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Thanks!
Just my two cents worth - my 02's stick is very smooth shifting, the throw may be a little long, and not very sporty, for some people, but it's fine for me. I just like to drive a stick for more control over my car.
BTW, is there really anything that important on the Corolla S that is not on the LE? I have noticed that the S is a lot more popular in my area, but I don't see why. They aren't really any cheaper than the LE and the LE really gets a lot of nice useful luxurios features.
Obviously your mom is a very smart woman and knows that you need to grow up and take some responsibility before you get behind the wheel! My hat goes off to her. Try changing your attitude and act more responsible and you just might be surprised what happens.
Remember, driving is a privilige(?) and not a right.
The Sandman :-)
(P.S. I have a 17 year old and a 16 year old who just got their licenses(?) last month and they are quite happy to be able to drive any car!)
BTW, do your kids have a car yet? Just curious. Also, seriously, do you have any other suggestions on a good used car?
No, my girls do not and will not have their own cars until they graduate college. I only got a car to USE in my senior year of high school because of the death of my grandfather, and then I had to buy it while in college from my folks. My folks didn't need the money, my dad retired at age 47 and money was not a problem for him, ever. He just wanted us to learn the value of working and buying something for yourself without it being handed to you.
The point of all this, you're on the right track now so keep going. You will definitely value the things you earn in life more than what is given!
Sorry this is so long, I don't mean to preach.
Good luck and keep us posted!
The Sandman :-)
Also, coolguyky7, my parents aren't out jobs completly. My mom just has to finish her course on real estate to get her realators license. We have a friend in the family that is a real estate broker and co-ownes our local Century 21 Real Estate place that is going to hire her once she gets her license. So we are considering that a done deal, she basically has a job, just no income right now. Also, my dad is working on his own home improvement business (he paints, pressurewashes, landscapes, and is working on becoming a home inspector). As you can tell, my family likes houses. They have passed that on to me too, I am going to be either an architect or a realator. That is both good and bad, it is good because they do spend plenty of money on a nice house to show off (we have a nice big (our first 2-story) house in the middle of the rich section of town and everyone passes by it because it is on a main street). But, at the same time, what do we have to park in front of this big pretty house; nope not Lexuses and BMWs like everyone else in our neighborhood, a Camry, an old beat up Tercel, and an ancient Chevyvan10. So, I am not sure which is better! But, most realators make lots of $$$, so that will be good. My mom is always saying how she needs to lose a little more weight because realators are supposed to dress nice and stuff; and then I tell her, well realators are supposed to drive Lexuses and other luxury cars too. That is true, she is friends with other realators and they all have a Lexus, an Acura, a M-B, or a nice little sports car. She says she does want to get the 2002 Lexus ES300 when she gets the money, so does my dad. So I have them convinced that that is the car, now one problem: getting the money!
My second car was a honda civic dx 5-speed. It was great to learn how to drive a manual transmission incase one day I had to drive one for a friend or family member....but after 2 yrs of owning that piece of crap car the clitch went out. When a clutch goes out they cost about 3-6,000 dollars to replace. Just depends on how much damage there is to the clutch unit. But its like riding a bike...once you learn you never forget.
Now on my 3rd car the 2003 s corolla I again have an automatic. I have a baby on the way so I need to pay attention to the road and flying binkis not what gear I am in. Also 5speeds suck in stop and go traffic. You are always up and down shifting and wearing out the clutch system not a good thing!
But I dont think I will ever own a clutch again. Less to worry about with automatics...less matienace and less money in the long run. And for an automatic this corolla has some pep to it! I out did a civic si that had some foreign engine getting onto the freeway that was 2 lanes and soon turned into one. That car was left in the dust. I was pretty amazed
Oh and Toyota...I dont think I knew a kid in my high school that got a new car when they turned 16. I had a really nice used car. My kids arent getting a new car either. With all the friends you pack into it...road trips....eating in the car...ect...that new car is going to look used in about 3 months. With a used you dont have to worry about such high car payments or getting it dirty. Teenagers dont appreciate a car until they have to buy it. When i bought my civic I washed it every week...and maintained it very well...same with my new corolla...with my used camry at first I kept it clean and then eh it was a car...I had better things to do with my time. Just be glad you are getting a car!!!!!
IF you use the clutch/transmission properly, it will be much less maintenance in the long run. My old '89 had 140k miles on the original clutch (it still was fine when I sold it), and I changed the transmission fluid once (at 85k miles). This car was about 65% city miles. Automatics generally should have trans fluid changed every 30k, and even then they are more trouble-prone. But Toyota automatics are generally VERY reliable (just like the rest of the car.) Even if you wear out a clutch it will be around $600 to replace.
For me, I'd much rather have a stick, because it just is more fun to drive, even in traffic. Granted, in REALLY heavy stop and go traffic, it can get tiring, but for the times I'm not in bad traffic, it's worth it.
Make sure if you go with a stick that you are driving it properly. One person I know complained that her clutch died after 50k miles and she swore she was using the clutch properly. Guess what, I rode with her one day and she wasn't - constantly slipped the clutch, among other sins. A manual will be the most reliable if driven properly.
And I don't have to think about what gear to be in, etc. Yes, some people hate sticks, you just have to find out for yourself.
Resale value - sticks less, but they are about $900 cheaper new, which makes auto and stick about the same in the long run. It took a little longer to sell my old '89, because many people wanted it until they found out it was stick. I sold it to the highest offer (I had 2 offers in two weeks).
When a lady was looking at it when I was at the store one day, she liked it until she noticed it was stick. I convinced her to learn, and she said ok - if I taught her! I said okay, but only after she bought it. Well, she had her mechanic check out the car (she paid me $30 to drive it to and from her mechanic), then made me a great offer! I accepted, knowing I would have to spend the time teaching her, but it was still a great deal for me. Well, it wasn't a pleasant experience for my good old car (jerking, stalling, grinding, etc.), but it was her car. I wonder what happened to her and the car??
you save C$1000 by buying stick. in our case, i used that money for undercoat, alarm, insurance. etc. yes, it can be a pain driving a stick in stop/go traffic but i personally believe it's just a matter of getting used to it. i like driving stick so it doesn't make any difference whether stick or auto for me.
there were some instances when i wished i had ordered the auto 03' corolla but oh well... just gotta live with it and learn. same thing applies to auto tranny, there will be some instances when you wish you had a stick.
i guess bottom line would be to test drive both and see which one you like best.
Things you can do to prolong your manual tranny include not riding the clutch, hard acceleration, and slipping the clutch. I drive my car in DC traffic, about as bad as it gets. Doesn't really bother me at all, I've gotten used to it.
Re manual vs auto tranny.
The price difference is more than a few hundred dollars. It is usually $800-1,000. Take that $1,000 and invest it wisely (not stocks ;^) and it will more than double over the usefull life of the car.
The manual may be slightly more work to use, but not much. Kinda like talking is a little more work while you are walking. It just becomes second nature. I have been driving manuals for nearly 25 years and there is no effort to it at all.
The manual tranny will be more responsive.
The manual tranny will get better gas mileage.
The manual tranny will handle slightly better (because it loses about 80 lbs from the nose)
A manual that is not abused will not wear out for a very long time. I have never even replaced a clutch, and this includes a half dozen vehicles that have had close to 200,000 miles. My father had a Corolla with 220,000 miles on the original clutch (the clutch was still fine, but the timing belt broke). Use a clutch properly and it won't let you down.
A manual is better in the snow - more control, and easier to rock if you get stuck.
A manual can be push started if your battery dies.
A manual is more fun.
A manual is proactive not reactive - it is in the exact gear you want exactly when you want it there. An automatic takes its best guess.
A manual is not sequential - can shift from 5th right to third.
A manual means people will be less likely to borrow your car, and also less likely to steal it.
If a manual has so many advantages, they why do so many people buy automatics? One reason is more profit for the dealer as it is more expensive and there is more margin. More likely though it is the same reason we will look for the remote for 10 minutes before we would get up to change the channel, or would drive 20 minutes in traffic each way to use the treadmill at the health club instead of just going for a 40 minute run. Is it any wonder we are getting so waistline challenged as a nation.
Automatics have their place, especially for the elderly and handicapped, but a young person learning to drive should take advantage of all of the benefits of a manual. And just think of the killer stereo you could buy with the money you save.
Also, Corolla_grl, I am not like most teens. I won't be carrying too many people in my car (to be blunt, I am soft-spoken and don't have a ton of friends), and my number two rule for passengers in my car will be NO EATTING! (number one rule will be buckle up and shut up!) Sorry, I am not a mean person, I just want to pamper my car! BTW, what year was your Camry? I am most likely going to be learning on a 1997 Camry for a few months when I get my learner's permit.
As far as flushing every 2 yrs...I never did that on my toyota camry and it lasted 10 yrs with about 114,000 or so miles on it. All i ever did was change the oil, tires, brakes, and one hose that cracked. I never raced my honda and I drove the clutch gently and it still went out.
I'd rather only have to go in for a 30-60 min job of flushing fluids than a 2-4 day leave my car in the shop so the clutch can be fixed.
And about the whole stealing the car thing if its an automatic...then why is the honda civic manual the top 3rd stollen car in the US??? With the Honda Accord manual the top stollen car. People could care less what type it is...all the car about it after market (black market) sales to make a profit off of your lost car. Car theived can drive any type of car...manual or auto.
Toyotaboy...Mine was an 89 camry xle (it had all the goodies including lumbar seats which I wish came standard). Great car...roomy....no maintenace problems.
Went back to stick in a 92 Sentra for price, and got caught up with it again after a short relearning period. Had several sticks since then both Mazda and Saturn.
Test drove the 03 Corolla CE with both stick and auto. Stick had a lot more pep especially if you used the A/C. Really enjoyed the positive feel of the tranny and made sure I got the stick in mine even though it needed to come from the factory.
Really enjoy the great city mileage and, as stated by others, the saving on stick vs auto more than covers a clutch. I drive conservatively, so anticipate long service w/o clutch replacement.
___In regards to purchasing an Auto or Manual, make sure you understand that when or if you try to sell your vehicle, only ~ 10 – 15% of the population even knows how to drive a manual and the numbers are shrinking. You get more out of the hole punch, cheaper up front costs, and lower maintenance/slightly higher mileage if you have any maintenance at all but is it worth it? Do you really need more out of the hole punch or should you consider a more powerful vehicle? The 03 Corolla w/ Automatic is a snappy vehicle when you step on the gas so if you are always driving with the accelerator to the floor, you might as well get a manual since your vehicle won’t last 3 years anyway
___As for reliability of an Auto, I achieved 162,000 miles on a Mercury Sable LS (long gone) and currently have 167,000 on a Toyota Previa LE – both with Auto and no transmission problems on either whatsoever. Both were purchased new. It is during the final sale that you may just wish you had that automatic the whole time. That and the tens to hundreds of thousands of shifts you will have performed w/ the manual vs. the hundreds to thousands for the auto.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
On the other hand, Toyota and Honda both make great stick-shifts, and sticks are GENERALLY more reliable. Maybe one in a million sticks would have a bad clutch, but as I said in post #2168 "One person I know complained that her Toyota Tercel's clutch died after 50k miles and she swore she was using the clutch properly. Guess what, I rode with her one day and she wasn't - constantly slipped the clutch, among other sins." And she never raced it and thought she was gentle with the clutch! The point is, I still just like driving stick better than auto, and but my wife HATES stick. Just find out what YOU like and buy it. As Corollagrl said, the overall cost can be about the same.
If you go with an auto, I would change the fluid every 30k miles to be safe. (slightly increasing the cost of owning an automatic, but not by enough to worry about.)
If you go with a stick, MAKE SURE you are driving it properly!! Have someone show you that has put at least 120k + miles on their original clutch, and have them ride with you after a month to be sure you are still driving it properly.
Also, what about stereo systems: Does the Corolla have a good stereo? A good bass? What about the Matrix?
Please drop me an e-mail at your earliest convenience: pat@edmunds.com.
Thanks!
Pat
Sedans Host
Thanks for help.
i dont think it makes much difference to wax it right away or not but it certainly won't hurt if you do wax the car right away.
If you don't own the car, any Toyota parts dept will be more than happy to look it up for you, I'm sure.
The Sandman :-)
The Sandman :-)