Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

L8_Apex

Welcome to the continuation of the <--Wider is
Better--> The Pontiac Grand Prix topic. Those of
you joining us from that topic are welcome to
continue your discussion. If you're new to this
topic, you may want to follow the above link for
additional archived posts.

Thanks,

L8_Apex
Sedans Host

graphicguy

Oh how exciting!

ruski

Go figure out how to spell "separate" then talk about separate dual exhausts.

Whatever GP GT or GTP has it sure still beats the fake tip that rice-boys attach to the other side of their sticker laden rice mobiles (I hope you are not one of those)

Graphicguy is pretty correct about the gear indicators being on the dash - when shifting the gears (I do that often) in traffic, I don't have to look down and take my eyes off the road.

I don't know what seats are in your Grand Prix (in case you really have one), but my seats are pretty comfortable, with 4-way power lumbar support.

To be honest with you, I seriously doubt that you own a Grand Prix. I think you just read some crappy reviews and decided to get in here and knock the Grand Prix.

Maybe you took it out once for a test drive.

mrivers

"I guess I always thought dual(meaning two) exhaust meant an exhaust header on each side of the engine and two seperate exhausts, one for each side to relieve back pressure"

You'll be pressed hard to find true dual exhuast on a transversally(sp?) mounted motor. Putting "dual exhaust" on the GP would be a waste of resources, the motor is artificially restricted to 240hp anyhow.

"...I am sure just adding that second muffler will do the job"

Adding a second muffler doesn't always "do the job", not in the GP's case, it's just for looks in this case. The Regal GS has the same output with a single muffler.

"You forgot to mention your great seats,I am sure they are quite comfortable."

I can't disagree with you on this point, but I don't agree with you either. The seats are uncomfortable to you, I can't dispute that. They suit me fine however.

"You still havent explained why they couldnt put an indicator tab on the prnd321 on the console rather than the dash but if you"

The dash is closer to your line of sight and it would be redundent to also have it on the console. It only has PRND321 next to it so you won't confuse it with the parking brake. Most people can "feel" which gear it's in anyhow, similar to how manual gearshifters have no marker and can you only "feel" which gear your in.


When you get rid of your piece of crap Pontiac, for not having a console mounted gear marker, and having fake dual exhaust, let the rest of us know so we can trow a party.

delphi2

I see you dont own a GP, just leasing a 98 right? Smart move. It is nice to see a proud Chrysler owner defend the GPs

ruski

yep I am leasing a 98 GP GTP and a 99 300M. Both are great cars and I have not had any problems with them. I have been thoroughly enjoying them instead of whining, and nitpicking, not to mention trolling in the Townhall forums.

Are you leasing your GP or do you own it?

If you hate it so much, maybe you will just give it to me? It won't make any sense for you selling it, with those GP depreciation rates.

96gs

Although the exhaust on the GP may not be "true" dual exhaust, it sure sounds good. My car has the twin tip single exhaust and it sounds like a vacuum cleaner when revving up. Guess it's not made to sound sporty.

I can't believe some of the things people find to complain about cars. Just look at all the things you get in a 25K GP. Tremendous power, good handling, safety, good looks, LOTS of standard luxuries, etc. Of course interior materials won't be up to the standards of a Lexus. That's why a Lexus costs twice as much. I really don't think it's worth it. You get what you pay for, and in my opinion, you get a lot more than what you pay for when you buy a GP.

kazz

You'd think we were talking bout Mustangs, what with all the venom being thrown aroud in here on both sides of the fence. So, who am I not to pitch in? :-P

First, Ruski makes a sad point. The depreciation on GPs is horrible. I've been watching the GP Owners site lately, and some of the numbers they get for trade-ins--$14k for a 98 GTP, it seems, are just awful. This is NOT a car for you if you are looking for lots of retained value and maybe a trade-in in a couple years. Buy it if you are planning to keep it, methinks.

Second, I'll leave the whole dual-exhaust arguement to you guys, as I am not quite enough of a gearhead to, well, care. They look nice, they sound nice, and GM purposefully controlled the power of the engine for their own reasons, probably reliability and engineering issues. Good enough for me, though I might try to squeeze another 20hp out of it in a few years anyway...

Third, I think the correct term for all the sticker-plastered, loudly puttering Japanese cars is "Rice Rocket," not "Rice Mobile." Also, lest you think we were not global citizens here at the Town Hall, it can apply to any car, not just a Japanese one. I had a vaguely guilty feel myself taking delivery of my 2000 Daytona Pace replica, with it's cool-looking-but-mostly-useless doodad accessory package. Still, Since the manufacturer did it for me, I think I'm safe from a rice attack!

Last, Ruski: If you have a 300M and a GP, can you answer me a question? Is comparing the two cars a fair comparison? Do the missions and prices line up to the point where they could realistically be a head-to-head comparison, or is it apples and oranges? I ask because, as mentioned earlier, it seems to me that the GP usually gets associated with more expensive cars. I just wanted your take.

Thanks,

Kazz

ruski

the GP resale value comment was supposed to be tongue in cheek for delphi2 since he was harping so much about it.

300M vs GP GTP:
GTP is much quicker off the line and lighter overall.
300M corners better and feels more solid.
300M accelerates very strongly at higher speeds
Although I cannot complain about GTP's acceleration at any speed.
300M looks about the same size from outside but has more interior space
300M has bigger trunk
300M has the AutoStick
GTP has a driver's heated seat
300M has a driver AND a front passenger heated seat
GTP has a 6-way power driver's seat with 4-way power lumbar. Front passenger's seat is mechanical.
300M's both front seats are 8-way power adjustable.300M's lumbar support is mechanically adjustable.
300M has 2-position memory for driver's seat, mirrors, and stereo presets. GTP does not have memory like that.
300M's leather feels softer.
300M has fake wood. GTP does not have any wood.
GTP's stock stereo is not bad
300M has an optional 320 watt stereo with 11 speakers. Very nice.
GTP has dual zone auto climate control.
300M has a regular auto climate control.
GTP has very comprehensive stereo controls on the steering wheel.
300M does not have redundant stereo conrols on the steering wheel.
GTP has Head Up Display, 300M does not.

Overall 300M is more luxurious, but GTP is not far behind. 300M is a larger car and that makes it a better family hauler.
Hypothetically Pontiac could add a few features (seat/mirror memory, heater front passenger's seat, 8-way power front seats while retaining the 4-way power lumbar support and update the suspension - and make a car that's better than 300M. I don't know why they are not doing that.

etharmon

To answer that last part, Pontiac is doing those things only they are doing them on the Bonneville. The Bonneville, especially the SSEi, is the model which competes best with the 300M. The GP is a bit smaller and priced lower than the 300M.

ruski

I still think that Pontiac could add a few nice things to the GTP and keep the price below 300M. Although they might undercut the sales of their own Bonneville... well, they could throw in a few more things into the Bonnie then.

kazz

For the price creep, I was kind of underwhelmed by the Bonneville, especially against competitors like the 300M, which feels and looks more swank. I did test drive the 300M and liked it, but it was $6k more than the GTP's MSRP with the performance package and sunroof. Also, I'm a single guy that doesn't need to haul a family around, so the cab-forward extra space didn't really concern me (though the 300M crash test results did--not too good...). In the end, the option for a 2-door accellerator, along with the lower payments, wooed me over to the GTP.

Kazz

ruski

the only reason they rated it lower in an offset crash test, was because the dummy hit its head on the steering wheel. At the same time, the dummy in Lexus GS400 also hit its head on the steering wheel but they rated that car high.
Also It is not clear if they belted the dummy properly, plus they were using some strange hard/soft barrier that the car's computer got confused by.

mattchalmers

Where can I find that crash data on line? I have wondered when I read references and am finally speaking up.

ruski

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ratings.htm

Lexus GS400 is in the large luxury cars section, 300M (actually they tested the LHS) is in large family cars.

kazz

(Laughing)Ruski, I don't think the 300M needs any defending. It's a luxurious car with good sporty kick and performance. I like the looks from the front, and most of the interior looks great too (though I don't like the loose-feeling power window/lock controls). All in all, a great car. I just think that it's mission is a bit different than the mission for the GTP. The GTP seems to me to be a sporty mid-size with touches of luxury. That GM puts lots of goodies on board is a big plus, but the price is till mid-20's. The 300M, though, seems to me to be a "near luxury," or "Entry luxury" sedan. Like I said, tons of things to receommend it, but for pricing, looks and interior size, it just seems to me to be in a different segment. It felt "older" to me than the GTP, if you know what I mean.

Still, if I were to win one, I wouldn't sell it ;-)

Kazz

kazz

Well, my new car just had it's first issue. A whining noise back by the rear wheels has turned out to be the fuel pump. The dealership isn't sure if it warrants replacement yet; I need to bring the car in later this week for them to drop the tank and have a look, but the noise is very annoying. Checking the ClubGP board showed that whiny fuel pumps have a tendency to give out at bad times, so I'm hoping the dealer can get this straightened out.

Update to follow...

Kazz

kazz

The dealer did not replace the fuel pump, saying the whine was normal, and that they couldn't hear it. Sure enough, when I got in the car, the noise was gone. It was back this morning. It appears to be a "warming up" noise, for some reason.

I'm hoping it doesn't leave me stranded.

dindak

Don't worry too much, my old 626 used to do that on cool mornings and later in the day it was fine. Perhaps you should leave it at the dealer overnight and take it out with them in the morning.

sedanman

Folks, I could use some quick input here. Please toss your thoughts my way. Choosing between: 98GT, which has everything except GTP package, 23K, excellent condition, slide back sunroof (by the way any leakage problems?), $17995 vs. 98 Regal LS, 28K, same engine as GT, dealer will include a new factory installed sunroof (lifetime warr), for $17495. I know the owner of the Regal, dealer salesman w/ original maint. slips & carfax told me the GP started as a corporate fleet vehicle, then it looks like a personal purchase, then sold at auto auction w/ the 23K on it. Has anyone weighed these two models during your shopping? Should the history of the GP concern me if the car looks to be in fine shape? Any comparison thoughts on these two will assist me. Thanks

mattchalmers

Both seem to be overpriced based on the current market value of each. The GP is priced at the top end of the market value, which I think very few people are receiving for the car. The Regal seems even more overpriced. Both are solid cars. I owned a 98 GP GT and enjoyed it quite a bit. I shopped the Regal, but liked the GP styling more. I think that the only advice I would give is; don't install an after-market sun roof, even with the warranty they are almost always a headache, get the prices down on either vehicle, ask for a warranty report from the dealer on both, and get the extended warranty (certified used).

sedanman

You know, you never get "younger" you only get "older". In light of that pearl of wisdom, I've dropped the 98 Regal from consideration. It makes me feel old when I'm in it. It's now down to negotiating a better price from the dealer for the GT. Thanks for the thoughts mattchalmers.

ruski

I just drove my 98 GTP from Yonkers, NY to Fort Lauderdale, FL. It only had 12.5K miles after 2.5 years, the lease is over soon, so I figured I should drive it and have some fun instead of having it transported (I moved to FL).

I drove with my wife, the car was loaded with a few bags and boxes of our stuff.

I did not get tired at all and felt like I could drive much longer. I attribute it to the car's comfort.

The seats felt very comfortable and did not cause any back pain at all on such a long trip.

Auto climate worked great.

Car was very stable at 80+ mph and still accelerated strongly from those speeds if needed.

I observed some buffetting in cross winds or in large trucks' wakes, but not bad at all.

I did not hear any squeaks or rattles.

HUD and steering wheel mounted radio controls are great on a long trip like this.

sedanman

As an outsider looking in I thought it was kindof funny how excited you GP owners are about your car(s). I mean, it's only a car, a means of basic transportation.

But boy has my viewpoint changed! I picked up that 98 GT Sedan this past Friday and I couldn't believe how GREAT it feels to drive. Every nice remark I've read from the 550+ postings is true. The look, the feel of the car, the acceleration (WOW), the comfort. I am crazy about this vehicle, and I never thought I'd be so excited about a car. If anyone is reading this forum to gain insight on a GP purchase (the way I was 2 weeks ago) rest assured the car is as wonderful as the postings make it sound.

Good luck to all you GP shoppers out there, I got mine!

ruski

Forgot to mention that during my drive to Florida, the fuel consumption went as high as 27.1mpg, indicated by the Driver Information Center.

Toward the end of the trip, it went down to 26.5mpg.

carrjar

Does any one know if the GP will be updated (not a complete redesign) for 2001? I imagine a complete redesign is still a few years off.

grimreaper_4u

I need a little advice...

I currently own a 96 Grand Am GT sedan. It has just over 43k miles. It has never left me stranded but, I have had some issues with build quality and over all design. For example - carpet wore out before 30k miles (replaced under warranty) alternater went out (replaced under warranty) and a celenoid in the tranny went out (replaced under warrenty). The delaership (Anderson Pontiac) has been hit and miss sometimes they have been great....other times I have promised myself never to go back.
But, I must say it was the most bang for the buck at the time and I do enjoy the vehicle for the most part.
I just finished going to the SLP Engineering website and found the GTX. It is a performance package added to the Grand Prix. It has the same Ram air kit and hood ad the Firehawk Trans am (+10hp), a new cat back exhaust system (+10hp) modified suspension, new wheels and some minor body work. I am smitten. I will look for a test drive but,I am very worried about the same issues I had with the Grand Am. Although all the problems it has had so far have been under warranty, I worry everytime I hear a strange noise and the poor build quality is starting to catchup (rattles and creaks). Have owners of newer Pontiacs noticed any improvments in build quality/design? Or should I save for an A6 2.7t or a BMW 328?

ech227

I had the exact feelings before trading my '94 Grand Am in for a '98 Grand Prix. My '94 had miles as well. Anyhow, I never had any mechanical problems with my Grand Am - just squeaks and rattles that started to try me crazy. Ever since GM started advertised how much more solid and structurally rigid their cars were I purchased the '98 Grand Prix in hopes of losing the squeaks and rattles. Unfortunately for the car I have, they still exist - only on rougher roads, but it is still very annoying. Since you mentioned Anderson Pontiac I'm assuming you're in Crown Point (of course there could be more than one Anderson Pontiac). Let me tell you, try driving it on 93rd between Main St and Broadway and you'll here the squeaks and rattles.

Otherwise, I love the looks and the performance of the car. I have 29K on the car already. I just wish Pontiac could really build a "tight" car.

grimreaper_4u

Actually, I bought the car from Anderson, I get it serviced at Walker pontiac in Bowie.

kormylka

My mom has a '97 Grand Prix, and she has a problem with the headlight cover falling off. She noticed one day that it was missing. The dealer replaced at n/c because it was under warranty. Today, she was at the dealer having the oil changed, and another woman with a '98 had the same problem. This is the third time it had happened to her. And the dealer wanted to charge her $150 to replace it because the warranty had expired. Anyone else have that problem.

graphicguy

My brother-in-law is a GM design engineer for future products (not neccessarily Pontiac, but works on all future GM mid-size platforms). He said testing is ongoing for these platforms (which the GP is one of).

2002 would be the soonest for an update.

They are testing a 3.5 (now in the Intrigue) with a supercharger. They are also testing smaller V8s in the "sport" versions.

He said some "freshening" of the current design will happen either next year or 2002 (if they don't release a new GP design in 2002).

kazz

Pontiac has already announced that 2003 will be the new model year for the GP.

Improvements for 2000 include a rearview mirror with compass and exterior temperature gauge, redesigned steering wheel, and dual climate controls for all versions of the GP. It's sort of a "mid-run freshening" for the model. They are also planning another limited-run car, like this years' Daytona Pace car replica.

ruski

while they are at it, they should add heating elements to the front passenger's seat.

graphicguy

anyone seen any "spy" photos of what the 200? new model redesign of the GP is supposed to look like?

Will it just look like a smaller Bonneville?

96gs

I hope not.

dhanley

I think this car's acceleration and power is OK. Does anyone have info about handling enhancements for this car? can i get it up to, say, .85 skidpad or higher? Edmunds lists it as .79 stock.

dave

kazz

Okay, I'm a little fuzzy on what a skidpad is. And what does a car need to make it better on a skidpad?

I did notice a while back that when Edmund's did the "fun cars to drive" chart they boosted the 300M (listed as .79 in their review) tom.8 so it would make it, but didn't do that for the GP. Kinda takes the wind out of that whole "we don't discriminate against GM" line of theirs.

vcjumper

Go to a web-site like www.gp-owners.com and in the forum you can hear from tonnes of people that have modded their GP's.

ruski

you can also check mailing list atchives on www.grandprix.net

things that people have done:

- front and rear strut tower bars (available from RAT (expensive) or Buick dealers ($19, but you have to drill holes in the strut towers))

- thicker front and rear sway bars

- polyurethane bushings

- better tires

Some this stuff is also available from the online store at the www.grandprix.net site.

P.S. I have seen a 300M measured at .83g on a skidpad. Can't remember which magazine.

heng

Just remember, if you go the whole route Ruski outlined you are sacrificing a decent ride for handling.

jpstax

I just found out, to my astonishment, that the Regal GS's seats do NOT have a lumbar control. I had my heart set on buying one this fall, but since the GTP seats DO have a lumbar control, I may change my mind. However, a guy in the Regal topic said the absence of a lumbar control doesn't really matter to him because his Regal GS seats are already very comfortable. Any comments?

graphicguy

Depends on what you want.

The Buick Regal seats seem to be more of a "cushy" seat that you sink into compared to the GTP.

I like my GTP's seats. Although firmer than the Regal's, they are very comfortable and seem to "fit" me better (I'm 6'1", 190 lbs). Lumbar is good on long trips, but I tend to set it, forget it when just riding around locally.

vcjumper

I don't think any of the things Ruski mentioned stiffen up the suspension in a straight line (unless you get tires with a lower profile or stiffer sidewalls). They reduce understeer/lean in turns (thicker sway bars, polyurethane bushings) and lessen the effect of body flex in turns/over bumps (strut tower bars).

heng

The thicker sway bars will result in more left to right pitching of your head when going over one wheel bumps and dips. The urethane bushings will transmit a lot more of every crack and expansion joint in the road. Same goes for high performance struts.

ruski

I never drove a Regal GS but my '96 Buick Riviera's seats were very compfortable. Although they had lumbar support. Buick is known for compfortable seats (but then BMW guys will tell you that their cars' seats a much better because they are firmer).

Grand Prix only has lumbar support for the driver's seat. Also only the driver's seat is heated.

The power lumbar support is 4-way which is nice.

I just drove my GTP from NYC area to Fort Lauderdale, FL - the trip was 20 hours and I felt very comfortable with the car's seats as well as with the rest of the car.

96gs

My Regal GS's seats are very comfortable. In fact, I've had people almost fall asleep just on short trips. You just kind of sink into the seats like a recliner. They don't really look very supportive, side bolster wise, but they hold you surprisingly well while cornering. Mainly because you sort of sink into the seat. I have never sat in a GP so I can't tell you the difference.

http://www.geocities.com/gs96_2000

tdheim

I have a 99 GTP with 10k miles. I have noticed a clunk/clank that appears to be coming from the front end on minor bumps and rough roads. Sounds like a bad rubber bushing somewhere,but it seems rather early in the cars life for that. Anyone experience something similar or is there a bulletin out that anyone is aware of for the 99
Grand Prix with regard to front end noise.

ruski

I have a theory - does your GTP have an HUD? My HUD has made a clunking sound when going over some speed bumps at certain speeds.

mrivers

I had a clunk due to a "misaligned" motor/tranny mount. It clunked randomly, until I took it to the dealership, who suprisingly enough, knew exactly how to reproduce it. Reverse + Hard on the gas = Clunk, since the fix it's never done it again.

eblum

I had the same noise on my 98 GT from 4,000 miles to 40,000 miles. DO you know how to fix it? Have GM buy the piece of crap back...

THe front end noise was just one of over 12 problems I had...the dealership, Davis Pontiac in Richboro, heard the noise (around 37,000 miles...they finally took the crap out their ears one day) and wouldn't fix it...

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!

rascalman

Thincking about buying a Grand prix GT. I have been doing alot of looking on the net about this car. I have found numerous transmition problems, stalling problems, and a variaty of engin problems ranging from alternators to radiators problems. So far i have not been able to find anyone willing to give me any info discounting my questions. Even asked dealer and they were evasive and could not get a sraight answer.
Please help???!!!???

I realy like the GP but don't want a car thats going to give me problems because this will be the wifes car. I would hate to go with other advice I have gotten and go with a Toyota or Nissan.