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Wow what a combo-- a 08 Audi A4 in North America with both a new MLP platform and TDI. Cant wait for my test drive in 08.
M
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Whoa you’ve been married 35 years and still put up a 73 on a tough golf course? Whew, you could be my idol if it wasn’t for that LS.
;-)
That will be my choice too. I will chose that over the ES. However I have some doubts about the ones going to be made in U.S. (will that be all the hybrid made in U.S.?)
A nice road trip will be in order, of course.
Lexusguy - you posted some very interesting data from autonews.com. My biggest reaction to all that news was regarding the Lexus SUV strategy. It seems to me that Lexus has lost their way in the SUV market, and is now trying to get back on track.
I can only wonder what the new SC will be. I have my doubts about it, but I suppose it couldn't be much worse than the current version. We'll see.
Also, the LS460 is commanding lots of attention, and rightly so. The interesting thing about this to me is that after the dust settles, I still think it is all rather predictable. Overall the LS460 is better and more refined than the LS430, but nonetheless is still an LS, and this latest version parks itself.
Admittedly, the LS600hL is the only LS that really sparks me . . . because it will genuinely be an exclusive vehicle (at least for a while), and legitimately raises the bar.
TagMan
I can only wonder what the new SC will be. I have my doubts about it, but I suppose it couldn't be much worse than the current version. We'll see.
I think the JX350\460 is going to kill sales of the GX470. The 4Runner platform isn't good enough to compete with the Q7 and GL. The JX most likely won't have low-range, locking-diffs, etc. but most people wont care. The era of body-on-frame luxury SUVs is pretty much over, and Lexus is stuck with two of them.
As for the SC, there's no where to go but up. The IS\GS platform has at least the potential to make the car reasonably fun to drive, but my guess is that they will make the IS350C the "fun" one and the SC will remain a cushy cruiser.
Lexus is clearly behind the eight ball here, and is not living up to its potential in its "pursuit of perfection" by any means.
Their new SUV's had better address the third row seats in a more civilized manner than those Mickey Mouse flip-flop window-blocking finger-busting contraptions they've been peddling off on folks so far.
My guess is that they are going to get the next ones right, and sales will be brisk. A Lexus variant of the RAV4 is a good idea, IMO, if they can doll it up enough. The market will gobble up a small SUV loaded with quality and features.
As for the SC, there's no where to go but up. The IS\GS platform has at least the potential to make the car reasonably fun to drive, but my guess is that they will make the IS350C the "fun" one and the SC will remain a cushy cruiser.
Yeah, lots of upside and little downside. The IS platform should do it well. The styling must improve, of course. No more bathtub for the SC, hopefully. So, you think that they'll hold back on the "fun" and go with the "cush"? I can see that, but that would ignore the competition. Utilizing the IS platform, they should be able to bring the SC in at a pretty good price, and still include plenty of zip and luxury. They've got another chance here to do it right.
TagMan
link title
Of course I posted this on the LS forum.
TagMan
"The brakes are a real disappointment. You will find a small dead patch at the top of the pedal's travel. You push through that, only to find the brakes arriving in rather too much of a hurry."
This is unfortunately the second review I have seen criticizing the new LS 460's grabby brakes.
Those of you looking forward to soon driving the new LS 460, just be careful out there!
M
M
Howard says it is the second review he has seen regarding the brakes. Maybe he can confirm the first?
TagMan
The North Rhineland-Westphalia Design Center has announced that the Mercedes-Benz R-Class is to receive its most coveted award, the “red dot design award – best of the best”.
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Go figure.
TagMan
TagMan
I thought the review was "hot off the press" today.
Guess not!
Therefore, no trend yet on the brakes-although the "4Car" description of the brakes of the 2007 LS was disturbingly similar to what I experienced driving the GS430 last year. Really super-sensitive brakes-no contact at first touch, then a jolt as more pressure is applied.
OTOH, "NCTD" wrote the brakes of the 2007 LS460 "feel perfectly normal," though as I have previously stated, I have yet to read a review of a car that "NCTD" doesn't like.
We'll just have to stay tuned concerning the brakes.
Well, the current car drives like a convertible LS430. The new car will probably drive like a convertible GS430. Better, but not something that will worry the CLK\SL, 6, or XK. It will also probably come without options like the current car, which means that unwanted things like electric VGRS steering and E-brakes will probably be standard equipment. I'm more interested in the updated Maserati coupe with the new 5.0L, 470hp engine.
But if you are looking for a driving experience similar to that of the 7-Series, don't bother. The all-independent suspension has been tuned on the soft-ish side, which is great for long, straight cruising, but not so great for fast, tight cornering. That really should not be a great surprise, given the history of the LS and its target buyers.
The available air suspension helps tighten up responses, but make no mistake, this is still a luxury cruiser. The electric power steering, meanwhile, does have quite a nice, useful feel to it and the LS itself has the best turning radius in its class.
So this is a beautiful car, one that feels tight and well-crafted. Will it draw away owners who have grown to love the feel of German luxury sedans? Perhaps, but it is more likely that it will mostly please well-heeled buyers who already like the feel of the current LS. But we'll have to see. Perhaps the LS hybrid will offer a more aggressive feel as it goes about making luxury high performance in the image of Lexus and, of course, Toyota.
SOURCE: GLOBE & MAIL
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A positive review of the LS from Toronto's Globe and Mail.
The new LS is a great high tech luxury limo crusier. Nothing wrong with that at all!
Unfortunately certain Lexus press releases have compared their upcoming cars to BMWs . I guess that is why there is a certain degree of disappointment at this point of time in terms of GS and LS reviews. Most reviewers who test Lexuses complain about soft suspensions especially when compared to BMWs. That is truly a shame since the LS will be the best high tech Limo cruiser that money can buy.(at least for the price)
Please note the author's last paragraph above. The writer anticipates a more agressive feel in the upcoming hybrid Lexus. Unfortunately the author's anticipation will be disappointed as the hybrid LS will likely have a soft suspension(a trademark feature for the LS). Unfortunately the ample power of the hybrid LS combined with a soft suspension will not add up to much in terms of an agressive feel.
My prediction for 2007: We will be reading new reviews expressing disappointment with the hybrid LS because of its lack of agressive feel when compared to the 7 Series.
Have you tried the Porsche Cayenne (S, Turbo, Turbo S - but not the base v-6)?
In my experience, it outhandles the X3 in corners, and in straight-line acceleration...
Would like to see some 3rd party vindication of that though.. the Porsche just seemed more solid, leaned into corners, and never balked at anything I threw at it...
/DA
What does this have to do with HELM? :confuse:
PS - I kinda always thought of Porsche as rather high-end!
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So . . . it turns out that there isn't really any improvement in "quiet" according to Lexus' own chief engineer, but rather they have focused on changing the characteristics of some of the sounds, such as the ever-popular sound of the door when it closes.
This is not to infer that the sound isn't respectfully quiet in the new LS, but all the hype has been that it is going to be some sort of super-quiet breakthrough . . . and in REALITY . . . the chief engineer himself says it is about the same as before.
Bottom line . . . no improvement.
TagMan
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/business/article_1195321.php/Daimler_Chrysler- - - _begins_diesel_offensive_in_Japan
Have you tried the Porsche Cayenne (S, Turbo, Turbo S - but not the base v-6)?
In my experience, it outhandles the X3 in corners, and in straight-line acceleration...
Would like to see some 3rd party vindication of that though.. the Porsche just seemed more solid, leaned into corners, and never balked at anything I threw at it...
Yes, I’ve had both a Cayenne S and X3 as loaners when I brought my cars in for service. It’s really comparing apples and oranges since the weight difference is almost 900 pounds. Although reviews note the good handling characteristics of the Cayenne, they also mention that the weight cannot be ignored. You know, there is only so much you can expect from a 5000 lb vehicle with high center of gravity.
Daimler Chrysler begins diesel offensive in Japan
“Those tires don’t help stopping distances, either; we measured a pitiful 209 feet from 70 mph ”
We should be getting all of these by the end of the year, hopefully sooner.
I predict several of them will mention the grabby brakes.
The reviews I have already read, from GB and Canada, pretty much come to the same conclusion regarding the LS460-wonderful appointments and interior, boring to drive.
In other words, except for some styling retouches, the LS 460 is essentially the same car as the LS430, with the most significant new option being that the new LS can park itself.
That new option fits right in with the true demographic of the LS460: people 65 and older, with the emphasis on "older."
He set the review up with an intended insult to Lexus by stating that they were only "A regional player" and another intended insult to Americans (The Lexus Region I assume) by calling us all "Fat Cats".
I cannot remember ever reading a U.S. review of a European auto where the reviewer tried to insult the manufacturer or the European clientele. This particular European reviewer has a huge inferiority complex when it comes to Lexus and the U.S. And he should.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The words need no clarification from me:
"After nearly two decades, Lexus still lacks a flagship sedan to rival the BMW 7-Series and Mercedes Benz S-Class in price, performance and prestige."
The 2007 Lexus LS 460 "feels soft compared to rival luxury sedans."
Have you tried the Porsche Cayenne (S, Turbo, Turbo S - but not the base v-6)?
In my experience, it outhandles the X3 in corners, and in straight-line acceleration...
Sounds stupid to me. The handling of SUV should be measured by offroad tests. Say, how many hours did it take the X3 to cross the Safari?
I think that X3 is still working on it. Top Gear's X3 got stuck in some tall grass. Its an SUV in name only.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Thanks on your input of the S600. The Conti Flying Spur is a great ride, with build quality that would make a Leer Jet seem like coach. The power delivery is akin to a 747-000 jumbo jet engine, very linear and turbine smooth.
Well, if the Bentley is the 747, then for sure the S600 is the LM- F/21 fighter jet. The power is so instantaneus that it's almost scary. Again I go on record: No maker in this class of car makes a better powertrain, V8 or V12. This car has absolutely no dead spots in the power band, and the transmission is so intune with the engine's power that it kicks down with authority with the instant stab of the throttle.
The build quality of this W221 is akin to how we ooooo and aahhhhh when the '81 S debuted. Nothing was like it at the time. The car's interior is a study of some of the best craftsmanship to come out of Germany in a while, albeit, still a notch below Audi in workmanship and fit/finish, altho quality is up considerably.
That said, I'm extremely happy with my purchase. With the S8 to complement it, I should be content for a while.
But that is precisely why many people buy an LS. Most the people I know favor ride comfort over anything else. A stiff ride is not what they are looking for.
That is why I drive a BMW Touring wagon instead of an X series SUV.
He sounds a bit harsh. But an inferiority complex?I doubt that very much, unless his Psychoanalyst can confirm this
Many people who unfortunately cannot step up to the ultimate HELM, which IMO is the Mercedes Benz S-Class, can still purchase a good-looking entry-level HELM which provides quite a bit of luxury, if at the expense of a boring ride and no status.
There seems to be quite a few people in that category in the USA.
One thing's for sure. If they had the $$$ for the S-Class, the LS would be virtually obsolete.
I agree with something else you posted.
Lexus would be wise to concentrate on what they do best and stay far away from attempting to compete with BMW.
That is a loser's game for Lexus, IMO.
I'm thrilled for ya, man.
Again I go on record: No maker in this class of car makes a better powertrain, V8 or V12. This car has absolutely no dead spots in the power band, and the transmission is so intune with the engine's power that it kicks down with authority with the instant stab of the throttle.
Great statement and terrific testimonial.
Are you saying that the engine actually has something called low-end torque and that the tranny doesn't need an 8th gear?
TagMan
There seems to be quite a few people in that category in the USA.
Now would that be your BMW you are referring to?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Exactly! Building a powertrain with 8-speeds with only 4.6L just to say that you can produce this much power with this small engine is a bit gimmicky to me.
8 gears are overkill, plain and simple. At least when MB went from 5 to 7 gears, they reduced the size of the housing and cut 34lbs from the transmission. Now that's an accomplishment.
MB E55 Ad
Its technologies are better than any of these and better than any in this world, quite frankly. If you look deep enough, you can get 600+ horsepower, which is something you dream of in one of these. And with a name that was at one point practically synonymous with luxury, where else would I go?
Other thoughts are the Audi A8/Phaeton (on the inside, that's what it really is and we all know it), the BMW 7 Series (don't care about iDrive frustration), the Lexus LS (maybe the 600h coming up and not the 430, who knows?), the Maserati Quattroporte, and if absolutely necessary, the Jag. The following have been listed in value order.
I don't know why you'd count it out.
Lexus is a high end luxury marque despite the protests of those who spent more and received less on comparable German marques.
If brand and image is all that matters, then why not get a used Bentley or Rolls? Why constrain one's choices to MB, Lexus, or BMW? Why not get one of each? I own both German and Japanese cars (Porsche and Lexus).
Owners who are insecure with the image they project by their car purchases are problematic and drive much of the discussion on this board. Really, who cares what anyone thinks of your car? I'm sure your neighbors have about the same amount of envy and contempt for whatever HELM car you own.
What's important is the enjoyment and utility of your ride, whatever that may be. Live and let live.
Truthfully the LS460 and LS600hL will be all the luxury car that most buyers will want or need. It will have all the features the German cars and ride softer than the A8 or 7-Series and likely on par with or slightly softer than an S-Class, but it appears that it still doesn't challenge them dynamically. This is why a lot of buyers prefer the Euros, the sense of being connected to the road that Lexus hasn't been able to, or isn't will to put into their cars. This is all the British reviewers are saying, not that the car isn't wonderful or that it somehow isn't a major league luxury car.
The reviewers that are heavily in to aesthetics are always going to find something wrong with a Lexus because no matter how much Toyota says that Toyota and Lexus are separate they still share the same design traits and philosophy. Even the interior shapes and designs of the new LS and Camry are very similar, just that the Lexus has been turned up 100 percent in the material quality and feature content. Why this can't be admitted by the Lexus faithful is beyond me, but it is true. Then you have the numbers game that Lexus is trying to play. Mercedes comes out a 7-speed transmission 3 years ago and it is seen as engineering overkill, but now that Lexus ups it by a gear it is seen as some engineering breakthrough. Mercedes offers a hard drive with this much space so Lexus offers one with that much space. Number of speakers of a sound system has is also upped over the competition and yet we're to believe that this makes the new LS head and shoulders above everything else on the market, particularly the S-Class. That is nonsense, so yeah there is going to be a rift on this board when folks are so blatantly promoting a double standard.
I'm still trying to figure out what a "dual-mode CVT 8-speed" is that I see mentioned on the other board.
M
Lexus and Infiniti (and Acura) will be WISE to compete against BMW and other German brands. All three carmakers are doing very well and making a lot of money. I would love to have hpowders call me a loser if I can have the success Lexus (Toyota) has been enjoying in the past 16 years.