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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    ficuss,

    Good choice! The G35 is great entry lux sedan.
    I wouldn't have bought the 7-series with the 4.0L V8 in it either, even if it was a new engine.

    HOw's your G35 equipped? Color? How much discount you get?
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    I leased the 03 black G35 with leather, winter package, and premium package. They would only budge 7% off list. In keeping with the overall car buying experience over the last 25 yrs, I still feel like I was had, but I like the car. They have a new thing now, instead of calling it a lease, they call it a purchase with a baloon payment at the end. Anytime during the 4 yr. period, I can buy or sell the car. I can refinance the amount borrowed if I choose and make my payments early to save on interest charges. Payments are made to a bank, not an automotive credit issuer, like GMAC. I'l let you know more tomorow, after I pick up the car.

    Frank
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Sometimes they call that a "look alike", but it's an open ended lease.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I can't believe the S600 topped the brand-new 760Li in Car and Driver comparo. Of all the magazines in the world, this wasn't supposed to happen at Car and Driver.

    M
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    Are the magazine editors biased? Yes. Are they telling their reader what they think? Yes. Are they objective? Probably not really, no.
  • tasillotasillo Member Posts: 51
    I too just received my new C&D and read the BMW vs. 'Benz comparo. While I do believe C&D was likely seduced to the unbelievably fast turbo 'Benz, I'm not surprised it picked it over the 760.

    I've spoken with several owners of new 745's and while no one hated their car, no one professed undying love for it either. Lot's of electronic gremlins and complicated controls that clouded their driving and owning experience. Recent Merceded products have had their share of the electronic bugs, but their controls are straightforward and with close to 500 horsepower, I'd say the big Mercedes would be my pick as well, if I had 130k to spend.

    As is, I just ordered new Pirelli's for my 740 and still think the used '98-01 740i/iL is the best deal out there on the pre-owned market.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    So you don't agree with the verdict?

    M
  • aki86aki86 Member Posts: 15
    What about the 760 puts it on top for you?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Oh no I agree with their findings, I was just shocked because I've never seen a brand new BMW get beat by a 4 year old Mercedes. In this particular case the BMW didn't have it's usual head and shoulders handling advantage over the Mercedes, it appears they handled equally. The Mercedes is way faster, better looking, easier to use. BMW complicated the 7-Series for the sake of doing so. The BMW has a higher quality interior though, and I applaud BMW for sticking to a normally aspirated engine, but Mercedes has cleaned their clock in hp.

    M
  • t6553gwt6553gw Member Posts: 18
    After I drove the 745i two days and 2002 S600 with 360 HP two hours on the free way, my conclusion is 745i is a better high speed crusier
    then benz, with 745i on 100+mile/hr I was relaxed and admired BMW engineering while I start to feel the speed on Benz after 90 miles/hr.
  • aki86aki86 Member Posts: 15
    Oh. Your post made it seem like you expected BMW to win. I know what you mean though.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah...we're talking about Car and Driver....BMW's biggest fanclub.
    I expected the Benz to win, but when I read C&D and there is a BMW in a comparo I assume it will win always....though there are better cars in the comparo (as in this case). This the rare instance their BMW lust didn't take hold.

    M
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    C & D would deny that vehemently, by the way.....
  • kjllawkjllaw Member Posts: 2
    I currently own 528i which I purchased about 3 years ago. Aside from the loose exhaust, constantly squeaking doors(probably due to the door moldings(?) made of cheap rubbers) and blown climate control fuse, I did not have much problems with the car. I was actually planning on purchasing the new 745i in September when the new 5's goes on sale. (I actually loved the new exterior design). I thought the great performance and the prestige was worth a few trips to the dealership from time to time... UNTIL NOW.
    I've just witnessed a brand new (3 month old) 745i parked right next to my 5'er burnt to the ground. The car's engine caught on fire RIGHT NEXT TO MY CAR as he was trying to pull out of the parking space of a shopping center for no apparent reason.
    The fireman (came in 2 minutes after called. Good work!) after putting the fire out said that it is probably due to a bad electrical wiring. The owner of the 7, an asian man probably in his mid 50's, was almost crying as he saw his babied 7 go down in flames. Luckily, my car was fine except for the inches of dust that fell on the car from the fire.
    I was aware of the electrical issues with the new 7's. But seeing it in person was an awakening experience. I've owned 2 BMW's during the last 7 years and I was dead set on purchasing another one. Today's incident TOTALLY made me change my plans.
    WHen you purchase a BMW, they subscribe you the BMW magazine for free as a compliment to the owners. It almost always contain pictures of totalled BMW's with owner's letters thanking them how the car saved their lives. May be so. But it would be nice to see the totalled 7 with the owner face in shock in their magazine.
    No matter how great the performance is, it is not worth the risk you are taking in terms of reliability.
    I was never a fan of Toyota's (I used to despise them). But right now I think my hard earned dollars are probably going to go to Lexus the next time around. It just makes sense.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Wow. That's a bit unsettling.....thanks for sharing. My partner has a 745i, he's down in San Diego with it right now. Has had a ton of little problems with it so far. But this is a big one.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    My point (above) was the magazine editors have opinions about the cars that they drive, and when they do a comparison, they probably do have a favorite. I think BMW earned the position they have had. I also think the editors try to be objective, but there is going to be some bias creeping in. Most of the magazines have not added a CTS to their long term test fleets. Perhaps they are waiting for the 2004 3.6 liter engine, which is going to be available only with the automatic (at least to begin with).
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I've been around - I got back from Chicago on Thursday - but I'm staying out of the merry-go-round discussion on the Lexus vs. MB board this time. Some Saturday this summer I'll get around to a local dealer that sells RR's and Audi's. It's where I tested the old A-8. I'm actually interested in taking a look at the new RR. I did think the paint job on the A-8 I saw at the auto show was the best I've ever seen on a car. Audi doesn't skimp on anything in/on the A8 - that is for sure.

    Everyone of these cars is up to auto excellence standards and I can't imagine that anyone of them will disappoint the buyer if bought for his/her desired automotive reasons. I've gotten used to great reliability so I'm spoiled by it. The fact that Lexus LS delivers the ride and quietness I love coupled with that reliability leads me back there.

    I think autospies is 50% guess and 50% real on facts. I'm interested to see how accurate they are with the 2004 LS redo they talked up a while back. I did read it there first and it was quite a while before anyone else picked it up. By the way I'm curious as to what you thought of the GS redesign they showed. I thought it was a great looking car.

    Lastly - where is the A8 redesign in the mix of S,LS,7 and A8? Is it first and in the lead or last and catching up. I always thought it was in the lead on the redesigns followed by MB, Lexus and BMW. If that is the case than you have to measure it vs. the redos of the other 3 as they come out. One great thing about the A8 is its scarcity. With only 2k a year sold here you are rather unique on the road when you drive one.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Ok I'll go for that. I do think the editors already had it in their mind about the 03 CTS so it's probably best that they get the improved version for a long-term test.

    ljflx,

    That board will never be the same without your participation!! Anyway I haven't seen the autospies picture of the GS redo. I'll have to look it up.

    It's hard to say who is where with redoing their flagships. The A8 came out in 1994, but wasn't sold here until 1997. So it was out before all of the current S/7/LS models. I guess I don't look at it like that with Audi because the A8 had been around so long.....it's probably safe to say they've leapfrogged the current group of cars. It's a stunner. I want to hear about the RR Phantom the minute you take a look at it.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You know what I just read your post again, did you mean Rolls-Royce or Range Rover?

    M
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    Well, I for one, would not buy the 2003 CTS because of the opel V6, knowing that the 2004 model would offer the new 3.6.

    The magazine editors probably have their minds made up before any of their comparison tests begin, so it takes a very good car to over come their bias.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Range Rover.

    If you want to do a 50-50 deal I'll buy the Rolls with you. I'm sure neither one of us will mind driving it back and forth to where we live. By the way I like it more everytime I see it in pictures.

    I'll post on the other board but not in a circular discussion where everyone has already made their points. I do agree with you on your BMW 7 "fire" point - its a quick jump to a conclusion that may be dead wrong.

    If you check autospies for the GS take a look also at the S redesign for 2005 or 2006 they showed. I also thought it looked great though I saw a post on the S board - I believe - where someone said they didn't like it at all. It looked like a logical evolutionary design for the S so I thought it might be accurate. Let me know what you think.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah right....you're in a much better position to get a Rolls than I am. I couldn't come near the 50/50 deal...I probably could afford about %10 of it...lol.

    Well you know I think the Range Rover is the best lux-suv on the planet. I personally don't like it's exterior mainly because of Civic-racer tailights and side fins...but the interior is off the chain. I know you think the TLC is the best so I'm really anxious to know what you think about the Range Rover.

    I'll check those pics.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I looked at the pictures of the furture S-Class and GS. The GS looks more or less like the HPX concept crossover. That makes sense considering Lexus has stated they are going for a unified family look now. That picture of the S-Class I'm not so sure about, looks too much like the current car to me. I don't trust that website too much anymore because the majority of what they report is pure bs through and through.

    M
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Agreed, merc1, imho alot of the stuff on autospies is pure conjecture or sensationalized for the sake of building traffic to their site. I think they will have egg on their face when the 2004 LS comes out, because I highly doubt it will be the "totally new" exterior that they proclaimed a few months back. I also agree that their "scoop" picture of a next-gen S is nearly identical to the current S and so I doubt that story too.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Autospies is mainly B.S.

    I remember before the last LS430 came out, they showed supposed pics of the 2001 LS430 and they rendered it as having a sloping rear deck like a Jaguar's. They were completely off the mark.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    My opinion - the Range Rover is the best SUV on the planet ONLY for rock crawling. It's probably the very best for going straight up a mountain, because it's designed for that. But if you drive an SUV for more routine transportation, hauling, towing or just light mountain camping, etc., nearly anything is a better choice. The Land Cruiser would be better, certainly more reliable, better engine, etc. Personally, I don't like the looks of TLC at all, but there's no denying it's a good truck.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The Land Crusier has a better engine? Oh really, they must have upgraded it since last I checked it was THE weakest engine of any SUV in that price range.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The Mercedes site that *used* to be right on the money everytime:

    http://mbspy.bacosys.be/index2.html

    Traffic has slowed considerably at this site for some reason. They were without question the best site for insight into Mercedes-Benz.

    M
  • bstotmeisterbstotmeister Member Posts: 1
    This may be a day late and all, but regarding the problems with a circa 1995 7 series BMW....

    I was recently looking into this, and from 1993 to 1995 (think that's correct) BMW used a nickel alloy engine, called Nikasil. This alloy, combined with the relatively high sulphur content of gas sold in some US regions, hastened pitting of the cylinder walls. BMW extended the warranty, but if you buy it used, you're probably not going to be covered.

    BMW evidently had some success with this engine/alloy in their motorcycle line. It did not translate well to automobiles, however.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I have no personal experience with TLC because I don't like the looks of it, but I hear tell the Rover's engine is trouble prone. I'm betting TLC, though weak, is dependable. But if I'm wrong, I stand corrected. I know the Sequoia is weak from personal experience, so you may be right.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well.......

    TLC/LX470 - 235hp
    Navigator - 300hp
    Escalade - 345hp
    Range Rover - 282hp

    I clearly see the inferior engine in the Toyota products. You'll have to do a little better than "hearsay" as far as the RR having engine problems. It's the same engine as the current BMW 540i, thats been around since 1997 so I hardly think it's bug ridden now.

    M
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Sorry merc, having not owned one, all I have to offer is what my friends who own one have said.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Inferior horsepower - not an inferior engine. I know two people who have had Range Rovers and they had terrible experiences. One's in a TLC now and the other is in a LX470. They would clearly not share your view as both had engine problems.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    That's all I'm saying too.
  • tasillotasillo Member Posts: 51
    Please take the comparison of SUV engines to the proper forum. The fact that the RR has a BMW V-8 doesn't make this the place to discuss.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    If hp isn't a trait of an inferior engine then you'll need to explain what you're talking about a little better than coming up with that "I know people this and I know people that" stuff. From a pure engine design standpoint 235hp is pitiful in a class of vehicles that all push 280hp or better. Two experiences CERTAINLY don't make an inferior engine either, not at all. Then I have to ask whether or not you're talking about the new RR, because it doesn't share anything with the previous model.

    M
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I learned a long time ago that where there is smoke there is fire. Everything I've read over the years states that a Range Rover is a trouuble prone vehicle. Then the only two people I know who've had one (one was a 99 and the other was a 2000) have problem after problem. Proof enough for me. Technical prowess and beauty isn't worth much if you can't or don't have confidence in the automobile.

    If I'm going to spend $60k plus on a vehicle I expect perfection or something real close to it. I think in the future you'll see that cars that don't live up to that will lose market share - MB included. People may look past things once but most don't get burned twice.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Thats too bad that you don't realize that new Range Rover is a new from the ground up vehicle and shares nothing with the previous generation. The 1999 and 2000 model is completely irrelevant to the current model. Yes the old model was trouble prone. I'm not sure where the new model stands in the all-important surveys. I suspect its not setting any reliablity records, so I have to ask why even bother looking at one?

    Sometimes (like in this case) I can't believe that you're seriously holding those two cases against such a fine and completely new vehicle. Since you already have what 3(?) Lexuses I think you should really check out something that isn't a Lexus. Live a little. Even I wouldn't have all Mercedes-Benzes if I were in your postion.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Maserati Quattroporte:

    http://car.kak.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=- article&sid=1045

    Set to take on the S-Class, 7-Series, A8 and XJ.

    M
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Member Posts: 241
    I expected it to be a little more volumptuous somehow, probably because of some of the concept sketches I've seen, like the ones below:

    http://car.kak.net/bilder/maserati/maserati_quattroporte03s.jpg

    http://car.kak.net/bilder/maserati/maserati_quattroporte02s.jpg

    http://car.kak.net/bilder/maserati/maserati_quattroporte01s.jpg

    Maybe I'll have to see it in person and get the full effect of mass and proportion, but right now, the XJ and S-Class are my picks for best looking cars in the class. I do like the Buick-like vents along the side (I'm not being sarcastic - I think they really jazzed up the Park Avenue and look good on the Quattroporte too). The way the doors meet the bottom of the car reminds me a little of the 7-Series though, along with the rather bland, blank sides themselves, and that's not a good thing.

    http://car.kak.net/bilder/maserati/maserati_quattroporte04s.jpg

    I really want to like the car, but it just doesn't seem "fresh" or "new" or inspiring enough from these pics to capture me yet. The Maserati coupe/convertible were already a few years old before they came here (well, the coupe and its general styling which transfered to the convertible that was new), and I had already seen the coupe in Europe with the different rear end styling - which was more unique and desireable than the U.S. version IMHO. This Quattroporte carries a lot of the same theme, and I find it a little dated already. The interiors I've seen elsewhere were beautiful though. I think I just have to become more accustomed to it, but Maserati's designes seem bland IMO. Just get a volumptuous Ferarri and be done with it, or a Jag or Merc.

    http://car.kak.net/bilder/maserati/maserati_quattroporte05s.jpg

    I do like the hood proportions and the way the A-pillars meet the body of the car - looks a little Aston Martin to me, but the rest of the exterior of the car dissappointed me.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I was kinda thinking the same thing. It doesn't have as many curves as I thought it would have. I'll reserve final judgement until I get to actually "see" it.

    Jagboyxtype, what do you think of the new A8?

    M
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Member Posts: 241
    I haven't seen it in person either. However, I think it has a pretty clean, organized design all around, with a sporty Germanic, machine flair to it. I like how the wheels fill up the wheel wells - Audi has always styled the flares around the edge of the wheel wells nicely, and I like the simple pillar arches and their shapes. The C-pillars taper nicely into the rear quarters at good angles from the rear 3 quarter views I've seen. Overall, I'd say it is a handsome car. But like the XJ, it may be a little too conservative in some peoples' views, though its sheer size (I've read it's larger than the S-Class, 7-Series, and XJ) might give it a lot of presence on the road. The interior also looks to be quite nice in a simple modern fashion as opposed to classic, almost overstated elegance like the XJ - but both come off well. I like the unclutteredness of the car's detailing, and can definitely see how VAG is trying to make the Audis look sporty and upscale v. luxurious and upscale, as the Phaeton fills that role. Truthfully, beyond that, I haven't really given it a whole lot of thought though, so I hope I haven't dissappointed you with my rather skin-deep analysis of the vehicle. Though it's aluminum intensive, I also read that it is still quite a heavy vehicle and that it doesn't feel exactly light the way the other aluminum car here does - the XJ - but I haven't actually checked the weight stats on the cars, so I cannot be sure. Stylistically though, it gets great marks in my book, as do S-Class and XJ (and you know how much I like those, so it's a real complement).

    CAR did a comparison that I gave a cursory glace at, but I did not read the whole article; just the captions for the pictures - and you know what car I was interested in within the group. Didn't the A8 win the comparison? I believe it did, and the Jag didn't do so badly either. They were rather harsh to the Bimmer, saying something along the lines of it trying to scare the Jaguar away with its ugly rear end, and at another point saying that although the XJ was following the 7 in the photo, the XJ was a superior vehicle. I didn't read much about the A8, and that might be its only flaw - it doesn't grab attention so much as the curvy Jag and sleek Mercedes (at least in photos) - even the 7, though not aesthetically pleasing in the traditional sense, grabs your attention. But that is the problem with photographs - the proportions and sheer mass of the vehicle do not come through to create the car's presence, and Audi's styling, being modernized, sporty-simplistic, relies a lot upon balance and dimension for its true effect. A lot of the beauty of the car is in its 3 dimensions.

    For market shars, the other cars it is against also all have names that carry solid reputations: BMW is supposedly "the Ultimate Driving Machine" and the hot thing right now - it is known to be a great drive and technologically advanced to a perplexing degree; Mercedes is more luxury oriented but massively powerful and holds its own in terms of performance, it is to some the ultimate status car and is known to be solid all around with technology under every panel that doesn't confuse the driver like iDrive does, though Command may have to be learned for a few minutes; Jaguar, though with a bad rep for quality (despite being one of the top brands in terms of quality in reality), also carries a powerful name that to some is up there with Mercedes-Benz, it is slightly mysterious being that its numbers are more limited and its world class wood and leather interiors are iconic along with the leaping jaguar hood mascot - from its Le Mans racing history, the words "Jaguar" and "speed" have become synonomous, and the beautiful cars feature styling like no other - they also carry a reputation for having snooty drivers, but the repuation is half of the fun - they are ultra smooth with fantastic rides and perhaps the epitome of refinement. The A8 and Audi, however, are still developing a meaning as I'll call it, and while Audi has gotten a pretty good connotation, "A8" is not as widespread as "7-Series", "S-Class", or "XJ." Maybe this will be the A8 to solidify its name into widespread fame and acclaim; it seems like it is off to a good start.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    See post #2288, I posted some some of the ending comments from that comparison. The A8 did win. They called the Jag a better car than the BMW. High praise indeed. If it wasn't for that dangone Phaeton I think the A8 could really hit the big time here now.

    M
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Member Posts: 241
    I think if word gets out about the A8 enough, it will get the sales it deserves. Phaeton is a great car, but it is also a Volkswagen - a "peoples' car" - and in this class, people do buy into the image of the car as well as its tangible traits. Audi is already upscale, so the A8 does not face the battle the Phaeton faces of becoming recognized as a real luxury car. But as I said, the competition has solid names already, and this A8 will have to fight to secure its own name among them, as I don't feel the previous one - however marvelous it may have been - was successful, or as successful as Audi would have wanted it to be, at doing that. This one is beautiful and engineered right, so it just may be the A8 that gets the recognition it deserves.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I do not see the appeal of the VW, speaking of image......
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Member Posts: 241
    That's what I meant - most people don't view "veedub" as an image car with the same appeal of a leaping cat, roundel, or tristar, but the quad rings of Audi are recognized as a marque with (almost - it still needs to become more widespread) the same appeal as Jag, Bimmer, and Merc, so that is already to the A8's advantage over the VW Phaeton. VW has more image to build than Audi does as an upscale brand = advantage A8.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I think VWOA is having second thoughts about the uber-peoples-car here, they still haven't said "when". It was supposed to go sale this spring.

    M
  • dwongswongdwongswong Member Posts: 62
    Hi everyone! I'm new to the luxury car board. I recently got an Audi A6 in February. Since then, I've already put close to 11,000 miles on it. I really like the way it drives--comfortable, fast enough for me, like the way it looks, and feels safe with the quattro. I've owned three BMW's before I finally got the Audi (a friend advised me to get one). Though I did research on it and found out that it had many, many bad reviews on the Audi board, I went ahead and purchased it after seeing it in person.

    The three BMW's that I owned (I still have a 2000 model), all have had numerous problems with them. The first was a '94 525i. I spent an extra $11,000 on the car fixing it after the car overheated and killed the engine. Plus, the glass fog lights kept breaking every few months whenever a small rock hit it. The second was a '00 323Ci. I had to replace the speakers, amplifier, wood trimmings, instrument cluster, outside temperature gauge and door moldings (twice). The 2000 328Ci that my wife drives has had the VANOS intake system, wood trimmings, and door moldings (twice also) replaced. The only reason I haven't traded it in is because my wife likes the way it looks and likes to drive cars until it is at least five years old. A BMW specialist told me recently that BMW's are not made to be owned more than 60,000 miles. They are sprinters; not marathon cars like Japanese vehicles.

    I've been following the news about the 2004 Audi A8 L every since I first saw it at Autoweek.com. It's the best luxury sedan I have ever seen. I even sent AudiUsa.com an e-mail telling them how in love I was with it when I saw it. I wish that I could afford one, but not in this economy right now. Maybe someday.

    For those of you who don't like Japanese luxury cars, I tell you this--no car, in general, will last as long and as easy to maintain as the Japanese brands. Many of my relatives and friends own them, and they all have never had any complaints about them. They may not look as good or drive as nice as the Germans, but they are fine cars if you intend to keep them for several years.

    If there are any owners out there who like or dislike their luxury cars, please post on this board or e-mail me at dwongswong@yahoo.com telling me the likes and dislike about these fine cars. I want to know so that I can have an idea about what luxury car I want to get next. Also, if there is anyone who just got the 2004 A8, please let me know about your experience.

    Thank you! And as always, drive safely out there.
  • benzownerbenzowner Member Posts: 20
    why don't you try a mercedes there very good cars too.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Try asking on the A8 board, I think there are two people there that just got new 04' A8s.

    M
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