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Beside making the back of the car look better IMHO you will see people are willing to work a little harder to figure out what kind of car it is.
Y'all can laugh at me if you like, but I'm seriously considering debadging it. The "L"s have to go at least. The "lexus" and "IS300" aren't nearly as glaring, but I may need to ditch them as well.
"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges..."
On the flipside, I liked the tight packaging, the angular lines, the muscular stance, the style of the 17" wheels and the way they fill up the wheel well, the plethora of standard features...
Of course everything you read in a magazine has to be taken with a grain of salt (that's not a BMW). I had to go for a test drive. I stopped by the Lexus dealer on the way back to my Saab (an ultra-reliable car itself) dealer to pick up my car from being serviced. Even though I had quite some time before the end of my lease, I Bull Salted with the sales guy and he let me take a test drive. The car I drove had the beige colored interior (I only buy cars with Black insides) which I didn't like and thought the leather/escaine combo was somewhat cheap (especially compared to the thick leather in my Saab). I immediately noticed there was no armrest (one of those things for me) and that the E-shift was kinda gimmicky (I tried it out, then left the car in D). I also thought the car was a little cramped on the inside. I was not in favor of the seats that don't fold down.
I liked the power and smoothness of the Inline 6 (possibly my favorite engine configuration), the tight steering, and the way the car seemed to dart from lane to lane. I was impressed with the handling too.
I liked the improvements for '02 including an armrest (though sorry none for you sportcross drivers), tinted taillights, the availability of a 5-speed manual, the tighter suspension that comes along with the stick, and the full leather option.
I ended up not getting a 325Ci or IS300 because I came across (in May 2002) a 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH that was brand new and sitting on a dealer's lot. This is a car I've always wanted since its inception and I got it and love it.
I was checking out car dealers the other day and stumbled into a Lexus dealer to try and find out some more info on the RX330 (my father needs a new truck in a few months). They didn't have any, but there was a gorgeous, Absolutely Red IS300 5 speed in the showroom with Black leather interior. I didn't drive the car, but sitting in it felt better than in the one I had test driven nearly 2 years ago. I was comfortable. The interior space seemed less confining (I'm used to my Prelude). There even seemed to be decent room for people to sit behind me, but it is rarely anymore than just my girlfriend and I in the car. The stick seemed like it just sniks into place and the clutch travel seemed close to that of my Prelude (remember this is all in the showroom). I liked the lip spoiler.
While I'm not in the market for a new car right now (probably won't be until 2007 or 2008), I would definitely put the IS300 (maybe coupe or possibly Supra platform Twin?) on top of my shopping list. It provides a certain bang for the buck when you compare it to the 3 series (which I love). I don't see too many IS300s on the road here in NYC. I know that it may not perform as well as the G35 or the 330Ci, but as long as I can enjoy driving it, that's all I care about. I like the Lexus reliability to top it off too.
A few questions and then I'll end my long post. How were sales of the IS300 for 2002 compared to 2001? What percentage of the cars sold were 5 speeds?
Sorry for the long post.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Something else to think about: I am surprised M-B came out with the C230 Sports Coupe, considering their countrymen BMW couldn't make it with the 318 here in the US.
Thanx,
sdiori
NYC: I don't know where to find '02 end of year stats, but 01/03 is down: approx. 950 units v. 1200 LY. Both GS models are down as well.
I have no idea what percentage is being done in manual. I will say I have never had difficulty finding the 5M on the lot, though color choices here on the Best Coast seem limited.
BTW, I've got armrests, front and back! Got me some fold-down seat action to! Got me a mini Home Depot hauler!
I love the SportCross. I love the flexibility, the slightly better weight distribution, the slightly faster slalom times, the looks from people who can't figure out what it is and the fact that my kids love it! But for someone who lives for manuals, no way this would work!
With so many rumors flying around over next gen modifications, I wonder if there aren't more than a few fence-sitters out there. I also wonder if the near complete lack of advertising and the economy in general are slowing things down a bit. I notice LS sales are up but LX are down. RX are down but I think that has more to do with anticipation than anything else.
I sure hope there's a SportCross available in three years when I turn this baby back in. Otherwise there might yet be a 3er wagon in my future.
Exactly, it's amazing how many people don't pay enough attention to that and base their buying decisions based on a bunch of numbers they read in a magazine.
Figure in all my discounts including multi-car and multi-coverage, and then figure what it might be for a 20 year-old male.
Ouch. I'd tell your friend the car's a winner but his son should foot the bill!
Example: I am a single male, live in Baltimore city (MD), am 24, have one speeding point, 50/100/50 coverage w/200 comp/500 collision deductible, multi-line discount (house & car), and have an 02 VW Jetta 1.8turbo which I drive 30 miles one way daily to work. My insurance is $233.16 a month, and that's WITH an accident free discount (3 years, no accidents). This is with State Farm. I have been told on my 25th birthday (this June, finally!), my insurance premium will drop about 40%.
The highest quote I ever got for insurance was $501 monthly, but I can't remember the company.
Again, I hope the IS300 continues to sell so that they do make another generation of it. Part of what's keeping it around is that Toyota already had the platform, most of the body (I'm not sure if it is a rebadged Altezza or are there some different panels?), and the engine were already developed. Most of their expenses involved marketing. The next generation will hopefully spawn a coupe, sportcross, sedan, altezza, and supra with various engine choices (no V8 please) making the 3.0L I-6 the base engine. So there's always hope.
wale_bate & dgraves: I'm sure there are more IS300s on the left coast. Most of the ones I see here (on Long Island & In New jersey) have the 16" wheels w/ all season tires. I see now Lexus offers all seasons with the 17s in the NY area.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
There aren't that many driving around locally, but within two blocks here at home, there are three sedans and my SportCross. I haven't seen another SportCross here before today. Pulled into the Orchard Supply lot and there was an identical twin to mine. Personalized plates: "LEXUS37", whatever that means.
I'm with you NYC, I think an 8 would defeat the best purpose of the car. The other rumor I hate is the 3.3 V6.
Paul: Yup, my front passenger seat folds down and has a hard vinyl back.
Forget a V8 being overkill in the city (believe me, I'd take a 540i or an M5 as my daily driver in a heartbeat), but it is overkill for a car this size. One would think it would totally throw off the balance. Although Audi engineers managed to make a 4.2L V8 weigh the same as a Bi-Turbo V6 so anything is possible.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I guess if I got one, I could get some nice 19 inch aftermaket wheels and a Greddy exhaust with a nice 4.5 inch tip.
zone: I made inquiries as to weight differences between the wheels, thinking that if the new wheels were significantly lighter, I would forego any semblence of style and take them anyway. The parts guy said there wasn't any real difference, but he was headed off to lunch at the time, and I much prefer the five-spoke anyway.
If somebody were to uncover a couple pounds difference, it might make the 11-spokers much more attractive. Might.
Far as I can tell from the pics (Like Don, I don't remember from the lot myself), the exhaust tip is just a chrome tip either welded (likely) or bolted over the tailpipe. As Don points out, not likely to cause you problems ever.
"Lexus also plans to broaden its entry level lineup when it unveils the successor to the IS300 in Mid-2004. To make it more competitive with BMW's 3-series range, Lexus will offer a variety of engines in the next-generation IS, including a larger, more powerful in-line six and possibly a V-8.
The car will also get four-wheel-drive capability, enabling Lexus to market a wagon-like crossover off the IS platform to replace the slow-selling SportCross model. Other body styles in the 2006 IS range likely will include a coupe and a convertible."
The good news is the 3.3L V6 won't get anywhere near the IS. A larger I6 with additional power would be welcome (although I think the current 3.0 would make a great base engine). The more I think about it, the less opposed to a V8 I am. Like I said before, If Audi can make a V8 weigh in as much as a Bi-Turbo V6, then I'm sure Lexus engineers can match wits with Audi.
Definitely good news and a step in the right direction. The bad news is that Lexus seems to be pretty hush, hush with specs on new models until their release.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Later...AH
Later...AH
OTOH, I'd hate to be you for the next month!
Still struggling with financial priorities and my own personal issues of what I should be prioritizing in a sedan. There's a part of me that says I already have sports car to satisfy my need for something fun to drive and no sedan will ever match that, so maybe I should just go for a big, comfortable car for my sedan. The wife and kids would probably like that better. Well, all except the 12 year old who assumes that whatever I buy will be what he gets to drive in 4 years. That, in itself, may be a good reason to get something boring to drive. Speaking of which, 2003 Maximas are going really, really cheap.
Low blow!
Man, what a difference: ES feels incredibly poorly
assembled, steering feels sloppy, even the ride is uncertain and floaty. OK, it is a loaner, so people drive them like SUV's but still...I was amazed how buttoned down and controlled IS feels compared to the ES. And, of course, the FWD vs RWD plays a huge role. Anyhow, once you go IS, you never want to go back...
About Maxima's: the new model is out but it is also plagued with tremendous amount of torque steer (Car & Driver). The good part: the rigit axle rear suspension is gone, since the new platform is based on Altima. I test drove Altima once (3.5/5-speed): man, what a fiasco: feels strong but totally uncontrollable and poorly assembled. And I used to be a Nissan fan.
Your IS has a distinctly different mission. It's supposed to get young buyers into the Toyota fold before BMW or Audi gets their claws into them!
When I priced out 325it and my SportCross, the sticker difference was closer to $4.5K, comparably equipped. Still that's better than 12%; nothing to sneeze at. An A4 Avant 3.0 quattro wasn't a whole lot more economical.
But price was a lesser of all considerations for me. It was icing, not cake. The IS had the handling, ride, comforts, size and performance I wanted, and I preferred the styling to the current 325it, though not to the A4. The A4 is AWD, which was not the preferred set up for me.
The Lexus name conveys little to me personally. If they had imported this as the Altezza with the same amenities, I believe I would have been just as tempted. Only the typical hard-core Bay Area Toyota brick and mortar shop experience would have turned me off!
What struck me was the fact that it was an oversized Accord: all parts seem to be from an Accord parts bin. The 260 hp is nice but FWD? The car had a very nervous ride, the 6-speed was notchy. Oh, it also had a "tasteful" titanium applicue on the dash: the ugliest thing you can imagine. One nice thing is that you could have it for $28,500 (no nav). Good value, but the result is really worse than the sum of its parts.
walebate: thanks for congrats - your comments have really "steered" me towards this car! Thanks for sharing! I look forward to being in "car heaven". I already bought 6 CDs - unopen - waiting for the big day!! Will post a new message & let you know how beautiful the skies are!
dgraves1: thanks too for the congrats! If you have not seen the Thundercloud Metallic in the flesh - GO! Its awesome! I first saw it on the web & I only thought "hmmmmm". I am usually a big fan of the color White. I tried to request for the 5 spoke wheels but "no go". I actually like the 12 spoke now. Funny, how it grows on ya! Maybe I'll be crabbing to you guys when I'm cleaning the 12 spokes! Ha! ha!
Laugh time people: Forgot to tell you that I only have had 2 cars in my lifetime! The car that I currently drive is a 1988 Toyota Tercel - 2 door - used model purchased from Budget! I can't remember what the mileage was (low) but now its 186,000+, leaking oil & brakes slightly noisy. Car #2 - NEW! still in production in Japan! How's that for upgrading? Pretty radical yeah?
...but moving up from Tercel. Seems like you skipped a step there. Are you sure you don't want to start with a Camry
I bet you can't wait
I, OTOH, am just plain weak, I've determined. I can't stay away from new cars! Heck, the smell is enough to offset the 20% loss on day one for me!
You're gonna have a BLAST zone. And it doesn't wear off real quick either!
I suspect most cars are pretty trouble free for the first 3 years. It's after 3 years that the reliability starts really showing through. If I changed cars more frequently as you do, I probably wouldn't even pay attention to reliability.
True enough I suppose. The way folks talk about Chrysler, though, you'd think the things would never be able to drive off the lot in the first place.
Only car I've kept any length of time other than the Olds (300K+ miles) was my Stratus which gave some minor glitches at six years and around 76K miles.
Ah well, all water under the bridge! Think I'll go driving tonight!!!
The initial miles are the most critical, since the brand-new engine, transmission and other sub-components are learning to talk to one another, for the first time.
Later...AH
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The tech asked, with great seriousness, if there was anything I'd like to change about the car. I responded that the torque converter is more intrusive than any automatic I've ever driven, and that I'd like it firmed up a bit. He said they get that a lot on e-shift models.
Maybe they'll have a SMG next go 'round?
How do you feel the torque converter?
I have no beefs yet about my Sport Cross. I also have the moonroof squeak. I have heard they insulate beneath the black trim surround on the glass panel. I had mine in once and its better, but still there and that has been through a variety of temperatures. (Cold ones). Snow Tires come off next week!! YAY.