Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    I have to agree with you on the Bonneville room..they eat, sleep, live and breath what they are going to put on their cars next. The thing that makes me wonder...if they want more HP, why didn't they spend a few more grand and buy a 'vette or a T/A or something? Or, more than likely they are tapped out already...we all know the bonnies aren't cheap. lol I know when I was on my HP kick, I was going to buy a T/A, but just decided I wanted the luxury of the Bonnie instead. And also, I could be wrong (it's happened once or twice before..lol) but, doesn't it void your warranty when you go doing things like they are doing? Especially if you are doing it yourself? I don't know...I thought it did...but, if it does, it's not my problem, is it? hehe Well, I hope everyone is doing well, and yes, I still love my Bonnie!! Talk to you all soon!
  • bdstriebdstrie Member Posts: 18
    Hey fellas and ladies...

    Wanting to get some reflective concepts rear kits and badge overlays, but am having trouble picking a color.

    My baby's red, and I like the way the red looks, but in some photos on some peoples' websites, the red lettering doesn't look like it matches the red on the car.

    I also like white, but am nervous that white on red will be garish or too much.

    Any opinions/thoughts/experiences--especially from red GP owners on what looks best?

    THANKS
  • sunfgtsunfgt Member Posts: 40
    Anyone ever had the chance to race one?
  • kazzkazz Member Posts: 23
    Hey Blue,

    I think that the warranty is only voided if the modification can be demonstrated to have a harmful effect on the part that breaks. In the case of a GTP, the transmission is already "max rated" by GM at 280 ft/lbs of torque. So if you add a smaller pulley to the supercharger and up the torque of the car, and your tranny later breaks, the dealer can (with good confidence) argue that you ignored GM's posted maximum tolerances for the part in question and refuse to cover the incident with warranty work. It's the devil's game with L67 engine owners (the same engine, BTW, that is in the supercharged Bonnie) that we all know the engines can safely produce MUCH more than 240 HP (like, try over 300 without too much expense), but that our transmissions can't take that kind of pressure.

    The short answer: It only voids the warranty ON THE PART AFFECTED by the mod, and the dealer has to show that it has a good potential to be the culprit. And I mean good potential. They can't just point at a part, say "that's not stock," and void your warranty (though they might try to tell you so).

    Kazz
  • kazzkazz Member Posts: 23
    Sunfgt, it isn't really a race. The Maxima hasn't got anywhere near the power of a GTP. A GT, but not a GTP. IF the Maxima driver has a manual, and IF he gets a great launch and you get a really bad one, maybe. But that would be about it.

    How are you liking your Sunfire? My last car was a Sunfire GT. It was a lot of fun, but I was a little too tall for it...(6'2", and a little squished on long runs).
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    While my Honda's rear bumper is being
    replaced (some nice lady rear-ended me at the traffic light), I am renting a '00 Grand Prix SE.

    What a piece of junk! The dashboard rattles
    on even smooth surfaces, switchgear & materials feel extremely cheap, and the overall fit-and-finish is vastly inferior to that of Japanese cars. The seating position is awful, the seats are pathetic. I realize it is not a GT or GTP and its 3.1 Liter is not as strong, but they all share the same backward platform.

    I haven't owned an American-made car in 10 years,
    and after driving this thing, I probably never will.

    Sorry Pontiac, you are worthless!
  • sunfgtsunfgt Member Posts: 40
    Actually, the reason I asked was because I've been seeing a lot of ads for the 2001 Maxima on TV recently, for their 20th anniversary. I don't know if you see the same ads that I do, but I'm seeing the ones with the max tearing up the desert and then screeching to a stop for a flower in its path. Along with that, they have the black background with the white letters and scrolling numbers, quoting 0-60 in 6.7 seconds. Yeah, that's undoubtably the SE with the stick, but I think GTP's 0-60 is around the same. Nevertheless, a GTP should easily win a stoplight race because of the way it's set up, but I'd like to know if someone has verified this; Ruski tends to run into a lot of racing-minded people :) As for GT vs. auto Max, I'd also like to know what would happen there (tsjay seems to be the only one with a GT).

    The reason why all this is going through my mind is because the Maxima is about the only real competitor for the GP. Both are sports sedans and both in roughly the same price range, GP is cheaper by a bit. Incidentally, I noticed that a Max SE vs. GTP topic has recently started. But actually the underlying reason for my musings is that my mom may be looking into a new car because the old one is giving problems (broke a timing belt over the weekend, no damage though). Have an Eagle Vision TSi; very nice car, but as I'm sure you know, the first gen. LH cars have their share of problems. GP and Max seem pretty close to the Vision, so they would be stuff I'd recommend her to take a look at.

    BTW, Sunfire GT is a great first car. I'm glad I didn't go for the Civic. The car is a lot of fun, but I agree it's not the largest. It fits me just fine, but I'm almost 6" shorter than you and my head is pretty close to the roof. Still, I like it a lot.
  • koolguy123koolguy123 Member Posts: 37
    Actually, Japenese cars aren't really that well built anymore, if you read a review here on edmunds (somewhere) they tested an Accord and said it had Suprisingly low build quality. The same goes for alot of Japenese cars nowadays, They're not that great ya know. "Pontiac you are worthless" ? I don't think so, They are the ones who pioneered fuel injection remember, no I'm not old, I just read Pontiac's history. BTW the seat position etc. are all in your opinion, not everyone's
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    Post the link where it says Accords have low build quality (I bet you won't find it!).

    Pontiacs (i.e. Chevys and other GM crap) hold no automotive value in my eyes. I am amazed that people are still buying these things when much better cars are available in the same price range.
  • sunfgtsunfgt Member Posts: 40
    Here's that link

    http://edmunds.com/edweb/wardlaw/98Family.Sedan.Comparo.rt.html

    I think that the point of this is that the reputation of Japanese vehicles is no longer true. Although most of them may be put together very well, the testers finding one that had problems argues against the common belief that all of them are flawless and bulletproof. I think that the drop in quality is because now Honda is selling so many cars, they have to increase production output rapidly. When production is increased that fast, quality suffers. American cars are produced in far greater numbers than Japanese cars, so theoretically, they would suffer more from production line neglect.

    About squeaks and rattles, another reason why Japanese cars may not have them is because of their mush suspension settings. The stiffer you set the suspension, the more of the bumps you and the car feel, and the more likely something will be shaken loose and make noise. A soft suspension may avoid this, but then you can't have any fun in the twisties.

    One last thing. Experience with rental cars may not always be representative. Because it's not theirs, people who had the car before you may have hacked it a bit, and so it probably won't be the same as if it was driven nicely.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    post a link to an official source that says that Grand Prix's platform is "backward".

    You started by badmouthing the car's interior (OK, Grand Prix is not as nice as a Lexus inside), and then you conclude that the whole platform is backward and these cars are worthless. And all that based on your personal experience with a rental car! You are quite an analyst.




    sunfgt - for some reason I have never run into any race-minded Maxima drivers. I passsed quite a few on the highway, many of them were SE. Maybe they were trying to race, but I would never know. On the other hand some guy driving an Avalon was trying to give me a hard time. Just about any car today will go past 100mph. I usually race up to a reasonable speed and then stop (no need to expensive tickets here). A lot of people who get beaten in acceleration eventually catch up and need to prove that they are faster.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Keep in mind the car you had was a RENTAL. People abuse these cars. I rented a Corolla in Florida last year and it was a rattle trap also. Doesn't mean Toyotas are junk.
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    My rental is a brand new '00 model with fewer than 1000 miles on the odometer, so it is not
    "abused" as many rentals are. Second of all,
    my Accord Coupe's suspension is much stiffer than that in the Pontiac, so here goes that argument.

    Grand Prix is a generic Detroiter with a very low fun-to-drive quotient. The car lacks the road feel, and the steering is not precise.

    I would like to say that GP makes a very smooth cruiser with low noise.

    My verdict: a competent family sedan with descent performance and good automatic transmission.
    In the same league as Camry, Maxima, and Accord?

    Not even close.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    go test drive a GTP and then make your verdicts.
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    I personally would never own a car with an automatic transmission. If you truly are an enthusiast, you have to go with a manual gearbox.
    This is one of the reasons why I would never own an American car: no fun-to-drive manual-transmission cars available in my price range ($20-$30k).

    My favorite setup is a smooth and high-revving 4-cylinder with a precise short-throw 5-speed. It
    combines great fuel economy with unmatched control over the engine's torque curve. A true enthusiast would agree with me here. I am not a drag racer, and I don't care how big my engine is.

    Let that little old lady in a Buick Le Sabre
    utilize the ease of 2 big pedals and a no-brainer slush box and let me shift for myself.

    My favorite "fun" cars available today:

    Honda Accord (2.3-5 speed)
    Acura Integra GS-R
    BMW (3 or 5-series - 5/6 speed)
    Nissan Maxima SE (5-speed)
  • no_painno_pain Member Posts: 4
    I hear a slight inconsistent rattling under the car. sounds like a possible catalatic converter. not sure. I still have 20000 miles on my warranty. had anybody else experienced this problem? Other than that, I love every thing else
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    could be brake pads. Sometimes they are loose and rattle.
  • no_painno_pain Member Posts: 4
    dont think its the break pads because it seems to fluctuate with me stepping on the gas, even if im not moving
  • no_painno_pain Member Posts: 4
    dont think its the break pads because it seems to fluctuate with me stepping on the gas, even if im not moving
  • greywolfgreywolf Member Posts: 51
    [Grand Prix is a generic Detroiter with a very low
    fun-to-drive quotient. The car lacks the road feel,and the steering is not precise.]

    Bohlen, before you open your mouth be sure what you say is fact. First of all you are comparing a rental SE. For starters, the SE doesn't share the same ENGINE, TRANSMISSION, SUSPENSION AND STEERING as the GTP. So before knocking the car, know exactly what you are talking about.

    Drive a GTP, then you will see your fun to drive quotient will turn around. Ask any GTP owner - and they probably say their #1 reason for buying one is because of it's fun to drive. And they don't want some crappy little VTEC engine screaming at 6,000 RPM to give them the power they want.

    Also, people get the GTP because of it's features and style. Please don't make me laugh - the accord and camry are as plain vanilla as you can get. Integra?? I don't think any GTP owner would even consider one.

    The Maxima I respect. Great engine, 5 speed. OK style. I came close to buying one, but in the end the style, engine, and features (i.e. HUD) of the GTP won me over. I have 7500 squeak, rattle and problem free miles thus far.


    BMW's are nice also - but you are now talking lots more $$$'s. It's a different demographic - so it's silly to compare. I dont think a BMW owner would consider a Honda.
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    How can you call VTEC a "crappy engine" when it is the most technologically advanced engine
    available. VTEC (valve timing and electronic lift
    control) allows for the best horsepower-to- displacement ratio in a normally aspirated engine.
    For example, Honda S2000 has a 2.0L engine with
    240 horsepower which translates into 120 horsepower per liter. Integra GS-R
    with a 1.8 Liter and 170HP produces a whopping 94HP per liter...enough said.

    Grand Prix GT's normally aspirated 3.8 Liter has 200HP rating which roughly translates into 53HP per liter, and even a supercharged version with 240HP is only 63HP per liter...pathetic.

    The 3.8 Liter engine is an old-timer. It first appeared two decades ago and underwent many
    changes since then, but in essence it is still an
    old iron block 2 valve per cylinder configuration.
    That's what I would call "crappy".
  • estopestop Member Posts: 10
    Gee,now I'm going to have to wait 'till next week to log on again. bohlen will probably have received enough attention by then, and have moved on to annoy someone else.
    I just can't stand snobs.
  • greywolfgreywolf Member Posts: 51
    Hahah I knew calling the VTEC engine crappy would get you going!

    I'm not going to start a flame war about whats better than what. The fact is the 3800 I have in my GTP gives me a stock HP for 240hp, 280lb foot of torque which is available instantly at any RPM.

    You fail to mention the RPM's the Integra GS-R or any VTEC engine needs to attain to get all that horsepower. Read this link to find out:

    http://members.tripod.com/~juan_espero/lowpro.html

    In either case it's stupid to compare an Integra GS-R with a GTP. I don't think potential buyers would lump the two together. One is small performance import and the other is a larger performance sedan with room for 5.

    That doesn't change any of the facts, that what you said about the GRand Prix was based on an experience with the SE which is worlds different than a GTP. Even GTP owners knock it.

    Can you accept that you were wrong making those assumptions? I you can accept that...then you will be credible. I will try to remain credible by taking back what I said about the VTEC being crap. But it isn't the be-all-end-all of engines.
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    OK. I admit that GP SE is inferior to GT & GTP in many respects. I need to drive GTP and compare.

    What's the deal with "Toys R US" big buttons on the radio and window controls.

    Regarding the link you posted...they are comparing
    TURBO engines with NORMALLY ASPIRATED engines! That is nonsense.
  • mriversmrivers Member Posts: 9
    "In the same league as Camry, Maxima, and Accord?"

    And what's so special about those cars? snooze, ugly, dull. (respectively)

    "What's the deal with "Toys R US" big buttons on
    the radio and window controls."

    Geebus christ, that's pretty petty. My older Maxima's button aren't any smaller.

    I suppose you could just pull the knob off the radio, and just turn the metal shaft, would that be better? Maybe GM should just replace it with a screw head, then it wouldn't take up any space.

    "they are comparing TURBO engines with NORMALLY ASPIRATED"

    You didn't seem to mind comparing specific use performance motors (S2000, ITR) to what is basically a general purpose motor.

    Ofcourse HP/L is a completely worthless measure.
  • kazzkazz Member Posts: 23
    I usually try to stay out of flames, but will point something out. I'm a tall guy with big fingers. One of the key things that turned me off from the 300M was that the switchgear felt small and flimsy next to the nice, large, tactile buttons on the GP. Please don't forget that when cars are designed, the are designed for the entire demographic intended to use them. In the US, that means switchgear your don't have to hunt for (or take your eyes off of the road for), and cars with good legroom for taller drivers.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    remember the first reviews of the Honda S2000 when it came out? MotorTrend's and Car & Driver's testers could not make it do 0-60 faster than 7.something seconds (or was it 8 seconds?) and could not figure out why. They just blamed it on tires and pavement. Yeah, right.

    As for your beloved HP/L ratio - so what? What is the real world benefit of it? Pigeon free roads because all the pigeons got scared of the screaming engine and flew away?

    Is a 240 HP 2.0L engine more powerful than a 240 HP 3.8L engine?
  • 96gs96gs Member Posts: 86
    The 3.8 is obviously much bigger than the engines mentioned above, but that doesn't make it any less admirable. The 3.8 (because it's so torquey) will lope along at 2000rpm at 75mph on the highway and not make a sound. This is great because it makes highway cruising so much more enjoyable. You can actually hear passengers talking for instance. This engine is relatively cheap to make, weighs little for a V6, and gets up to 30mpg on the highway.
  • greywolfgreywolf Member Posts: 51
    Re-read the title of the article
    "Honda Lover's Delusion: Honda & Acura engines are more powerful than American V8s"

    They made one reference to a domestic small displacement engine with a turbo. The entire articles point though was torque and horsepower count. How many hp/litre doesn't.

    Now you are grasping straws making fun of the buttons. What next? You don't like the way it smells?

    I could take ANY car under 25k regardless of make and come up with a list of things they did to cut corners. With my GTP, and yes, with any Honda or Toyota.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    "My verdict: a competent family sedan with descent performance and good automatic transmission. In the same league as Camry, Maxima, and Accord?"

    In the same price range? A 3.1 SE is the same price as a 4 cyl Accord/Camry. I'll take a six over a four any day!

    "The 3.8 Liter engine is an old-timer. It first
    appeared two decades ago and underwent many
    changes since then, but in essence it is still an
    old iron block 2 valve per cylinder configuration. That's what I would call "crappy".

    The 3.8L is one of the most reliable, fuel efficient engines on the market. It's may use "older" technology, but it's an VERY good engine.

    Please compare apples to apples before you go on a rant. The GP you drove was a car produced for rental companies. They are base models. The base accord/Camry are nothing to write home about either.

    A better comparison to your Accord would be an Intrigue. I'm sure you will like that!
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Does anyone know where the Grand Prix ranks in number of vehicles sold in its class and in overall car sales regardless of class?

    I would sure like to know. It seems that I see a lot of them on the road wherever I go.

    I can see why they sell so well- I sure love mine (see post #255).

    By the way, I'm up to 15K miles with absolutely no problems. The car has still had only routine maintenance and no repairs/adjustments.

    tsjay
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Get a GRIP.
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    You own an Impala? Your car is THE UGLIEST vehicle
    I have ever seen. What motivated you to buy this
    piece of s..t?
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    what motivated you to show so much class?
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    His "get a grip" comment, pal.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Say what you will, I am not going to lower myself to your lack of class.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    To buy an Impala?

    Answer = 10 years of Hond/Acura products as follows:

    1989 Accord LX (5-Speed)
    1990 Accord DX
    1994 Accord LX
    1995 Integra LS Sedan (5-Speed)
    1996 Accord LX
    1997 Acura 2.5TL

    Good time for a change, don't you think?
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    And what prompted this change: your dissatisfaction with Honda/Acura?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Is there really a need to act like this. Please be civil.
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    Did not mean that...sorry.
  • greywolfgreywolf Member Posts: 51
    Bohlen is here just to nit pick. He says nothing
    productive, and is focusing the discussion away
    from the Grand Prix (which is the name of this
    forum) to Honda/Acura vs. Domestics.

    I don't think anyone has to justify why they
    purchased their car to him. I think the Accord is
    ugly...he thinks the Impala is ugly. WHO
    CARES!!!!!???? They aren't GRand Prix related.

    So just to remind you what this forum is about...

    image

    image

    image
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    You guys are so easily offended...all I said was that Grand Prix is an inferior, gas-guzzling, overstyled behemoth loaded with 70's technology and cheap toys such as HUD, making it incapable to compete with similarly priced Japanese rivals...com'mon what did I say to offend you?
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    bohlen is just jealous because his cars don't have any toys to play with. Since they are toys themselves. I bet you bohlen, my HUD is still more expensive than your trike.

    greywolf - that has to be Zaino shine.

    Ha... gas guzzling... my GTP did 27mpg when I drove it from NYC to Florida, with wife in the passenger seat, A/C on, and bags, boxes, and suitcases full of stuff in the rear seats and in the trunk. Bohlen, try to transport that on your trike.

    HUD allows me to see a lot of the important info without having to look down at the instrument panel or the stereo. It sure would be nice if it also showed outside temp and the settings on the dual zone automatic climate control. Bohlen you should go find a military pilot and tell him that the HUD in his F-15 is a cheap useless toy.

    Overstyled... I think you are talking about some other car, really. Maybe a Tiburon?
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    You seem to get pretty 'Jumpy' when others criticize your beloved Honda Accord. I sincerely fail to understand your agenda in this forum by openly trashing the Pontiac Grand Prix and to some extent getting on the offensive with the owners of these vehicles. This is not the place for 'Crusades and Campaigns'or to attack those who think differently from you just becuase they don't view the Accord under the same light as you personally do.

    People interested in gathering information regarding the Pontiac GP come here only to find rants and unfounded claims written by someone who hates domestic automobiles and also by someone who doesn't even own the car being discussed here.

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it makes me wonder if you get some sort of weird pleasure by upsetting others about their vehicle choice.

    You are doing no service to potential or current GP owners with your comments.

    If youlove your Honda so much, go and help your fellow Honda Accord owners which are currently experiencing failed automatic transmissions, fuel boil overs, interior rattles, paint finish problems among other issues that plague the current Accord generation.

    Since you area true Honda believer, I don't think
    you belong here.

    Honda/Acura: Been there done that! I am not so much dissatisfied as I am more dissapointed in how they completely have made a turn for the worse in quality and design. Killing the Legend, Vigor and letting go on the Integra re-designed for more than 6 model years have been factors that finally drove me away from these overhyped and overpriced products. the Accord is boring and the same 1980's concept generation model after generation model.

    And also my friend, I really got tired of driving underpowered VTEC four bangers and Jerky Automatic transmissions. the 3800 Series II V-6 in N/A and Supercharged versions has been awarded the Ward's automotive 10 best V-6 engines in the world, list that no Honda or Toyota V-6 has ever made into, only Nissan.

    I enjoy blasting Toy Accords and watching them dissapear from my rear view mirror.....

    The Impala at least has some personality unlike the generic plain vanilla looking Accord.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    You are certainly doing one thing very well: Providing full amusement to this topic! ;-)
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    What do they know about 'Style??' That word is as foreign to them as the car itself.

    MADE FOR THE ME TOO MASSES!
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    I am not saying all Japanese cars are flawless...
    I had a '99 Mitsu Diamante (top-of-the-line), and
    (for ruski), loaded with toys, which was a terrible product. I am a car enthusiast, and
    I am not trying to get on your nerves here...I am simply curious what drives people to buy Pontiacs
    and Chevys, that's all. Why not be civilized and debate politely?

    I value technology, and personally I see no technological innovation on part of GM. HUD?
    Give me a break. My Grand Prix SE averages 15 miles per gallon in a city...who need HUD? You need a spare gas tank!
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    I know teo ;-) This topic would be dead without me...what else would you guys talk about: NASCAR racing?
  • bohlenbohlen Member Posts: 21
    Teo,

    I know that Pontiac buyers are not known for good taste :-).I personally prefer the understated design of my EX Coupe.
This discussion has been closed.

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