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Comments
* Price/Content ratio
* Lower routine maintenance expenses
* Lower Insurance Premiums
* Driving fun factor
* Style
* Bulletproof powertrains
* Torquey, powerful and fuel frugal V-6's
* Smooth world class Automatic transmissions
* Crash Safety (Impala scores 5 stars Front, 4 side...while accord only takes 4 stars front)
* Ease to obtain performance upgrades/parts/repairs
* good quality and realibility
* Value for the dollar
And many others....Ruski and Dindak, care to add more to this list?
out of the Pontiac lineup, followed by Sunfire, Firebird, Bonneville, and GP.
Also, all Pontiacs have the worst interior
design in the GM family: huge buttons, cheap plastic...etc.
Honda is "plain vanilla"..I like plain vanilla...mmmmm!
* Lower routine maintenance expenses DISAGREE
* Lower Insurance Premiums NEUTRAL
* Driving fun factor STRONGLY DISAGREE
* Style STRONGLY DISAGREE
* Bulletproof powertrains AGREE EXCEPT 3.1 LT
* Torquey, powerful and fuel frugal V-6's ? FUEL FRUGAL?!!
* Smooth world class Automatic transmissions AGREE
* Crash Safety (Impala scores 5 stars Front, 4
side...while accord only takes 4 stars front)WHY NOT?
* Ease to obtain performance pgrades/parts/repairs
HUH?
* good quality and realibility DISAGREE
* Value for the dollar AGREE
As for GP's ergonomics - many magazines pointed out good ergonomics. Some reviewers did not like the plastics.
Hey bohlen, I forgot to mention that some GTPers report 30 or 31mpg on long trips. That's very good fuel economy for a car that will annihilate your beloved Accord in the acceleration department.
Those muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's were certainly low tech compared to today's standards, but would I ever love to have a brand new '66 GTO, or a '69 Chevelle, or a Roadrunner, or any one of a few others from my high school or college days.
I enjoy my 2000 Grand Prix GT, and I don't care if it has the latest technology in every category.
The 3.8 is a proven engine over a long period of time, so the reliability means more to me than whether it is high tech or not. The 200 horses and the 225 ft-lbs of torque give the car enough power to make it fun to drive, at least for me. I know it isn't the fastest thing on the road, but it is still responsive enough to be enjoyable.
Styling is a personal preference, and I happen to think that there are very few cars that look nearly as good as the Grand Prix, and none in its price range even come close.
I have gotten as high as 31.5 mpg on highway driving, so what's the matter with that?
After 15K miles, the car has had to have no repairs or adjustments of any kind. It hasn't been back to the dealer for anything other than oil changes and tire rotation.
The car is air tight, water tight, and rattle free.
It has a very nice sized trunk, especially for the overall size of the car.
Call it low-tech if you want to, but it is a very, very nice car that I am happy with.
tsjay
How's it going with the Bonnie????
I'm up to 15,000 miles on mt GP GT, and still enjoying it. Got 31.0 miles per gallon on a trip to Wisconsin, but was actually a little disappointed- wanted to break my all-time record of 31.5 mpg.
Holler at me.
tsjay
I personally find the Honda EX V6 to be a good car and a heck of a bargain compared to the TL. I recently helped my sister by an EX V6 for $22K. The 2001 EX will improve even more with in-dash 6 disk CD and more power for the stereo.
That said, I find the buttons on the GP to be very easy to use. I went so far as to pull the buttons off the GP and the Acura. In general, the only difference is the design of the buttons, the shape and the "finish" of the buttons. The plastic on either the Acura/Honda and the GP are pretty much the same.
BTW--I drive a lot and have well over 34k miles on my 2K GTP. No squeaks, rattles, or anything else. Only take my car to the dealer for oil changes and tire rotations (just replaced the air filter myself). The GP is very inexpensive to maintain. I saw an article in MT that stated that their Acura CL-S cost $300 for 15K mile maintenance. My GTP cost $40 for the same maintenance (oil change and tire rotation) with a dealer coupon.
After having 2 Accords, 1 Camry, 1 Avalon and 2 BMW 3 Series in my household, the GTP is the least expensive car to maintain that I've ever owned.
Not only does it make them very hard to get off, but it will warp the roters. The manual calls for 100ft/lb of torque for the lug nuts.
I went to Straus Discount Auto to buy a torque wrench. The drone in the store didn't even know what it was...finally a guy behind the counter pulled one out. Looked at it, and saw it went to 600inch/lbs...which is 50ft/lbs...so I said I need something to do 100ft/lbs and the guy said "It does 600"...and I go "yeah...inch lbs...thats nothing. NEedless to say I ordered a craftsman from Sears.com...
Straus..what a joke. They didn't know what a clay bar was last year.
Did the low traction light come on?
Also do you think you would be better off stopped by TCS in the middle of the intersection? I'd rather spin and move than get bogged down.
Still having fun in my Feb. '00' GP. Fun car to drive. Like to smoke most cars, even the Honda Accord, (Heh Heh) even though the Accord is a nice car. Almost purchased one. Went with the GP.
Does anyone have any tips on how to touch-up minor chips (darn freeways) and small scraches on the finish of the car? Glad to hear any ideas from any of you.
Saw a GP with mud flaps on it. Car still looked good. Will do the same before winter hits. (Cleveland winters can be a bear)
Gota go now. Have to work some time today.
One should take a look at Langka:
http://www.langka.com/
Put a set of Michelin X-ones on. I've had these on other vehicles and they would be at least on par (if not better) than the LSs in terms of grip, steering response, wet road grip, etc. So I didn't feel I had to go with a higher performance rubber. They definitely have a higher wear rating.
What tires have you other GP folk put on your GP's?
I'm not a "hot rodder" but I do drive "aggressively". Sounds like your LSs didn't last nearly as long as they should have.
bohlen--me believes that your last post just got a one way ticket out of here. See 'ya...wouldn't want to be 'ya.
When I got my 2000 GTP (in Sep 99) I got my $2500 GM card discount.....
Thats really a good deal....they should fly fast.
Also I have a question - does on-star require you pay a monthly fee. I see new GTPS's come with it standard...wonder if you have to pay after a while
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L8_Apex
Sedans Host
Don't know if X-ones are Hi-Perf enough for GTs and GTPs but the SEs are no slouches either.
I bought my GP, A Daytona limited edition, on Feb.29, 2000. I posted a likes/dislikes post then, and thought a follow-up at a bit over 6 months might help people who were considering the car. Here's what the stats are:
@4,000 miles (low, I know), 1 oil change. The car still rumbles (and I do like the rumble) to life at the slightest twitch of the starter. The engine continues to please and provide power on demand. The finish is still gleaming silver, with no apparent defects (the Edmunds "Spin around town" commented on big body panel gaps and such, but I don't seem to have any). The car still looks brand-new (okay, so I only have 4,000 miles. But the car's never covered, either).
Likes: Still love the power, like the fact that it seems game in most types of weather, pretty good braking, comfy seats, dual climate control. LOVE the HUD. The damned thing's like crack. Once you get used to it... I like the feel and looks of the car, though I am planning to upgrade the sway bars for better cornering. I have the BOSE audio system, but replaced the in-dash CD for an in-dash (Delco)cassette w/EQ. The sound difference was night and day better. I also feel very safe in my car. The car may heel a bit when made to do a fast switch, but it still goes, and holds the road tight when it does. I had an almost-too-close encounter with a lane-shifting dump truck (owie) that would have crumped my car up (and, by painful extension, me)like a beer can if I'd been driving my old Sunfire. On this car, a hard stomp on the gas and a hard pull to the left, and I was able to dodge that sucker clean. It may not perform like a "real" sportster, but I'm very glad it behaves the way it does, I have to say. It has good guts and good handling, much better than I would expect on a car this big.
Dislikes: The headlamps are weak. Weaker than either a Sunfire or Grand Am. The wheels on the Daytona have spots where brake dust is pretty hard to get at. The car is low enough that curbs are sometimes a problem (but I'll live with it for the look and feel of the car). The rear-window defogger is pretty slow working on frost. The cupholders, while clever in design, are too small. Please note that, with the possible exception of the headlights (lots of deer here), I acknowledge these are petty things. But that's the stuff we notice, right?
Issues: We haven't had a perfect love affair, my GTP and me. The fuel pump sometimes makes a loud whining noise. The passenger-side window motor moans like it wants to give out (though it hasn't, it IS slower than the drivers-side). The dash makes occasional creaking noises, though whenever I check it out, it always turns out to be something in the glove box, or the center console (armrest), in all fairness. There is an odd and erratic "Tick" sound that sounds like a slow clock, that comes from either the steering column or the driver-side dash, I haven't pinned it down yet. Last, when the oil was changed, the threads on the drain plug came out WITH the drain plug. They secured it back in there, but the car will need a new oil pan at the next oil change.
So there you have it. A powerful, capable, comfortable and fun car, but not without a few weak spots in evidence. All told, so long as nothing else happens, I'd still rate the car an overall "A," for the combination of the above plus pricing. I wouldn't call it an A+, though, because of all these odd little things ( like the ticking noise or the whiny pump) that seem to crop up.
Cheers,
Kazz
ANother recommendation is to get some crush washers next time your at the dealer. I plan to do that at my next oil change. Will help prevent the threads from being damanged.
Also - I have the whiny pump as well. Another "normal" sound.
ABout the break dust, I found the best way to get it out is when you wash your car, soap up the wheels and use your hands to rub the dust off. Then I use a paper towel when everything dries to wipe off anything I missed. Wheels look like new.
Glad you like your GP like me.
How did you go about replacing the stereo head unit? Are you saying that Delco unit is better than Bose? Why didn't you replace it with the Delco CD unit with 7-band EQ?
For the dash, I'm wondering if putting some sort of foam insulation between the facia and the dash might stop the creaks.
For the wheels, the Daytona has three-spokes, with 3-spokes inside. I can't get my hands in there to scrub, hence the problem. A bristly wire should do the trick, though. I just need to buy one.
I swapped to the cassette with EQ because 1) I wanted a cassette player, and 2) the Bose, while nice, sounded "flat" to me. The EQ made a gigantic difference in both high and low ranges. The Delco works fine. For all the talk about "you have to go Bose" for the head unit, it didn't matter. It all works fine together, Bose speakers, Delco head and Delco (Pioneer) trunk changer. Besides, I didn't need the CD in the dash, since I was able to pick up the 12-disk trunk-mounted changer on the cheap. So, better sound, easier CD swapping, and a cassette deck to boot, all for less than $200. I went Delco because every time I've bought a nice stereo for my car, some [non-permissible content removed] has always broken in and stolen it. I'm just sick of finding my windows smashed, broken glass everywhere, my dash mangled, and maybe glass ground into my upholstery (now leather). I'm pretty content with with my upgrade, those things considered. To swap the unit, the wires are all there. It's just a question of swapping the head units and finding a way to mount the trunk changer (funny thing, that. The wiring is all there for it, but they don't drill the holes for the changer in the wheel well).
So far as price, they tried to gouge, so I went to a buying service (free with my company) and got it for $100 over invoice, no haggle. I can live with that. I also had to wait a week for the car, since it was just being shipped.
Mine has 16K miles and has not had even one teensy weensy little problem. How long can I count on that to continue (with proper care, that is)?
tsjay
My sound is definitly not the odometer..it's like a door opening and closing and happens at idle. Several other people I've spoke to had the same noise - so my guess it's a normal thing.
Turn the A/C temp all the way up or down, then turn it off.
She was steady as a rock at that speed, and you would never believe you were actually going that fast unless you looked at the speedometer.
I suppose they have a safety shut-off somewhere not much faster than what I was going. Anybody know?
tsjay
So if you start modding the car, i.e. pully replacement...and you keep adding up the HP's you get close to the max. Not to mention the increased heat the tranny is subjected to.
I have not seen chronic problems though with the transmision.
tsjay - max speed on the GTP is 126mph (Computer limited). You could go faster if you replaced the PCM...probably closer to 140 (you would need z rated tires)
I'm just curious, and not planning on driving that fast. That was the first time I'd even been up to 100 in mine, and it might be the last. I am not so much afraid of an accident as a ticket. Lord, what would they do to a guy for going 100 mph? And what would my insurance company think of such a thing?
tsjay
And what about Buick Regal GS? I guess, it have the same transmission?
I haven't seen any numbers on the transmissions for 2001 models, but I hear they also lose the performance shift option.
The Alero with 3.4 feels similar to the GP with 3.8. Not quite as much torque but the power to weight ratio feels similar. The Alero is what ~500 lbs lighter than the GP?
But putting a 3.1 into the GP? It must be a dog.