Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

regfootball · October 2003

everything that has been said about that new CTS mill is very positive. Would be a nice mill for the GTP.

johnclineii · October 2003

It sure would. But with GM's market segmentation strategy, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Lutz & Co. to allow Pontiac to use it. Not in this lifetime.

Sigh.

midlifecrisis · October 2003

I never actually test drove the CTS, but sat in a few of them. I really liked it a lot. But the bottom line was that it was out of my price range, especially given that there was a $3000 rebate on the 04 GP and none on the CTS. Plus, the price difference between a CTS and a GT2 was about $5000 to begin with. The CTS comes standard with a manual tranny, so you have to add about $800 to get the auto.

If you're looking at a GTP, the price difference is less.

wpbharry · October 2003

It's still in the running, but to answer a previous question that I didn't have time to respond to, here's why the '04 Malibu is my #1 choice (I agree the GP is better looking, but the '04 Malibu looks MUCH better in the flesh - it's not photogenic).

Same hp, but much better "punch". Lighter than the GP with max torque at lower revs. (Actually had an '01 GP 3800 rental (in '01) that I thought was a dog compared to the 3100 V-6 in my '98 Malibu). I know the '04 is a Series III, but I really doubt it's that much different than the Series II. Friend had an '03 GP 3800 rental that said the same thing.

New Malibu LT has a LOT of features not available on the GT2 (yes, the GT2 has a few not avail on the Mal, but only a few).

Already a $1000 rebate; will surely be $3000 by next summer. Bottom line is lower, so you get the drift...

evandro · October 2003

Cadillac and Buick have exclusivity on the 3.6 V6 until year-model 2006, IIRC. After that, it's fair game for other divisions.

The question then becomes which features Pontiac will drop and what displacement will be used (that family is supposed to range between 2.8 and 4.0l, with or without cam phasing, with or without turbo-charging) to bring its cost down to Pontiac levels...

regfootball · October 2003

i would take a GP GT1 over a bu, in a heartbeat, but neither car 'tops' the list.

regfootball · October 2003

New GP's 2004 starting at 18995........

midlifecrisis · October 2003

I got a total of $3000 in rebates on the 04 GT2. So don't let that be a deciding factor between the GP and the Malibu. What options are available on the Malibu but NOT on the GP?

wpbharry · October 2003

Had to find the '04 Malibu brochure first.

They are:
Heated outside mirrors
Telescoping steering column (actually its standard)
Power adjustable pedals
Remote vehicle starter system
Auto air conditioning (this one I'm not sure about being avail on the GP)
HomeLink Transmitter
Electrocromic Rearview Mirror
Leather & Suede Seating
Six-disc CD Changer.

I'll also mention the heated front seats, but honestly can't recall if they are avail on the GP.

REMEMBER, I'm talking GT2 folks, NOT GTP.

dindak · October 2003

C$23995 cash price advertised today for a GT1. About the same for a base 4 cyl Accord with a 5 speed manual.

wpbharry · October 2003

$18995 (US) for the GT1 over the weekend.

regfootball · October 2003

no the BASE DX accord is quite a bit cheaper.

you are talking LX.

That same Accord will retain much more value over time....keep that in mind.

midlifecrisis · October 2003

This is available on the GP as an option. The lack of a electrochromatic rear view mirror is a sore spot with 04 GP owners. I would have liked to have the heated side view mirrors as well. The rest of the stuff is no big deal for me.

How much would a Malibu cost with all these options?

wpbharry · October 2003

for a loaded Malibu LT is about $25,500. $1000 rebate as of now, more to come, I'm sure.

dindak · October 2003

Base DX in Canada is C$23800. Advertised cash price is $23995 for a GT1. You could probably get more $$ off the GP in negotiations, not much of the Accord.

Your resale point is valid however. I haven't driven a 04 GP yet, but based on looks and the automatic / V6, I would almost certainly go GP. No brainer as typically keep cars for 7-8 years anyway.

wpbharry · October 2003

Last week, I requested the full '04 GP brochure via gmbuypower.com. Just as Chevy did with preproduction Malibu brochures #1 (Feb.) and #2 (June), Fed-X, yes Fed-X, arrived today with it. I'll read it sometime this week.

I don't know if GM is doing this for everyone or just current GM owners, but it really makes a statement.

regfootball · October 2003

i thought in the US a base DX (no air) was like 16 grand.

dindak · October 2003

Don't know what they sell in the U.S., but that's the cheapest 4 cyl. Accord one can buy up here (A/C is standard). Add automatic to put the car on par and it's a C$1000 more than the 04 GP cash price advertised locally.

wpbharry · October 2003

dindak, my hunch is that you only get a version of our Accord LX as your base car. Down here, we can get the DX, as reg noted (price 16-17 US). Not sure who'd want one, however.

dindak · October 2003

Ya, people aren't big on strippers up here. I've noticed other people speak of other cars that have nothing in them. 04 GP and Malibu base models are no strippers though.

wpbharry · October 2003

I'm very glad that I asked GM to send me one (it's the orig one from last March; Uglycloth and all, had to chuckle).

The car is obviously very thoughtfully designed and appears to be good value for the $, as is the new Malibu.

I'll definitely give it more than a passing glance at next month's Miami Int'l Auto Show. There I'll also be able to compare the new Malibu (which I've driven already) with the GP, and a few others that are farther down the list.

regfootball · October 2003

some folks see an accord dx with dealer installed air as good basic transportation, without power windows etc. these are basic car folks who just want 'A ' car. Something larger than what the same money would get a loaded compact for. Thing is, even that DX holds its value huge and after they sell it in five years they can still get 9 or 10 grand for the car. People buy it cause they know its dirt cheap and will hold up.

dindak, you said strippers aren't big in Canada. My friend who grew up in the Peg would most likely rebut that statement....LOL.

Oh, you meant stripper cars. Sorry.

wpbharry · October 2003

Last month (last time I checked), while my poor '98 Malibu LS had a trade-in of $5,000 - 5,500 (due to the fact that it's loaded with lo mileage), I found several '98 Accord LXs going for around $7,000 - 7,500 (retail). So much for the "$9 or 10 grand", reg.

dindak · October 2003

wpbharry : Used retail cars have big mark ups. Trade in is as low as you can go, sell private.

reg : Yes I meant cars. ;-)

gunit · October 2003

After being at the track, the new 2004 GTP with 20 more horse over the previous generation isn't any faster. The 2004 is 200 pounds heavier then a 2002 coupe! Remember torque rating is the same on both cars. The prevous generation ran a 14.7 stock while the best for the 2004 that day were 14.8 in the 1/4 mile.

So much for 20 extra horse... it's take up by the 150-200 extra lbs weight!

Although I think the 04 has more potential, although stock it is more constrained. This is due mostly to the torque management routines in the new PCM.

johnclineii · October 2003

All of which are designed to save the auto tranny.

The GTP needs a better transmission. This is the limiting factor for more torque.

regfootball · October 2003

be thankful its not a Ford automatic transmission.

dindak · October 2003

Indeed.

midlifecrisis · October 2003

Amen to that!

regfootball · October 2003

one thing we can agree on.

wpbharry · October 2003

The GT1 that was in my paper last weekend for $18995 is now magically $21898 this weekend. Ad doesn't list equipment.

johnclineii · October 2003

Same stock number?

Did dealer or customer incentives perhaps change?

wpbharry · October 2003

that we forgot to notice the little blurb at the bottom last week that called for $2903 down. This week it specifically states "$0 down".

Caught Motorweek (on PBS) this morning. They're doing a long term test of the GTP/Comp G. At the 5,000 mile mark, they haven't had a single problem, and proclaim it to be solid as a rock and easily "the best GP ever built". Nice endorsement.

johnclineii · October 2003

A lot of dealers here will run prices/payments that assume a large trade-in most people don't have, nicely asterisked for the rube--er, customer, to see after s/he is in the salesroom with checkbook/payment book in hand.

wpbharry · October 2003

All it states is "Pontiac Grand Prix GT". No equipment, no stock #.

I admit, this week's price is in line with what I'd expect to pay for a GT2, whereas last week's was in line with a GT1.

No change in incentives that I'm aware of. Who knows? The price difference was a bit of a shock, though.

evandro · October 2003

I just got mine yesterday via Fedex. The funny thing is that I didn't request it. In the accompanying letter they said that as I had had requested literature about it in the past, they figured I might be interested in the new GP. Nice approach.

And now I understand why the cloth seats were so badly criticized... That kind of pattern may please European tastes, but I pass.

Mr. Lutz, get a grip, what works on the other side of the pond, doesn't necessarily work on this side, and vice versa.

wpbharry · October 2003

As I've mentioned before, you ain't seen nothin until you see the cloth in the new Malibu LS. Up and over the headrests, even. Yuk.

If any of you are interested, GM released a press release this week indicating that the huge ad blitz for the new Malibu starts during Game 1 of the WS tonight with a 60-second spot. Called "whole country".

New web site up today:
http://www.chevymalibu.com
and 6-page magazine foldout ads on the way too. BIG bucks.

dindak · October 2003

The GP launch has gone better than the Accord launch. Who would have thunk huh?

ab348 · October 2003

Funny thing about that Malibu launch... I saw a total of one ad last night on the WS game on Fox for it. I saw umpteen ads for Nissan. The Malibu ad probably got lost in the Nissan shuffle for most people. That is a nice website though, at least if you have broadband.

Made the rounds of a few GM dealers today. The Pontiac store has a bunch of '04 GPs in stock, some with Uglycloth (TM Regd), some without. The new non-Uglycloth seats just use the woven bolster material in place of the Uglycloth inserts and look quite nice. Hope GM fired the genius who specified the Uglycloth in the first place. I dunno if they will have much luck selling the Uglycloth-equipped ones when the good seats are literally on the car next to it. Maybe we will have an Uglycloth incentive plan...

At a Chevy store I checked out the new Malibu, an LS (the only one they had). It looks mucho better in person than in pictures. The cloth is a bit much, not quite as bad as Uglycloth, but not very nice. You could probably live with it if it was just used on the seats but they need to get it off the headrests (front and rear BTW) ASAP. Also, someone needs to tell GM that a silver car should not have a tan interior, as the one I saw did. But aside from that I quite liked the interior of the new 'Bu. Even has a little chrome and wood inside.

wpbharry · October 2003

First, feel free to read my posts in the Malibu discussion re: last night's TV ad (yes, there only was one). I wasn't impressed (and the Web site has big problems for us dial-up users too).

ab: I can't believe that they're offering neutral with silver!! Blows my mind. BTW, wood accents come with neutral, brushed aluminum with the gray interior. Copycatting the Accord.

dindak · October 2003

Older people seem to love neutral. It will sell to some though I generally don't like it with any color.

johnclineii · October 2003

I am an older people (giggle).

And I most decidedly do NOT like neutral, nor am I overly fond of that shade of gray used so often by most automakers.

In the past ten years, whilst most of us were not looking, blue, green and red interiors have all mostly disappeared.

wpbharry · October 2003

Chevy has never offered neutral with silver before, only the gray that John dislikes and I like. My current Malibu has neutral (white exterior) and it soils too easily.

What I REALLY like is the dark pewter available in the GP (but not the Malibu).

evandro · October 2003

Pretty well done. The car is really well thought out. I hope it sells millions to private customers. Yet, I don't think I'd be one of them...

On a side note, the modern building where some external scenes were shot remind of the Opel headquarters where the Vectra is made in the Frankfurt metro area, which I got to visit when I was there last year.

gunit · October 2003

The average age of a NEW Grand Prix buyer is 38 yrs old ! The average age of a NEW Honda Accord buyer is 44 yrs old. The average age of a NEW Infiniti I35 buyer is 51 yrs old. I read this in a trade magazine recently. I forget where the stats came from.

gunit · October 2003

One more distressing thing I have seen is that the Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna minivans are FASTER 0-60mph then the 2004 Grand Prix GT1/GT2.. go figure? Bested by a minivan? Ugh!

The Honda ran 8 seconds and the Toyota ran 8.2 seconds. Meanwhile the GT1/GT2 runs 8.5 seconds, LOL

Although I'm sure the GT1/GT2 out brake and out handle the minivans, it is still embarrassing for Pontiac though! Remember the vans are 800 pounds heavier!!

And I believe Edmunds has the Odyssey at an IMPRESSIVE 7.8 seconds, very good!

midlifecrisis · October 2003

I used to have a Ford Windstar with the 3.8 L 200 HP engine. It was quite powerful and quick. But it was a minivan....

I need to take my GT2 to the track. I don't believe the 8.5 second time. My Grand Am GT was supposed to do a sub 8 second time, and I think the Grand Prix is just as quick. I rarely push the GP to the limit - but when I do the car responds very strongly. I just don't see how it would take 8.5 seconds to go from 0-60 in the GP.

dan165 · October 2003

Gunit, I really don't car much though I think the car is faster than 8.5. Those mini vans have big motors and burn more gas (not to mention they are both ugly). 8-8.5 seconds is just fine, if you want really fast get a GTP.

Wpbharry, saw a new Malibu parked on the street a few days ago. Very dull looking car a la Camry but seems nice inside. Probably a huge improvement over the current car.

Regfootball, We had a Ford Explorer for a number of years and the transmission never gave us any trouble. My sister has a 95 Windstar and it's been fine also. Don't think Ford trannys are that bad.

dindak · October 2003

The Ody has a 3.5L 250hp motor so yes it's fast, it's got 50 extra ponies under the hood. That said, I'm not so sure that the GT is as slow as 8.5 for 0-60. 3.8L powered cars have generally done 0-60 in the 8 second range in the past.

evandro · October 2003

These cars are definitely competitors, but the Maxima is out of my list because its front end styling could only please me if I were bulimic.

Now, if the Japanese version were sold here, I'd probably switch to "the other side": photo #1, photo #2, photo #3 .

Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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