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Comments
She has been advised to do this by at least two of her "business" partner companies in the downtown area.
Additionally, I own a building in Blue Ash (northern suburb of Cinti) which I am trying to rent -- our realtors said that later this year we will see "flight" from downtown to areas such as Blue Ash as leases in downtown properties come up for renewal.
Based on the above data, I would say I like downtown Cincinnati -- quite a lot actually -- but that I would probably park either in an above ground garage or even underground in the Fountain Square "public parking," rather than in an open air area where anyone can walk up to the car (and possibly do mischief). On the other hand, if the parking lot is supervised, I would park there without hesitation -- my only reservation is the totally unattended lots where you just put your money in a slot.
Now nighttime is another matter entirely (at least in the Over the Rhine area).
I don't know about being Ralph's secret weapon, he is just a really good person, high integrity, etc. who happens to sell a great product. He makes the business of car shopping and ownership a joy -- my only problem with him is his age, I am concerned that he might consider retirement (I assume he is over 65). Having someone who sells cars (and between my wife, my company and me, we have purchased over two dozen cars from the same dealership) that you trust and actually like is, IMO, a rare and precious "experience."
I do endorse Ralph completely and with out reservation, nevertheless.
Allart -- on tires: the plus sizing I mentioned for my A6 4.2 (standard tires 255 x 40 x 17) to 255x35x18, based on your explanation (thanks BTW), provides no greater or better "footprint" -- correct? I came to the conclusion that a wider tire, all other things "being equal" (which they rarely are) is generally a good thing (example my A8 going from 225 x 55 x 17 to a 245 x 50 x 17). Based on your more technical knowlege of tires, aspect ratios and footprints, two questions: was the "Plus zero sizing on the A8 really a good thing as I think it was and is it really not a good thing to "Plus one size" the A6 since the tread width remains 255, even though the aspect ratio goes from 40 to 35 (which I assumed means somewhat greater risk of road hazard issues, e.g. potholes?)
Thanks for your answers JK and allart.
Thanks in advance!
Lisa
As I don't live near an Audi dealer (only one in the Portland, OR area) - I am hopeful that I would not have to visit them frequently. Please advise me on the reliability of the 1998 model as well as any areas of concern or great joy that this car entails.
Final decision - go w/ dark green (metallic) w/ 27,000 miles and no Bose or CD or dark red w/ 37,000 miles loaded?????
The other car that I am considering is a 2002 Acura TL-S. I have also played with the idea of a used A8 (saw a great price on a 1999 A8 w/ 18,000 miles - but the price was quite a bit higher than what I have been considering). Any personal experiences or opinions regarding these vehicles would be greatly appreciated as well!
On a related note:
Ralph at Northland told me that while Audi chose NOT to go to a DVD nav system that all nav (2002) customers will get ALL available CD/Maps rather than just one (as my wife and I received as part of our 2001 sat/nav options). While not as good as one DVD, this is a big cost item that, even if you would not use it much, you don't have to pay any upcharge for. Also, the Audi Telematics (not available on the first US shipments) sounds like a pretty cool fun and safety feature -- based on GM's ON*STAR and integrated with an available "factory" phone with voice command, the GPS and the entertainment system (apparently available in base and deluxe form -- base being like GM's advertised On Star offering). Upgraded and uprated brakes, standard ESP+brake assist across the entire line, lower unsprung weight on the front end, all moving the A6 a step closer to (but still not as good as) the coveted BMW chassis dynamics.
What is this, you concede the BMW is better balanced? You bet, but that one area of superiority does not mean I think the Bimmer (5 series) trumps the Audi (A6 series) -- especially the 2.7T and 4.2 models (dollar for dollar, feature for feature, performace (overall) vs performance (overall) -- the Audi still remains my choice and for many of us in this forum, the best choice).
And, the new new A6 (2003 calendar year) will, supposedly, move the chassis dynamics meter even more toward that coveted "balanced" rating that Bimmer-files love to shove in our faces.
Competition keeps imrpoving these things -- my "tired" old (11,000 miles) 2001 A6 4.2 is starting to have a (as in one) crow's foot. So many Audi's, so little time (and money). . . .
What a world, what a world.
- - - - - - - Personally, I would lease a new Audi A4 -- loaded -- at this price point. A 39 month (maximum) lease on the 2002 A4 will probably cost less than a 39 month finance of the used A6. - - - - - - - -
See your dealer for details on the cars, see your financing institution (and compare with Audi Financial) for details on the money. And, unless you are a rich person, don't pay cash for the car -- unless you plan to keep it "until the wheels turn square." Of course, if you are really really going to pile on the miles, I would POSSIBLY consider the lowest milage used A6, but if I needed to put miles on like there was no tomorrow, I would probably still strongly consider a brand new 2002 A4 (1.8T or 3.0) quattro (and consider the +25,000 (for a total of 75,000 miles on the "no surprise meter") mile full warranty that most dealers sell).
One man's opinion.
or ...
I could do the new lease thing and get a 2001 Audi A6 quattro for about $10 a month more than my payment would be on the abvoce car.
My problem is I have a 1999 328i that I will need to do something with. Obviously, if I lease, I won't get the tax credit from trading the car in.
I am about break even on the car (or maybe have a little equity).
Which way should I go?
Generally I like to own my vehicles, but your situation seems so easy, that I wouldn't hesitate to lease the 2001. The lease rate currently is shockingly low, and won't be so when the 2002's
come out. So... ENJOY!
jk
I agree completely with JK -- the lease on the brand new car is almost impossible to beat, and the car you will have will be significantly "better."
jk
I like the 2.8, but feel that it is underpowered (which has been the opinion of many here) and would love to consider a 2.7T, but thought that it was out of my range.
Does anyone have any details on a 2.7T lease? Let me know! By the way - heading to Vegas this weekend - If everything goes well - I will buy a 2.7T for cash next week - if not I will drive my beater into the ground for another couple of years!
In any case there are some really great deals on ALL Audis right now, between AFS subsidies, discounts and "packages," it is hard to get any Audi for anything less than a good deal, and it is possible to get many of them as a GREAT deal (the S4's when you can find them may be the exceptions as well as the S8's -- but these are pretty rare).
jk
The lease deal is for one of their cars listed in the $38,500 range (pretty fair amount of options).
the lease goes like this.
$1550
$469 + plus
12K / year
39 month lease
They told me it was around a 3% apr (money factor wise).
Does this sound about right?
Lostwages...As far as the lease on the A6 goes, I just picked up my A6 2.7T last Tuesday and they are carrying over the June special into July. I think they really want to move out the 2001's.
My rate is about $580/mo and that's for 15,000 miles/year and with only $2200 down.
The 12,000 mile/yr lease was $499 and the 2.8 lease was only $439.
Check it out, I would bet they would still honor those rates if they still have some 2001's on the floor.
Maybe next time, I'll buy in the last 90 days of the model year -- maybe, but then I would probably have NEW MODEL YEAR envy which would be a bad thing. But the lease rates on a 2001 loaded 2.7T are approaching incredible. In spite of brisk sales, you can -- even in this marketplace -- smell the near-recession.
Anyway, my question is can anyone can give me a ball park of what the cost of insurance is for this vehicle? Thanks!
2) LEASE RATES - I ALMOST bought a 2.7T end of last month.The lease rates were incredibly low, even for the 4.2! Now that the end of the quarter has passed, the money factor (interest rate) is up again. End of September, they will probably be running the special again on the '01s, but stock should be low by that time.
3) SOUND - nszabo is right - 2dB is the minimum difference that is detectable by the human ear, it probably doesn't matter. 6dB would be terrific (it is a logarithmic scale).
Your deal sounds pretty darn good, given that the factory special I got seems to have expired for now.
I got the sense from talking with the sales staff that Audi is offering these deals to get a bigger share of market... compete with the bimmers. Get us hooked now and get us on the comeback.
I had really wanted a 330ci, but the sales people wouldn't budge much on prices. I think I'm happier with the 2.7T...it's a bit bigger and just as quick. I'm just old enough and big enough to not like having to practice Yoga positions getting in and out of BMW's.
Plus, there's so many bimmers in So Cal, they seem like taxis in Manhattan.
$499 per month, 10k miles per year, no deposit, no acquisition fee. Ths is based on a car with MSRP of $43k. The money factor is 0.00122, which works out to 2.9% APR.
I got a slightly better deal as a "loyalty program" customer, as my other car is an A4. If you're currently leasing or own an Audi, AFS sweetens the deal by making your first payment at the time of signing.
My car has a sticker of $46.5K (selling price was just under $43k) and with $1500 down, I got the payment to $520 + tax. It took some pushing, and I saw the "final offer" more than once, but I got what I wanted. :-)
I got the Preferred luxury package, Bose,
and Cold Weather package, Premium package
with PPL, 12k miles a year. The MSRP was
about $45k. The lease was based on $41k.
It was 0 down (I had to paid about $600 for
license and registration), $520 (+taxes) a
month for 39 months. I think it was a pretty
good deal.
Any comments you have would be appreciated.
And can any of them wreck the lamp housings through overheating? Thanks.
I leased a loaded (premium, luxury and cold weather packages and bose) with 12k miles/year for $1000 down and $540/month for 48 months. 48 months? Take a look at the Audi warantee. The warantee covers everything, and extending the term reduced the payment by about $40/month. (FYI: In Illinois, they have a stupid law that says you have to pay sales tax on the full purchase price of a leased car -- adding about $3000 to my total cost).
The salesmen don't like the 48 month term because they don't understand it. For that matter, they generally don't understand leasing.
There is a general formula for calculating a lease price:
Monthly payment = Depreciation + Finance Charge
Depreciation = (Sales Price - Residual)/Term
Finance Charge = (Sales Price + Residual) * Money Factor
FYI: If you multiply the money factor by 24, you'll get your interest rate (APR).
Of the above variable, the only ones you can control are the purchase price and the term.
By understanding the above formula, I was able to control negotiations just as I would for a car sale. I got my car for 2.25% over invoice. This, by the way, was a better deal than what Audi was offering in their ads. Audi is offering lease deals as the result of a reduced money factor. You, however, can still negotiate that purchase price.
In my situation, I sat down with the sales mgr and my salesman, and asked them if they knew how to calculate a lease payment by hand. They said "no," so I showed them. "You see, this is how your payment works out. By my calculations, the deal you're offering me amounts to 5% over invoice, which is of course too much." I'll give you 2% over invoice which, as you can see, means that the payment will drop by $34/month." In the end, we settled at 2.25%.
YOU NEED TO CONTROL THE NEGOTIATIONS! FEEL FREE TO IMPROVE ON AUDI'S ADVERTISED DEAL...ESPECIALLY IF THERE ARE OTHER DEALERS IN TOWN.
Regarding Insurance.
Previous Audi was an A4 2.8. My Insurance came to about $685 per year. Insurance on the A6 went up to $910.
2. If my lease deal seems rather high, keep in mind that (as I said), Illinois folks get hit for tax on the full price of the car -- including luxury tax. That can add another $70/month to the payment.
3. Love my A6 2.7T. Earlier today, I dusted a BMW 540 off a stop light. I'll happily take on any member of the BMW family whose name does not start with an M (or cost more than $100K). The 2.7T is also slightly faster off the line than the 4.2 because of all that low-end torque (258 lbs at 1800 rpm).
I use the Tiptronic on my A6 2.7T similarly to the way I used the stick on my previous A4 2.8.
Automatic is nice, but I'm able to get a much more satisfying response with the Tip.
First time poster. I need some advice. I'm looking at either purchase a 1 year old A6 2.7T w/14k miles for about 33,500 or a brand new Passat at about 28,500. But I can't decide. 2 main criteria are I want to keep the car forever and safety. Both cars are similarly equipped except the Audi has all-wheel drive. Any input would be much appreciated.
I leased an '01 A6 2.7T with a stick and it's a blast to drive....luxurious, sporty and fassssst.
But if I were looking for a long term car, this thing would scare me...lots and lots of very pricey technology that could break down after warranty runs out (see timcar's note above about the transmission. YIKES!)
If you test drive both and like to drive, you'll get a rush from the 2.7T. With a stick, it's about as quick as a Mustang GT. But if getting one used, give serious consideration to warranty extension.
Anyway, the monthly depreciation component is the money factor times the SUM of the Net Capital Cost and the Residual. I know this is not intuitive (or downright dopey), but when you lease you are causing two transactions to take place. First the car is effectively "sold," in that it is being taken off the market. The buyer is the leasing company. Then the leasing company will turn around and lease the car to you. You are paying depreciation ([Net Cap Cost - Residual]/term), but you are also holding onto the residual value of the car (the component that the lease company is not depreciating).
Think of it this way. The lease company is lending you an asset worth about 42K, which they are paying interest on. Thus you are paying a finance charge on the net capital cost. They are lending it to you, but you are only paying depreciation on the difference between Net Cap Cost and the residual. So, they are lending you the residual value. Thus, you pay finance charge on the residual too.
Sounds funny, but that's how it works. Try it and you'll see where the dealers are getting their numbers. The point, however, isn't whether the formula makes sense. The point is to know the formula so that you can use it to get a better deal.
In my case, however, the choice was between leasing a 2.7T or buying a Passat. In any case, I could afford an max monthly payment of around $500. As stated in previous messages, I live in Illinois where leasing a car still means that you pay sales tax on the full price, adding about $80/month to Audi's advertised specials.
Anyway the 2.7T is a superior car in all respects. It is also a much more expensive car that the Passat. If, however, I had been unable to get my lease below $550/month I would have bought the Passat. The ride is similar to that of the A4, but it gives you more room. My kids are a bit bigger, so I need the extra space. In my opinion, it also completely outperforms an A6 2.8. It is zippier than the A6 2.8, yet has the same extras (aside from zenon) that the A6 has (and the GLX w/ 4motion sells for about 7K less.
I considered waiting for the new A4, but I figure that they will go for full sticker for the first 8-9 months they are out.
Anyway, the Passat is great. I would have been very happy buying one. Fortunately, Audi's current deals allowed me to afford an A6 2.7T.
To be honest, I would have loved to have gotten an S4 (my kids would have had to crouch a little), but the difference in money factors added another $85/month to the S4 payment. God, I loved driving the S4. But I also really do love my A6 2.7T (Light Silver/Black Interior and all options except for the sports package -- in Chicago, we have too much snow/ice/sleet for me to want to deal with performance tires).
First - Congratulations on your fantastic new car! The T is really a very special auto. Please try not to dust off too many beemers for the first 1000-1500 miles. The turbos spin up to 100,000 rpm or faster, and it is REALLY important that the bearings get broken in properly, or you are in for a lifetime of trouble. This also holds for the rest of the zillion moving parts in a modern car. Take it easy in the beginning, and you will have much better performance and gas mileage for the life of the car.
Thanks also for trying to explain the complexities of the leasing process. Most people don't understand that a lease is essentially a long-term rental contract. You must pay for cost of the car itself, plus the depreciation on the car, that's where it gets complicated. Also, the depreciation part is based on the MSRP of the car, not the selling price. I built a leasing spreadsheet for my palmtop, and it is amazing to sit at the dealer and adjust a few factors, and realize how much difference it can make to the lease payment.
The money factor is simply the interest they charge you, but it is calcuated differently, so they give it a different name. By the way it is 2400 x mf = interest rate, so 0.002% mf = 4.8% interest, etc.
My advice to potential lessors is:
1. Negotiate the price of the car in full FIRST, before you look at the payments. You might be able to do better than you thought you could on the payments. Don't even talk about what you want to pay per month.
2. Don't add the license and registration fees into the cap cost, you will pay interest on that for the life of the lease, even though you have to pay it again every year.
3. Lease rates can be so low, it is best that you do NOT give any down payment or "cap cost reduction". This is generally a false economy. Do a minimum "drive off" - just license fees. Yes, your payments will be a little higher, but it is 2-5% money. If you take the down and put it towards some 15-18% Credit Card debt, you will be many dollars ahead at the end of the lease.
4. Watch your mileage - Leases are predicated on a set number of miles. If you exeed that, the penalties can be very high. On the other hand, be sure you don't agree to a 15K miles per year lease if you only drive 10K.
5. Verify the Money Factor. I have seen cars sold at a great price, and then the dealer used a high interest rate to make the money back on the financing. My dealers have always agreed to show me what is available. If you have great credit, you should get the lowest rate available.
Have Fun!
Automophile does apparently know this with his explaination that a lease is a long term rental contract -- but I thought his (or her) following comments (quoted above) needed some clarification.
A lease can be a great way to "own" a car -- in fact, I always lease. But, for some people, they lease a car, then buy it later and I have heard them remark, that it was like "buying the car twice" (with which I disagree, but I do understand that they think that way).
If you are going to keep a car a long time (more than 48 months, perhaps), and can either "afford" a lump sum payment or can get one of those 0.09% interest loans -- then buy it. Same comment if you are going to drive VERY high miles per year -- leasing will bite you when you exceed the 10 or 12 or 15,000 miles per year that most contracts allow.
When I was in school (college freshman econ, I think), one of my professors told us that we Americans often did things backwards -- he said we should rent what depreciates and buy what appreciates (for personal use). His opinion was that most people would buy a car and rent their living quarters -- which he said was not a way to build wealth. I have since come to understand that his statements weren't totally applicable in every circumstance, but overall, I do believe his theory works. And with money factors and off MSRP discounts the way they are in THIS ECONOMY, leasing is all the more attractive.
End of nit pick.