Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

evilpancakewom · May 2003

Personally I would not buy one unless you want the Interceptor suspension, transmission, engine, and brakes. I use to "work" with a P.D. They do not treat their cars nice to say the least. (Ex. The stains in the car is one example) The outside might look nice because most P.D.s require that you wash your Take Home Car (THC, not the drug, LOL) at least once a week. Even though all maintenance is paid for by the city/county or state it all depends on the Officer to turn the car in for scheduled maintenance. With CV Interceptors the NO. 1 concern is the transmission. That is the first thing that will give out.

ronslakie · May 2003

I have an 01 GM and have noticed recently that the fan speed on the blower motor has started changing speeds all by itself. This is mostly reflected in an increase in fan speed then it returns to normal and repeats this process over and over. It is not set on automatic climate control when this happens. Has anyone out there had this problem?

Ron

evilpancakewom · May 2003

Does this happen when you have the Air Condit. on? Does this happen when in your Park or stationary?
If so then yes, this is normal. This occurs with many cars, not just Ford. Nothing to be worried about this is just a general occurance.

ronslakie · May 2003

evilpancakewom - The blower speed increase and decrease happens at all times; when driving or stationary, with the A/C or vent or heat on. I tend to think this is abnormal as it just started happening about a month ago and I have had the car for over 2 years. I'm going to bring it in to the dealer next week because it is still under warranty but I'm sure I will get one of those "cannot duplicate condition" responses. That is why I was asking the forum if anyone else had this problem so taht I could hopefully point the dealer in the right direction.

Ron

harim18 · May 2003

I have a 2000 GM. At about 20,000 mi, I noticed the transmission would "slip" when shifting from 3rd to 4th ,under modest acceleration, at about 40 to 45 mph. I took the car in (still under warranty) and they did major work on it, but this did not fix the problem. When I took it back the second time they discovered that the trans. case had a hole in it that caused it to "suck air". They replaced the case. Hope this info may help someone.

kinley · May 2003

fluid on your garage floor? (assuming the hole was on the bottom of the case)

harim18 · May 2003

There was no fluid leak. As you know, those cases are aluminum and from talking to the Service Manager I got the impression they thought it was probably a manufacturing flaw. It may have been that way from day one. My wife drives it and the only time I do is when we go out of town. I was so happy I noticed it and that it was still in warranty, I didn't ask a lot of questions.

jerrym3 · May 2003

I hope it's not the dreaded "3-4 shudder" that was so common in the mid 90's trans.

My 94 TBird had it, my brother-in-law's 94 Bird had it, my father-in-law's 94 Crown Vic had it, and many of the Lincolns that picked me up to get to the airport (I used to travel a lot for work) had it.

I was lucky; I was able to get almost 100,000 out of the trans before it needed a rebuild; however, my in-laws weren't so lucky. Their's had to be rebuilt before 40,000.

How Ford got away with an obviously defective trans is amazing!!

kinley · May 2003

and that cured it. Our 94 Towncar had the tranny oil changed before it occurred. Perhaps it was sub standard fluid used in the 90's.

dmers · May 2003

I believe a Transmission oil change every 30,000 miles should cure a lot of shudder problems, though our 2000 GM started the shudder at 26K. We are now doing fine going on 57K and will change at 60K miles, back on schedule.

typee · May 2003

I took delivery of an '03 Crown Victoria last week, and since then have returned it to the dealer three times due to wind noise coming from the area of the right front passenger door/window area. The dealer initially realigned the door, as it was "drooping" upon being opened. Now that is reasonably well aligned (although still different from the driver's side), but the wind noise, while reduced, continues to be an issue. The noise starts at speeds of 45 - 50 mph, and is continual at freeway speeds. Dealer is now waiting for new rubber gasket for entire door frame to attempt to address the issue. Obviously, I am not pleased with the apparent lack of tolerances in construction, but will live with them just fine if the wind noise can be addressed. Does anyone else have knowledge or suggestions that may help me in dealing with this issue?

kinley · May 2003

is caused by the design of the mirrors on the doors.

typee · May 2003

Thanks for the input re the mirrors, but that's not the source of the noise. The noise was reduced significantly when the door was realigned, and there is no similar noise on the driver's side which, of course, has the same mirror design.

Now that the dealer has adjusted the door so it "almost" fits, the wind noise is still an issue.

Any other people out there with suggestion? I fear that the dealer's next statement will be something similar to, "That noise is within spec." I know that is not the case, having driven and ridden many thousands of miles in numerous CV's

Thanks for any assistance with this.

astonman · May 2003

The above is the title of Technical Service Bulletin 02-2-2 issued by Ford in Feb. 02. on their 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis. Yesterday we paid over $600 to have this problem fixed. My mechanic said he had repaired the same problem on several of these cars and in his professional opinion, Ford should pay for all these.

Although the title refers to the intake manifold, it is not a functional part of the intake manifold, but a cross-over coolant channel that was originally made as an integral part of the plastic manifold. The replacement part is now a kit. The intake manifold is still plastic, but they have cast a separate piece in aluminum for the coolant crossover.

I plan to file a claim with Ford for the cost of repairs. If anyone would like a copy of my claim, please e-mail me.

goldranger · May 2003

hughiem,

Any updates on the noise? I just got a 02 GM LS (built 10/00)with 22K. Has slight rear end whine starting about 55 and up. Haven't taken it in yet but will soon. Still have plenty of factory warranty so they will fix. What do you think of changing to the 75W140 synthetic gear lube? Manual says you never have to change it even if towing. BTW previous three vehicles were 2 LeSabres and 1 Park Ave. I like the Merc GM best.
Also noticed the 4.6 uses 5W20. Does anyone know who makes the Motorcraft semi-synthetic 5W20 oil?
Thanks

kinley · May 2003

rear axle fluid until 100,000. When it whined at 97,000 the dealer's mechanic found foam instead of oil. Check your axle sooner than later.

nordinsr · May 2003

I want to purchase a 2-3 year old Grand Marquis. However I keep reading that the CV and the GM are "clones" The CV is usually priced less than the GM given the same options. Why should I then purchase a GM? Is there something better about this car over the CV that justifies the higher price?

I can't find any comparison analyses on the Internet.

peeete · May 2003

does anyone have any insight into likely changes in the 2004 CV/GM?

johnclineii · June 2003

CV vs. GM:

a. CV is used in fleets, police and taxi service. As such, it depreciates MUCH faster than the GM. If you are going to buy used and keep a very long time, this works very much to your advantage. If you ever need to sell the car, this works to your disadvantage, unless you have already driven the wheels off of it!

b. GM's cost a WEE bit more to start. GM's are not confused with police cars, which can be a plus and a minus in some very limited circumstances.

c. If dealer servicing is an issue, be sure to compare the Ford and Mercury dealers in your area, if they be separate.

d. In some states, CV's are cheaper to insure. In others, GMs are. In still others, there is no difference. The delta, when it exists, is normally very small.

e. GM's are readily available used with more options than CV's typically are. There are a LOT more GM's sold at retail than CV's. GM's sell the best in Florida.

Hope that helps!

dbc123 · June 2003

Job one date for the 04 CV/GM is July 28. The changes are very few and involve more decontenting - door handles on the CV are black, secondary sun visor only on driver side, body colored outside mirrors are now all black, small changes to the overhead console, etc. This in addition to the major removal of features on 12/1/02 which included removal of the automatic parking brake release, fuel filler door release, front seat storage pouches, under hood light, blacked out "B" pillars, clock in the dash. Soon the cars will come with only 3 wheels!!! It is a travesty what Ford has done to these cars to save a few cents.......

dbc123 · June 2003

My previous post was to alert others and maybe let Ford know that we do not approve of these foolish cost cutting measures. My new 03 GM LS (pre 12/02 build date) is a very satisfying car - but I did keep my 94 GM LS with 143,000 miles and in several important respects, the 94 is the superior car...

peeete · June 2003

Gee, the Impala is starting to look pretty good (:

dbc123 · June 2003

V6, front wheel drive, unibody Impala is no match for a CV/GM. Impala's approach is OK for small, inexpensive, econoboxes but the unique feel of V8 rear drives is far more satisfying in large sedans..

peeete · June 2003

no argument from me about that. The CV/GM torque rush is fantastic. I have a G35 which is a faster car and RWD, but it still doesnt have the same "feel" as a V8.

The decontenting is a problem I think. THe CV/GM are comparatively "featureless" when compared to to other cars (the Impala for example). I seem to recall that there are 3 buttons on the overhead console that have no use..I think they were homelink buttons. If they were it kinda stinks to take out such a cheap useful option.

dmers · June 2003

Can anyone tell me what the Lexus and Mercedes auto companies do to make their cars more quiet inside and what Merc/Lincoln are not doing (at least that is what the car magazines tell us). My 2000 Merc GM has engine and wind noise as well as some rear wheel/tire noise that I feel is normal, but could be improved.

I know car companies use to advertise interior dB sound levels years ago and Ford was always quite good in this area.

PS. Ford may want a stripped down entry level CV/GM but they had better keep the top of the line versions as well or they will surely lose market share. The CV/GM may not be the best but, $ for $ these cars cannot be beat in value or ride.

Even the Japanese are coping Ford body styles as the standard in cars and trucks. Ex. Infinity M, Toyoto, Kia (Korean), etc.

dbc123 · June 2003

High end auto manufacturers spend much more on sound deadners and pay more attention to sealing and under body aerodynamics resulting in quieter cars. I've long contended that the 92-94 TC/GM/CV were the quietest american cars ever built. After the 98 redesign these cars were noticably noiser in regards to engine and road noise - a key factor in my refusing to give up my 94 until now. I'm happy to report that the extensive redesign for 03 has resulted in a much quieter car - about the equal to my 94 but with much improved structural rigidity and vastly improved steering. If you don't mind the stiffer ride of the new ones you will probably like the other changes.

p100 · June 2003

I saw a TV documentary that a number of CV police vehicles caught on fire when hit hard in the rear. This is due to gas tank rupture by deformed metal and subsequent fuel ignition. In some cases the car occupants were seriously burned, even killed. This looks like a serious safety issue to me. At first Ford denied that there is a safety hazard here (what is new: recall the Pinto exploding fuel tank), but when a number of states decided not to buy any more of their CV police cars, they apparently promised to retrofit vehicles with some kind of protective shield for the gas tank. Does somebody know more about this? Do new 03s have a gas tank protective shield installed? And I mean a shield for all CV/GM vehicles, not just police verisons.

kinley · June 2003

There is an aftermarket metal shield that fits in back of the rear seat that is to prevent the fuel from entering the cabin. Perhaps the manufacturer of the Mustang shield will come up with what you need. Refer to Canadian Mustang.

iusecad · June 2003

the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car are among the safest cars on the road.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/current/crownvic/index.htm

Did that TV program happen to say what happened to the drivers that ran into the back of those patrol cars? Were they given a cookie and sent home?

rea98d · June 2003

*Sigh* We've run this exploding fuel tank thing into the ground. Parking a police car on the side of the road during a traffic stop is hazardous in any car, especially when you consider the trooper is going to have his car over toward the lane of traffic more than the car he pulls over, to protect the motorist he's stopping. Add in cars barreling down the interstate at 70-80 miles an hour, and it doens't matter if your in a freaking Sherman Tank, there's gonna be some serious damage. As Wilbur Wright said, "If you want perfect safety, you will do well to sit on the fence and watch the birds." The NHTSA has investigated this thing to no end, and found no fault with the Crown Vic. Ford issued a recall mainly for PR reasons because a few liberal journalists found they had a little time on their hands between wars and promiscuous congressmen, and decided to fill in the dull time with a little slander on a major corporation, and damaged Ford's image. So Ford had to do something to repair that damage.

dbc123 · June 2003

Previous post is spot on. There is nothing wrong with the design of the CV/GM/TC gas tank. These are among the safest cars in the world and the statistics bear that out. The gas tank is nearly 3 feet in front of the back bumper. The car must be hit at an insane speed to damage the tank. This is what happens more frequently in police than civilian use. Enjoy the car and quit worrying about this issue.

p100 · June 2003

You sound like a lawyer for the Ford Motor Company. If there is nothing wrong with the design, then why did Chevy Caprice police cars (used until 1996) not catch on fire when hit hard from behind(at least to my knowledge)? Statistically speaking there were just as many hit from behind and with the same force. Chevy Caprice is every bit as large and safe a car as Crown Victoria.

iusecad · June 2003

Expressing the risk of fire as a ratio of fires in fatal vehicles per total fatal vehicles yields a ratio (including police vehicles) of 0.033 for both the Ford Panther and AOS (all other sedans). Excluding police vehicles yields a ratio of 0.029 for the Ford Panther versus 0.033 for AOS. These results indicate that the subject vehicles are not over-represented with respect to the risk of fire in high-energy crashes.

ODI Findings:

The crash energy levels associated with post rear impact fuel tank failures in the CVPI vehicles are significantly greater than the levels in FMVSS 301 tests.

Fuel tank failures during high-speed rear impacts can result from numerous causes in addition to the hex-headed bolt and U-brackets identified in the Ford TSB. Crash reports identify many causes for loss of fuel system integrity during a high-energy rear crash, such as puncture from a deformed frame rail, lower shock absorber supports, or stowed items in the trunk, hydrostatic rupture, and other causes.

Based on analysis of FARS data, the risk of fire per fatal rear crash in the subject vehicles is comparable to that of the GM B-body vehicle (Caprice).

The vast majority of reported post rear crash fires in the subject vehicles (over 80%) occurred in CVPI vehicles, even though they constitute less than 15% of the total Panther vehicle production.

The Florida Highway Patrol Study did not identify a difference between the post rear impact fire risk in CVPI vehicles and that of the Caprice police vehicles.

Ford-sponsored testing indicates that the subject vehicles are not unique in their inability to maintain fuel tank integrity in at least one example of a severe rear impact crash.

There have been numerous high-energy rear crashes involving CVPI vehicles within the scope of Fords TSB that exhibited little or no fuel loss and no fire.

The available information regarding fuel tank failure mode, the risk of fire per fatal crash, field performance, and crash testing indicate that the performance of the subject vehicle in high-energy rear crashes is not unlike that of the most comparable peer vehicle, the GM B-body.

Reason for Closing:
Under the present circumstance, it is unlikely that further investigation would produce sufficient evidence to demonstrate the existence of a safety-related defect in the subject vehicles. Therefore, this investigation is closed based on the evidence available at this time. The agency reserves the right to take further action if warranted by new or changed circumstances.

dbc123 · June 2003

Any other owners of 2003 CV/GM care to share their observations on their cars? These cars have just undergone the most radical updating since 92 and I'd like to hear what others are thinking about the changes. I've a new 03 and a 94 GM which I alternate driving. They are very different driving cars although the appearance is not changed that much.

kinley · June 2003

If so, how would you describe the performance, acceleration, difference between the two. Choosing between the CV & GM - what were the values and reasons to choose the GM over the CV?

dbc123 · June 2003

For 03 all 4.6 single exhaust are 224 HP while dual exhaust are rated at 239 HP. Since duals are (were) only available on the discontinued LSE model you now have no choice of HP ratings.
The Handling and Performance Package (HPP) is still available on the CV and this gives dual exhausts along with stiffer springs and sway bars.
You may recall 92-01 4.6 engines were rated at 190-200 HP or 210-215 with duals.

For 02 Ford changed the cylinder heads to Performance Improved (PI) heads from the Mustang engine and gained about 10% in HP. These PI head engines do not run as smoothly or quietly as the earlier engines but do make noticably more power - it's a tradeoff. I've not completely decided if the loss of the silky feel of the earlier engines was worth the added power which is noticable only when the engine is really wound up to higher RPM.

Which would you choose?

kinley · June 2003

dbc123 · June 2003

These relatively minor quibbles aside, I'm continually amazed at the value these cars represent. I paid less than $2K more for my new 03 GM than for the new one in 94 - compariably equipped. They represent an incredible value, expecially with the huge cashback offers now existing.
Only about 10% price increase in 9 years and numerous upgrades during that time to keep the cars current.

vidtech · June 2003

my 97 grand marquis with 4.6 just had the intake manifold crack.i understand this is a common problem.has ford extended the warranties on these failures?also,will the aluminum intakes from the 1994 and 1995 engines work on the newer 4.6's which use the plastic version?

kinley · June 2003

but of late, I'm not sure. There were a couple of TSB's issued so check with your L/M dealer.

dbc123 · June 2003

Ford's official position is to only warrent the manifolds on police interceptor (PI) cars. Occasionally, when really pressed, they will offer partial reimbursment for replacment.
The newest replacments are two piece with the troublesome water crossover made of aluminum and the remainder of the manifold in resin (plastic). These seemed to cure the problem. They were also installed on all 02 forward 4.6's. Earlier all aluminum manifolds will bolt to the engine but there are several minor differences that make this a difficult option. Best is the new 2 piece manifold - it retails for about $250 plus at least 2-3 hours labor for installation.

ragdollgirl · June 2003

I have a 94 GM that I bought new and it now has over 176,000 miles on it. It had lots of problems early on that got resolved, and for the most part it has been a great car. However, the gas tank sensor wires went on the fritz a long time ago and doesn't read the right way after a fill-up until the gas has gone down some. I just live with it. Also, years ago the headlight auto-off sensor died and I never replaced it. My immediate concern is that the air bag system developed a short in it a few weeks ago and I have not yet fixed it because nobody can tell me how much it will cost as they don't know how long it will take to find the short. I'm not real happy driving with no air bags, and the blinking light on the dash is driving me to distraction. I have been toying with the notion of buying a new VW Passat, but hesitate to let my GM go. It's so great in so many ways, it's a shame to practically give it away. Any opinions on whether the air bags are worth the attempt to fix them?

kinley · June 2003

Just talk to anybody over 60 who was not raised with them, didn't wear a helmet while biking and played stickball in the street. As a member of "Rifle Club" it was not shocking to see a member carrying his "22" down the hall to the range under the auditorium. As other suppliers provide parts for the assembly of our cars, they are expected to foul up. The sensor for the WS washer malfuntioned 5 years and 50,000 miles ago and just recently the automatic pull down feature on the trunk stopped. Over riding the switch caused the pull down catch to be positioned in the right spot enabling the deck lid to be shut manually. Neither is safety related though. IMO had all the $$$ spent on improving driver crash survivability been spent on driver improvement courses, we might be further ahead and not have to buy such expensive cars. "Make safer drivers, not safer crashes."

dbc123 · June 2003

I also have a 94 GM with 144K miles. I elected to keep it when I bought a new 03 GM. My 94 has given excellent service requiring less than $300 in repairs (parts only) other than routine replacment items since new. It still runs, drives and looks great. I can empathize with the above poster who is reluctant to let their 94 go. The value of a 9 year old GM with over 100K miles is next to nothing.
I would at least spend a few bucks to have the air bag electrical problem diagnosed - it may not be that expensive to fix if it is a simple short. If it is the deployment module that will be another matter
Be aware that the VW Passat's reliablity record is only average and that repairs and parts are much more expensive than for a Ford product.

p100 · June 2003

Is the handling package (dueal exahust, alloy wheels, wider tires, and pneumatic rear shocks)still available on base 03 GM and Crown Victoria? It was on the 02 model I think. this one option is well worth $ 600.

dbc123 · June 2003

The Handling and Performance Package (HPP) is avilable on the GM LS and CV LX only. It does not include wider tires. The rear suspension is air springs not "pneumatic shocks". It also includes a lower rear axle ratio that improves acceleration slightly while reducing fuel economy.
Larger sway bars and stiffer springs result in a very firm ride. Consumer Reports found the ride to be "stiff and jiggly" with this package. Try before you buy. The package is not for everyone but a good value if the sacrifices are worth the slight improvments in handling and performance.

p100 · June 2003

Thanks for the info. I actually had a chance to buy a brand new CV with a police package for about $ 22K. A Ford dealer in Dothan Alabama had a new 2002 for sale to the public some months ago - supposedly the local police department ordered one too many. It would be fun having this car, as it came with the remote spotlight, police package wheels and tires, but no roofbar or inside lights. The rear seats on the police package cars are vinyl though, and I believe they use rubber mats instead of carpet. One reason why I decided against the purchase was the resale value - it would be hard to convince a potential buyer that I am the original private owner of the car. Also, dealer trade-in value would be terrible, as in general used police cars are sold pretty cheap due to abuse they take. I wonder if the police car engines have any other modifications to increase the horsepower, such as different engine computer chip. A Ford dealer told me that police cars have special radiator hoses that cost about $ 150 a piece to replace.

iusecad · June 2003

and carpeting is optional on the Interceptor, but I don't think very many are ordered with them. (My car has a cloth seat, but rubber floor.) The silicone hoses are optional also.

And I don't think it would be that hard to convince a future buyer that you're the original owner: the title would list the miles the car had when you bought it.

vidtech · June 2003

the intake manifold of my 97 grand marquis (4.6)cracked last week.why would ford recall the intakes on crown victorias and thunderbirds but have no recall on the grand marquis?i thought the crown vics and grand marquis were basically the same.

Kirstie_H · June 2003

A reporter is aiming to interview someone who recently bought a new Ford for less than $38,000 after either owning used cars or waiting a while to replace a paid-off car.
Please send your response including Ford model and daytime contact info by Monday, June 30 to jfallon@edmunds.com

Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

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