Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

High End Luxury Cars

1…449450452454455…463

Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Thanks for the update. FWIW, my experience with my previous Boxster was mostly very good with only one exception. That single exception would have cost me a few grand if it hadn't been for extended warranty coverage. However, it is fair to point out that it was not a common incident according to the guys in the shop.

    That said, an M3 sounds like a very good choice for you and the wife, as would be the Civic for your teenager.

    I hope it all works out as planned. Like D-man, I'll believe it when it actually happens. :)

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    So I figured, why not an M3 instead of its distant cousin, a 330ci...

    So you want to buy a reliable car and what do you end up wanting to buy? A BMW M3!

    A reliable M3? Says who?

    Consumers Report? No confirmation about M3 reliability
    JD Powers? No confirmation about M3 reliability.

    I myself have no experiences owning a M series but I can confirm to you one experience that I did have. Every BMW dealership I have visited so far has a big board with Parts Prices. And on every board there is an asterisk below with a statement claiming that the parts prices above are not applicable for M Series models. I asked a services rep. why M Series prices are not listed on the board and with a grin the services rep. said "those prices would scare off all potential M series buyers".

    Even if in the unlikely scenario happens of owning a reliable M3 it will still be expensive to maintain.

    Anyways good luck with your decison.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    H---Remember my wife owns the 530x (stationwagon, and it may be 535) so I drove it when I returned the Honda, which is fun to drive as it is so simple....Truly I do think the versatile and different cars -expensive to less expensive- for a change is a good practice as you really notice the differences over a few days...Other than the interior quality, I don`t think you will find a car that is more to your liking than the BMW...For me the interior is worth the change...Tony ps a little better today in market--not much
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I enjoy renting small, cheap cars at the airport when I travel.
    Many of them handle quite well at the expense of inferior seats and cheap plastic, of course.

    I'm a bit tired of the BMW interiors-pretty much the same across the line-the wood strip gets a bit wider as you go from the 3 to the 5 to the X5 and 7. That's about it. LOL!

    Audi is predicting record sales. I do believe their time has finally come in the USA.

    The selling may not be over. One more scary downturn to shake out some of the "weak money." Try to ignore it. :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm a bit tired of the BMW interiors-pretty much the same across the line-the wood strip gets a bit wider as you go from the 3 to the 5 to the X5 and 7. That's about it. LOL!

    Well, its pretty much always been that way. The last 3, 5, and 7 also had the same interior in small, medium, and large. It seems like Audi is moving in that direction as well, as the A6, Q7 and A5 are almost identical on the inside.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I'll see. I've yet to drive an Audi vehicle. I enjoyed sitting in the A8 at the auto show. The driver's seat was quite comfortable and the interior was first class compared to the 7 Series and my 545.

    Indignity of indignities: My wife who knows nothing about cars and cares about them even less, pointed out to some folks we were shuttling to a restaurant in the BMW that the wood in my 545 was actually phony plastic! When I begged to differ, she broke out in hysterical laughter!
    What a revoltin' development that was!!! :(
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Well, real hard wood is only $200 a cord :-) How much is a cord? More than the EPA passenger volume for a large sedan, stacked solid with wood.

    I have always wondered how thin the wood applique has to be in order to avoid blasting the occupants with wood splinters like a shot gun in case of an accident ;-)
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Agree. I wouldn't consider M3 for reliability either. For weekend fun car, yes :-) From what I hear, E46 M3 engine tend not to last very long in the hands of someone who does not drive with care, especiall before it is fully warmed up. That makes buying a lease return a questionable proposition.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    LOL!! :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. When you get into M territory, one is really talking about a weekend toy for the lucky few, much like a 911, I guess. Both vehicles entirely wasted here IMO with US driving restrictions.
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    "Mercedes-Benz R500: brake pedal clencher

    ^^This is what leaped to mind after I nearly plowed through the turnstile when trying to leave the office yesterday. I don't recall the R500's brake pedal having this much initial pedal mush before generating actual braking power. Almost as if the pedal free play has increased over time. I'm sure my fellow editors will let me know if this is real or if I'm just losing my mind.

    --Jason Kavanagh, Engineering Editor"
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    "Consumer reports car auto reliability survey
    David Champion, the magazine's director of automotive testing, blamed one model for Lexus' fall, the midsize GS that was redesigned last year. He said the car had problems in three areas — body integrity, defined as rattles or poorly fitting panels; body hardware, such as locks and trunk mechanisms; and the sound system.

    The model still rated average and earned a purchase recommendation. All other Lexus models were better than average.

    Toyota officials looked at the bright side. "We had three of the top five. It reflects well on our products," spokesman Xavier Dominicis said.

    Mercedes, DaimlerChrysler's luxury brand, tumbled four places to the cellar, "a very poor showing for a very expensive car," Champion said. Mercedes' quality is so imperiled that a 9-year-old Lexus LS 400 has potentially fewer problems than a new Mercedes ML. Champion said of Mercedes: "They perform well, have great fit and finish. But they seem to have a lot of problems with the seven-speed automatic transmission in all their products, and power accessories and electrical systems."

    Predicted reliability of brands by Consumer Reports survey

    1. Toyota
    2. Honda
    3. Scion
    4. Acura
    5. Lexus
    6. Subaru
    7. Hyundai
    8. Infiniti
    9. Mitsubishi
    10. Mercury
    11. Mazda
    12. Audi
    13. Lincoln
    14. GMC
    15. Volvo
    16. Ford
    17. Kia
    18. Buick
    19. BMW
    20. Pontiac
    21. Chevrolet
    22. Dodge
    23. Chrysler
    24. Nissan
    25. Saab
    26. Suzuki
    27. Volkswagen
    28. Mini
    29. Porsche
    30. Saturn
    31. Cadillac
    32. Jeep
    33. Jaguar
    34. Hummer
    35. Land Rover
    36. Mercedes-Benz
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm surprised that Cadillac did so poorly, I thought they were doing better lately. On the other hand, a great result for Audi.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Aren't you surprised at the Jaguar result? I know I am.

    Remember, though, these are just predictions.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Aren't you surprised at the Jaguar result? I know I am.

    Not really. Their data for Jag all comes from the X and S-type, I think. I don't see M-B being worse than Land Rover.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I don't see M-B being worse than Land Rover.

    I don't think anything is worse than Land Rover. And yes, the X-type and S-type Jags totally ruin the reputation of the XK and XJ, which are far superior vehicles, and by themselves would, at a minimum, be in the top half of the list. And I imagine Porsche's reputation is distorted and held down by the Cayenne's early dismal record. Shame.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I don't think anything is worse than Land Rover.

    Actually, in TG's '06 survey, Land Rover placed 29 out of 35 manufacturers, beating out the French, and Fiat, Jeep, and Mercedes, who placed 30th. Jag placed 9th, BMW 11th, and Audi 15th.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Feb 07 Sales US Sales Numbers

    BMW +15.2% at 22,274 (2/06: 19,328)

    Audi 37.5% at 6,609 (2/06: 4,806)

    Lexus 6.6% at 22,518 (2/06: 21,127)

    Obviously Audi sales increased mainly because of their Q7.

    But what is less obvious is that BMW may not only be the number one luxury auto company globally but may also become the number one luxury auto company in the USA by the end of 2007.

    22,518 Lexuses vs. 22,274 BMWs while BMW sales growth is more than double the growth of Lexus sales.

    Lexus must be sweating buckets right now! :cry:
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Those figures are B-U-N-K!

    Pardon me but those are the most polite four lettered words I can find to describe those CR results.

    On a annual basis those reliability ratings fluctuate to the point where they are meaningless. I find JD Power and CR reliablity figures as being as unreliable as a 99 VW Golf. One year Porsche is ranked at the botton then the next year they are ranked at the top and then the following year they are ranked among the bottom. How on earth can anybody rely on those figures?

    Audi reliable? LOL! I know family members, clients, friends and my personal experiences with owning a Audi to know how unreliable Audis really are. I dont need CR to tell me how reliable Audis are.

    There's a fellow at the Luxury Performance Sedan Forum who owned I think about 25 Audis these past years and he himself dreads the thought of keeping an Audi beyond warranty.

    Nuff said!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    The only car driving BMW sales is the 3 series, hardly a luxury car. A performance car, yes, but not luxury. If you want to compare luxury, compare the 7 series sales to the LS sales. Then see who is sweating buckets.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    And Lexus sales are driven by.....?

    The LS? Nope! It's driven by their more humble rebadged Camrys and Highlanders. Also Lexus sales are driven by their entry level small IS models.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    I thought these rankings were based on a combination of performance and reliability. Probably weighted toward reliability.

    Some of you may disagree with the rankings or act like you are surprised, but there are no surprises here. It is what it is.

    That said, I would never base a new car purchase on CR's opinion by itself.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Nice little dance step there. Again, lets compare the LS to the 7 series. This is the HELC board.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Some of you may disagree with the rankings or act like you are surprised, but there are no surprises here. It is what it is.

    It is what it is indeed.

    There is a doctor here in Ontario Canada who showed with statistics that a Sagitarius person is 48 percent more likely to get a broken arm and that astrological Cancer individuals are 28 percent more likely to die of heart attacks/strokes than cancer when compared to the general population.

    So much for statistics.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I'm sure my fellow editors will let me know if this is real or if I'm just losing my mind.

    Well at least his candid about losing his marbles. Hopefully he regains both his sanity and his appreciation for MB R500 brakes.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "BMW...may also become the number one luxury auto company in the USA by the end of 2007."

    Yes, Dewey. There will be no stopping BMW's momentum.
    People crave to drive the best performing vehicle in its class, whether it's the 3, 5, 7 or X5 along with those eye-catching, breathtaking Bangle designs, which seem to be copied en masse by everybody else, these days.

    It's about time that the USA gets in sync with the rest of the world: BMW is indeed number one. :shades:
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Feb 07 Sales US Sales Numbers

    BMW +15.2% at 22,274 (2/06: 19,328)

    Audi 37.5% at 6,609 (2/06: 4,806)

    Lexus 6.6% at 22,518 (2/06: 21,127)

    4,418 of your YTD "BMW" numbers are actually sales of the Mini brand. Maybe we should lump in any Toyota units that are priced at or higher than the Mini when tabulating Lexus sales?
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Generally, I wouldn't respond to such an opinion, but I've owned 10 Audis and everyone one of them has showed no problems. My current three are a picture of perfection with other than only oil changes. I too have many friends that have Audis that experienced no problems. Try as you might to diss Audi as is the standard on this forum, the CR results are based on predictions not made up as some intellectual excerise, but based off surveyed results. Obviously, these trends represent a level of predictibility based off these results. There are always some cars from every carmaker that may suffer issues. However, surveys such as this represent the overall majority result.
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    "For the real head-slapper, look at the bottom, the very bottom of the Consumer Reports' 2007 Annual Auto Issue, beneath Ford, beneath GM, beneath VW, the Koreans and even lowly Chrysler, now living in automotive limbo as its owners decide whether it's worth keeping.

    Look at which brand the editors of America's most respected, if occasionally flawed, consumers' magazine say they could not recommend at all -- not its bellwether sedan, not its roadster, not its American-made SUV, not even its flagship S-Class, ostensibly a statement about who's behind the wheel."
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Syswei,

    are you sure you are not mistaken? According to Reuters Lexus and BMW sales (excl. Mini) are about equal and even better BMW is growing at a far rapid pace than Lexus.

    here are the Feb 2007 BMW US sales figures from Reuters.

    Total BMW + Mini Sales = 24642
    Total BMW Sales Excluding Mini = 22274

    FRANKFURT, March 1 (Reuters) - German carmaker BMW's (BMWG.DE: Quote, Profile , Research) U.S. car sales rose 11.9 percent to 24,642 units in February, the world's biggest premium automaker said on Thursday.

    Sales of BMW brand cars and offroaders rose 15.2 percent to 22,274 units powered by the 3 Series coupe and stronger demand for the X5 and X3 sport utility vehicles, while Mini sales fell 12 percent to 2,368 cars.

    SOURCE: link title
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    1. Toyota
    2. Honda
    3. Scion
    4. Acura
    5. Lexus
    6. Subaru
    7. Hyundai
    8. Infiniti
    9. Mitsubishi
    10. Mercury
    11. Mazda
    12. Audi

    Reality I am not trying to diss the Audi brand. I myself and the Audi drivers I know yearn to buy another Audi. Also BMW, MB and Porsche are not renowned for reliability.

    What is so praiseworthy about Audi being #12 in the first place? It certainly doesn't mean much if you are Mitsubushi or a Mercury driver. Is reliability so important for luxury cars? Is it mere coincidence that the three top brands for reliabity are non-luxury marques? Apparently people are willing to pay premium luxury prices for cars that are not exactly the most reliable. For proof just take a look at MB's CR rank.

    The virtues of owning a luxury German car are many. But I really find it hard to get excited about their subpar CR and JD Power reliability stats.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    It's about time that the USA gets in sync with the rest of the world: BMW is indeed number one.

    Maybe the USA. But certainly not this forum . ;)
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    You are correct, my mistake. I didn't look at the BMW release closely enough, and was fooled because they broke out SUVs separately.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I would rather be right than share a widely held opinion that happens to be wrong! :shades:
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,506
    Is this another one of those truncated scales?

    If the top guy is 141 and #12 is 35, that tells one story. If the top guy is 141 and #12 is 138.4, it tells a much different one.

    I get a kick (look at my moniker) out of newspaper bar charts that make things appear totally out of kilter, right up until the y axis scale is examined. Often it's from 100 to 105, NOT from 0 to 105, the way most people (well, the 12 who actaully care about a bar chart and know how to interpret it) think it is when they look at it.

    Enquiring minds. . .
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    When you get into M territory, one is really talking about a weekend toy

    You got it, Howard.

    But from reading from Dman, Tag, and Dewey about my interest in an M3, they all write like its taboo for a Lexican to own a Bimmer ! What gives ? Of course I'd like a car that doesn't fall apart, so I want something reliable. I don't plan it as a daily driver either. The Boxster intrigued me, but the spouse don't care for a 2-seater, so that was ruled out. Hence the 330ci or M3. Seemed like if you wanna get a real sporty Bimmer, get an M, so an M it is for me... No swammy panzi pretend 3-series ;) Now I read that you guys don't believe I'll ever buy an M ? I am disappointed in you guys, for having so little faith in me.... Is it bcos its a Bimmer, or is it that I'd never drive anything except a Lex ? Enquiring minds want to know.. ;)

    Last time I was car shopping (Dec 2005), I was in between a Porsche Cayenne and an LX470. I posted on HELM and LG mentioned all the unspeakable problems with the Porsche, that pushed me over the hump towards the LX which I bought (spouse's ride). I recall also mentioning a desire to buy an LS460 (for moi), but then things changed and I needed to go in a new direction, hence going sporty ride this time.... Its a search that'll last until I find the perfect car, whatever that is... I am open to other ideas/suggestions beyond an M... Gotta be a 2-door and/or convertible.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    But from reading from Dman, Tag, and Dewey about my interest in an M3, they all write like its taboo for a Lexican to own a Bimmer ! What gives ?

    taboo? oac, here is my exact quote from my reply to you regarding the M3...

    "an M3 sounds like a very good choice for you and the wife, as would be the Civic for your teenager."

    'nuff said? :);)

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    What about an Audi? There's the S4 cabrio, and the upcoming S5 coupe and TT-RS. SLK AMG? If you want to go really hardcore, there's the Elise\Exige.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, Oac, it's nice to see you are considering a BMW vehicle.

    Instead of an M, I would check out the 335i coupe: M-like power (0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds) and BMW's best-looking vehicle, IMO. The reviews have been universally ecstatic.

    FYI, the 335i convertible goes on sale this spring.

    My 2005 545 has been flawless after 20 months and I do believe CR gave it an "unreliable" rating.

    Plenty of BMWs out there and the company is doing well. People wouldn't be buying or leasing BMWs if major reliability issues were associated with these vehicles.

    If you are considering a BMW, I sure would recommend you lease one. Very fair leasing deals from BMWFS with a great warranty. Nothing out of pocket except replacement tires.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Tag, I think he’s referring to our comments that we will believe it when we see it.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    But from reading from Dman, Tag, and Dewey about my interest in an M3, they all write like its taboo for a Lexican to own a Bimmer !

    Oac, it is clear to me that you would like some sort of sport vehicle. My comment was based on your priorities with the family situation. Those priorities are very understandable and admirable. Heck, I lusted for a Porsche and didn’t get one until I was 53. I owned four Toyotas and two Volvos. No taboo here. Your time will come. You’re probably taking care of family concerns and that, my friend, is the most important thing. You seem to be doing the right thing as a good husband and father. The cars play second fiddle and we know it.

    Time for my yearly reminder. Car yentas... all of us! The cars and all of this blog blabber ain’t that important. ;-)
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Just found out that tires are not covered as wear items in the "pay nothing and drive 4years, 50k miles" marketing tagline. Talk about misleading! BMW's are once again crossed off the shopping list. It's outrageous. Tires are one of the biggest replacement expense in the first 24-36 months, assuming the car is not a complete disaster.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    pay nothing and drive 4years, 50k miles" marketing tagline

    LOL,

    did you honestly think the tagline above includes tires? Pay nothing for 4 years? If that is the case BMW should cover not only the tires but also the driver's gasoline expenses, car insurance and all travel/restaurant expenses during the 4 years/50k mile term?

    BMW and every single auto firm provides warranties on their new cars.
    Bridgestone and all tire makers provides warranties on their tires at a cost ofcourse.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I don't know of any leasing deals for any auto manufacturer where tires are covered when you turn the car in.

    What I do is replace the tires after 2 years whether they are worn or not. That way I get one year of use out of them and the tread will pass the 36 month inspection turn-in.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Thanks Dman, Tag, LG, Howard, etc... You guys renewed my faith in this forum... Heck, I was down on HELC just like Len was. But I think I'll stick around some.

    And Dman, a special thanks to you for those kind words... I truly truly appreciated those words... every single one of them. Thanks so much.

    An Audi S4 cabriolet sounds like a nice idea. I'll definitely check one out. And Howard's suggestions are pretty nice too. Howard, a couple colleagues of mine at work have the 335i. For some strange reasons this car isn't moving my spirit. To be quite honest, I'd rather like a Bangled version of the 3, rather than the muted inoffensive version. Which appears even more strange since my initial reaction to the Bangle-5 was "eeeewwwww", but now I simply love that car. Methinks its a beauty. Maybe I'll change my mind about the 335i as it grows on me... Maybe...
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Yes, as layers of importance go, all this car talk does not go very deep...but it is still fun. Good post.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Methinks its a beauty. Maybe I'll change my mind about the 335i as it grows on me... Maybe...

    I will not gush and rave here about my 335i since this site is not appropriate for such talk . But the 335i's twin turbo is what made it a done deal for me and I have no regrets whatsoever.

    The M3? . Currently my children and wife are already complaining about how fast I drive and how swift my turns are. As suggested by D-man I will wait another decade (when I hit 53) to buy an M3. At least by then I will be a older and a more youthful boy racer than I am today.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Just to add a quick note to oac... I think the new 335i convertible with its retractable hardtop and 300hp twin-turbo engine is a masterpiece. Sure the styling is a little less than dramatic, but it's still sweet enough, IMO, and everything else is near top of the scale. I would love to have one myself.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    By the way, the new 335i convertible will be BMW's first attempt at a retractable hard top roof. I hope to drive one sometime this spring.

    No way there could be any mechanical problems with a BMW retractable roof! :)

    A lot of folks will be sweating hoping those 23 seconds to close it go by without incident! :surprise:

    Those Florida thunderstorms can do a lot of damage very quickly to fine Corinth...I mean Dakota leather! :sick:
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    Maybe you want to give the Audi S5 a look when it comes out this fall.

    Handling should improve a ton, and I think it's a little better looking than the 3 series coupe. [Sorry Hpowders,Don't hate me cause I love Audi's :blush: ]
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles