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Toyota Prius (First Generation)
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All three of these things happened two weeks ago. We used to get one or two order a month. We took 8 in the past week alone.
Toyota's Prius planning manager initially thought the sole competition for the Prius was Honda's Insight. But, they are fast learning thru surveys and internet message boards such as this that people are also starting to consider Prius alongside Taurus, Honda Accord, and Camry. I myself have had buyers settle for Camry CE vs. Prius rather than wait. Yes, the Camry CE is less costly too... that also is a motivating factor as well.
-Ret
http://www.sae.org/automag/features/prius/index.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35041-2001May2.html
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
:-)
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
We took delivery on our 2001 Prius in January. We live in mild northern California, so the following is based on temperatures from the 40's in January to 80's in May (eat your heart out fellows!). First off my wife is the principal driver of this vehicle. She does not have a heavy foot and will coast for a block until the red light turns green. Most of her driving is not in rush hours.
My computer indication, using standard 87 octane fuel, we consistently average 43 mpg in silicon valley light traffic. We have filled the tank twice (not letting it get too much below half tank) and gotten 39.6 and 39.7 mpg using the same pump in the same gas station. I should note that about half the time she is traveling alone and half with me.
The only highway trip we have taken is about 40 miles to Gilroy and return with three adults in the car. I drove one way at 65-70mph and the compute output said 43.7 mpg. My wife drove back at 60-65 and got 45.3 mpg. That makes me happy with near agreement to PEA figures for highway use.
I then took it in to my Toyota dealer for a warranty checkup as to why the city driving average of 43 mpg didn't come even close to the 54 mpg Toyota likes to brag about. I have gotten to know both Toyota Prius qualified specialists at this dealer. I have gone into the shop and scanned through their shop manuals. (Do you know that they haven't' been issued any manuals on the motor/generators or the planetary transmission? These could have been Echo manuals)
I noted to them that the engine ran fairly long compared to the free loaner they gave us (which also averaged 43 mpg) and suggested the cat convertor probe may be reading low. I also noted that upon return from the Gilroy trip we got two succesive 50+ mpg 5 minute computer readouts before it fell back to past readings and suggested that the fuel/air ratio compute may be making the engine rich and carbonizing the cat convertor (driving at high speed would tend to burn off any such deposits).
One of these two swell guys spent two days testing and driving our car and said all of the parameters (including the ones I had noted) were normal, The best he could get was also about 43 mpg, unless 1: you had on the defroster/airconditioning (this runs the motor full time and gets much poorer mileage), and 2: you went on long enough trips for the engine to heat up the absorber/cat convertor in only the earliest part of the trip and you accelerated slowly to the speed you wanted and then did no adjust the accelerator petal either up or down (Oh where is cruise control? 2002?) Try to do the latter in normal city traffic
I'd probably be sick if my car, a 2000 Camry, had an instantaneous and trip average readout (I'm probably lucky to hit 20mpg in the city with my heavy foot). Ignorance is bliss! But I wouldn't trade cars for a long road trip!
Several magazine articles have indicated the 43 mpg is achieveable in the city. Of course if you can hold you accelerator foot exactly in position while driving in traffic and over pot holes you may hit 50+mpg. Otherwise we're happy with the car. Try to accelerate from a standing start with an Echo and then with a Prius and note the difference on engine noise (Echo engine sounds like a old Beatle engine windup, versus the Prius's battery/motor start).
Sorry for the few typos in my original message. The spell check can't catch typos if they are spelled right.
Milt
-Ret
1. I must be deaf. The echo I have makes no loud noises on acceleration.Lots less than a Civic as tested [nice car though].
2.MPG in 55 F or better
a. last two trips on 90% hiway were 55 and 57.5 mpg respectively for trips of 200 mi. or better.
In the 42-45 range for trips of 5 miles or less. In-town range consistently in the 50's mpg for trips 8-10 mi. or better.
c.Check out egroups.com for info on accel. techniques, etc. SEVERAL choices for cruise. Have had mine working for several months now.
Don
gas-electric Hybrids. The new tax credit would be available from 2002 to 2007. Let's keep our fingers crossed
Very interesting response. I didn't mean to imply that the Echo made lots of noise. I don't own one and only drove a demo the same route as the Prius. The Prius motor (less than 15 mph) was much quietier than the shifting Echo.
Humm? 55-57 mpg on the highway?
Edmund's spec page for the Echo says:
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway) Automatic: 31 mpg / 38 mpg
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway) Manual: 34 mpg / 41 mpg
You didn't mention whether your Echo is stick shift or auto. Either way, you must be using some super fuel. How did you get such results? Tell us.
Also, please help me by providing names of the talk/news groups you suggest can provide cruise info. I have assumed you mean custom adding cruise control. The Toy mech. suggested that the Toyota conversion cost would be about $500. How much did yours cost??
Milt
There is a newsgroup on Yahoo that goes around for Prius owners, comes digest format and contains lots of updates, upgrades and sites for prius owners to make their car better. Like adding the cruise or 6-disc changer to dash. It's got to be easily located. I know I read it daily.
-Ret
Still, 55 mpg in town in a Prius is near incredible. Of course it could be the type of towns you and I live in. Ours, in Silicon Valley, has lots of stop lights. A 5 mile trip is uncommon. Ours are more like 1-5 (my wifes I should say). I'm just glad we got the 45 mpg on the highway trip we took.
I'll check out the Yahoo site as you suggest.
Milt
Don
If you drive mostly on the freeway, others say you are better off with an Echo or some other small car with good highway milegage.
Confusing.
Don
It could be as early as the end of this week that dealers could begin placing orders for the 2002's. As of now, you are still placing orders for the 2001. Once the regional offices receive the pricing for the 2002 Prius and all of the factory and dealer accessories at the regions, dealers will receive their own info packets. They work very quickly to communicate all information to all the dealerships as quickly as possible. No one has more than a 24 hour notice. Its coming up quick! I have heard that it could be as early as this Friday (May 18th) that we might begin taking orders for the 2002. And, from what I was told, the Prius production units could arrive in the U.S. by October or November. I will know more as time passes.
That is the scoop...and it's all I know right now.
-Ret
With the new Bush Energy Plan just announced, they include tax credits for buying hybrids like the Toyota Prius.
I think this could the impetus for Toyota to step up production and possibly seriously consider producing a hybrid-powered version of the upcoming replacement for the Toyota Corolla. Don't be surprised if Toyota steps up Prius production as much as 25%.
Fully developed, hybrids and diesels could make a serious dent in the U.S.'s endless thirst for gasoline.
I think until the entire USA switches to low-sulfur diesel fuel, you can forget about mass acceptance of diesel cars in the USA. This is because the high levels of sulfur compounds in current diesel fuel can damage the high-tech fuel-delivery systems used on European-market diesel engines.
Mind you, they would be perfect for a hybrid car given that diesel engine's lower-end torque peak makes it perfect for a hybrid powered car that does mostly city driving. :-)
It is a conventional alternative to hybrid that will obtain 45 to 50MPG hiway.
cruise control
Navigation system
side airbags
daytime running lights
and there are 7 additional PIO's (PORT extras:):
Single CD player
6-disc CD changer
alloy wheel locks
glass breakage sensor
cargo net
carpeted floor mats
front end mask (bra)
No word yet on pricing for the 2002 model or pricing for these extras.
-Ret
A funny thing. The paint at the dent came off rather thick, like their are many coats (or zinc coating plus primer plus several coats of paint). If this is a sign of the Prius paint job, I'm impressed (as well as depressed ) ; ) At least it wasn't me that put the first damage on it.
The point is that really high-mpg cars with usable amounts of room and mainstream ride/handling are scarce as hens' teeth. Which makes the Prius all that much more important in the marketplace...not that it is substantially easier to lay your hands on right now. Honda will shortly offer the hybrid drivetrain in the Civic, which will significantly widen the market for these kinds of cars. The Insight is just too specialized to be anything but a fringe player, but the Civic with a CVT and hybrid engine combo will be the first real competitor around here for the Prius.
-Ret, hoping they don't put non-available items in the 2002 Brochures!
Imagine what the Prius may evolve into in the next ten years!
A couple of weeks ago, the father of one of my kid's friends dropped by with a Prius, and knowing of my gearhead tendencies, offered to let me take it for a little spin.
A little background: I have a bit of a Tim Allen bent when it comes to cars ("More power, arrgh arrgh arrgh"). I currently drive a BMW M3, which has been modified for a bit (OK a lot) of extra power. I do driver's schools and open track lapping events, so I have a warped perspective about cars.
I found the Prius fascinating. Yeah, it's about as exciting as skim milk, but it works! It's quiet, rides decently, that electric motor gives it good off the line jump, and the whole experience is transparant to the user. The funniest thing for me was trying to predict when it would switch from gas to electric or vice-versa. I just couldn't do it. I concluded the computer's a whole bunch smarter than me.
If I was in the same situation as the guy who owned it (40+ mile commute each way as opposed to the 3 1/2 I deal with), I would buy one in a New York minute. He's getting consistent 47 MPG on his commute, and he got some whopping tax credits too.
Cool car.
Several of the posters have installed cruise control. I wonder if they have tried to take trips with and without the cruise control active and determined if the cruise control benefits fuel milage or just eliminates ones right leg weariness? Any comments?
Any tax incentives will only further distort the market and could lead to even higher costs. If the tax credit is $2000, then the vehicle price is about $2000 higher than otherwise which adds to State taxes and insurance costs.
I am not worried about repair costs past 100,000 miles because I have never kept any previus car anywhere near 100,000 miles and I would not have any intention of keeping a Prius to that mileage either.
Still, most people probably will not save enough fuel costs to justify the extra expense compared to similar cars. Many Prius buyers just plain like the car, the quietness, the way it drives, the low emissions, and the technology that comes with car. Tax rebates will make it a little more affordable and nullify part of the initial purchase expense. The statement that tax credits are going to make it more expensive does not make sense.
If I bought one, I would probably sell it by 50,000 miles and see what the next generation of hybrids are like by then.
-Ret
Japanese extras:
Cruise = $250.
Nav/GPS = $1900
Side impact airbags = $250
Daytime running lights = $40
PPO (post-production options)
single CD player = $335.00
6-disc in dash player = $589
carpeted floor mats = $89
wheel locks = $55
glass-breakage sensor = $147
That's it with the updates for now. Orders are still June 1, 10am EST as we're told.
-Ret
Catherine Heins is looking for people to interview who have switched from American to Japanese cars in the past few years-- especially folks who wouldn't have given a Toyota or Honda the time of day in the 1970s.
She's a business reporter at the Yomiuri Shimbun, which is the biggest daily paper in Japan with a circulation of 14 million. They are writing a feature story about Japanese automakers' continuing success in expanding production in the U.S. and snatching market share from the Big Three even on their former home turf of light trucks.
If you fit this description and are willing to be interviewed, please call her directly at 212-582-5827 or e-mail her at catheins@yahoo.com. As always, you can contact me at jfallon@edmunds.com if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
I was told that Toyota had stopped 2001 orders and that we would get a 2002 model. Can this be right? It sounds to me like the dealer simply didn't place the order even though we left a deposit and filled all the paper work out in March.
Now they say they don't know when the order will be filled, but that we are at the "head of the list" for 2002. Is this just a bunch of bull?
Will we be charged differently for the 2002 model than we agreed to for the 2001? $20,450.
They seemed like a bunch of chuckle heads, but I thought they could at least place the order even though they seemed to know NOTHING about the car.
Thanks for any info.
Paul
orders in May on 2001 cars and most will arrive in August. It is true that
the 2002 did not increase in price, so if they just placed the order, you
will get it in October but the price will not be any higher.
Unfortunately, it is very hard to get information from Toyota about the
status of your order. You will get an e-mail from Toyota about 3 weeks
before the car arrives. The dealer gets a phone call about a week before it
arrives. This is the only contact we have with Toyota after the initial
order is confirmed.
I also have one other suggestion if your dealership is giving you the run
around. If you e-mail me your confirmation number, I can at least look it
up to see if and when the order was placed. I can't involve myself in your
deal, but I would be glad to look up the status. My e-mail address is
sclifford@kjtoyota.com
Coinkydink?
1. My consumption screen said I am getting 48mpg but when I actually filled up my tank and calculated my mpg, it's only about 38mpg. Why is there such a big difference?
2. Is there any special tips on improving my mpg.
Any kind of info would be greatly appreciated!