I'm getting to the point that I need to change the timing belt on my '97. I been hearing stories from dealers of replacement intervals from 65k up to 100k. Also, haven't got the shop manual out but is it a dual belt or single? Comments?
I recently purchased a 1995 XLS which had about 68200 on it. The car had no problems with it.
However, I did have to replace the front brake pads (at least this is what the man at Pep Boys told me) for the car to pass inspection. I did did this and the front brakes are squeaking now. Is this normal?
Also, not too far after I replaced those brake pads, I accidently hit a curb when I was making a slow left turn to exit a parking lot (the right side wheel went over the small curb).
Since that point, I have been hearing a squeaking noise which I think is coming from the right side wheel area. Furthermore, today I have noticed that the squeaking sound is present when the car is coasting (no braking and no accelerating).
Is it possible that I "damaged" something when I hit this curb, and should I be running to the dealer?
We have been looking at new cars, from the Avalon up to other cars priced up to the low $40k. The Avalon had many features and advantages that would have convinced us to buy it except for one. The Avalon XLS that we test drove had bucket seats, and we found them to be hard, not firm but hard, like sitting on a metal seat with piece of leather over it. I was wondering if it just happened to be the car we test drove, or it this is the nature of the Avalon?
I found the same thing. Once I pushed the driver's lumbar support all the way forward it was better. My wife wouldn't ride in it so I'm not sure how good the passenger side is. Is does ride nice though.
Dealer said that it was working as designed. He claimed they checked it and said the heat came out down there. I asked him what were the design parameters they checked. He said the tempeture was suppossed to be 120 degrees. I don't believe they measured this because there is no way it reaches that temperature. I will try a different dealer and/or will use my own thermometer. Any advice Cliffy?
go ahead and buy the 95 one-owner Avalon. What a great car. I've been driving mine for 7 years and I'm about to turn it over to my teenagers and go buy another one. I've had a few of the problems I see mentioned on this site: loose hinge screw in the passenger front door, squeaky brakes from time to time,but the reliability has been reassuring.
The noise you are hearing is most likely your strut top. I just had mine replaced on my '98 with 45K. The manager at the service department knew what the problem was without even looking at the car. Apparently it's pretty common.
I am definitely going to purchase an Avalon XLS in the May time frame. Does anyone know if the 2002 models will be available then. I live in Southern Ca. area (Banning CA) which is the best route to take for a good deal buying on the Internet or going through a dealer. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks Stewart
The 2002 will be out in August. Send an e-mail to Dianne Whitmire at Carson Toyota. In California, you would be hard pressed to find a better deal or a more honest person to deal with. She is very active here on the TH and can be reached at dianne@earthlink.net.
As an owner of a 2001 XLS I am somewhat amazed at many of the comments. This automobile definitely has a steering problem, maybe minor. There are body noises which should not be there. Many of the vehicles have a paint chipping (flaking) problem. The drivers seat appears to exhibit a comfort problem. Etc., Etc. Yet, over and over again I read--But "Quality does not come cheap". This vehicle is not a quality' product. I am not saying it is poor, but to judge it as a quality product is ridiculous. Toyota is, unfortunately, becoming more and more American every year. For example, in the 01" XLS they omitted the Coin Holder. Now, while minor, how cheap is this and is it not a typical American Manufacturing gimmick. The other thing I find quite different from the late 80'/early 90's is that then Toyota was interested in hearing from there customers. No longer is this true. Oh, they have someone at the end of a phone line who will go through the motions, but, nothing really happens. If you have owned a typical American vehicle, you will recognize this pattern. American companies over the last twenty years have tried to convince the consumer that they really care, but it is all smoke.
I have been shopping for a 2001 XLS and I am wondering what I can expect to pay over or under invoice. I have been looking at the Acura 3.2TL and can get one for about $300 over. Any similar experiences?????
I'm looking at a 2001 XLS. I live in Northern California. So far the best deal is $700 over invoice including any advertising fees. Problem is, their invoice is different from Edmunds. What goes? All I know that after a couple visits to the same dealership, the same Avalons were still there. Weak economy and all, someone has to give. I suspect we're in the best position in years to be buying a car. Any comments from anyone?
The invoice at the dealer should match to the penny what Edmunds has except for the advertising fee. That fee varies by region and you happen to be in a part of the country with the highest ad fee.
You may want to make a trip to Southern California. Dianne at Carson Toyota is honest and effecient in getting you a deal on any new Toyota. Southern CA also has a much lower advertising fee. Her e-mail is dianne@earthlink.net
Having Toyotas for 21 years,I too was going to get an Avalon until I read this site.I then started looking elsewhere.Accura,BMW,etc.I saw an ad for Hyundai,looked at them,drove one and bought one.Has everything Avalon has and then some.Only 12% American made parts.60,000/5 yr,bumper to bumper warranty,5 yr Road side/10 yr/100,000 mile,on drive train.Plus my local dealer covers ALL routine maint.for 24K/24,mos.All this for under $24,000. Leather,traction con.stanard.plus a 5 speed automatic.
I've driven both. I ended up choosing something else. I'd give the nod to the Avalon for comfort and performance but not by much in either case.
The XG300 DOES offer everything the Avalon does as far as amenities go and actually some more- he's right there. The wood is real for a start. The transmission is a 5sp tiptronic clone. Sunroof, TC etc are standard. The list price difference for a loaded XLS vs loaded XG300L is almost 10K. Unless you've driven one you should not comment but believe me the XG300 is very quiet and well made. Not quite up to the Avalon there but awful close - certainly more so than the price difference.
However where I would definitely back the Avalon is in resale value. If you drive a car for 8 yrs or more then sure you'll sell the Hyundai for less than $10K less than the Avalon - but selling it in a couple or three years will mean taking a big bath. Avalons hold resale value much better in the early years.
But if you drive a car to death ( and remember Hyundai's warranty comes into play here ) the XG300 should be a very reliable and cost effective vehicle offering great comfort and smoothness. It's not silly at all to compare the two unless you're hung up on 7-10yr old reliability ratings that were of dubious impartiality even then.
Sscond, if you can sell Hyundai for right under 10K after 8 years, sell them the bridge in NY and Sears Tower at Chicago once you at it.
Don't care how it drives, don't care if it flies. Six years ago Hyundai was a piece of junk (had a roomate who had the smaller one) and it is now. The 10 year warranty is their last attempt to make a footprint in the US market. All the South Korean Auto makers make junk and have whole bunch of problems with making progit and labor disputes.
As I said before, the reason I buy a car is to drive it, not to have it services under warranty for the next 10 years. If Toyota had a BB for a 1 year and Hyundai for 15, I would still buy Toyota.
Explain to me, if you did not buy a Hyundai or the Avalon what are you doing on this board ? Of course, unless you are the same guy from the original post ...
Any rule on who posts on these boards and what they drive ? Are you the one to enforce it ?
Please learn to read English before you rant. My comment was that if you held on to the car for a few years then the DIFFERENCE ( that's the "less than" part - it's called a comparison ) between the Avalon and the XG300 would be less than the $10K in original price difference.
So you base your estimation on six year old second hand data ?
An 8 year old Hyundai is worth $100 if it runs, no matter the miles or condition. An 8 year old Toyota that originally sold for $30K, would be worth anywhere from $3000 to $10000 depending on miles and condition. At least that has been my experience selling car and taking trades for the last 7 years.
Get used to seeing the Hyundai XG300 wherever you go. You know...the club, the links, the opera. It is not, as reviewers have mistakenly represented, aimed at V-6 Camry and Accord owners. It is aimed squarely at the Avalon, Intrigue, etc. Don't knock it if you haven't driven it. Matter of fact...don't knock ANY car you nothing about. You sound very much like my Uncles of yore who used to laugh at the 'tinny little [non-permissible content removed] cars' while they cruised around in their Buicks, Caddys, etc. My how times have changed! Just look whose nose is up in the air now.
Info update: Toyota has been DE-CONTENTING cars for years to stay competitive. Others, like Hyundai are doing just the opposite. It is the circle of life. Get used to it.
cliffy1. Thanks a lot for giving me Dianne Whitmores e-mail address. I contacted her yesterday and she gave me a very good price on the 2001 Avalon XLS in May I am ging to order one from her. Anyone in the Southern CA area whould be wise to contact her. Sometime ago there was a web site posted on the board where you could order accessories such as mud guards etc.Do you happen to know the address. Thank You
My 97 Avalon is very quiet on smooth surface. But on less than perfect roads or small bumps/cracks, the noise coming in from the bottom of the car creates an echo feel noise in the cabin. It seems getting worse over the years or I'm just getting more sensitive.
Is this common for the Avalon? Or I should fix something?
Does that contradict my "less than 10K less than the Avalon" ?
Also please show me where I can buy running 1993 Hyundai Sonatas ( nowhere near the car the XG300 is ) for $100. I'll buy 50 of them sight unseen from the first fifty you or anyone else can find. What the hell I'll be a sucker and double that to $200 if under 100k miles. Deal ?
Meanwhile from our own Edmunds we can see a private party 1995 Avalon goes for $10676 - dealer $12197. Trade in $9764. Same year Sonata - again MUCH lower class of car and before Hyundai improved reliability - we see 3,199, 4,290, 2545 respectively. Bear in mind the Sonata goes for about $6-7K less than the XG new, which in turn goes for $10K less than the Avalon, and still ends up - whaddya know -well under $10K less than the Avalon itself.
Remember once again this is the Sonata - which should more properly be compared to Camry. Is it worth less when used ? Sure. By the same amount it costs less when new ? Not even close. Now imagine the difference in a car that retails for $7k more than the Sonata new.
In 1999 Hyundai had a net profit of $200 million from their automobile division,one of many companies they own.Some of others they own are steel,petro-chemicals,computers,to name a few.I look at my purchase as an investment,$10,000.00 underAvalon times 10 years @ 9% annually,gives me a nice profit,plus a good feeling knowing my parts aren't made by Delco and other American suppliers. In about 3-4 years you A/C compressor will get real noisey on you Toyotas.Good Luck.
You really need to get a grip. Remember PATCO? I say kick butt, take names and get on with the business of automaking. I am so sick and tired of militant trade unionist thinking they can decide for the company, the nation, hell, the rest of the friggin' world for that matter. Korean union workers have been spoiled rotten by a govt. trying to keep internal peace by insisting on years of concessions to them. Gee! Sound familiar? This is a worldwide economy. Hyundai is a huge conglomerate which is shaping up to take over Daewoo, making it the sole monopoly in Korean autos. You think they are going to let a few strikers get in their way? Please. The Japanese economy has been in the tank for a decade now. The Koreans made their move, internationally, and are sticking to the game plan. First, knock off Nissan, lowest of the big three. They are projected to accomplish this in the U.S. alone within 5-7 years. Don't believe it? Go ask Mazda, Mitsu, Subaru, Isuzu, Suzuki etc. if they are still laughing. I doubt it. So you just keep overpaying for what you like to call a 'necessity' and enjoy the hell out of your ride. I'll be banking my investment earnings from auto savings and still be enjoying the hell out of my ride.
It's been a while since I have looked at this group. It seems like there is a negative tilt over the last few posts. I have to admit that I just bought a Hyundai Santa Fe. It was much cheaper than the Highlander and bigger than the RAV 4. My wife loves it and it has passed the first 1,000 miles with no problems reported. My wife only put 28,000 miles on her last car in 6 years, so size and price mattered. I also own a 2000 Toyota Avalon, which I love. Looks like I have a leg in each camp. Like them both for different reasons, besides, it's kind of hard to pick a fight with myself because I always lose.
I reached my 1 year anniversary of Avalon ownership a couple of weeks ago and have managed to put 21,000 miles on my car. This is the after action report for year one.
About a month ago, I started experiencing a scraping sound from the front tire wheelwell after I had gone through a dip at speed or rolled through a dip entering a highway. This sound didn't happen when I went over rough roads or hit a pothole. I did have a significant rattle in the dash though.
I took the car into the Plano Toyota service department (Plano is a suburb of Dallas, TX) and talked with James Wood. I mention this because I had read some horror stories in these forums relating to Toyota dealers and warranty work. They had the car back that afternoon after replacing the front struts and pulling the dash off. No arguments, no "I don't hear anything" or, "That's the nature of that model." They just fixed it. The lack of argument on the struts leads me to believe that Toyota is aware that the front struts are not up to snuff, because James said something to the effect that they had added heavier duty struts than the originals.
They fixed the rattle in the dash, but not the scraping sound. It wasn't quite as bad, but still there, sounding the worst on the drivers side. Looks like the struts weren't the culprits in this case.
I didn't have time to take the car back for a few weeks. The dash rattle came back and I finally had some time to run it by and give them another crack at it. James went for a ride with me. We picked up on the dash rattle right away, but the scraping sound was much harder to reproduce. We finally found a spot right turning into a parking lot (small dip) that finally showed the problem.
James gave me a brand new loaner (9 miles on the odo) and took the car in. It took three days, but they finally took care of the problems. They even had me come back and take a drive with the quality manager to make sure I was satisfied.
They had taken apart the dash completely and tightened every bolt in there. They also made sure all of the wire harnesses were secure (a couple had not been when they opened it up.) As for the scrape, there seemed to be a plastic liner piece that had loosened up in the wheel well that would scrape the tire under certain conditions. They tightened it up and it seems like the sound is gone. I tested it at a known problem site by my house and it worked just fine, no noise. To top it off, they washed and waxed it:-)
I found James and the whole service department to be pleasant, courteous, informative and honest. They seemed to really care that I was happy with the service. James called me on a fairly regular basis to keep me up to date on progress. He even called me to let me know they hadn't found the problem yet, but were working on it. That's great service and I have to say that they did an outstanding job. Everything you buy has the potential for problems. It's how a company treats you when that problem pops up, that counts.
Thus ends my report. I love the Avalon after a year of ownership. The car has performed as I have expected and the service has been outstanding when needed. The above mentioned problems are the only ones I have had in the first 21,000 miles. I hope they will be the last, but I'm old enought to know better. It's a good feeling to know there is a good dealership backing me up.
I've heard a lot of griping in this forum and just wanted to weigh in with a positive experience I have had.
Toyota has spent a lot of years and a ton of money refining its vehicles and it shows. Every car rating website and publication tells the same story. Toyotas are plain vanilla, but unbeatable when it comes to reliability. Hard data from Consumer reports frequency of service surveys over a score of years tells the same story. So, consumers are willing to pay for that. Hyundai is a Toyota wannabe. Their early entries into the US market showed that they had a long, long way to catch up. Have they caught up? The discounted prices they are selling their vehicles for says no! Have they come far enough to make the gamble worth it? Its your call, but $24,000 is a big albatross. Good luck, but my money stays on Toyota.
Purchased our XL last year for $21,999 which stickered for $27,500. My wife wanted the passat, because it looked younger, but at the price we got it for and the toyota reliablity there was no choice. If your looking for a good deal just open your Sunday paper. Sure, we did not have much choice of color, but saving that much money we did not care (White). We tried the internet, and they quoted a price of $25,500. If you see a good ad, get there before the dealer opens. Have your finacning ready to go and tell them want the car in the ad.
As far as the quality of the car, I would give it a B as of now. Runs great, quiet, but a rattle from the window side over rough pavement. My wife does not noticed it, but it is there. I expect a little more from a toyota. No other problems noted, a good car for the price.
What year Avalon did you get? Not a 2000 for $21,999? Where at, I want one. Was it a demo or used with miles? With a MSRP of $27,500 thats a discount of $5,501. No way would Toyota do that. The best stripper that I saw in the XL trim was $24,999. Did that price include a trade? I bought a Passat. I'm like your wife I wanted a younger look. Besides they are cheaper than the Avalon and are rated the best mid-size car now.
dmallinder: With respect to trade in value I agree with you completely. I kept my old Avalon because the trade in was so low on it. I will run it into the ground. What did strike me as odd, was that the VW guys offered me more $$ for my trade than the Toyota dealers were willing to give me on a new Avalon. I'm talking wholesale value only here. Toyota sales folks are resting on their laurels and are not as hungry as their competitors to make a deal. IMHO.
I didn't buy either car. I can assess their relative merits without personal involvement.
Now I never said the XG300 is as good as the Avalon. It isn't. It isn't as powerful, as spacious and probably isn't as reliable either. But ridiculous posturing about Hyundais ( I don't own one of any kind - my only experience is an old girlfriend who had one for about 30,000 with no trouble at all ) going to the shop every month is just that with no basis in fact. Looking at the much lower level Sonata's reliability reports shows very few problems of moderate expense. Is there a reason to suspect the upgraded XG300 of being worse ?
However is it $10K worse than the Avalon ? It depends. If you have decided to spend $30-35K on a car, can afford that easily and don't have any great need for the $10K then sure what the hell the Avalon's a nicer car. It goes up against some pretty stiff competition in the $30-35K range with the TL and the ES300 and even the smaller MBs and BMWs, but it beats them all in space and rides as well as most if sportiness isn't your thing.
But if you want value for money and you want a roomy, feature laden car that drives very quietly and smoothly, don't care about impressing the neighbors with your brand image, and have either a need or a plane for the $10K then the XG300 is certainly more than 70% of the car the Avalon is, which is the relative cost.
It's amusing that people get so worked up and defensive about their cars that they rely on exaggeration and wild irrelvancies to portray everything else as massively inferior. Hey the Taurus is not as nice as the Avalon too but it's $10K less. Hey your Avalon isn't as good as an E class but it's $10K less. Is it the better buy ? It depends again. If you have $45K to spend on a car and no plans for the extra $10K then sure screw the Avalon and buy the E320. It's just money - not an investment so why not ?
But take away the three pointed star and in ride quality, performance, comfort and luxury there's not a huge difference between the E and the Avlon. Just like there isn't a huge difference between the Avalon and the XG if you take away the Toyota reputation - which as most objective people will admit is somehwt exaggerated given recent decontenting and problems.
For the record I currently own a Mazda 626V6. I chose it over the far more well-marketed and reputed Camry or Accord because it drove better, to my tastes, and offered the 5sp. It's been a flawless vehicle for a couple of years but I am in a position of being able to trade up. I drove quite extensively everything in the $30-$45K range and even yes the Hyundai ( it was at a joint dealership and the salesman said it was comparable despite the price). I agreed with him but I am likely to trade it too soon to take the resale hit and besides I could afford more expensive and hence more capable cars.
The Avalon was up there for me for quite a while. I'm a large chap and I like the room and the comfort. Didn't find the seat uncomfortable or the dash distracting. However this forum and others turned me away from the Avalon because of niggling problems. It's strength to me was that Toyota reliability reputation over better driving cars. However once that is reduced it does not offer the capabilities of its competition again for my purely subjective preferences.
The Lexus ES300 was the chosen one for a while - retaining the reputation while driving more nimbly but I found it rather cramped.
The Benz is overpriced for what it offers and horribly expensive to maintain.
The TL is a great car for feature, drivability, resale value and reliability but I just couldn't get past the cheap interior.
So I ended up stretching the budget and going for the Audi A6 2.7T which I'll be buying this spring. Now you can all try and get me offended and defensive by saying the Avalon can compete with it even though it's much cheaper but guess what ? I don't care. I chose the car that offered most for my tastes and preferences and if you are so insecure about cars comparable to yours then maybe you made the wrong choice.
It was a 2000 Avalon XL for 21,999 (Sticker 27,500). It was a paper ad they had when the car first came out, which adverstised for about a month. I live is so cal, so there is a ton of dealerships out here. Have not seen this ad since, but have seen the car advertised for $23,900 with the same sticker price at toyota of Orange. If you live in the city, check the ads cause one will most likely come out.
Great choice! Rolling sculpture. I'll look for your posts in the A6 Topic.
Also, well said. Insecurity breeds all kinds of problems.
Short story: yesterday I came to one of those road areas where two lanes merge into one... Long uphill line of sight...in front an E320 wagon just putzing along...I pull to the left and nail it with plenty of road to go...Mr. M-B (now D-C) couldn't stand the thought of my Korean car going by so you know the rest...He stayed on my tail to prove his outrage for a mile or so...what a putz! I find more and more that great cars are being driven by people who do not deserve them.
They played some part in convincing me to go that way, but really it was the drive. Audi too suffers somewhat from an outdated reputation of unreliability. I'm sure they actually DO have more complaints than Toyota as a whole but to be honest there is really a very small spread between the most reliable and even the least reliable cars now. Even the lesser Korean brands like beleagured Daewoo are nowhere near as bad as the mainstream cars of 10-15 years ago, which is where most people's quality perceptions are based. Everyone has improved quality, driven to a great degree by companies, like Toyota for sure, who made it such an advantage that something had to be done.
It just takes forever to convince people that quality has improved. Toyota did it 20-15 yrs ago. Jaguar has done it in the last few years. Audi, Hyundai, etc are doing it now.
Call my used car manager. He'll sell you every 8 year old Sonata you want if you have a wholesale license.
My post about resale was not based on what the "books" say, but what I actually see them valued at. There isn't a Hyundai on the planet that will bring even "rough book" unless it is absolutely pristine and very low mileage. The same is not true of older Camry or Avalons.
But I digress. I'm well aware that your just cage rattling right now anyway.
Was it I who passed out ridiculous numbers ? I know you guys make a hell of a profit but if you are buying Hyundais for $100 then you are making about 4000% profit when you sell them.
What cage rattling is to be done comparing similarly appointed and driving cars ?
What cage rattling is to be done by pointing out the complete baselessness of reliability claims ?
Now tell me again what have you done to contradict my statements either original or additional that resale value difference is smaller than original sale difference ?
The premise was an 8 year old Hyundai versus an 8 year old Toyota originally valued at $30K. I correctly pointed out that trade value on an 8 year old Hyundai will be extremely low. The reason is, the car is used up. We wouldn't offer to sell it on our lot at any price. We wholesale it and hope to never see it again. $100 is the value if it runs well enough to make it to our dealership.
No, and I'm sure its a nice car. That wasn't the question I was answering. Don't take my post for anything other than a response to resale values of 8 year old cars.
cliffy1, A Hyundai car which is 8 years old at this time, granted,would be worth little. The value of a 2001 Hyundai XG300 8 years from now may be a different story. I read this car is a serious threat to the popular Honda-Toyota-Nissan etc. models. Some are even touting competition for smaller Lexus and Infinity models. My point? Hyundai Motors has come a long long way since the early models were introduced to our shores and they are becoming serious auto makers with improved products and exceptional warenties.There are road test reviews on several automobile sites that you may find interesting. Thank you for "listening"
I do believe this discussion is about the Avalon -- we have other discussions about all kinds of Hyundai models where a lot of this conversation should be happening....
So maybe we can get back to focusing on the Avalon now and continue the Hyundai conversation in more appropriate places.
Thanks.
Pat Host Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
This discussion group seems to accept all comers and topics. 'Scuse me if I'm straying too far...
I'm working temporarily in Orange County, CA and driving a borrowed car. I need to purchase another Avalon while I'm out here and register it in my native midwestern state. I am constrained to purchase a used Avalon from a private party because a dealership must charge me CA sales tax which I will pay again when I plate the car back home the following week. My home state does not credit for sales tax paid elsewhere.
Avalons dominate the roadways here in CA, but why are there so few non-dealer ads in the LA Times classifieds? Are classified ads too expensive for private parties to list in? Is there another forum where I can locate one?
It is too bad that the forum host feels that this forum is straying too far as we are finally talking about exactly the two vehicles I am considering. I have driven the Avalon extensively and love the power and ride but it is overpriced, it's look is very stoggy, the color selection depressing, it's seats ARE uncomfortable, and any reasonably informed person who would have to agree that Toyota, long regarded as virtually untouchable in terms of quality has probably fallen behind Honda. Is this because they are now made in America, I hope not. Additionally, dealer satisfaction according to data from Consumers Reports surveys is in general a bit low. Conversely any reasonably informed person would have to conclude that Hyundai has dramatically improved quality and the XG300 in a fine car offering excellent value for the money. Reliability and resale are the only real question marks, though important ones. These days, either choice is a gamble. Today I made an offer on an XG and they turned me down. Who knows I may have gotten lucky.
You might want to contact a member of the TH who is a sales person at Carson Toyota. I don't know how many used cars she does, but I know she specializes in cross country sales and may be able to help you buy a car and avoid the CA tax. Her e-mail is dianne@earthlink.net.
Since you are not planning on titling in CA, this shouldn't be such a hard problem to overcome. Taxes are generally assessed when the title is transferred, not when the car is sold.
The Hyundai XG300 is direct competition to the Toyota Avalon. Actually I feel it should be discussed in great detail at this forum. I personally am considering both cars and the decision will not be an easy one. Certainly if our host decides to forbid it ... it will be "end of topic".
The Hyundai may or may not be germane to this discussion, but what isn't is the acrimony certain recent comers have brought to this topic. Perhaps starting a new topic titled "XG300 vs Avalon" would be a more appropriate place.
Yes cliffy, the acrimony is exactly what I was addressing. I see that my post wasn't very clear - I was thinking that the continued and prolonged debate specifically over the resale value of Hyundais was overtaking this conversation and would be better placed in the Hyundai discussions.
A comparison discussion may certainly be started by anyone interested, or we can continue here. We can certainly compare the Avalon to any vehicle of interest in this discussion.
Sorry for my lack of clarity.
Pat Host Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
Comments
However, I did have to replace the front brake pads (at least this is what the man at Pep Boys told me) for the car to pass inspection. I did did this and the front brakes are squeaking now. Is this normal?
Also, not too far after I replaced those brake pads, I accidently hit a curb when I was making a slow left turn to exit a parking lot (the right side wheel went over the small curb).
Since that point, I have been hearing a squeaking noise which I think is coming from the right side wheel area. Furthermore, today I have noticed that the squeaking sound is present when the car is coasting (no braking and no accelerating).
Is it possible that I "damaged" something when I hit this curb, and should I be running to the dealer?
I live in Southern Ca. area (Banning CA) which is the best route to take for a good deal buying on the Internet or going through a dealer. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
Stewart
You may want to make a trip to Southern California. Dianne at Carson Toyota is honest and effecient in getting you a deal on any new Toyota. Southern CA also has a much lower advertising fee. Her e-mail is dianne@earthlink.net
an Avalon until I read this site.I then started
looking elsewhere.Accura,BMW,etc.I saw an ad for Hyundai,looked at them,drove one and bought one.Has
everything Avalon has and then some.Only 12%
American made parts.60,000/5 yr,bumper to bumper
warranty,5 yr Road side/10 yr/100,000 mile,on drive
train.Plus my local dealer covers ALL routine maint.for 24K/24,mos.All this for under $24,000.
Leather,traction con.stanard.plus a 5 speed automatic.
The XG300 DOES offer everything the Avalon does as far as amenities go and actually some more- he's right there. The wood is real for a start. The transmission is a 5sp tiptronic clone. Sunroof, TC etc are standard. The list price difference for a loaded XLS vs loaded XG300L is almost 10K. Unless you've driven one you should not comment but believe me the XG300 is very quiet and well made. Not quite up to the Avalon there but awful close - certainly more so than the price difference.
However where I would definitely back the Avalon is in resale value. If you drive a car for 8 yrs or more then sure you'll sell the Hyundai for less than $10K less than the Avalon - but selling it in a couple or three years will mean taking a big bath. Avalons hold resale value much better in the early years.
But if you drive a car to death ( and remember Hyundai's warranty comes into play here ) the XG300 should be a very reliable and cost effective vehicle offering great comfort and smoothness. It's not silly at all to compare the two unless you're hung up on 7-10yr old reliability ratings that were of dubious impartiality even then.
XG300.
Sscond, if you can sell Hyundai for right under
10K after 8 years, sell them the bridge in NY
and Sears Tower at Chicago once you at it.
Don't care how it drives, don't care if it
flies. Six years ago Hyundai was a piece of junk
(had a roomate who had the smaller one) and it
is now. The 10 year warranty is their last attempt
to make a footprint in the US market. All the
South Korean Auto makers make junk and have whole
bunch of problems with making progit and labor
disputes.
As I said before, the reason I buy a car is to drive it, not to have it services under warranty
for the next 10 years. If Toyota had a BB for a
1 year and Hyundai for 15, I would still buy Toyota.
Explain to me, if you did not buy a Hyundai or the
Avalon what are you doing on this board ? Of course, unless you are the same guy from the original post ...
Please learn to read English before you rant. My comment was that if you held on to the car for a few years then the DIFFERENCE ( that's the "less than" part - it's called a comparison ) between the Avalon and the XG300 would be less than the $10K in original price difference.
So you base your estimation on six year old second hand data ?
That explains a lot.
Notice: To all Avalon owners:
Get used to seeing the Hyundai XG300 wherever you go. You know...the club, the links, the opera. It is not, as reviewers have mistakenly represented, aimed at V-6 Camry and Accord owners. It is aimed squarely at the Avalon, Intrigue, etc. Don't knock it if you haven't driven it. Matter of fact...don't knock ANY car you nothing about. You sound very much like my Uncles of yore who used to laugh at the 'tinny little [non-permissible content removed] cars' while they cruised around in their Buicks, Caddys, etc.
My how times have changed! Just look whose nose is up in the air now.
Info update: Toyota has been DE-CONTENTING cars for years to stay competitive. Others, like Hyundai are doing just the opposite. It is the circle of life. Get used to it.
Thanks a lot for giving me Dianne Whitmores
e-mail address. I contacted her yesterday
and she gave me a very good price on the
2001 Avalon XLS in May I am ging to order
one from her. Anyone in the Southern CA
area whould be wise to contact her.
Sometime ago there was a web site posted
on the board where you could order
accessories such as mud guards etc.Do you
happen to know the address. Thank You
Is this common for the Avalon? Or I should fix something?
Also please show me where I can buy running 1993 Hyundai Sonatas ( nowhere near the car the XG300 is ) for $100. I'll buy 50 of them sight unseen from the first fifty you or anyone else can find. What the hell I'll be a sucker and double that to $200 if under 100k miles. Deal ?
Meanwhile from our own Edmunds we can see a private party 1995 Avalon goes for $10676 - dealer $12197. Trade in $9764. Same year Sonata - again MUCH lower class of car and before Hyundai improved reliability - we see 3,199, 4,290, 2545 respectively. Bear in mind the Sonata goes for about $6-7K less than the XG new, which in turn goes for $10K less than the Avalon, and still ends up - whaddya know -well under $10K less than the Avalon itself.
Remember once again this is the Sonata - which should more properly be compared to Camry. Is it worth less when used ? Sure. By the same amount it costs less when new ? Not even close. Now imagine the difference in a car that retails for $7k more than the Sonata new.
from their automobile division,one of many companies they own.Some of others they own are
steel,petro-chemicals,computers,to name a few.I look at my purchase as an investment,$10,000.00
underAvalon times 10 years @ 9% annually,gives me a
nice profit,plus a good feeling knowing my parts
aren't made by Delco and other American suppliers.
In about 3-4 years you A/C compressor will get real
noisey on you Toyotas.Good Luck.
my car as investment but simply as
a necessity. Money lost. Enjoy the ride.
I don't mind having my AC replaced in 3-4 years,
as your Hunday will likely make 3-4 trips a month
to the dealeship. It does not matter to you since you have 10 year warranty and free donuts.
Here look at :
http://my.netian.com/~gooney/editorial/Huyndai.htm
to see how great Huyindai as a company is --
" ...150000 riot policemen poised to storm the
plant .... inside 5000 workers protesting massive
layoff ..."
And this is the first link I found via google.
Good luck, you really should have kept that Yugo.
Much better investment.
Korean union workers have been spoiled rotten by a govt. trying to keep internal peace by insisting on years of concessions to them. Gee! Sound familiar?
This is a worldwide economy. Hyundai is a huge conglomerate which is shaping up to take over Daewoo, making it the sole monopoly in Korean autos. You think they are going to let a few strikers get in their way? Please.
The Japanese economy has been in the tank for a decade now. The Koreans made their move, internationally, and are sticking to the game plan.
First, knock off Nissan, lowest of the big three. They are projected to accomplish this in the U.S. alone within 5-7 years. Don't believe it? Go ask Mazda, Mitsu, Subaru, Isuzu, Suzuki etc. if they are still laughing. I doubt it.
So you just keep overpaying for what you like to call a 'necessity' and enjoy the hell out of your ride.
I'll be banking my investment earnings from auto savings and still be enjoying the hell out of my ride.
I reached my 1 year anniversary of Avalon ownership a couple of weeks ago and have managed to put 21,000 miles on my car. This is the after action report for year one.
About a month ago, I started experiencing a scraping sound from the front tire wheelwell after I had gone through a dip at speed or rolled through a dip entering a highway. This sound didn't happen when I went over rough roads or hit a pothole. I did have a significant rattle in the dash though.
I took the car into the Plano Toyota service department (Plano is a suburb of Dallas, TX) and talked with James Wood. I mention this because I had read some horror stories in these forums relating to Toyota dealers and warranty work. They had the car back that afternoon after replacing the front struts and pulling the dash off. No arguments, no "I don't hear anything" or, "That's the nature of that model." They just fixed it. The lack of argument on the struts leads me to believe that Toyota is aware that the front struts are not up to snuff, because James said something to the effect that they had added heavier duty struts than the originals.
They fixed the rattle in the dash, but not the scraping sound. It wasn't quite as bad, but still there, sounding the worst on the drivers side. Looks like the struts weren't the culprits in this case.
I didn't have time to take the car back for a few weeks. The dash rattle came back and I finally had some time to run it by and give them another crack at it. James went for a ride with me. We picked up on the dash rattle right away, but the scraping sound was much harder to reproduce. We finally found a spot right turning into a parking lot (small dip) that finally showed the problem.
James gave me a brand new loaner (9 miles on the odo) and took the car in. It took three days, but they finally took care of the problems. They even had me come back and take a drive with the quality manager to make sure I was satisfied.
They had taken apart the dash completely and tightened every bolt in there. They also made sure all of the wire harnesses were secure (a couple had not been when they opened it up.) As for the scrape, there seemed to be a plastic liner piece that had loosened up in the wheel well that would scrape the tire under certain conditions. They tightened it up and it seems like the sound is gone. I tested it at a known problem site by my house and it worked just fine, no noise. To top it off, they washed and waxed it:-)
I found James and the whole service department to be pleasant, courteous, informative and honest. They seemed to really care that I was happy with the service. James called me on a fairly regular basis to keep me up to date on progress. He even called me to let me know they hadn't found the problem yet, but were working on it. That's great service and I have to say that they did an outstanding job. Everything you buy has the potential for problems. It's how a company treats you when that problem pops up, that counts.
Thus ends my report. I love the Avalon after a year of ownership. The car has performed as I have expected and the service has been outstanding when needed. The above mentioned problems are the only ones I have had in the first 21,000 miles. I hope they will be the last, but I'm old enought to know better. It's a good feeling to know there is a good dealership backing me up.
I've heard a lot of griping in this forum and just wanted to weigh in with a positive experience I have had.
Hyundai is a Toyota wannabe. Their early entries into the US market showed that they had a long, long way to catch up. Have they caught up? The discounted prices they are selling their vehicles for says no! Have they come far enough to make the gamble worth it? Its your call, but $24,000 is a big albatross. Good luck, but my money stays on Toyota.
As far as the quality of the car, I would give it a B as of now. Runs great, quiet, but a rattle from the window side over rough pavement. My wife does not noticed it, but it is there. I expect a little more from a toyota. No other problems noted, a good car for the price.
dmallinder: With respect to trade in value I agree with you completely. I kept my old Avalon because the trade in was so low on it. I will run it into the ground. What did strike me as odd, was that the VW guys offered me more $$ for my trade than the Toyota dealers were willing to give me on a new Avalon. I'm talking wholesale value only here.
Toyota sales folks are resting on their laurels and are not as hungry as their competitors to make a deal. IMHO.
Now I never said the XG300 is as good as the Avalon. It isn't. It isn't as powerful, as spacious and probably isn't as reliable either. But ridiculous posturing about Hyundais ( I don't own one of any kind - my only experience is an old girlfriend who had one for about 30,000 with no trouble at all ) going to the shop every month is just that with no basis in fact. Looking at the much lower level Sonata's reliability reports shows very few problems of moderate expense. Is there a reason to suspect the upgraded XG300 of being worse ?
However is it $10K worse than the Avalon ? It depends. If you have decided to spend $30-35K on a car, can afford that easily and don't have any great need for the $10K then sure what the hell the Avalon's a nicer car. It goes up against some pretty stiff competition in the $30-35K range with the TL and the ES300 and even the smaller MBs and BMWs, but it beats them all in space and rides as well as most if sportiness isn't your thing.
But if you want value for money and you want a roomy, feature laden car that drives very quietly and smoothly, don't care about impressing the neighbors with your brand image, and have either a need or a plane for the $10K then the XG300 is certainly more than 70% of the car the Avalon is, which is the relative cost.
It's amusing that people get so worked up and defensive about their cars that they rely on exaggeration and wild irrelvancies to portray everything else as massively inferior. Hey the Taurus is not as nice as the Avalon too but it's $10K less. Hey your Avalon isn't as good as an E class but it's $10K less. Is it the better buy ? It depends again. If you have $45K to spend on a car and no plans for the extra $10K then sure screw the Avalon and buy the E320. It's just money - not an investment so why not ?
But take away the three pointed star and in ride quality, performance, comfort and luxury there's not a huge difference between the E and the Avlon. Just like there isn't a huge difference between the Avalon and the XG if you take away the Toyota reputation - which as most objective people will admit is somehwt exaggerated given recent decontenting and problems.
For the record I currently own a Mazda 626V6. I chose it over the far more well-marketed and reputed Camry or Accord because it drove better, to my tastes, and offered the 5sp. It's been a flawless vehicle for a couple of years but I am in a position of being able to trade up. I drove quite extensively everything in the $30-$45K range and even yes the Hyundai ( it was at a joint dealership and the salesman said it was comparable despite the price). I agreed with him but I am likely to trade it too soon to take the resale hit and besides I could afford more expensive and hence more capable cars.
The Avalon was up there for me for quite a while. I'm a large chap and I like the room and the comfort. Didn't find the seat uncomfortable or the dash distracting. However this forum and others turned me away from the Avalon because of niggling problems. It's strength to me was that Toyota reliability reputation over better driving cars. However once that is reduced it does not offer the capabilities of its competition again for my purely subjective preferences.
The Lexus ES300 was the chosen one for a while - retaining the reputation while driving more nimbly but I found it rather cramped.
The Benz is overpriced for what it offers and horribly expensive to maintain.
The TL is a great car for feature, drivability, resale value and reliability but I just couldn't get past the cheap interior.
So I ended up stretching the budget and going for the Audi A6 2.7T which I'll be buying this spring. Now you can all try and get me offended and defensive by saying the Avalon can compete with it even though it's much cheaper but guess what ? I don't care. I chose the car that offered most for my tastes and preferences and if you are so insecure about cars comparable to yours then maybe you made the wrong choice.
Also, well said. Insecurity breeds all kinds of problems.
Short story: yesterday I came to one of those road areas where two lanes merge into one... Long uphill line of sight...in front an E320 wagon just putzing along...I pull to the left and nail it with plenty of road to go...Mr. M-B (now D-C) couldn't stand the thought of my Korean car going by so you know the rest...He stayed on my tail to prove his outrage for a mile or so...what a putz!
I find more and more that great cars are being driven by people who do not deserve them.
It just takes forever to convince people that quality has improved. Toyota did it 20-15 yrs ago. Jaguar has done it in the last few years. Audi, Hyundai, etc are doing it now.
My post about resale was not based on what the "books" say, but what I actually see them valued at. There isn't a Hyundai on the planet that will bring even "rough book" unless it is absolutely pristine and very low mileage. The same is not true of older Camry or Avalons.
But I digress. I'm well aware that your just cage rattling right now anyway.
What cage rattling is to be done comparing similarly appointed and driving cars ?
What cage rattling is to be done by pointing out the complete baselessness of reliability claims ?
Now tell me again what have you done to contradict my statements either original or additional that resale value difference is smaller than original sale difference ?
Oh, never mind.
So maybe we can get back to focusing on the Avalon now and continue the Hyundai conversation in more appropriate places.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
the Avalon is overpriced, Toyota quality is declining but all is well in Wonderland so everyone can go to sleep. Geesh! Get a Life.
I'm working temporarily in Orange County, CA and driving a borrowed car. I need to purchase another Avalon while I'm out here and register it in my native midwestern state. I am constrained to purchase a used Avalon from a private party because a dealership must charge me CA sales tax which I will pay again when I plate the car back home the following week. My home state does not credit for sales tax paid elsewhere.
Avalons dominate the roadways here in CA, but why are there so few non-dealer ads in the LA Times classifieds? Are classified ads too expensive for private parties to list in? Is there another forum where I can locate one?
Since you are not planning on titling in CA, this shouldn't be such a hard problem to overcome. Taxes are generally assessed when the title is transferred, not when the car is sold.
A comparison discussion may certainly be started by anyone interested, or we can continue here. We can certainly compare the Avalon to any vehicle of interest in this discussion.
Sorry for my lack of clarity.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards