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But, as you seem to understand yourself, a major qualiifier needs to be added.
I sincerely question the duration of that statement.
Hemi
So now if the LS sells 30k in 2000, unless it sells close to 60k in 2001, it's not a good a redesign? I'm not following you.
Since Lexus is quite proud of the Next LS, and is showing it off to all concerned, a quantum leap in sales, and a sag in current LS sales, may yield the increase of which you speak.
You can set the bar as high as you want. You know the LS will clear it with ease!
DrFill
first and foremost let us make sure we are talking about the correct benchmarks.
Tagman and Hemi are talking about the benchmark the S Class sets in terms of of the car itself when compared to other models.
While the benchmark you are talking about is based on sales $$$. Sales benchmarks say little about a car as movie box office sales say little about a film.
An independent thinker will not be swayed into liking a movie or a car just because of how much $$$ they raise.
Please stick to the cars and not your opinions of other posters.
Thank you.
And yes the bar has been set quite high nowadays by the ubiquitous S-Class. But with better suspenders and a decent set of all-seasons, it should at the most meet the bar.
The same for most of the other cars in it's class. THe QX56 is by far and away the most "detached" SUV in it's class. At 50k, there is no reason for the shortcomings of this ride. Hopefully the new G's are improved over the predecessors. But I must admit, Infiniti must've sent the M to finishing school as this is the best car in terms of fit/finish in the line-up. I think it is their best offering hands down....
But one thing I can say about the Infiniti's: Boy are they reliable.
Two days after having the car, the ECM goes out. Got it fixed, a month later, the power steering goes. Then the "sudden acceleration", and so forth....
What a difference 20 years make. My A8L W12 has been a model of absolute quality and reliability. Not so much as a hiccup in this car with 14k miles on it. German engineering had dark days indeed, but thankfully, looking at the renaissance of MB, BMW, Porsche, and Audi, those days are over.....
If you are going to interpret for me, try to do it accurately.
Tag
I was not quoting sales numbers for the post. It was an example to illustrate my point.
My posts aren't this hard to understand. They can't be! :mad:
DrFill
I don’t know about brutal competition but you know I like the G coupe concept—a handsome piece of work—one of the best lookers IMO. I sure hope it comes unbotched.
I always point to Porsche when anyone asks that type of question. The 911 basically looks the same as it did 40 years ago. I’d like the same for Jaguar but they are a different problem. I think Ford will be the death of Jag, AM and Volvo unless they sell them off to worthy concerns. Also, Jag was always plagued by reliability issues so in the hands of Ford the market perception just gets worse.
I don’t think BMW needed radical styling change. The only thing the new styles did was trumpet “new model”. They could have done the same thing with an evolutionary approach just as Porsche does. Porsche actually went backward with the exterior styling of the 997 in response to complaints about 996, even though they did step up the interior in terms of material quality.
I was not quoting sales numbers for the post. It was an example to illustrate my point.
My posts aren't this hard to understand. They can't be!
Doc,
You've got someone else's post confused as mine. I don't know what you are talking about . . . I never replied anything about sales numbers . . . re-check, my friend.
TagMan
My little guy thinks it's a real-life Hot-Wheels race car. In some ways he's probably right.
Anyway, I've got a hungry family here. I'll chime in later . . . and start talking HELMS again.
TagMan
However, my dilemma is A8L vs M-B S550 4MATIC (which I realize isn't on the road yet). I like the styling of the M-B better, and after having driven a flawless S430 for 5 years, I feel as though I am being a traitor jumping to the Audi side.
Any comments? I believe that the Audi is a better car for the money - the A8L being about $12K cheaper than the comparable M-B - and has a sportier feel on the road. What are the impressions of others of you?
shrinkrap
BTW: I almost bought an M6 in '87. But with the 58k sticker and so-so fun factor, it just proved to be a waste. So I took the plunge on one of the greatest American cars ever built: Buick GranNatitional. This wasn't granny's Buick my friend. If you wanted to go fast and look good doing it, this was the ride of '87(save for the fun I-ROC Z and Corvette)...
I've related several times that Jag will have to eventually evolve the styling of the XJ. The car, while very capable, isn't as exciting as it's Euro peers. The car has current technology and a very atheletic stride to it, but in this class, styling is what sets the tone with many buyers(German, American, and Japanese alike), and the XJ looks staid in comparison. The look is too reminescent of the previous car. Only we car nuts can decipher the difference.
Add in the underwhelming X-Type and tired S-Type only adds to the disaster. A complete model range line-up needs to effect soon, with the exception being the XK. Development of a higher performing AJ-V8 with 400-hp out of the box as standard would definetely set the tone for this car. What's wrong with using the awesome new Aston 4.3L V8 with 380hp on tap??
Speaking of Aston, even with new model designations and better quality, there is still something missing in this low-pro/high-dollar maker. Once the stable of all things exclusive, the brand has been "FORDified". The brands quality has taken a step backward, albeit reliability has been taken way up considerably....
And yes, Porsche addressed it's customer base swiftly with the 997 V. 996. The car has went back to the perfect-round eye vs. the new and unwanted egg-eye. It actually looks cleaner and simpler.... Thanks Porsche for listening.
I chose my A8 over the Benz because of Audi's complete blend of performance and luxury. No other car at the time(Fall-'05) offered what the W12 did. No car offered this much power in AWD, and they still don't.
But don't get me wrong. I'm a MB fanatic also, having owned two in the last 5 years. The first a magnificently reliable S500, and the second a stupid fast S65 AMG, which I regretedly sold to pursue my A8L W12.
For what it's worth, the S550 4-Matic will be the closest thing in matching Audi's Quattro AWD. It retains the 40/60 split like on the quattro, but does without a LSD, a crucial piece in the mountain-goat-like surefootedness of the A8.
And I must admit , Lexus has the LS600hL coming out, but from what Lexus released, the car will be 100% RWD until it feels the need for AWD. These systems have proved twitchy on ice covered roads and useless in most situations that you feel you need the AWD....
Interestly your description fits one part of BMW and that is called the MINI.
The XK was in the same showroom today, and it is a beautiful car, particularly considering the exceptional price. What comes that close for the same money?
I've related several times that Jag will have to eventually evolve the styling of the XJ. The car, while very capable, isn't as exciting as it's Euro peers. The car has current technology and a very atheletic stride to it, but in this class, styling is what sets the tone with many buyers(German, American, and Japanese alike), and the XJ looks staid in comparison. The look is too reminescent of the previous car. Only we car nuts can decipher the difference.
The XJ is a classic, and the new generation aluminum Vanden Plas is a steal, but the design mistake was not angling the front end to be a tad more like Bentley, IMO. The interior is gorgeous as well, but a little more "techi" look without sacrificing its luxurious and sumptuous look and feel would have been the answer, IMO. Amazing class-leading fuel economy for a car so large and nimble. With the recent high quality and reliability, I love Jags, even as they are, but I would love to see the necessary improvements made before it is too late. The loss of Jaguar would be a tragedy, IMO.
And yes, Porsche addressed it's customer base swiftly with the 997 V. 996. The car has went back to the perfect-round eye vs. the new and unwanted egg-eye. It actually looks cleaner and simpler.... Thanks Porsche for listening.
Porsche removed the gorgeous, subtle and sexy air intake (is the term cowl?) at the base of the windshield with the new generation 911. It was a distinguishing trademark of 911 and it should have stayed to distinguish the 911's from the Boxsters. I miss it. (Probably got the ax as a result of a wind tunnel test, darn it.) The rear lights had a nice subtle connecting wrap in the previous generation that also should have been retained to distinguish the 911 from the Boxster, IMO. Regrdless, I totally agree with you that the headlights are an improvement.
TagMan
However, you forgot Land Rover, which is doing commendably- Range Rover and RR Sport are flying off the lots as usual, and LR3 has been a hit. Their only flop in the US was the Freelander, which has been discontinued, to make way for the LR2.
They cannot have entirely eliminated it.
Every review I read indicated a slight turbo lag was present.
The BMW inline 6 in itself is a marvel and this twin turbo version is only going to make it better. I will gladly suffer the slight turbo lag of BMW's twin turbo inline 6 especially when you compare this gem of an engine with other 6 cylinders.
Cant wait to test drive one!
The old car for instance, would suffer in the 2-3k rpms, where it really counts the most. This car spools up so fast that you forget it's actually a turbo.
The German makers have been doing this for a couple of years now, starting with the Audi/VW 2.0T 4-cylinder engine. Combined with it's direct-injection, it gives this littlest 4-cyl the power of a V6 with awesome fuel economy.
BMW has promised to eliminate turbo lag on it's first time in a long time turbocharged car. I don't think they'll make such an assumption if they couldn't live up to it......
But have you looked at the XK's sticker with some mild options? This thing can get down right pricey, passing the XLR on up to the $90k mark only set by the trendsettin SL and Porsche Cab.
See we are on the same page about Jag. The company still has that certain verve to it that only needs some voom to show the marketplace "that hey, were still here", even tho our parent company closed one of the most historic factories in the world where we were built, Browns Lane...
While our competition has used some of out best concepts, only we can fully deliver the product. Some have even went so far as to copy one of the supposed hated (Bangle) styling cues on the market today. This company knows who it is, once the stable of all things conservative, has adapted our Bangle-Butt and kink in the quarter glass of the rear door. Our styling was the laughing stock of the turn of the century, now everyone uses it?? My how a couple years makes a difference..
Team Europe urges you to stick with the original recipe makers, the ones who actually invented the automobile, the ones who invented the term performance luxury, the ones who invented the most capable AWD and most scrumptous quality money can buy. This is why Team Europe will never leave you astray. We will never sell to our older crowd a car so easy to operate then turn it into a car that makes our i-Drive look like an etch-a-sketch..
Our slogan holds truths in it: Team Europe- The people of many choices....
A-ha! That counters Oac's claim. Something's rotten in Denmark!
Give it some time. ;-)
NYT says many of these quality problems apply to Lexus and that baby of the green movement, the Prius.
The article had an amazing statistic. Toyota has a 40% share of the domestic market, and had 1.9 MILLION recalls in 2005. Nissan and Honda both had about 200,000 recalls in the same year. It didn't say, but I think both companies had half the domestic share of Toyota, roughly 20%. That means a domestic Toyota is FIVE times more likely to be recalled than a domestic Nissan or Honda. Now it's possible both companies are also concealing their defects, a la Toyota. But there's no evidence of that yet.
Toyota is trying to address its recent horrendous recall record. But the auto experts here and Japan don't think the problem is going away soon. Their reasoning: the recalls are for cars already sold, some for as along as 10 years ago, there's nothing Toyota can do about them now.
Another interesting thing: Toyota's problems come mostly from design flaws, unlike Nissan's problems, which came mostly from that brand new manufacturing plant.
Another thing I predict: from now on authorities and consumers worldwide won't give anymore Toyota the benefit of the doubt regarding recalls, driving them up further.
Everything is going according to plan:
The Hyundai Sonata will be the best-selling car in America by December, 2008.
How sweet it is!!
Sorry, LG-I just don't see it happening.
Oh no? BMW sold 72 330Cis in July, and 256 325Cis. Infiniti sold 2,090 G35 coupes. Infiniti is no threat, eh? You can whine that the BMW coupe is end-of-life, but so is the G. July 2005 sales for BMW 325Ci, 328. 330i, 220. July 2005 Infiniti G35 coupe sales, 2,515.
At least in the US, Infiniti has hurt BMW rather badly in the sales department, wouldnt you say Tag?
A twin-turbo 335i coupe sounds rather irresistible, don't you think?
Refer to my brief post 17666.
TagMan
It does sound like a great car, don't get me wrong. I just dont think it will be outselling the G35. Infiniti sells almost as many coupes as sedans. The 3 series may be the benchmark, but the segment is ruled by the TL and G in terms of sales numbers.
The new turbo engine will help them to at least match if not outrun the new G and the IS350, but I hope they are able to keep that signature BMW turbine smooth power delivery. I've driven plenty of turbo\AT cars, and most of the time I haven't been impressed. In the Subaru Legacy 2.5GT for example, the autobox feels dim-witted and clumsy, and there's basically a choice of not enough power, or too much.
Historically, BMW coupes have been assigned lower residuals and higher money factors than their corresponding sedans.
Curses! :mad:
Historically, BMW coupes have been assigned lower residuals and higher money factors than their corresponding sedans.
Curses!
When you say "Curses" are you suggesting that it would make a personal difference to you regarding a genuine buying decision? Or are you just blowin some air?
TagMan
Well, it's off to see Taylor Hicks and the other Idols live.
I'll bring my ear-plugs!
Why do we keep dragging all of these clearly no-where-NEAR-high-end marques into this conversation?? :confuse:
Not at the Collection. Yes, fits like a shoe . . . and is exciting, indeed. Can get intense.
'nuff said for now . . . better stick to HELMS.
TagMan
The interior layout is exquisite looking. Nothing even remotely Japanese in terms of its overall execution. I wonder if the Doc could have appreciated it as much, given its European creation. (Just kidding, Doc.) As I exited the vehicle I felt that little sigh that some of us understand . . . "oh well".
You know it is too bad the Maybach's price is so high in comparison. It makes the Bentley look like a bargain IMO.
TagMan
All I can say, Tag, is at least we are talking about HELMs again!
I'm sure LeBron appreciates his Bentley.
DrFill