration seem to be a trouble spot for certain car manufacturers.
By the way, yes they do... making computers these days is more of an assembly operation anyway, as components are outsourced.
They may not be magic to kids who are born today, but I like many others have put some serious time in the trenches before the computer epoch. Because of this and remembering what my field went through in the transition period between 1984 and 1994, computers never cease to amaze me. I have up to 10 apps open simultaneously throughout the course of my workday and often think of what it what it would have taken in the old days with sheer manpower and money to produce what we can get done in one day today.
When I think of yesterday and the tons of magic markers, rapidograph pens, airbrushes, 35mm slides, photo labs (we could go on forever describing horse-and-buggy implements), programs like Photoshop are pure magic to me and will be magic forever. They are magic because they enable incredible productivity.
If car manufacturers can use digital power and ingenuity to enhance safety, performance and reliability, this will be magic to me also. The problem as I see it is that cars are too grounded in the mechanical world and those who design them have to distinguish between which technologies are truly useful vs. truly fashionable. As we often discuss, some auto companies are too smitten with tech as fashion.
When you look at the lead Toyota has taken with hybrid and alternate energy, which has a ton of digital tech behind it, my inclination is to say yes, this is magic and is one of the ways it should be going. When Mercedes talks about using digital tech to develop accident avoidance, yep, I can sense the magic. Again, this is the way it should be going.
Digital tech as fashion in the mechanical world? Not productive, not magic.