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Good question. The line about a V8 "killing the car's handling" doesn't seem to make a lot of sense considering the M3 and RS4 obviously don't have any such problems. Nor does using hybrid power. Unless they come up with vastly more powerful electric motors, an IS450h would only be good for 340hp or so, which would barely be enough to offset the extra weight from the batteries. Additional problems come from the fact that hybrid power eventually runs out, and no hybrid thus far has what would be considered "high performance" brakes.
If they are worried about the 5.0L V8 being too heavy, it would make much more sense to use turbocharging rather than hybrid power.
The RX is due for remake in only 4 years? Very much out of the Lexus norm.
This RX will have a five year run just like the last one, '04-'08.
As for the SC, I hope they mean that they are just using the basic proportions of the 6 series and will make the next SC lower and longer, and not copying actual details such as the "catfish" face and "trunk from another car" rear. Looks wise, the 650 is I think the worst of them all.
M
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
To soothe out my pain, she bought me some Ben & Jerry's. I have a smiley face now.....
A fine place to look for one. I don't believe I have ever read a negative review there for any vehicle. That is why I recommended people looking for a "feel-good" review of this vehicle to turn to them when the review is published.
A more well-rounded review is found in the "Times Online."
They give the car 4 out of 5 stars which is very good.
However they qualify that with "Technically an Audi A8 is a less accomplished car than this-it lets you feel the bumps in the tarmac and is less able to block out noise from the engine, road and wind-yet it feels more luxurious."
and "The LS 460 may well be the most technologically accomplished saloon ever created. Call me picky, but these days I'm not sure that's enough."
The first drive they ran last week didn't say much. Nor did they say when to expect a comprehensive test drive.
Logic tells me since they already did the first drive, the road test will have to follow. Should be sometime in October.
From the first drive, it is obvious that the LS 460 is a huge improvement in the looks dept. over the current version.
Lexus did a nice job on this vehicle's appearance.
To my eyes, the LS 460L is not nearly the looker the LS 460 is.
And the rags are right, the car will be the most technology-packed car in the class, even more so than the Microsoft-cerified 7-Series.
But will it be enough to be taken seriously by the Europeans? On paper, they have all of the boxes checked. But as the '01 proved, they still had some work to do when it debuted. The '04 refresh corrected some, but much was still wanted.
I hear that Lexus is getting serious about the supposed LS460 "Sport". They have approached Delphi, the bankrupt but functional GM sub, about fitting the car with the electromagnetic shocks that make the Vette, XLR, and new Ferrari's corner like they are on rails yet retain a ride so supple that you soon forget you're driving a car that is so capable.
The '07 appears to be better apportioned. The styling is primo, not annonymous like the current. I personally like the styling, but a test drive will definetely have to make me a believer, if not a total Lexus convert.
Already the admittedly small consensus of reviews praise this vehicle for technological sophistication but condemn it for lack of driver involvement. It "practically drives itself" seems to be the consensus phrase.
This car will sell well. There apparently are a lot of people who prefer luxury over exciting performance when they enter the HELM realm.
This car was made for them. Count me out.
I must admit, however, the new LS460 as seen on MotorWeek is a very good looking car.
Short or Long wheelbase\
2 powertrains
17" up to 20" wheels
14 standard color choices at launch
And these are just a few of the long rosters of goodies the car will pack.
BUT: Sources say the 345hp S450 is on the way, with more standard features than the LS460, with probably a $70-75k start. The funny thing is this is a better car with more standard features over the '06 W220, but for 5k less.
See team Lexus: MB and the golden "L" can go friendly in the same post.
"Comfortable seats, quiet cabin, smooth V-8.
A bargain compared with German competitors."
"Styling isn't groundbreaking.
It's still not a driver's car.
Chassis is balanced, but it likes to lean in corners.
Teriffically bland to the enthusiast."
These are the exact same comments the autorags have been making for years about this vehicle's predecessor, the LS 430.
Doesn't seem like much has changed according to influential "Car And Driver."
Pardon me while I step off the line.
Count me out!!!
In looking at the pictures the car appears unbalanced in SWB form, like I saw in person at this year's past auto shows. The LWB version looks like a slab-sided barge.
There are some interesting details...it appears the engine is totally covered in plastic from top to bottom, and the electronic cam phasing.
Overall though it seems the Germans have nothing to worry about on the dynamic front. Features galore and beige leather everywhere and a little less isolation than before it seems is the general consensus among the auto mags.
M
According to them not much has changed.
I read elsewhere on another thread that the autorags "wouldn't dare" give the LS 460 a negative review because of the power and influence of Lexus.
Guess again!
Yeah I read that too. Amazing how everyone outside of the magazine knows how they conduct business. One minute the mags won't give a Lexus a good review because they're biased and love Euros too much, now they won't give the LS a bad review because of Toyota. Nothing but the same ole cry baby excuses concerning car magazine reviews.
Motor Trend showed their bias months ago when they printed that the new LS would have a 350hp V8 and a 7-speed tranny (early info before they actually saw the car) yet the actual review on the actual car is glowing.
All the magazines that put the LS on top before I guess didn't know what they were talking about then either.
M
I hope they test it with the new sportier suspension because we can safely predict what they will say if they test the basic LS 460 (which would be a shame).
Well, well isn't this a great surprise? The LS460 is a bargain but also an incredibly bland car for an enthusiast.What else is new?
After reading some prior posts here I thought this car was going to be the New Jerusalem of the auto industry.
Anyone waiting for an LS that can compete with the Germans will end up sharing the same fate as the two gentlemen in "Waiting for Godot".
Eternity is a very long time!
The LS is a HELM with an emphasis on luxury.
The 550 is an LPS with the emphasis on performance.
They can overlap in price, however, since a well-equipped 550 can approach $75k.
I'm glad you found the 550 "striking" Tony!
As far as the rear goes, the spy photos of the next 5 Series show a distinct toning down of the Bangle tail lights-a little more "conservative" look.
The general consensus of reviews loves the luxurious appointments of the LS 460, but gives it a big yawn for driveability.
Exactly what they wrote when reviewing the LS 430.
I've got a lot of heavy duty reading to do tonight.
I don't think the S550 really leans toward performance that much more per say, it just manages to offer that smooth ride with a greater sense of the road than the LS does. That has always been the key for the S-Class.
M
When you consider the fact that the LS is currently the most successful car in the world, I can only hope that Lexus has not changed this winning combination too much. Why in the world would the LS need or want to compete with the Germans when the LS is already so far ahead of them? With their comparitively small sales, the Europeans have been relegated to the "botique Class".
I do not like the self parking feature and hope that they rethink this and eliminate the thing. It is totally over the top and unnecessary. I also think that the trouble Audi had a few years ago with the phantom unintended acceleration will pale into insignificance when the lawsuits start to hit involving this self parking gizmo. What were they thinking?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If I'm not mistaken, isn't it the Europeans that outsell the LS 14-1 in it's mainland Asia? Or the fact the LS isn't a blip on the European radar sreen, the home of the all out luxury car segment?
Yes the car is hugely successful here in the US, the biggest car market(for now until 2012 when China says it'll take that spot) where it counts, but the whole world? Not even close. There are some parts of the world who have not even heard of the LS, or even Lexus in general. Yes there is a lot of talk going on here for the LS, but this was the same thing when the S550 bowed out. So I don't see any difference.
That being said, I agree with you on the self-park feature. Sure it's nice to have even more gadgets to justify the worth of a car. But to take away the drivers ability to park the car is something that should've been left at the idea table.
BTW: When the 7-Series debuted for the '02 model year, the car got completely slammed for having a knob to control virtually everything in the car and for having a stubby joystick as the means of putting the car in gear and the styling, well. Well a few short years later, EVERY luxury carmaker is following suit, including the no-nonsense maker Lexus. Do you find this the least bit strange that the car everyone loves to hate is now a trendsetter across the board? Even the Bangle styling can be seen in a few cars nowadays.
Whatsupwitdat????
And chickens have lips.
Wrong. None of that is true or makes any sense. The LS isn't the most successful car in the world, not by a long shot. It is the bestselling car in the HELM class in this country only. In the rest of the world the S-Class, 7-Series and A8 run the show. The S-Class has moved over 50K units worldwide as of July. The LS isn't even close to that.
The BMW 7-Series and S-Class aren't anywhere near being "botique" status in sales and the S-Class isn't anything close to being "botique" in status either, it sets the standard for the class worldwide. Period.
Lexus is the one trying to go global with the LS, not the other way around when it comes to Audi, BMW and Mercedes, they're already global.
M
According to the reviews, the car is a snooze.
Every review of it so far has used similar words to describe the LS 430-nice inside and boring to drive-to quote "Car And Driver": "Terrifically bland to the enthusiast."
The only reason I am discussing this car at all is because it is listed above as one of the HELM vehicles on this thread and thus, my comments on the reviews, are apropos this discussion.
I dont recall seeing anything iDrive-esque in the new LS and the traditional gear shift lever is still where its always been
C&D’s test said that you turn the “Auto Park” feature on once in reverse and need to specify on the screen where the car should park it self; they then mentioned this process added an additional 20 seconds or so.
I personally can’t imagine pulling past a parking spot and inputting auto-park co-ordinates for 20 seconds inevitably somebody would pull in head first a la Seinfeld.
BTW the feature won’t operate automatically, you’ll need to ride the brake; so you really are in control of the vehicle the whole time – sort of.
We should not try to teach or educate the customer about what he or she wants.
Panke's point contradicts Idrive when you consider how much educating and learning is involved with such a device.
Contrary to Panke's opinion is the Toyota/Lexus approach in trying to educate their potential buyers on the virtues of driving hybrid. Also Toyota/Lexus is trying to re-educate the public about the non-importance of crappy hybrid real world MPG figures by focusing on the the positive affects of lower emissions instead.
Personally I like Panke's approach better despite Idrive.
But then again, I definitely thought the Titanic would float.
I do like their steam powered system. Hybrid power is a fantastic idea for things like taxis that are almost always in stop and go traffic, but not so much for highway travel.
I'm getting tired of reading all those British reviews emphasizing how good those cars are.
I'm getting tired of reading all those British reviews emphasizing how good those cars are.
Me too. I am also tired about reading how good a Audi TDI drives. :mad:
Many things can be considered a big waste of money.
There are many V6 engines with V8 power now. Does anyone relly need a V8? And now there are Hybrid 4-cyl with V6 power (and 4-cyl economy), V6 Hybrids with V8 power (and V6 economy).
Which Toyota Hybrid did you have a problem with? The Camry getting 37MPG, with V6 power? The Prius getting 45MPG? The 330+HP Lexus getting 23MPG? Or the 430+HP LS getting 22-23MPG?
Kinda sound like a guy who says "I'm not gonna buy an iPod now, because in 2 years, they'll just make something better?
So I'll keep my 8-tracks....."
I'd rather be better from now on, instead of getting around to it someday.
DrFill
But to offer a frivilous feature like self-park makes the BMW look staid in comparison. The technology should've went no further than park-assist sensors front and back.
Sounds good. Which hybrid are you buying? Or do you have one already?
No smoke. No clatter. No smells. No batteries in the trunk taking up valueable space. A clear winner that BMW needs to get serious about bringing to the States.
BUT: They're not alone. Audi absolutely needs to bring the now US-ready new A4/A6 TDI to the States. The car(as of now until MB installs the water vapor canister on the BLuetec) is the cleanest and most fuel efficient of Germany's big 3.
Sources say that the car will come first in the A3 to the States, the the A4 latter in the '08 m/y with the new car, just in time for MB when they start things off right with the new C-Class, with a version of the 3.0L Bluetec diesel.
If you include something about other Forums' members in your post, it is guaranteed to receive a thorough treatment of host Kirstie's patented and most effective Post-B-Gone!
I have a license ...
:shades:
(By the way, post titles count - be careful when you are using the reply link to note what the title actually says.)
The hyrbid GS which I shortly considered (a few seconds of consideration was involved) before buying my 5 series. The GS trunk space was the main reason why I did not even bother waiting for a test drive
I'd rather be better from now on, instead of getting around to it someday.
Currently I feel better without a Lexus Hybrid! My environmental conscience remains content and stain-free with a traditional internal combustion engine.
But, for example, if I were looking to get a family sedan, #1 on my list would be the Camry Hybrid. Not even sure what my #2 would be.
Kaisen is in.
DrFill
Unfortunately we will not be seeing a steam powered BMW before ten years. By then Toyota/Lexus will have improved its hybrid systems to such an extent that a steam powered Bimmer will look like a joke in comparison.
BMW estimates that its future turbo steamer will boost power/torque by ten percent and fuel savings by fifteen percent. Ten full years to accomplish that? Woopy Doopy Dooo!
In about two years there is talk of a more powerful turbo hybrid Prius that can achieve 100 MPG. This Prius technology will expand to Lexus autos shortly after two years.
In terms of Lexus we are talking two years and not a decade like BMW. Unfortunately BMW does not have the funds like Toyota to pursue their steam endeavors sooner.
In the future Toyota's dominance in hybrid technology will translate into higher powered/torquier/ more fuel efficient/lower emission Lexus models that potentially will be able to outpace any German auto with diesel, steam or traditional internal combustion powered engines.
Unfortunately the Germans with their diesels are faced with the headwinds of emissions regulations. As a result Blutec and future TDI technology will be more expensive than current diesel models and the price premiums of hybrids versus diesels will narrow and in fact may become favorable for hybrids(there is far more innovation potential for hybrids than diesels).
In my area get 28-30mpg thru town and 35-37 on highway. Whats not to like?
It depends on the driver. There are a lot of suburanites who struggle with downtown parking . In my case after decades of daily downtown parking there is no computer that can park better than me. NONE!
Kasparov may have lost a chess match with an IBM computer but there is no way a Lexus computer can beat me in downtown parking .;)
You've never met some of the women in my family then, or my brother in law, who can't parallel park in Burbank, if they're the only car on the block..... It's not the worst idea I've ever seen. I predict there will be plenty of bluehaired women who want that feature, no matter the cost.