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Audi A6

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Comments

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I have lived in Cincinnati since 1975. Until April of this year my answer to your question allart would have been yes with no qualifications. My wife, who works in Norhtern KY and who must drive into downtown Cinti on a regular basis on business says that she has been advised to park in "garages" on or above the second floor.

    She has been advised to do this by at least two of her "business" partner companies in the downtown area.

    Additionally, I own a building in Blue Ash (northern suburb of Cinti) which I am trying to rent -- our realtors said that later this year we will see "flight" from downtown to areas such as Blue Ash as leases in downtown properties come up for renewal.

    Based on the above data, I would say I like downtown Cincinnati -- quite a lot actually -- but that I would probably park either in an above ground garage or even underground in the Fountain Square "public parking," rather than in an open air area where anyone can walk up to the car (and possibly do mischief). On the other hand, if the parking lot is supervised, I would park there without hesitation -- my only reservation is the totally unattended lots where you just put your money in a slot.

    Now nighttime is another matter entirely (at least in the Over the Rhine area).

    I don't know about being Ralph's secret weapon, he is just a really good person, high integrity, etc. who happens to sell a great product. He makes the business of car shopping and ownership a joy -- my only problem with him is his age, I am concerned that he might consider retirement (I assume he is over 65). Having someone who sells cars (and between my wife, my company and me, we have purchased over two dozen cars from the same dealership) that you trust and actually like is, IMO, a rare and precious "experience."

    I do endorse Ralph completely and with out reservation, nevertheless.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    JK -- so you met Ralph, have I steered you wrong? Does he live up to my "billing" of him?

    Allart -- on tires: the plus sizing I mentioned for my A6 4.2 (standard tires 255 x 40 x 17) to 255x35x18, based on your explanation (thanks BTW), provides no greater or better "footprint" -- correct? I came to the conclusion that a wider tire, all other things "being equal" (which they rarely are) is generally a good thing (example my A8 going from 225 x 55 x 17 to a 245 x 50 x 17). Based on your more technical knowlege of tires, aspect ratios and footprints, two questions: was the "Plus zero sizing on the A8 really a good thing as I think it was and is it really not a good thing to "Plus one size" the A6 since the tread width remains 255, even though the aspect ratio goes from 40 to 35 (which I assumed means somewhat greater risk of road hazard issues, e.g. potholes?)

    Thanks for your answers JK and allart.
  • lisamplslisampls Member Posts: 20
    Thanks guys for the tips on Lexol and Zaino. Now that that's taken care of, what do you use on the dashboard? The only thing I have in my car cleaning cupboard for interiors (not for the leather) is Armorall, which I attempted to use and it was very streaky. I stopped and just wiped it down with a damp cloth instead. Any suggestions there?
    Thanks in advance!
    Lisa
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    There is an Armorall cleaner and low luster protectant (2 products) that I have used in the past. I haven't used it for a couple of years, perhaps there are better products now -- do not use this stuff on seats, however -- and it is not the same stuff as you put on your tires either. FYI
  • lostwageslostwages Member Posts: 21
    I would like to hear opinions regarding the 1998 A6. I test drove 2 over the weekend (one w/ 27,000 miles and one w/ 37,000 - both Audi Certified). Both were priced at $28,000. I have not owned an Audi before. The 37,000 mile car had "every option" as far as I could tell. The 27,000 mile car did not have the Bose stereo or CD changer.

    As I don't live near an Audi dealer (only one in the Portland, OR area) - I am hopeful that I would not have to visit them frequently. Please advise me on the reliability of the 1998 model as well as any areas of concern or great joy that this car entails.

    Final decision - go w/ dark green (metallic) w/ 27,000 miles and no Bose or CD or dark red w/ 37,000 miles loaded?????

    The other car that I am considering is a 2002 Acura TL-S. I have also played with the idea of a used A8 (saw a great price on a 1999 A8 w/ 18,000 miles - but the price was quite a bit higher than what I have been considering). Any personal experiences or opinions regarding these vehicles would be greatly appreciated as well!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I read a review of the 2002 A6's yesterday -- and in the article was a "pre-announcement" of the "all-new" A6 that is coming in 2003 (as a 2003 or 2004 the article did not say). After reading the article, I am getting a bit of a case of Audi Envy for those few of you on this forum who have placed orders for 2002's (especially 2.7T's with the sport package). The handling and ride equation on these new A6's is apparently a significant step forward over the current model A6's (especially the 2.8's). The new 3.0 engine was also lauded as was the TD engines offered in other (non-North American) markets.

    On a related note:

    Ralph at Northland told me that while Audi chose NOT to go to a DVD nav system that all nav (2002) customers will get ALL available CD/Maps rather than just one (as my wife and I received as part of our 2001 sat/nav options). While not as good as one DVD, this is a big cost item that, even if you would not use it much, you don't have to pay any upcharge for. Also, the Audi Telematics (not available on the first US shipments) sounds like a pretty cool fun and safety feature -- based on GM's ON*STAR and integrated with an available "factory" phone with voice command, the GPS and the entertainment system (apparently available in base and deluxe form -- base being like GM's advertised On Star offering). Upgraded and uprated brakes, standard ESP+brake assist across the entire line, lower unsprung weight on the front end, all moving the A6 a step closer to (but still not as good as) the coveted BMW chassis dynamics.

    What is this, you concede the BMW is better balanced? You bet, but that one area of superiority does not mean I think the Bimmer (5 series) trumps the Audi (A6 series) -- especially the 2.7T and 4.2 models (dollar for dollar, feature for feature, performace (overall) vs performance (overall) -- the Audi still remains my choice and for many of us in this forum, the best choice).

    And, the new new A6 (2003 calendar year) will, supposedly, move the chassis dynamics meter even more toward that coveted "balanced" rating that Bimmer-files love to shove in our faces.

    Competition keeps imrpoving these things -- my "tired" old (11,000 miles) 2001 A6 4.2 is starting to have a (as in one) crow's foot. So many Audi's, so little time (and money). . . .

    What a world, what a world.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I would not get either of these A6's -- because they are, IMO, underpowered, no other "hidden" or nasty or negative reasons. And, since you are undoubtedly buying rather than leasing, the money meter indicates that (see below):

    - - - - - - - Personally, I would lease a new Audi A4 -- loaded -- at this price point. A 39 month (maximum) lease on the 2002 A4 will probably cost less than a 39 month finance of the used A6. - - - - - - - -

    See your dealer for details on the cars, see your financing institution (and compare with Audi Financial) for details on the money. And, unless you are a rich person, don't pay cash for the car -- unless you plan to keep it "until the wheels turn square." Of course, if you are really really going to pile on the miles, I would POSSIBLY consider the lowest milage used A6, but if I needed to put miles on like there was no tomorrow, I would probably still strongly consider a brand new 2002 A4 (1.8T or 3.0) quattro (and consider the +25,000 (for a total of 75,000 miles on the "no surprise meter") mile full warranty that most dealers sell).

    One man's opinion.
  • mariobgoodemariobgoode Member Posts: 114
    Mark, what magazine did you find the review of the new A6 in? You forgot to mention it, and I can't go to the dealer for my order until I read that article. Would probably go for the 3.0 rather than the 2.7T, if it is also available with a 6-speed. Thanks in advance. Bye. mario
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The 3.0 will not have a 6 speed manual, nor any manual at all in the US (at this point). Only the 2.7T will have the 6 spd at this time.
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    I think the manual suggests just using a damp cloth and that's what I use along with the California Dash Duster. I have found that a damp cloth will remove foot smudges, etc. from vinyl surfaces just fine. The dash duster does a a good job on routine dusting. I actually use a feather duster on the radio, vents, etc. Works well. The vinyl in the A6 is the highest quality I've seen AND seems really tough. I'm reluctant to put any dressing on it and risk gumming it up.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    Made by the same people as Lexol, won't leave your dash all shiny.
  • rodneybarrettrodneybarrett Member Posts: 5
    I need some advice. I have a chance to either buy a 1998 Audi A6 (not quattro), it has 27K miles on it and is certified to 75K / 5 years. price $24K. It is in great condition.

    or ...

    I could do the new lease thing and get a 2001 Audi A6 quattro for about $10 a month more than my payment would be on the abvoce car.

    My problem is I have a 1999 328i that I will need to do something with. Obviously, if I lease, I won't get the tax credit from trading the car in.

    I am about break even on the car (or maybe have a little equity).

    Which way should I go?
  • jkendalljkendall Member Posts: 30
    Rodney:

    Generally I like to own my vehicles, but your situation seems so easy, that I wouldn't hesitate to lease the 2001. The lease rate currently is shockingly low, and won't be so when the 2002's
    come out. So... ENJOY!

    jk
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Rodney,

    I agree completely with JK -- the lease on the brand new car is almost impossible to beat, and the car you will have will be significantly "better."
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Pages 30/31Car Magazine (UK), July 2001 issue. Overall very positive and extremely positive about the new 2002 A4 as well.
  • jkendalljkendall Member Posts: 30
    One other thing I thought about was if you're upside down or almost in your Bimmer, while you're leasing the 2001, put some money aside in a money market account, so you can have the option of buying next time... i.e., more flexibility. (Does require a little discipline, but can be done)

    jk
  • lostwageslostwages Member Posts: 21
    There has been a lot of posts about the great lease rates being offered now. Is this in reference to the 2.8 only? or is the 2.7T being offered with good deals?

    I like the 2.8, but feel that it is underpowered (which has been the opinion of many here) and would love to consider a 2.7T, but thought that it was out of my range.

    Does anyone have any details on a 2.7T lease? Let me know! By the way - heading to Vegas this weekend - If everything goes well - I will buy a 2.7T for cash next week - if not I will drive my beater into the ground for another couple of years!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The 2.7T WAS avail for a super low rate -- don't know if that is still the case -- I'll do some digging and report, if someone doesn't beat me to the punch.

    In any case there are some really great deals on ALL Audis right now, between AFS subsidies, discounts and "packages," it is hard to get any Audi for anything less than a good deal, and it is possible to get many of them as a GREAT deal (the S4's when you can find them may be the exceptions as well as the S8's -- but these are pretty rare).
  • jkendalljkendall Member Posts: 30
    Careful out there!! They didn't build those big hotels from 'winners'. The rate I was quoted on July 4 was .00077, which comes out to less than 2% if I'm not mistaken.

    jk
  • rodneybarrettrodneybarrett Member Posts: 5
    Thanks guys for the input.

    The lease deal is for one of their cars listed in the $38,500 range (pretty fair amount of options).
    the lease goes like this.

    $1550
    $469 + plus
    12K / year
    39 month lease

    They told me it was around a 3% apr (money factor wise).

    Does this sound about right?
  • dwpcdwpc Member Posts: 159
    I found that tucking one of those Swiffet wipes in the door pocket and using it frequently is both easy and very effective for keeping the interior virtually spotless.
  • lisamplslisampls Member Posts: 20
    Thanks everyone for your great advice on the care of the dash...I too agree that this is the best quality vinyl I've ever seen and I don't want to wreck it!

    Lostwages...As far as the lease on the A6 goes, I just picked up my A6 2.7T last Tuesday and they are carrying over the June special into July. I think they really want to move out the 2001's.
    My rate is about $580/mo and that's for 15,000 miles/year and with only $2200 down.
    The 12,000 mile/yr lease was $499 and the 2.8 lease was only $439.
    Check it out, I would bet they would still honor those rates if they still have some 2001's on the floor.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Not only are there good or great lease rates, there are even ON TOP OF THIS some very attractive discounts -- on ALL A6's and even allroads. I could probably get my car TODAY for hundreds less per month -- the fate of the early adopter.

    Maybe next time, I'll buy in the last 90 days of the model year -- maybe, but then I would probably have NEW MODEL YEAR envy which would be a bad thing. But the lease rates on a 2001 loaded 2.7T are approaching incredible. In spite of brisk sales, you can -- even in this marketplace -- smell the near-recession.
  • jackbaronejackbarone Member Posts: 6
    Hello all. I'm in the process of negotiating a lease on the 2.7T. All of the above is in line as far as the pricing I'm getting. I'm not putting any money down, my current quote is $619 - I told my salesman I wanted to pay less than $600 - I think he can do it since he gave me the famous "if I can get you that price will you do it today" line.

    Anyway, my question is can anyone can give me a ball park of what the cost of insurance is for this vehicle? Thanks!
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    I think the only way you can really know is to call your present ins. co for a quote. They'll do it for free. Much better to know up front than to get a nasty surprise after the fact.
  • mbaudibest1mbaudibest1 Member Posts: 25
    anyone have any clue as to why the A6 is on the IIHS top 10 stolen car list? it carries the highest payment out of all the cars, something like $22,000. even more than the 7 series and GS series. what anti theft devices, if any, were introduced to make it less of a target?
  • nszabonszabo Member Posts: 19
    The new 2002 A6 may be quieter but the human ear can't distinguish between 2db,so their is no difference in sound reduction.
  • automophileautomophile Member Posts: 780
    1) DASH - Vinylex is good, but I have been using Lemon Pledge (don't laugh!) on my cars' interiors for at least 20 years with great results. It is excellent on wood, plastic, vinyl, chrome and even leather (between Lexol treatments). It gives a nice sheen without being shiny, is self-cleaning, won't build up and is not sticky. Plus it has a nice fragrance for a while. You must try it. Spray a little on a soft cloth, rub on, then turn the cloth over and buff. It is really great!

    2) LEASE RATES - I ALMOST bought a 2.7T end of last month.The lease rates were incredibly low, even for the 4.2! Now that the end of the quarter has passed, the money factor (interest rate) is up again. End of September, they will probably be running the special again on the '01s, but stock should be low by that time.

    3) SOUND - nszabo is right - 2dB is the minimum difference that is detectable by the human ear, it probably doesn't matter. 6dB would be terrific (it is a logarithmic scale).
  • rambo7rambo7 Member Posts: 4
    I leased an '01 2.7T about a month ago. It stickered at about $45K and the "selling" price was about $42K...the money factor was the real deal closer -- it was equivalent to a 1.9% finance rate....

    Your deal sounds pretty darn good, given that the factory special I got seems to have expired for now.

    I got the sense from talking with the sales staff that Audi is offering these deals to get a bigger share of market... compete with the bimmers. Get us hooked now and get us on the comeback.

    I had really wanted a 330ci, but the sales people wouldn't budge much on prices. I think I'm happier with the 2.7T...it's a bit bigger and just as quick. I'm just old enough and big enough to not like having to practice Yoga positions getting in and out of BMW's.

    Plus, there's so many bimmers in So Cal, they seem like taxis in Manhattan.
  • halwidlanskyhalwidlansky Member Posts: 2
    The current lease specials ARE incredible. I just picked up my new A6 last night. THe current deal for a 2.7T is:
    $499 per month, 10k miles per year, no deposit, no acquisition fee. Ths is based on a car with MSRP of $43k. The money factor is 0.00122, which works out to 2.9% APR.

    I got a slightly better deal as a "loyalty program" customer, as my other car is an A4. If you're currently leasing or own an Audi, AFS sweetens the deal by making your first payment at the time of signing.

    My car has a sticker of $46.5K (selling price was just under $43k) and with $1500 down, I got the payment to $520 + tax. It took some pushing, and I saw the "final offer" more than once, but I got what I wanted. :-)
  • lease888lease888 Member Posts: 1
    I got my A6 2.7 just before the end of June.
    I got the Preferred luxury package, Bose,
    and Cold Weather package, Premium package
    with PPL, 12k miles a year. The MSRP was
    about $45k. The lease was based on $41k.
    It was 0 down (I had to paid about $600 for
    license and registration), $520 (+taxes) a
    month for 39 months. I think it was a pretty
    good deal.
  • varigvarig Member Posts: 99
    I have been considering buying an MB E320 4Matic. However, it appears as if I could get a good deal on an A6. Obviously savings would be more on a 2.8 than on a 2.7T, but even it would be several thousand less than the MB. I like that MB offers teleaid and I understand that Audi will be offering OnStar soon, but not until the next model. I don't think that the dealers would make any price concessions on those autos compared to the 2001s still on the lot. Is the 2002 worth waiting for? Is quattro superior to 4Matic????
    Any comments you have would be appreciated.
  • halwidlanskyhalwidlansky Member Posts: 2
    The 2.8 lease packages are similar to the 2.7T. I've seen the rates at $399-$429 per month, with 0 acquisition, 0 deposit, 10k miles per year. That package is based on a MSRP of around $38K and it doesn't have quattro. It's front wheel drive. To me, the 2.7T seemed like a better deal (at $499), as it included the same equipment, quattro and the biturbo.
  • traderalex1traderalex1 Member Posts: 39
    I have a 2000 A6 Avant without Xenon. There are a number of bulbs out there are on the market that claim to be Xenon-like and yield Xenon benefits, without the added Xenon hardware. Do any of these bulbs actually yield meaningful improvement over the stock Audi OEM halogen bulbs?
    And can any of them wreck the lamp housings through overheating? Thanks.
  • tony107tony107 Member Posts: 15
    Is it true that audi's a6 tiptronic is basically useless. I have heard that it even shifts for you if you don't and you can't even shift to first gear. Is it really true??? and if it is, is there any way to modify it to work like BMW's tiptronic?
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    I have also heard that about the A6 Tips, but am not sure if it affects all year's/models. As I recall reading if will shift from first to second on its own under hard acceleration, and I think I also remember reading that you cannot downshift into first. On both my A4 2.8 and allroad, which of course is A6-based - the tip does NOT do that - the driver retains full control.
  • chicago27t1chicago27t1 Member Posts: 24
    Last Saturday, I left the dealership with my third consecutive Audi (a loaded A6 2.7T) and second consecutive leased Audi.

    I leased a loaded (premium, luxury and cold weather packages and bose) with 12k miles/year for $1000 down and $540/month for 48 months. 48 months? Take a look at the Audi warantee. The warantee covers everything, and extending the term reduced the payment by about $40/month. (FYI: In Illinois, they have a stupid law that says you have to pay sales tax on the full purchase price of a leased car -- adding about $3000 to my total cost).

    The salesmen don't like the 48 month term because they don't understand it. For that matter, they generally don't understand leasing.

    There is a general formula for calculating a lease price:
    Monthly payment = Depreciation + Finance Charge

    Depreciation = (Sales Price - Residual)/Term

    Finance Charge = (Sales Price + Residual) * Money Factor

    FYI: If you multiply the money factor by 24, you'll get your interest rate (APR).

    Of the above variable, the only ones you can control are the purchase price and the term.

    By understanding the above formula, I was able to control negotiations just as I would for a car sale. I got my car for 2.25% over invoice. This, by the way, was a better deal than what Audi was offering in their ads. Audi is offering lease deals as the result of a reduced money factor. You, however, can still negotiate that purchase price.

    In my situation, I sat down with the sales mgr and my salesman, and asked them if they knew how to calculate a lease payment by hand. They said "no," so I showed them. "You see, this is how your payment works out. By my calculations, the deal you're offering me amounts to 5% over invoice, which is of course too much." I'll give you 2% over invoice which, as you can see, means that the payment will drop by $34/month." In the end, we settled at 2.25%.

    YOU NEED TO CONTROL THE NEGOTIATIONS! FEEL FREE TO IMPROVE ON AUDI'S ADVERTISED DEAL...ESPECIALLY IF THERE ARE OTHER DEALERS IN TOWN.

    Regarding Insurance.

    Previous Audi was an A4 2.8. My Insurance came to about $685 per year. Insurance on the A6 went up to $910.
  • chicago27t1chicago27t1 Member Posts: 24
    1. Sorry for the really long message. I just wanted to make sure you all realize that negotiating a lease is no different from negotiating a purchase.

    2. If my lease deal seems rather high, keep in mind that (as I said), Illinois folks get hit for tax on the full price of the car -- including luxury tax. That can add another $70/month to the payment.

    3. Love my A6 2.7T. Earlier today, I dusted a BMW 540 off a stop light. I'll happily take on any member of the BMW family whose name does not start with an M (or cost more than $100K). The 2.7T is also slightly faster off the line than the 4.2 because of all that low-end torque (258 lbs at 1800 rpm).
  • chicago27t1chicago27t1 Member Posts: 24
    Useless?

    I use the Tiptronic on my A6 2.7T similarly to the way I used the stick on my previous A4 2.8.

    Automatic is nice, but I'm able to get a much more satisfying response with the Tip.
  • akuma1akuma1 Member Posts: 37
    Hi we're considering the 2.7T because we looked at the invoice price vs MSRP and noticed an unusual gap. So we figured we can probably get a lot off if we buy the an in stock 2001. Now I'm hearing leasing is a great deal but I have no idea how money factor etc. works. Can anyone help? Is finance a bad idea?
  • fencefence Member Posts: 15
    Hi All,
    First time poster. I need some advice. I'm looking at either purchase a 1 year old A6 2.7T w/14k miles for about 33,500 or a brand new Passat at about 28,500. But I can't decide. 2 main criteria are I want to keep the car forever and safety. Both cars are similarly equipped except the Audi has all-wheel drive. Any input would be much appreciated.
  • timcartimcar Member Posts: 363
    I have an '01 2.7T. Comparing a 2.7T to a Passat is a little like comparing Mighty Mouse to a door mouse. Aside from the fact they were both developed off the old A4 platform, they have little in common in terms of intent. The Passat is a very good mid size family sedan that does most things well. The 2.7T is one of the world's finest luxury/sport sedans. It is likely the 2.7T will cost much more over the life of the car than the Passat. It is high performance, has turbo's and is chocked full of more technology than I can remember. Oh, and it has Quattro. The Passat has plenty of goodies, but not nearly to the extent of the 2.7T. They're both safe. If you want to count air bags, I suspect the Audi has a few more. Many 2000 2.7T's are near perfect, but it seems that model year has had a few more problems than '01 on average. Unless the Luxury, performance and added room of the 2.7T speak to you, it wouldn't seem to make much sense to get it rather than the Passat. If I were to get a Passat, I'd wait for '02 model year and get the 4 year 50K warranty. If I were buying a used 2.7T, I'd get a long term warranty if I were planing on keeping it for an extened period. A new trans. on an A6 runs about $10K. Don't know what it is on a Passat.
  • rambo7rambo7 Member Posts: 4
    Which car you get sort of depends on what you want and what's important to you. I had a '98 Acura RL which was a wonderful, dependable car... but bored me to tears at the end. However, if I wanted to keep a car 10 years, it would have been a great candidate. Was in shop twice over 3 years outside of normal maintenance for little stuff.

    I leased an '01 A6 2.7T with a stick and it's a blast to drive....luxurious, sporty and fassssst.
    But if I were looking for a long term car, this thing would scare me...lots and lots of very pricey technology that could break down after warranty runs out (see timcar's note above about the transmission. YIKES!)

    If you test drive both and like to drive, you'll get a rush from the 2.7T. With a stick, it's about as quick as a Mustang GT. But if getting one used, give serious consideration to warranty extension.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Member Posts: 403
    Is you finance charge formula correct? It doesn't seem right that you would add the residual to sales price. Please explain. Thanks.
  • chicago27t1chicago27t1 Member Posts: 24
    The one error in the leasing formula I posted is that you do not use the sale price. Instead you use the Net Capital Cost, which is the sales prices minus any down payments or plus any additional money you are paying (upside down on existing loan/lease, etc.)

    Anyway, the monthly depreciation component is the money factor times the SUM of the Net Capital Cost and the Residual. I know this is not intuitive (or downright dopey), but when you lease you are causing two transactions to take place. First the car is effectively "sold," in that it is being taken off the market. The buyer is the leasing company. Then the leasing company will turn around and lease the car to you. You are paying depreciation ([Net Cap Cost - Residual]/term), but you are also holding onto the residual value of the car (the component that the lease company is not depreciating).

    Think of it this way. The lease company is lending you an asset worth about 42K, which they are paying interest on. Thus you are paying a finance charge on the net capital cost. They are lending it to you, but you are only paying depreciation on the difference between Net Cap Cost and the residual. So, they are lending you the residual value. Thus, you pay finance charge on the residual too.

    Sounds funny, but that's how it works. Try it and you'll see where the dealers are getting their numbers. The point, however, isn't whether the formula makes sense. The point is to know the formula so that you can use it to get a better deal.
  • chicago27t1chicago27t1 Member Posts: 24
    My A4 lease just came to an end and I too found myself in a situation where I was debating the difference between an A6 2.7T and a VW Passat.

    In my case, however, the choice was between leasing a 2.7T or buying a Passat. In any case, I could afford an max monthly payment of around $500. As stated in previous messages, I live in Illinois where leasing a car still means that you pay sales tax on the full price, adding about $80/month to Audi's advertised specials.

    Anyway the 2.7T is a superior car in all respects. It is also a much more expensive car that the Passat. If, however, I had been unable to get my lease below $550/month I would have bought the Passat. The ride is similar to that of the A4, but it gives you more room. My kids are a bit bigger, so I need the extra space. In my opinion, it also completely outperforms an A6 2.8. It is zippier than the A6 2.8, yet has the same extras (aside from zenon) that the A6 has (and the GLX w/ 4motion sells for about 7K less.

    I considered waiting for the new A4, but I figure that they will go for full sticker for the first 8-9 months they are out.

    Anyway, the Passat is great. I would have been very happy buying one. Fortunately, Audi's current deals allowed me to afford an A6 2.7T.

    To be honest, I would have loved to have gotten an S4 (my kids would have had to crouch a little), but the difference in money factors added another $85/month to the S4 payment. God, I loved driving the S4. But I also really do love my A6 2.7T (Light Silver/Black Interior and all options except for the sports package -- in Chicago, we have too much snow/ice/sleet for me to want to deal with performance tires).
  • chicago27t1chicago27t1 Member Posts: 24
    On my car, the invoice was 40.5K and the sticker was 45.1K. The sales price I negotiated for my lease was 41.5K.
  • chicago27t1chicago27t1 Member Posts: 24
    The Audi repair costs are the reason I lease and don't buy Audis. I only want one if I don't have to worry about anything costing me bucks outside of warranty.
  • automophileautomophile Member Posts: 780
    chicago 2.7t -

    First - Congratulations on your fantastic new car! The T is really a very special auto. Please try not to dust off too many beemers for the first 1000-1500 miles. The turbos spin up to 100,000 rpm or faster, and it is REALLY important that the bearings get broken in properly, or you are in for a lifetime of trouble. This also holds for the rest of the zillion moving parts in a modern car. Take it easy in the beginning, and you will have much better performance and gas mileage for the life of the car.

    Thanks also for trying to explain the complexities of the leasing process. Most people don't understand that a lease is essentially a long-term rental contract. You must pay for cost of the car itself, plus the depreciation on the car, that's where it gets complicated. Also, the depreciation part is based on the MSRP of the car, not the selling price. I built a leasing spreadsheet for my palmtop, and it is amazing to sit at the dealer and adjust a few factors, and realize how much difference it can make to the lease payment.

    The money factor is simply the interest they charge you, but it is calcuated differently, so they give it a different name. By the way it is 2400 x mf = interest rate, so 0.002% mf = 4.8% interest, etc.

    My advice to potential lessors is:
    1. Negotiate the price of the car in full FIRST, before you look at the payments. You might be able to do better than you thought you could on the payments. Don't even talk about what you want to pay per month.
    2. Don't add the license and registration fees into the cap cost, you will pay interest on that for the life of the lease, even though you have to pay it again every year.
    3. Lease rates can be so low, it is best that you do NOT give any down payment or "cap cost reduction". This is generally a false economy. Do a minimum "drive off" - just license fees. Yes, your payments will be a little higher, but it is 2-5% money. If you take the down and put it towards some 15-18% Credit Card debt, you will be many dollars ahead at the end of the lease.
    4. Watch your mileage - Leases are predicated on a set number of miles. If you exeed that, the penalties can be very high. On the other hand, be sure you don't agree to a 15K miles per year lease if you only drive 10K.
    5. Verify the Money Factor. I have seen cars sold at a great price, and then the dealer used a high interest rate to make the money back on the financing. My dealers have always agreed to show me what is available. If you have great credit, you should get the lowest rate available.

    Have Fun!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    A tiny, but I think siginificant, nit with the statement made by automophile. "You must pay for cost of the car itself. . .," is, based on what I have picked up over the years, NOT accurate. A lease means that you DO NOT PAY for the cost of the car itself -- you pay for the use of the car, but not the ownership of it.

    Automophile does apparently know this with his explaination that a lease is a long term rental contract -- but I thought his (or her) following comments (quoted above) needed some clarification.

    A lease can be a great way to "own" a car -- in fact, I always lease. But, for some people, they lease a car, then buy it later and I have heard them remark, that it was like "buying the car twice" (with which I disagree, but I do understand that they think that way).

    If you are going to keep a car a long time (more than 48 months, perhaps), and can either "afford" a lump sum payment or can get one of those 0.09% interest loans -- then buy it. Same comment if you are going to drive VERY high miles per year -- leasing will bite you when you exceed the 10 or 12 or 15,000 miles per year that most contracts allow.

    When I was in school (college freshman econ, I think), one of my professors told us that we Americans often did things backwards -- he said we should rent what depreciates and buy what appreciates (for personal use). His opinion was that most people would buy a car and rent their living quarters -- which he said was not a way to build wealth. I have since come to understand that his statements weren't totally applicable in every circumstance, but overall, I do believe his theory works. And with money factors and off MSRP discounts the way they are in THIS ECONOMY, leasing is all the more attractive.

    End of nit pick.
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