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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra
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But in between buying the car and reselling it, there's the owning and driving. I prefer the way the Elantra sits and drives to the Civic, and there's no Civic 5-door in any case.
The real reason why you would go for the Elantra besides the price is the warranty... If you ask me, Civics don't seem to live up to their reputation of being trouble free any more; the result of cost-cutting and poor automatic transmissions. The Elantra's engine seems substantially more refined than the Civic Value Package Coupe I have to drive's. Why should we have to hear what sounds like cogs moving around in the transmission of a MANUAL? Anyway, the Civic seems less fail-safe than an Elantra in my opinion, and even if it wasn't it is going to be covered.
I put 25-30,000 miles on a car annually and I could not get a Honda as my next new car because 36,000 mile warranty coverage is unacceptable. At least with the Hyundai I will have 5 years of roadside assistance (which I don't think Honda even has), and around four years of coverage.
Of course the Tucson's ALG numbers are based on calculations on leases, it hasn't been out long enough for it to be based on anything else, like you said.
You cannot argue with math, but I am starting to believe that some people actually think that it is possible. Numbers do not lie. Do the math, and show us how a Civic has better resale than an Elantra, Backy, and then and only then will I agree with you that it is a "fact" that Civic's have better resale value. You constantly remind this board of the fact that there is a varitable buffet table of discounts on Elantras that render them considerably cheaper than their MRSP would suggest, and be sure to factor this in. I'd like to see how it stacks up.
As I stated above (and many other times on these discussions), you can make up for the steeper depreciation rate on Elantras compared to Civics by getting a good deal up front. Say you get an Elantra GLS for $10k and you could get a Civic LX 4-door for $14k. Suppose after the first 3 years, the Elantra is worth $5000-5500 trade-in (pretty close to my real-world experience with my '01 GLS). The Civic would need to be worth $9000-9500 to match that. Could you get that much in trade for a 3 year old Civic? Maybe, based on what I've seen in my area. But maybe not. If you don't get that great deal on the Elantra up front though, then it's a different story. After ten years, the Elantra might only be worth $1000 or so if it's in good shape, which means the Civic would need to be worth at least $5000. No way. So over time, the depreciation is definitely not a factor in favor of the Civic.
The E-VTEC models are not faster than the regular engines. You have to get a Civic EX which will be slower than a regular Civ because it weighs hundreds of pounds more with the sunroof and power everything, blah blah, and the HX and Hybrid are lean-burn engines that can't amount to any performance whatsoever. If you get a Civic, get VTEC for better mileage, not performance, because that is what it does. Though mind you, the Elantra has VVT (which is the same thing) too.
Moral of the story: when you see Civic EXs with giant VTEC badges everywhere and all the regular street racer attire, know that they have E-VTEC and that their car is actually (probably, if it is all show and no go which most of them are) a pretty slow machine, with variable valve timing to get better mileage.
Also, one thing about Hondas and Hyundais pretty much no one knows is that most Hyundais have variable intake timing. It's the same kind of idea as the valve timing, but for the intake, obviously. At different speeds, and this technology is standard-fair on the the Elantra (and not the Civic), various induction components will rearrange themselves within the airdam to increase how well the car respirates depending on speed. Interestingly, this system is available on Honda models, but only higher-end models. Honda seems to think this is an important technology, as it is important enough, if memory serves me correctly, for them to mention it on Acura's website under engine statistics.
...and Backy, I don't think he meant that it was the EXACT same mechanism or whatever, but it is the same technology, no holds barred.
ALSO, it is important to point out that Honda only puts variable intake timing on higher-end models, and VTEC on higher-end Civics, whereas Hyundai puts both standard on Elantras.
I think Hyundai is purposefully (and this is only seeming conjecture) waiting for the Civic to come out first so it can know what to beat. At least in small things...obviously you cannot design a car in the 4-6 months that the Civic will be out before the Elantra. Engine choices and things like that, however, Hyundai can easily change...fast.
Hyundai still has one important thing to change that it's processes can't overhaul in 4-6 months, that's the publics perception of reliability. Until people regularly see 10, 15, even 20 year old elentras driving around with regularlity like you do with civics, it's going to take some time. Maybe in 2015 when I see a bunch of 200k 2005 elentras on the garden state parkway on my way to work I'll personally consider them
The roadside assistance is actually a pretty nice benefit. I had to use it for the first time on my '04 GT the other day when DW locked the keys in the car. It took only about 10 minutes for the tow truck to arrive and the guy to open the car. That benefit has saved me almost $400 in AAA membership fees in the five years I've owned Elantras.
Thanks for the info.
I have been thinking about getting either a Civic or Elantra and am tempted towards the elantra because of the 2.0 ltr engine. I like to go camping a lot and one of my friends who has a civic recently busted his transmission while driving in the redwoods area. He has taken his car to a lot of the parks but has always complained about lack of power. The second reason is that I hate taking my bike on a carrier so I wanted something where I could take my bike inside. Is the elantra Hatchback space sufficient for a 26' bike?
Has anyone taken on trails in national/state parks. How has the elantra behaved there?
Get a mini SUV for that.
I think I've even seen a forum on Edmunds.com that's a 2007 Elantra site...
Can anyone help me out???
For example, if you look at the recalls for the Civic and Elantra over the last five years you'll see lots of design issues and parts issues--gas line design, bad airbag sensors, bad radios, etc. And where do the parts come from? Almost all the parts for Hyundais, even those built in the U.S., come from overseas. I don't know the percentage for Honda but I would guess the majority of Honda parts come from overseas too.
PS. I'm getting closer and closer to my launch date (hittin' the dealer lots and doing some serious hagglin'.) End of quarter comin' up. End of model year getting real close. Come on '06 Elantra's. Need ya to start showing up on those lots anytime.
What percentage of problems are due to owner neglect, maintenance, abuse, stupidity or ignorance? I had a Ford Aspire (built by Kia) for nearly 10 years, and it had one major problem in warranty (CV joint replaced) and one out of warranty (a bracket inside the transmission broke along a weld, costing about $400 to fix). Everything else was normal wear and tear. I only replaced the clutch once in almost 120k miles. The car was to large extent, bulletproof. Yet, overall reliability ratings for Aspires were not so good. Why? I would say the owner is a big part of the equation. Most people who buy a car like that are doing so because they want a new car but can't afford it. This was true for me at the time, but I knew enough to maintain it regularly, not abuse it, and fix little things before they turned into big things. I suspect I was not a typical Aspire owner in that respect.
Bottom line, if you take care of your car, a lot of these problems just don't happen.
By they way, have you bought your car yet, iowaelantra? I'm lovin' my new Elantra in Electric Red!
hey, backy,
i had read in previous posts that the elantra has a feature where you cannot lock your keys in the car.. true?
jo :confuse:
I purchased my 1984 Honda Civic Wagon DX in Feb 1984 for $8k. I am one of those “bad” car owners. At some point in the past 21 years I stopped maintaining it. I take it thru the car wash maybe once a year. I do make sure it has oil. Sometimes the oil level is pretty low; almost to empty on the dip stick. Due to its age EPA has offered me some money to get it off the road. The engine dies at every stop. I have learned how to pop the clutch so that I don’t have turn on the engine every time. In 2001 I threw another $3k at it to fix a broken cv boot (?) and other suspension related problems. Ever since that repair my Honda has had the most amazing acceleration power. It runs like a champ!
I think the Honda Civic Wagon is the best car ever designed and that makes it very hard to give up. I thought that when Honda brought out the CRV and the Element that they would be a good replacement for my little car but they proved to be much larger and way more expensive. I am soo angry at Honda for wanting to be a truck company instead of a little (small / subcompact) car company. They showed up on the SUV market so much later that everyone else. It seems that they can’t curb that momentum and go back to making little cheap cars.. which is how they started out.. remember the first Honda car with the little back window and tiny tires?
I never thought that I would consider anything other than a Honda but they just aren’t offering what I want. There was talk about the Fit/Jazz but I haven’t heard anything more about it. Of all the cars currently on the market, the Elantra Hatchback comes closest to qualifying as replacement vehicle for the Civic Wagon.
I am very encouraged by the positive experiences some of you are having with your Elantras. I am beginning to feel like a desperate shopper. It feels like the price of the Elantra will soon be more than what I will be willing to pay.. so I have to jump on it now while Hyundai is still offering rebates.
I will be reading the forum on Elantra problems before I purchase one.
Just another possible convert to the Elantra 5-Door Hatchback.. I too don’t care about the resale value since I will run it into the ground. I will be happy if it lasts for 10years. As has been mentioned in previous posts, poor resale value does not necessarily mean poor quality. I truly hope this is the case with the Elantra GLS Hatchback. I love its styling and all the standard features.
P.S. The Hyundai Roadside assistance was just as quick and courteous the 2nd time, too. Also, when the clutch on my '01 Elantra broke from misuse by my teenage son and he had to get a tow off the freeway access ramp to our house, Hyundai towed the car from there to the dealer and reimbursed me for the tow to my house. (They didn't pay for the clutch replacement, however.)
Also, if you can wait until March or so you might want to at least try a few other cars that might meet your needs: the Honda Fit should be out by then (and may remind you a lot of your Civic Wagon), and also the '07 Accent 3-door hatchback, the Yaris 3-door hatchback, and the Nissan Versa 5-door. The Rio5 and Spectra5 are worth a look, too. Might as well check them all out before you put down your hard-earned money.
Anyway, I found this out with respect to extra keys and locks and stuff: I had an extra key made up from a blank, with no fob or whatever. I can use it to unlock the door, but if the alarm is set, it goes off and the engine will not start. So it is helpful in a situation like Backy's wife got herself into where the "real" keys are inside the car, but if you lose the keys the spare will not help you out too much. (Maybe hide a spare set of full keys with fob in the car if you're worried about it?)
As far as the cars being looked at, the scion xA and xB could probably be added to the list as well.
Warner
Well, this is faulty logic because cars lose the most value the first two years of ownership. Do you agree?
I know for a fact that I didn't lose more than $3200 on my '04 Elantra GT in the first 18 months. I bought it for $13,200 + TTL and the last time I checked on its resale value, it was well over $10,000.
According to Kelly Blue Book, the trade in value today on an '04 Elantra GT with 41,000 miles on it is $7,420 compared to the '04 Civic LX 5-speed with 41,000 miles (and alloy wheels, which mine had and were figured in to the cost of the car at $15,100) whose trade in is listed at $9,730 (or roughly $2,300 difference). As I mentioned in several other posts on here, I actually GOT $11,900 for my '04 Civic on trade. I doubt that the Hyundai would get an equal boost on trade in, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has. And the $11,900 number is real - the price of the new car wasn't boosted to make that $11,900 number - I paid over $1,000 under MSRP for the new civic, in-line with smart shoppers on here who didn't trade anything in. So based on the numbers on www.kbb.com the civic depreciated $5,370 since I bought it (although I only lost $3,200) and the Hyundai would have depreciated $5,780. Only about $400 less based on KBB.com, but the question is what are the real world numbers? Based on my 2000 Hyundai wagon, it should STILL be worth $3,800 in trade in and I could only get $1,800 offered by the dealer (and this was a year and a half ago) and $2,600 offered by carmax. As I stated, I finally sold it privately for $3,650 which is WELL under what the listed private party value is for it today ($5,000) let alone a year and a half ago. So the numbers listed anywhere don't really mean squat. The only thing that matters is what you actually GET for the vehicle. Maybe some people can post their personal experiences when trading in their Hyundais (or even selling them privately) so we can get an accurate picture of what's really happening out there, instead of some crazy "book values"
Warner
I do think it is not apples-to-apples to compare depreciation on an Elantra GT automatic with leather, ABS/traction, moonroof, alloys, six-speaker stereo, foglamps etc. to a Civic LX. At the least the comparison should be to a Civic EX automatic. But even with this disparity, the difference in resale is only a few hundred dollars (btw, my Elantra didn't have 41,000 miles on it).
$13,200 - $7240 (assuming that is correct for an automatic GT hatchback with ABS and moonroof) = $5960
$15,100 - $9730 = $5370
Even if this is the true picture, I'd rather pay the extra $600 over the Civic LX and have the benefit of the hatchback versatility, automatic, ABS/traction, and moonroof. (Shoot, I learned on the Civic discussion recently that Honda charges over $500 for foglamps on a Civic--there's most of the difference right there!)