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Comments
You ARE a ballbreaker.
Excuse me while I go out to my 165 slope golf course and shoot 65. I'm borrowing that other guy's pencil.
We have to have a team match, Euros vs Lexicans and I guess I'm stuck with you. Houdini will take Oac. IIRC he plays too but I don't know what kind of game he has. Expect to get slaughtered because those are serious numbers Houdini put up and I'm totally out of golf shape.
But one thing is for sure. We'll dust them on the way to the course.
;-)
Well, they are sort of predictable, aren't they?
Dull steering, no brakes, and, oh yes, it parks itself!
Just kidding, of course. The car will get excellent reviews, but with some of the same types of criticisms the past model has had. This time more power and refinement, however . . . and did I mention the car parks itself?
I'll be back in about 10 days . . . yes, another freakin vacation.
Thanks for that latest review, merc. Howard, good luck finding yourself a job . . . after your championship golf, of course. Hey, there's lots of money in golf, just a thought.
Hope to see the rest of the crew making some valuable contributions to this HELM board . . . best board without a doubt.
While on vacation, my primary vehicle once again? . . . a boat. :shades:
BTW, did I mention that the '07 Lexus LS parks itself?
TagMan
If I was better on the 4-6 footers, I could be pretty close to scratch, but alas I'm not.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Now if C&D, R&T, MT, and Automobile favor the LS over the S, that will be completely different and I will have to print a retraction and refer to them as fine magazines, not rags!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
All those damn lessons trying to change me into a one plane swinger.
I followed their advice, weakened my grip and am now killing the ball and my irons have never been more accurate.
But those 4-6 footers! Ouch!
Shot 82 from the tips today. I missed at least 6-8 makeable putts. Sickening.
To stay on topic, hey, how about that new LS!! Oh, yes, Tag watch out for ol' JAWS!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Well I'm 61, 6'2" well-built, and pretty flexible.
.
Everybody here plays from the whites, so twice a week I play with guys from the whites (6200 yds). I hate it.
But twice a week I go out alone (like today) and play from the championship tees. (6800 yds, the longest we have)
Coises! Foiled again!
That's the spirit. Gotta break the tension that often surfaces around here.
Faith? What faith? I thought I made it clear that the most important review is by the people who drive and buy. What I was trying to say is that they mention key things in these reviews that allow us to anticipate what it will be like. Based on what we have already heard, it is quite clear to me that the driving dynamics are pure luxury and in the ilk of the LS 430. Some people were anticipating more of a Euro ride and I don't think this is the case. But when I drive it I'll know for sure and form my own opinions, the rags be damned.
;-)
Not me. I would have put the odds at about 100-1. Why would they change a thing? They are the biggest volume seller in the Luxury sedan market in the US (their main market) and they don't want to turn off their loyal customer base who wants the "soft" ride. To me the risk they face is that if they don't start reaching out to the younger more performance oriented crowd, they may find their core clients aging and no group to replace them with.
I think it really makes sense to offer an AMG, M division so that they can appeal to another crowd without changing their basic product.
Hey, I'd love to play golf with you guys but we'd need the new hard drive on the Lexus to calculate how many strokes you "pros" would be giving me!
link title
Not necessarily some of those who leased an S320 last year / earlier this year for less than $500 a month.
many LS owners cannot afford to . . .
Highly doubtful. It's like saying people lease 545i because they can not afford LS . . . while it may be true for some folks since the 545i is after all less expensive, more often than not there are other reasons.
The hyperboles are just so many wasted electrons . . . or shall I say, projection?? as in projecting your own frustration with settling for a 545i? ;-)
This is the one and only car that not only governs how far away the car in front of it is, but can come to a complete stop and resume back to the speed set forth before the car came to a complete stop, WITHOUT driver's intervention. Lexus even says on the press release that, "with the drivers input", the car can park with "ease".
So let's see. Would I (a), want a car that can stop and resume speeds without the drivers input, or (b), try to let a 215" car parallel park itself only to have to end up parking it myself as the system has to read objects at least a foot away?
This is not another LS v. Euro car thing. It just has to be pointed out that because the car can "park" itself does not equate to the best thing since Windows 95.
Frankly, given MB's atrocious record with fancy subsystems, I'd be really worried about any system that may lull the driver into thinking the car can take care of driving all on its own . . . both for the driver and the for the motorist in front of it.
M
M
Wow, a car that semi-parks itself is better than a car that follows a cars path AND come to complete stop, fully. Maybe the "pursuit of perfection" has fallen off of MB's cruise radar...
BTW: Which electronics that MB has had over the last decade that had an "atrocious" record in which you may be referring? Up until the '07 S550, I've had every gadget MB has put out since 2000, and besides the COMAND problems(similar to the Nav and early Mark Levinson failures of the LS and other Lexus/Toyota models), NOTHING has ever went wrong with the electronics.
The S600 stats:
0-60 in 4.4 secs?( a scant 0.03 behind the pavement scorching S65 and you save 35-40k)
60-0 in 117 feet(better than the current LS by 18 feet, one car length)?
1/4 mile in 12.9 secs(Vette Z51 and Porsche 911 4S matching with almost double their weight)?
The feel of being rode around in the absolute finest HELM on the road today by quite a margin(only the Bentley FS truely compares): Priceless.
Are you saying that with the MB system, the driver need not steer?
A bit of sarcasm in that statement, uh syswei? Of course he/she has to steer, but their legs can be comfortable without the strenuous workout of mashing an accelerator.
Anyway if you look at the Lexus system for the LS460, it can as I understand it brake the car, but not to a stop like MB. I have to assume that if it can brake the car, Lexus made a conscious decision to NOT go as far as braking to a full stop. Or do you think the engineers there are incapable of designing that in?
Maybe they felt that if a driver relied on the system to do brake to a full stop, it might help put the driver to sleep. Solve one safety issue and create another.
Anyway it is interesting how Team Europe thinks Lexus needs to be more involving, more of a driver's car. But when it comes to cruise control, the less driver input the better.
Personally, every car I have owned has had cruise control. But I NEVER use it, because I think it will lead to driver inattention.
In the same vein, Lexus' claim of the quietest car in class would have the same effect. Or the super-plush air ride that Lexus loves to boast about can rock one sound asleep before the nursery rhyme is over. Or it could be the yawn-inducing ho-hum styling.
A driver using cruise control would fair much better than being in a car so quiet that you can't even hear an ambulance or fire engine coming.
We all want Lexus to dump the "Japanese Buick" derivative. Yes we strive for more involvement. Will the car ever be as good a performer as the Euro's? Never, and Lexus will make sure of that.
And when you have a 1800 mile jaunt in front of you, you'll become best friends with cruise control.......
Probably so. However, the LS460 is according to early reviews not as quiet as the outgoing LS. I think due to the dual-injection, but it could also be to come closer to pleasing Team Europe tastes.
And when you have a 1800 mile jaunt in front of you, you'll become best friends with cruise control.......
In my book, those sorts of distances are for flying.
IS: "A convertible was expected to debut when the coupe arrived. But Lexus is worried that its planned convertible may not succeed in a world of hard-top convertibles. The model may be sent back to the drawing board, forcing a delay.
Lexus executives downplay reports of a V-8, saying the big engine would kill the car's handling - not to mention that a 300-hp V-6 is plenty for a car this size. Don't rule out a hybrid as a midcycle addition."
GS: "The GS sedans get engine upgrades for the 2007 model year: a 3.5-liter V-6 and a 4.6-liter V-8. The V-6 may arrive this fall, while the V-8 may have to wait for the LS 460 to show up first."
SC: "The retractable-hardtop coupe gets a redesign in summer 2007, sharing the IS/GS platform. The 2008 model also will share the 4.6-liter V-8. Lexus is looking at proportions and stance similar to those of a BMW 6 series."
LFA: "Lexus' two-passenger, high-performance sports car will be unveiled at the same time as the Japan Formula One race moves to Toyota's home, Fuji Speedway, in the fall of 2007. It is likely that a big 500-hp V-8 will be the powerplant, as a V-8 has weight and packaging advantages over the all-but-dead V-10 program. It would arrive in the United States in spring 2008."
Small crossover: "Lexus once thought about using the RAV4 as the basis for a luxury vehicle. Executives concluded that the platform was too downmarket. But the success of the BMW X3 and the arrival of the Acura RDX and Volvo XC50 have them rethinking. If a thumbs up is given, it could arrive for the 2009 model year."
RX: "The V-6 engine gets bumped to 3.5 liters and adds a six-speed automatic transmission for the 2007 model year. A redesign comes in spring 2008. It will be slightly larger but not as large as the Toyota Highlander. The new target width is the same as that of the Acura MDX."
JX: "The big brother to the RX 330 crossover comes off the new GS sedan platform in mid-2007. For styling hints and dimensions, look to the Lexus LF-X (nee HPX) concept car, which had a 116-inch wheelbase, 194-inch overall length and room for three rows of seats. Power would come from a 4.3-liter V-8, although a 3.5-liter V-6 also might be offered. Competitors include the Infiniti FX35 and FX45."
LX: "A proposed large, Sequoia-based SUV has been killed from the product plan. That means the LX 470 lives on in its current form when the Toyota Land Cruiser gets redesigned."
By the way, autonews.com is free this week.
Some basic engineering knowledge would have informed us that automotive sound insulation is tuned to screened out certain frequencies and letting in others . . . for example, even in a "quiet as vault" car, the sirens of ambulances and fire engines can easily be heard . . . it's the cars with loud wind, road and drive train noises that block out ambulances and fire engine sirens.
Yes the S600 is quite a performer and will surprise many a sports car.
I'm more interested in your first impressions the S8 when it arrives, it is sort of an exotic in this class.
M
M
Their upcoming schedule if anyone wanted to know:
http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweek/upcomingshows.shtml
M
I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps there simply wont be an '07 GS430, and the GS460 will arrive as an early '08 model.
The review was quite positive.
He even called the vehicle, "extraordinary."
However, he had to spoil things a bit by saying it's "A car for the head, not the heart."
He gave it 4 out of 5 stars which is just about as good as it gets with the sedate "Times of London."
I caught the "MotorWeek" first look at the LS 460 on PBS the other day. They did everything but reveal driving impressions. Quite frustrating, but it wasn't supposed to be a test drive.
They showed a comprehensive view of the exterior and interior and the vehicle in motion. They also showed the LS460L.
I must say, I was impressed with the appearance of the LS460 as shown on that program-a huge improvement over the current version.
In that box are six infrared eyes logging the position of your features so it can build up a picture of your mug. It doesn’t matter how tall or short you are or from which ethnic group. It can see you in the pitch black even when you can’t see it and you won’t faze it by donning dark glasses.
And while it’s watching you, so another set of eyes, in the form of radar and cameras, is watching the road. This way the car can not only spot danger approaching from the back or front of the car, it can also tell whether you’re looking out of the side window or are fast asleep at the wheel as you hurtle towards this life-threatening hazard. If it figures that your attention is not where it should be, it will flash lights, bleep at you and nudge the brakes until it decides you’re back in control. And if you don’t snap out of your stupor it won’t just nudge the brakes, it’ll slam them on to save you from yourself.
While some will see this as an unnecessary interference and worry about a car with the ability to exercise such a degree of control over its driver, it’s hard to argue against a system that is only ever active when it’s trying to save your life.
And that’s not all this extraordinary car will do. While self-braking vehicles are not new, systems from Honda and Mercedes require the obstacle to be metallic, which is fine if it’s a car you’re about to wallop but entirely ineffective when a child runs out in front of you. The Lexus, by contrast, sees all, or so its maker claims. It will stiffen the suspension in anticipation of you trying to swerve around the danger and it even has eyes in the back of its head, or the rear bumper to be more precise, permanently scanning for something about to come smashing into the back of you. If it reckons that’s on the cards, it will move your headrest forward and up to minimise whiplash.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'm sure the LS' system is nice, and is ground-breaking, only 8 months after the S550 indroduced it.
About the self-park system, if you read correctly, I did say "Lexus" says the system operates this way.
Nice joke about the S, altho the S550 is still the only one to fully brake without the dtivers intervention. If the LS' approach systems are fogged or rained on, it doesn't work.
Funny thing is, in one of the LS430's earlier commercials, the guy speaks on how you can COMPLETELY block out the outside environment. Not a coincedence they removed the ad?
I do wonder tho. Why is Lexus holding out on the supposed IS500? The car has been seen numerous times going around the N'Ring in Germany, in both coupe and sedan form. With Audi, BMW, MB, and Caddy offering V8 power, no doubt Lexus wants to be the first Japanese maker to follow suit.
The RX is due for remake in only 4 years? Very much out of the Lexus norm. But hey, things do change, except that by the time the LX570 rolls around, the LX470 will be 14 years old since the SUV has been on sale in Japan and the Far East since '97.
BTW: Since you're closer to Lexus than I am, please tell them, for all intents and purposes, please do not go from bad to worst in regard to the SC. The bulby body of the current to the frown of the 6-Series-like model will for sure keep things confusing for the once elegant car. The love I have for the 6-Series is akin to the love you have for a sweet ugly girl: The best is on the inside.
Don't get me wrong. The S65 is the best thing with 4-doors to get to 60 in 4 secs. flat. But the utter opulance the S600 exhibits makes it the best thing for the money. And I get 20 MPG on the highway, with all of the MB stuff standard. The only option was the moonstone metallic paint w/ anti scratch/chip. And for the heck of it, I ordered a set of 20" AMG wheels with Michelin run-flats. Total cost: $146k, including freight and MB worry-free 120k mile Extended Protection from head to toe. To hear the the thunder from a German V12 without the need to ever have to worry about something breaking: Priceless.
Let the fun began.