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merc1. I think the germans are big in luxury. All cars costing 60K and up must both drive well and be luxurious. I think the S is the best looking. The 745i is second. LS is last. But all are nice. BTW. I am a german convert. I've owned E and S classes. I moved to the LS because I thought it was more luxurious on the inside where it counts (to me). I stayed in the LS camp because it was so reliable. I'm picking up 04 LS ultra to replace my 01 Ultra in three weeks. It it weren't for the Ultra trim, I'd still be in an S and living with its mechanical problems.
'nuff said??
Sorry Pat
There isn't anyone participating in this discussion that cannot be considered an enthusiast - else they wouldn't be here.
Frankly, it's just silly to accuse anyone who is a regular contributor here of not being an enthusiast. You might not agree with the person's opinions, but that doesn't make the person any less of an enthusiast than anyone else.
So let's move on and get back to the cars.
Exactly my point. OK enough already.
My colleague's 2003 C230 Kompressor/6-speed was a blast to drive. Did I tell you already ? As an LS owner, that was a different kinda ride for me. Taut steering, crisp and precise gear shifts, handles curves like a champ. I thought I was driving a 5-er. A little annoying problem with the electrical didn't do much to dampen my enthusiasm (that word again) for this car. MB makes darn good cars, just sad to see it messed up with little stuff like electrical circuitry....
Would I do the LS again ? Let me just say that I cannot wait for MY 2007. I will pay CASH for a 2007 LS4/5xx. I have been saving for it (thanks to home valuation here in San Diego hitting the roof), and although I have the cash right now, I won't sweat the 2004 model. I like it, but not as much as the *promised* MY2007 version. Did I tell you I cannot wait for Oct 2006 ? See, I plan to put my money where my mouth is, no armchair quarterbacking for me.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Just curious why the general disdain for the X-type. I don't own one, but I've spent a little time in one. I just don't get the hatred of it. Really size, luxury and peformance wise it is very similar to the old Mk I and Mk II Jag sedans of the 50's and 60's. Good decendent if you ask me except for the AWD part. I would prefer the more traditional RWD. I actually don't mind the platform sharing (just something that we're going to have to accept in today's market) but the car seems well composed and for those that knock the interior, it seemed much nicer that the c-class and 3-series that it competes against.
The only big thing I can think of is that people have come to think of Jaguar as only being the XJ8 and anything other than that they reflexively don't like as a "cheap" Jaguar. I'll have to try to look it up, but I wonder what my '67 Jag Mark II cost in relation to the rest of the market? Probably was a "cheap" Jag then too.
M
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6959&sid=17- 5&n=156
BMW 7 - It sold a record level 20K cars last year but historically its best year previously was around 18k cars. It usually sells in the 14-15k range and I'll bet most of its buyers do not take advantage of its sporty heritage. I wouldn't say that about the 5 series though.
Maybach - it was obvious to me that sales were slow when I saw as many as 4 in inventory in the local sunday paper at Ray Catena. That's a lot of cars for just one dealership given the very low production element of this car. As well that was only a partial listing of available cars so there may have been even more on hand. MB will be making a mistake if they launch a mid $100K figure Maybach car. That is too close in price to the higher end MB's and will make people wonder where does one brand end and another begin. The big mistake they made seems to be that they made the car far too close to an S600 in the first place. It doesn't have enough of a new brand image to justify a $200k price premium. On the other hand the Rolls has no visual resemblance to any BMW car and is very unique. I guess that's the advantage of buying the brand rather than creating it.
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Pat - Edmunds gets its third straight JD Powers award. Edmunds is getting up there with Lexus.
The prices and residuals were - E430 $61.5k with a residual of $39k. Today the dealer retail is $37k and the consumers rated the car at 8.2. The A8L was $72.4k and had a residual of $39k. Today the dealer retail is a bit under $38k and consumer rating is 7.9. The S430 was $76.1 and had a residual of $49k. Today the dealer retail is $46k and the consumer rating is 8.3. The S500 was $85.3k and had a residual of $55k. Today the dealer retail is $52k and the consumer rating is the same 8.3. Finally the LS430 was $61.5k and had a residual of $37.5k. Today the dealer retail is $42k and the consumer rating is a sky high 96 (pretty clear this group of buyesr are real happy). Since the residuals were my buyouts I would have expected all the cars to have dealer retail above those figures but only the LS430 can make that claim - by a fairly wide margin.
I have no doubt I made the best choice then and will go for another ride. But some of these guys have really been burned on the residuals and the strength of the dollar worsens it even more.
anything all of us who want a safety feature , but dont want to allow anyone to listen in on us as they wish can do about this?
The fact that Lexus designed the sport version of the LS to out handle the base S-Class is their problem not Mercedes'. What kind of excuse is that? Secondly, I have not seen one single report in which an S-Class with the sport option gave up too much ride comfort, nor have I experienced it myself, having actually driven a 2002 S500 Sport more than a few times.
I never said anyone buying an S-Class was buying it for sport, my point is that the option is there and it's a real sport option, unlike the LS, which is merely a tire upgrade. The S Sport package transforms the car in looks and capability. Guess what the S-Class now offers just the option of upgraded wheels and tires too (without the body work). My point is that with an S-Class Sport you'll pay more and you'll get more than the LS' so-called "sport" option.
You should read up on the 7-Series board, they talk about driving far more than anyone on this board. The sportiness of the 7-Series is indeed a selling point, and if we're guessing you know I'd guess that more 7 owners use it than S or LS buyers.
You're right about Maybach. I've said all along the car was too close to Mercedes inside and out. It is too much like a super S600 than an entirely different i.e. special car. Both Maybach and Rolls fell short in 2003. I said from the beginning that neither of them would be able to sell 1000 cars a year in the U.S. There are just too many high-end cars competing for the most elusive of buyers in the 200k+ market. The dealer here has had one on the floor for a few months now too. Still they did move over 160 of them last year, at 300K+ a pop, and that was from June, not a full year.
Technically Mercedes didn't "create" Maybach, they revived it. Wilhelm Maybach was instrumental in the very first "Mercedes" cars and the brand the carried his name made some of the best cars on earth long ago. I know, I know it doesn't matter in today's market and isn't memorable to anyone under 80 years old..lol.
M
M
Actually you must be corrected. The S-class sport models are just wheels/tires and bodywork upgrades.
The LS430 includes wheel/tire upgrade and a slight suspension upgrade.
"Well its pretty much like I stated before, you've only rode and driven the S, but haven't owned one, but you are much more of an expert than me, though I've done the same things. Makes sense."
Well, ljflx, owns a LS430 and has driven S-class. Meanwhile you have driven one and not the other and you write like you have driven both, which you obviously haven't.
"Meanwhile you have driven one and not the other and you write like you have driven both, which you obviously haven't."
Wrong again, obviously you haven't been paying attention. Lets stay current here. I've driven the LS430. Granted things may have changed for 2004 in the LS' favor, as I haven't driven an 04' LS. So I'll take his word for the 2004 model.
M
I apologize for the slight error on the part of the airmatic suspension. But you were still mistaken by saying the LS430 is merely a tire upgrade.
And as you say "ABC is a option". That is another option on top of the already steep $5K+ premium for a sport package that returns only minor improvements in handling.
"Wrong again, obviously you haven't been paying attention. Lets stay current here. I've driven the LS430."
Right again, I haven't been paying attention. I actually do some work during the 8am to 5pm work hours.
Secondly, the ABC provides more than minor handling improvements. Look at the handling numbers for the S-Class in the last Car and Driver comparo with ABC+Sport pk compared to the previous S-Classes they tested without either, hardly minor differences I agree it is an expensive option but it is there.
"I actually do some work during the 8am to 5pm work hours."
Must we go here? I'm glad you do some work during those hours. If you'll notice most of the time I post late night, hint: I work a different shift from you.
M
You mention ABC+sport package. the standard sport package does not include ABC. Is ABC not another couple of thousand $$$ option on top of the regular sport package? And as I remember the regular sport package for $5K+ offers slight improvements in handling, basically due to the tire size and compound difference.
In my last post I was referring to the slight improvements in handling with just the sport package, not including ABC. I get C&D and read the review. The S500 is a great car with or without sport and ABC.
I have not driven the 04 Sport but would assume it has been upgrade substantually.
Here is what is available with my Sport Suspension..Stiffer springs, more aggressive shock absorber damping rates, a thicker rear stablizer bar for reduced understeer and special suspension bushings for a more immediate feel of the road, 17 in. tires.
Back to your separate corners folks. No one is going to win this and the rest of us don't want to wade through it.
Thanks.
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http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_1_web.jpg
http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_2_web.jpg
http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_4_web.jpg
http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_3_web.jpg
http://www.bomengen.com/gm/sts/STS_6_web.jpg
http://prn.newscom.com/cgi-bin/pub/s?f=PRN/prnpub&p1=20040324- -LAW036&xtag=PRN-prnphotos-37665&redir=preview&tr=1&a- mp;row=1
By the way I am hearing that the next LS will be more close in design to the LFS concept than the new GS is. I've also been told that they will have it in an AWD option and that a hybrid version will have over 400HP. Definitely a 2007 car but with a likely spring 2006 debut.
Since the new IS is scheduled to come to market sometime in the next 12-18 months, my bet is the car at NY is either a concept version or production version (labeled as a concept) of the next IS coupe.
The car shown in NY will be unveiled April 8 at a press conference and have a V8 engine.
Are you planning on attending the NY show?
I wonder when and how they will re-design the big suv's.
Yes - I will go to the show.
I do not know about that. If SRX XLR is any indication Cadillac is going to price its cars as high as imports. Remember they are not seeking to be value leaders but the standard of the world
This is an updated sedan de ville -- or at least an updated STS -- the last time I drove an STS it was a very very very nice land barge...sorta like driving my sofa in all the good ways.
Now the Magna Ride and AWD and other stuff may make it an alternative to a Phaeton or an A8L or a 7 serires -- and, hopefully it will be priced like a 5 series BMW or A6 Audi.
Don't hold your breath, you might turn blue.
Series, you might have a case but not with the new. Cadillac has a better stance all round.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6960
I guess only time will tell if this is rumor or fact.
The interior appears to be a bit of a dissapointment, better than the 5 series for sure but not up to an Audi or Mercedes standard.